Thoughts/advice regarding cheapies ?

[faramir]

I've owned exactly two pairs of binocs in my life - old 8x30 that I inherited and new Swarovskis that I recieved as a present so i'm hardly in position to offer any sound advice to neighbor's kid who got hooked on binoculars (boy scouts) too. Things is, he's on limited budget, something along the lines of 30 euros ($40) of his accumulated allowance. When I was checking the local stores to suggest something all decent-looking binoculars were in 100+ euro range (Nikon Action VII seems like a good choice in that price range - any comments on that one ?); everything in 30 euros price range is made by companies I never even heard of. Another thing is kid is vision impaired so he'd like 10x magnification instead of 7x/8x. I imagine 10x power would also imply 50 mm objective lens. He plans to use them for hiking, as in looking at still distant objects, not for birding. Seeing how people say that porros usually offer better quality at same price than roofs; especially cheapo roofs I imagine) the choice would be 10x50 porros then, I just couldn't tellhim anything about the various brands and models out there.

We then checked eBay for second hand gear and after eliminating all the super-duper night-vision-with-free-compass ruby-iridium-coating military-style-camouflaged and whatnot and after subtracting the likely shipping cost (10 or so euros) everything we ended up with was either allegedly "as new" Tasco stuff and stuff made by odd-sounding companies like Seben and Luxon that I have never read about in reviews, or older Bushnells or Bressers or something along these lines.

So the other thread in this forum (about chinese plants chumming out same binoculars under various brand names) for me thinking: are there any reasonably decent binoculars out there avaliable with such a limited budget, perhaps a less-known ("OEM" in computer world) brand of same binoculars ? "Reasonably decent" as in not plastic and not likely to fall apart right away, something he can use for a while.

Would he be better off with one of the compact models instead (of some decent brand, compacts are usually significantly cheaper than heavier models with bigger bjective lens diameter) ? With 10x magnification I figured objective lens should be 50 mm to make them usable in dawn/dusk condition (incidentally this also seems to be a very common combination with allthe makers), but what good is big objective with lower quality glass and coating which allows less light to pass through than higher quality brand compacts with better glass and coating might ?

Knives are another thing a boyscout needs and with knives it's possible to find real quality stuff for reasonable price - certain (admittedly few gems, such as KaBar Dozier folders or swedish Mora fixedblades) $20-30 knives will perform just as well as any $80 and most $100+ equivalents. There's nothing like that in optics I suppose but hopefully there is a decent compromise out there, awaiting to be discovered by the masses. I'm far more knowledgeable about knives thanI am about binocs so I'm happy he got a decent piece of gear there as a result of my suggestion.

So ... what to pick - these would all fit exactly into target price range (with shipping for eBay items):

Used better brand compacts or used Breser 10x50 porros or something along these lines, purchased online, without inspection - any models to specifically look for or avoid in this case ?
Brand new Tasco / Meade / Seben / Luxon 10x50 cheapies purchased online without inspection - at least these manufacturers dare to slap their name on their wares, unlike those super-duper "military" no-name sellers;
or one of the 10x50 cheapies found locally (they cost more than Tascos but unlike eBay merchandise they can be tested on spot, and again, even though the name doesn't mean a thing to me they at least have the nuts to put it on their product) ?

Beggars (and kids) can't be choosers but going under 10x really isn't an option, he wants higher magnification than that of my SLC 8x50 :eek!: Anything beyond 10x must be hard to hold steady I imagine and would have lower aperture diameter so 10x it is I told him. Unfortunately quality binoculars are relatively expensive over here in Europe compared to the US (where most stores offer free shpping and 30+% lower prices :h?: ) but at least the situation is improving gradually; back when I was a kid I couldn't even dream about owning a pair of real binoculars. Kids today can at least afford something. In a while he'll hopefully be able to afford Nikon/Pentax/Minolta in 100-150 euro price range.

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

The only thing I've ever tried under $75 that is any good at all is the 10x42 roof prism waterproof model made by Rugged Exposure/Barska. These are very good for the price (approx. $60), and very close performance-wise to most mid-range $200-$300 models.

Best wishes,
Bawko

[alan_rymer]

If these 10x50 waterproof Porro's are anywhere nears as good as the 10x42 I got ( not sold any more ) then they are a bargain.: £28.99 UKP
http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=90467

[faramir]

7dayshop will only ship to British Isles it seems, not continental Europe alas. Anyother suggestions/clues ? Since this seems to be rarely discussed any input is extremely valuable.

[Tero]

Suggest you try a local camera stores. They often have store brands. These are not big names, but some are useable. Sports stores also have some cheaper models. There are in fact some brands that are useable. Some binoculars at Lidl for instance do not work at all. 8x and 7x work out best for cheapos, as 10x is mostly unclear and just a small clear area in the middle of the field.

I prefer 10x myself, but not cheap ones. There is no problem holding them steady for at least a good part of the binocular users.

8,5 is not availble in your price range and 9x are rare. One Nikon available in 9x.

[elkcub]

What you are asking for is extremely difficult to find. My suggestion would be to follow Bawko's exact suggestion and get a Barska 10x42. I don't own them, but I was impressed looking through a pair several months ago. I don't know if Cabela's will mail to Europe, but you might try.

Enjoy the view whatever you do,
Elkcub

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0022060711806a&navAction=push&navCount=2&indexId=cat20752&podId=0022060&catalogCode=QS&parentId=cat20752&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fitem-link.jhtml.1_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=truevery

[yorkio]

I don't know whereabouts in Europe you are, but Lidl here in the UK have a great deal on Meade 10 x 42 bins with a five year guarantee for £14.99 right now. OK, so they're not Swarowskis but they're actually pretty good and really remarkably good for the money. I heard about them from a post in uk.rec.birdwatching a few days ago and since then it seems like half the group have bought a pair (or in many cases, mine included, two).

I don't know whether there's a Lidl anywhere near where you live, but it seems to be a Europe-wide offer. I see they're €19.99 in the French stores, for example: http://www.lidl.fr/fr/index.nsf/pages/c.o.oow.20050428.p.Jumelles

I suspect it'll be a time limited offer though, so if you're interested I wouldn't hang about.

[Tero]

Check out the Meades in person. I believe my 8x Meades turned out ot be 10x.

[faramir]

No Lidl's anywhere neraby yet alas, but somebody was kind enough to offer to help with purchase and shipping to get that pair of Meade 10x50s. At 15 pounds+ shipping they're still a great bargain I believe and they fit the target budget perfectly. I just hope this fellow's local store hasn't ran out of stock just yet, otherwise I'll have to find somebody else willing to purchase and ship them over here.

As for the uality, I told the kid he cannot expect miracles at entry price point but from what I read about these Meade binoculars they are still decent stuff for beginner. I'll be sticking with my Swarovski SLCs though :bounce: ;)

[grbrown]

I had an experience a few years ago that may help. I visited an optics supplier, to buy a scope, who had excellent views from a viewing gallery. I was joined by two widows who had recently become friends and one wanted binoculars like the other one had, to start bird watching.

I spent ages with these ladies going through the cheapest (8x30) binoculars in the shop, about a dozen pairs in all, trying to make sense of them. I came to realise that they varied dramatically. Eventually one pair stood out and I recommended them. They were far superior to her friend's!

So the things to look for include the following:

- Size of image: a few bins are like looking down long tubes, while others are like looking out of a window - the edge of the image is at the edge of your eyes' field of view - reject the tubes.
- Look at a nearby pair of posts or door frame: some bins will suffer from 'barrelling' more than others (they all do it), but the better ones will do it less.
- Look into the distance, especially at a green field: some bins make grass look much greener than others do, but can you see small items like feeding birds, or small rocks - the clearer bins may not look the most green.
- Look at distant things on the horizon: can you see a rainbow around sharp edges, like a building - reject them!
- If you have any left over just keep passing between them, looking at as wide a variety of things and distances as you can and eventually one of them will seem the best. You may even be surprised, as I was!

The ones I recommended were Zeiss Jena now marketted, I believe, as Docter.

Power is not very important in cheap bins. You may find that a carefully chosen pair of 8x are better to look through than a pair of 10x. And 8x are also likely to offer a better variety of choice, if my experience was anything to go by.

Hope that helps.

Graham. :h?: