When were phase correcting coating introduced?

[Robert Ellis]

Just exactly when did the big four start applying phase correction? I often bargain hunt at camera shops and pawn shops for good used bin deals. I have always wanted to know when the cut off dates for the top-range models from Leica, Nikon, Swaro, and Zeiss were. Even estimates are more than I have.

[niklasjonsson]

Hello!I think Carl Zeiss invented phase-correction back in the 1930-ies.They have an incredibly history of optical inventions and quality.On the internet you can find much reading about Carl Zeiss,Abbe König and Dr Schott.

[chartwell99]

Just exactly when did the big four start applying phase correction? I often bargain hunt at camera shops and pawn shops for good used bin deals. I have always wanted to know when the cut off dates for the top-range models from Leica, Nikon, Swaro, and Zeiss were. Even estimates are more than I have.

Zeiss introduced phase coating for most of their roof glasses in 1988. The hold outs initially were the pocket binoculars (for cost reasons) and the 8 x 30 Olive rubber armored individual focus glasses (considered unnecessary given presumed intended hunting/military only use of the binoculars). None of the Leitz bins were ever phase coated, although after the reoganization of the Company into Leica Camera GmbH in 1990, the BA series bins (then called Trinovid Ultras) were phase coated. I assume, but don't know with certainty, that the Swarovski SLC models were phase coated from the get go. The Bausch & Lomb Elites, then far superior to any roof glasses made by Nikon including the high end Classic Eagle, were not phase coated until 1996. The first Nikon phase coated bins were the Venturer LX/HG series glasses. Hope that helps. Tom

[henry link]

Tom,

The very first Swarovski 8X30 and 7X30 SLC's introduced about 1987 were not phase coated. 2 or 3 years later a mark II version with phase coating appeared and could be distinguished from the mark I by the flat glass cover plates in front of the moving objectives that added waterproofing. The old B&L Elite was was phase coated sometime in 1992. I have the fall 1991 issue of "American Birds" with a B&L ad that doesn't mention phase coating. The summer 1992 issue has an ad claiming that "new PC-3 Phase Correction coating provides an incredible 30% increase in resolution and clarity" in the Elite. It's probably going to be harder to figure out when phase correction was finally applied to various less expensive models.

Henry

[chartwell99]

Tom,

The very first Swarovski 8X30 and 7X30 SLC's introduced about 1987 were not phase coated. 2 or 3 years later a mark II version with phase coating appeared and could be distinguished from the mark I by the flat glass cover plates in front of the moving objectives that added waterproofing. The old B&L Elite was was phase coated sometime in 1992. I have the fall 1991 issue of "American Birds" with a B&L ad that doesn't mention phase coating. The summer 1992 issue has an ad claiming that "new PC-3 Phase Correction coating provides an incredible 30% increase in resolution and clarity" in the Elite. It's probably going to be harder to figure out when phase correction was finally applied to various less expensive models.

Henry

Henry - Thanks for the correction. I hadn't realized B & L introduced phase coating that early (although the B & L ad copy claim of a 30% increase in resolution and clarity was, if anything, an understatement IMHO). I know many, especially Forum contributors, are great fans of Swarovski glasses, but I have always been just a bit disappointed, especially given the never-discounted premium prices.

[elkcub]

... I know many, especially Forum contributors, are great fans of Swarovski glasses, but I have always been just a bit disappointed, especially given the never-discounted premium prices.

Tom,

Disappointed in...? Have Leica or Zeiss ever discounted their premium prices? I may have missed it. Just curious. :)

-elk

[chartwell99]

Tom,

Disappointed in...? Have Leica or Zeiss ever discounted their premium prices? I may have missed it. Just curious. :)

-elk

Elk - Zeiss and Leica have always been discounted by the big NYC camera shops, both USA imports and grey market, although the current sorry state of the US dollar vs. the Euro has changed that dynamic for the moment. Swarovski glasses in my experience were never discounted.

[Wehr]

Henry - Thanks for the correction. I hadn't realized B & L introduced phase coating that early (although the B & L ad copy claim of a 30% increase in resolution and clarity was, if anything, an understatement IMHO). I know many, especially Forum contributors, are great fans of Swarovski glasses, but I have always been just a bit disappointed, especially given the never-discounted premium prices.


Roof prisms without phase coating show two negativ effects: elliptical polarizing and interference.

1. Elliptical polarizing is evidently not visible by using the bins but stresses your eyes and your brain seriously by forcing eyes to make funny "rolling" movements.

Phase coating, if it is done well, minimizes this polarizing nearly to the level of a porro prism. And this is the main benefit.

2. The visible effect of phase coating in respect of interference (clarity and resolution) is highly overestimated and mainly a marketing gag. If a company claims an increase of clarity and resolution by 30% only with phase coating - they must have produced scrab before.

I recollect an internal investigation from Zeiss dealing with overall optical quality of porros and roofs. Speaking of a 100% porro, it is possible to built a 97% roof without phase coating. To be honest this difference of 3% is of course visible, but far away from 30%. May be these 3% increase in real world bins a little bit.
Proper phase coating of roofs makes porros and roofs performing equally.

Regards
Walter

[Pileatus]

Just exactly when did the big four start applying phase correction? I often bargain hunt at camera shops and pawn shops for good used bin deals. I have always wanted to know when the cut off dates for the top-range models from Leica, Nikon, Swaro, and Zeiss were. Even estimates are more than I have.


Robert,

This might answer your question:
http://www.smecc.org/ziess.htm

John

[elkcub]

Elk - Zeiss and Leica have always been discounted by the big NYC camera shops, both USA imports and grey market, although the current sorry state of the US dollar vs. the Euro has changed that dynamic for the moment. Swarovski glasses in my experience were never discounted.

Tom,

If you mean discounted from the advertised MSRP, EO and Cabela's are currently (and typically) 10% below, and several NYC shops are slightly lower yet. For example, I bought my 10x42 SLC for 15% below MSRP last Nov., and EO and Cabela's were 13% below at the time. I could have done similar with ELs. I expect there will be a spate of deals soon, as they all proceed to clear inventory for the new style SLCs.

There are one or two NYC shops that sell gray market Swaros even lower, but I don't count that. Leica Internet vendors also sell "demos" and refurbished bins on the US market without a USA PASSPORT warranty. Most recently they are offering demos with only 1-yr. manufacturer's coverage. Nikon does similar sorts of things. Since one pays less, but also gets less, it's hard for me to regard these prices as discounted.

John,

That's a great Zeiss reference! :t:

Regards,
-elk

[etc]

Great info