Canon 350D for digiscoping, HOW???

[midge]

Hi, wonder if any of you guys can help me out with a problem please?
I have had the new Canon 350D since the day of it's release and am very happy with it apart from one aspect, my lenses, basically they are a combination of cheapo "kit" lenses and one decent Sigma lens (though this is a macro), I also have a cheap Centon 500mm mirror lens, now all of these lenses "work", but apart from the sigma they are not that sharp. I tried fitting my Opticron ES80 GA ED scope to the camera with the T mount I use to fit the mirror lens to the Camera, it fits okay but it is impossible to then focus the scope, leaving me more than a little frustrated (and baffled). I have seen threads with Nikon Digital SLR's fitted to scopes, and even a recent thread where the Canon 350D has been used, but how do they fit one to the other? I am looking for a secure fit rather than the hit and miss of a handheld shot over the scope eyepiece (By the way mine is the 20-60x zoom), is there an adaptor available or is there some other way that I am not aware of. I hope someone can please help me with this, I cant afford another lens as yet as the camera took my spare cash. I really want to get out there and photograph some birds with the kit I have available.
Sorry this is a bit long winded but Thanks in anticipation of any help.
Midge

[IanF]

I'd be interested in the replies too as I am also considering either the 300D or wondering if it's worth spending the extra on the 350D? Do you know if it has a mirror lock? Even Jessops didn't know!

From what I've been researching there are two choices, either using a T mount as you have tried, but with no scope eyepiece in place and using a photo (SLR) adapter or using the eyepeice but with a fast fixed lens - usually 50mm prime attached to the camera and then mounted by an adapter such as you'd use with the Nikon CP4500.

[midge]

Ian
Confusing isnt it? When I mounted the camera to the scope using the T MOUNT I had first removed the scopes eyepiece, the T MOUNT fitted the scope perfectly, even though its an angled scope I was able to attach the camera but on looking through the viewfinder no amount of focusing on the scope would provide anything other than a blurred mess? I am sure there is a way to achieve what I want to do, just got to hope that someone will come along and help to solve this for us.

Midge

[christineredgate]

Midge is your T mount compatible with both the scope and camera.I used to use the Swar KA-TLS800 with the T2--EOS mount on both a 300/20d cams.There was a perfect pic each time by just focussing with the scope.I think the cams had to be set to the AV setting.The only prob was,one could not zoom as one can when using the 4500 set up.

[midge]

Christine
In answer to your question "Is the T Mount compatible with both the scope and the camera?", yes, it seems to be. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I had no problem fitting the T mount after removing the scopes eyepiece, I then mounted the camera and "Nothing" sadly just a blur, if memory serves I had the camera set to "M" (manual) so I will try your suggestion of setting the camera to AV, I have looked at your gallery quite a few times and would be well pleased to achieve similar results to yourself, thanks for the suggestion on camera setting.
Midge

[Henry B]

I am about to buy the 350d very soon, and will be using it with my es80 45angled scope. Curently I am using it [scope] with my Canon eos300v film camera,with T mount and 23x eyepeice.This I am told would be same for the 350d.Hope this is right or I will be more confused than I am already.. PS 7dayshop £609 with lens..hb

[midge]

Henry
I'm even more confused now mate, you are using a T mount to attach your camera to your scope via the scopes eyepiece?? I cant visualise how this would work? Help this puzzle is driving me nuts, so much for a university education, no use for practical stuff like this ;) LOL

Midge

[IanF]

Yes Christine, that seems to be the big disadvantage of using a DSLR. Using just the T mount seems to be least successful method. From the other threads on this subject and the results I've seen in the Gallery, using the 50mm fixed lens yields far better results as it incorporates a bit more camera reach.

I haven't though seen any photos using a DSLR+plus one of the bog standard zooms that come packaged with the DSLR's which would give a bit of zoom control but I wonder at what cost of quality.

BTW Midge, I'm not sure why you used the bold type in your reply? A 'T mount' can be used on it's own to attach the camera body to the scope or with a photo adapter as well. Lack of using a photo adapter which usually comes in a couple of sizes maybe the root of the problem you have experienced - though I'd have thought manual focus of the scope would suffice.

BTW using cheap lenses usually results in cheap results. Very good birding photos have been obtained using both the Canon 500mm mirror lens and the Sigma 600mm mirror lens - if you want to go that route - prime lenses yield far better.

[midge]

Ian
Thanks, I used the bold just to reassure myself that people would get my meaning, I wasnt questioning that it wouldnt work as such, just that it didnt for me when I tried today. Like most of my brain waves it didnt quite work the way I had thought it would. I will try again tomorrow using Christines suggestion though. As for the cheap lenses producing cheap results, I'll have to agree with you wholeheartedly, the Mirror lens (A Centon 500mm) produces very soft results, no detail whatsoever, it was an impulse buy and I now wish I had kept my money in my pocket, oh well we live and learn. Thanks for your input, I appreciate all the advice I can get.
Regards
Midge

[Henry B]

Midge,if you can have a look at opticrons web site ,eos 80 scope and scroll down to camera adapter, that is what I,ve got. and use with my camera.you can not use it with a zoom e/p as the adapter screws on to where the zoom e/p would be. Hence my thinking this is how the 350d will also work. there is no way a camera lens will match up with this scope. hb

[midge]

Henry
Thanks mate that is just what I needed to see, a photo of an angled Opticron scope being used with an SLR, looks like its going to cost me in excess of a £100 but that is more attainable for me at the moment than a new quality superzoom lens. Thanks again to all of you for your advice, you guys are great :clap: Im still going to try Christines tip of using AV setting with just the camera mounted on the T mount, I'll let you know what happens.
Midge

[midge]

Well I tried fitting the 350D to the scope just using the T mount and setting to AV as Christine advised and again nothing but blurred light, I'm guessing it might have something to do with the difference between my Opticron and Christines Swarovski? So foiled again, I guess I'm just going to have to scrape together the funds for the Opticron Photoadaptor and a compatible eyepiece, I'll never be rich at this rate LOL
Midge

[Adey Baker]

Midge, if you remove the eyepiece there's nothing for the scope to focus into the camera - it's just pure coincidence that your scope body and the T-mount have the same sized thread

You'll need the optical photo-adaptor in place of the eyepiece and this is what you fit the T-mount to.

Alternatively, with the eyepiece in place use your camera with a lens, as suggested by IanF. A 'standard' zoom should work OK, but a 50mm prime (the Canon F1.8 lens is about £80) should be a better option. You'll need something like one of the various digiscoping adaptors with the appropriate stepping ring to mount it or one of those things that swings in front of the eyepiece (can't remember what they're called!)

[christineredgate]

Midge,have a chat with your local optics dealer,or one of the mail order companies,eg Ace Optics,and they can advise you as to the best way to achieve digiscoping with you particular set up.Ace Optics specialise in scopes and compatible cams and set ups,and are very good with their advice..Mifsuds is another good company,they specialise in Canon equipment, but they do not deal in scopes as Ace Optics do.

[midge]

Christine
Thanks for your continued support on this. I currently live in the sticks shall we say, and dont have a decent optics dealer anywhere near so I will have to go the mail order route which I dont really care for as you dont get chance to check different options. However we are moving to Bath in August, so for a while at least I will be able to visit ACE in person. As I'm sure you can appreciate though, I cant wait till then to get started.
Thanks again for your input everybody.
Best Wishes
Midge

[G0SBW]

I'd be interested in the replies too as I am also considering either the 300D or wondering if it's worth spending the extra on the 350D? Do you know if it has a mirror lock? Even Jessops didn't know!


Hi
The 350D does have mirror lockup. The salesman who sold me mine thought it did not and offered to let me have my trade-in OM1 back if the 350 was mirror lock up deficient.

To use mirror lock up it is necessary to set custom function 7 to "on". Having done this the first press of the shutter button locks up the mirror, and the second press takes the photograph and unlocks the mirror. There are certain caveats regarding the use of mirror lock up with combinations of self timer + bulb functions. Use of the optional remote switch RS-60E3 is reccommended. I guess the bulb setting is not too important for bird photography:-) but it is for astrophotography, another of my future uses of this camera. Altogether, the 350D is a brilliant bit of kit.

Cheers

Tom

[Robert L Jarvis]

Hi Midge

I have a 300d and eventually came to the conclusion that dslr cameras do not lend themselves very easily to digiscoping. It does not mean that it is impossible though. You need to keep the eyepiece on the scope and bring the camera with its lens upto the eyepiece for this you need a bracket. Take a look at www.dhinds.co.uk and scroll to Baader accessories to get the idea of what you need, there bracket is only £30 but I do not know if it will accomodate a dslr, I think it will because you attach the camera to the baseplate by screwing up into the screw mount on the camera. Then bring the camera forward to the eyepiece. the only problem though is that the bracket fits round the eyepiece. You have to consider then will it stand the weight of the camera. Otherwise you need something like the Zeiss bracket or Swaro bracket.

The photo adapters which can be used with your camera for which you have to remove the eyepiece and the camera lens to attach the camera to the scope to make it like a big telephoto are an expensive waste. The magnifiation achieved is too small and you are down to very slow f stops. Ask Tim Allwood, he knows as well.

I seem to recall a thread here somewhere which gave more details and birders experience of using it.

Robert

[midge]

Robert
Thanks for your input, you may have saved me from making an expensive mistake then! When you say low magnification, do you mean that the scope will have very little reach when attached to the SLR? So many conflicting experiences on this matter, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I dont live near a decent optics outlet so I cant try stuff out in store :C I wish I could see some photos that have been taken with the combination Im looking at making. Thing is I dont think I can scrape enough together for a Sigma 50-500 or similar and I dont want to waste the coming (Hopefully) Summer when the light should be more suitable, what to do????????????????????????

Midge

[Robert L Jarvis]

Hi Midge
I have a Kowa photoadapter which I have not used for years and cost over £100. I have taken some photos with it but it's only good if you are near the bird or it's a big bird. The kowa adapter as an example is 800mm and when attached to the scope only gives 16x magnification but there are light problems and the whole setup becomes too heavy with the camera pulling the scope down. Do not even think about a photoadapter!!

The thread on the Baader bracket was in the adapter section on here.

In view of what you say about the readies I would take a closer look at the Baader bracket. I have tried hand holding the 300d to the scope and it is very difficult really a complete no no.

Try the bracket perhaps and save up some cash to get the lens and a teleconverter.

Robert

[PWG]

Until the last month i have been using the 300D for digiscoping with a zeiss camera adapter. The set worked well but is heavier than a lot of options and not too cheap though cheaper than a proper lens. I have a few shots in the gallery to show what can be done.

I spent the time using this to save up for my new canon 100-400 L which I am now playing with.

[Dick Roadnight]

You need a real image - most eyepieces produce a virtual image.

Poke it through a window, through curtains from a darkened room, and see if you can project an image onto a sheet of paper.

In microscopy even the pros might use "normal" rather that specialist phot-microscopes, but they use photo-eyepieces for photography.

If you want to be realy confused, look at the Olympus micro web site:

http://www.olympus-europa.com/micro/

They used to have an online shop - but I think no one could find their way round it!

A microskope photo-eyepiece might be the same as a telescope photo-adaptor, and Olypmus might be able to help you.

Photo-dealers tend to lack (specialist) knowledge, and any specialist knowledge thay have tends to relate to expensive options.

Good modern long lenses cost more than a car... have you looked at E-bay?

Two of my lenses are ex-military arieal reconnaisance lenses, and they apparently cost more than a new Ferrai!

[LCN]

If the 350D is the same as the USA Rebel XT then it does have a mirror lock

I'd be interested in the replies too as I am also considering either the 300D or wondering if it's worth spending the extra on the 350D? Do you know if it has a mirror lock? Even Jessops didn't know!

From what I've been researching there are two choices, either using a T mount as you have tried, but with no scope eyepiece in place and using a photo (SLR) adapter or using the eyepeice but with a fast fixed lens - usually 50mm prime attached to the camera and then mounted by an adapter such as you'd use with the Nikon CP4500.

[bill lord]

Hi, wonder if any of you guys can help me out with a problem please?
I have had the new Canon 350D since the day of it's release and am very happy with it apart from one aspect, my lenses, basically they are a combination of cheapo "kit" lenses and one decent Sigma lens (though this is a macro), I also have a cheap Centon 500mm mirror lens, now all of these lenses "work", but apart from the sigma they are not that sharp. I tried fitting my Opticron ES80 GA ED scope to the camera with the T mount I use to fit the mirror lens to the Camera, it fits okay but it is impossible to then focus the scope, leaving me more than a little frustrated (and baffled). I have seen threads with Nikon Digital SLR's fitted to scopes, and even a recent thread where the Canon 350D has been used, but how do they fit one to the other? I am looking for a secure fit rather than the hit and miss of a handheld shot over the scope eyepiece (By the way mine is the 20-60x zoom), is there an adaptor available or is there some other way that I am not aware of. I hope someone can please help me with this, I cant afford another lens as yet as the camera took my spare cash. I really want to get out there and photograph some birds with the kit I have available.
Sorry this is a bit long winded but Thanks in anticipation of any help.
Midge

I had until recently a Nikon 4500 which I fitted to my Nikon Ed 78 scope with a Nikon FSA adapter ( FSA's 1,2,&3 plus a nikon4500 adapter ) when I bought the 300d three weeks ago I noticed that the FSA adapter minus the 4500 step down ring screwed directly onto the filter threads of the lens, so I tried it and it is superbly easy to use Though with the weight of the camera i will always hold it in place even though the adapter is quite secure. I have only been out watching once with the setup and was able to take the attached picture with settings of 1/380 at f5.6 and an iso of 1600 and manual focus. I chose the 1600 ISO because with fast shutter speeds there is less chance of shake, and so it turned out. When attached to the scope the image through the viewfinder is bright and clear and easy to focus. The Puffin was 50 to 70 yds away in shadow on the cliffs on a bright day.

[geoff hurley]

Midge

i also have the Opticron ES80 GA ED scope and use the Opticron photo adapter code 41110 and use this set up with a nikon D70 and T mount from jessops (canon readily available). the camera can only be used in manual mode. the whole set up is mounted on a stable tripod and pan head i also tend to put a bean bag over the scope to balance out the set up, the camera is also fitted with remote cable set up. some of the results have been impresive but of late i have tended to to use the camera with a telephoto lens.
i have also made an adapter to fit the canon A95 to this set up, again to free up my D70 .

Due to a change in circumstances i know i will not be using the telephoto adapter for a couple of months i will not be able to get out as much i would like.

If you PM your address i'm willing to loan you the tele adapter for a couple of months for you to try and see if it suits your needs.


cheers geoff

[Nadine]

Finally got my canon 350D!! On sunday went out for the first time, you can see some shots at: www.flickr.com/photos/elanus

All the pics from the 24 of june, are taken with the 350D and leica 77 apo

nadine

[postcardcv]

Photo adaptors that attach the camera directly to the scope are not as bad as some have made out. I got one a while back for my Leica scope, to use with my EOS 300D. I have not used it much, but have started to try it out properly this week.
The biggest problems with them are the length of time it takes to set up, and the loss of light. I found that I needed to underexpose shots to keep the shutter speed fast enough - a cable release is essential. The set up is manual focus only, so works best when the birds are 'frame fillers'. The big plus is it turns your scope into a big lens (800mm with leica - I think 1100mm with the Opticron), without costing too much. It's not as versatile as a big lens, and is no good for flight shots, but for close up shots it does the job very well. Here's one from yesterday - http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/56695/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

If I were you I'd take up the offer of borrowing the photo adaptor to see how you get on with it. They are a useful bit of kit, but cannot replace a decent lens. If you can pick up a Sigma 170-500mm (a lot cheaper than the 50-500) I think you get a lot more use out of it.

[Nadine]

I was also thinking of buying the leica photo adaptor, but instead i bought a canon 50mm f1.8 lens, it fits great on the leica eyepiece!! and i can still use the zoom!

I agree that a decent lens maybe be better!!

[postcardcv]

I was also thinking of buying the leica photo adaptor, but instead i bought a canon 50mm f1.8 lens, it fits great on the leica eyepiece!! and i can still use the zoom!

I have considered doing the same, but really want to try one out first. Do you used an adaptor to hold the camera in place (or hand hold)? Do you get any vingetting on your pictures?

[postcardcv]

Have just been trying a few things out...
Here are three pics all taken through my Leica scope (and kitchen window which is why they're 'dirty'). One is taken using the zoom eyepeice (at 20x) and the kit lens (at 55mm), second one is using the zoom eyepeice (20x) and a t-mount (no lens on the camera), third one is using the Leica camera adaptor. All three have been re-sized to 600x400, but I've done nothing else to them, just though it might be interesting to compare. The two shots with the zoom eyepeice are hand holding the camera, third shot the camera is supported by the camera adaptor.

[Nadine]

I use the 50mm lens and a step down ring- 52-49mm. With the rubber cup off it fits perfectly, dont even have to hold the camera! just focus (manual), set apert/veloc. and shoot!
No vingetting at all!

Very happy with this setup! the last photos on my site have no treatment at all!

Nadine
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elanus

[sulphurcrest]

Have just been trying a few things out...
Here are three pics all taken through my Leica scope (and kitchen window which is why they're 'dirty'). One is taken using the zoom eyepeice (at 20x) and the kit lens (at 55mm), second one is using the zoom eyepeice (20x) and a t-mount (no lens on the camera), third one is using the Leica camera adaptor. All three have been re-sized to 600x400, but I've done nothing else to them, just though it might be interesting to compare. The two shots with the zoom eyepeice are hand holding the camera, third shot the camera is supported by the camera adaptor.
This is my first post and I am completely new to digiscoping and have not decided which scope to purchase as yet. I have a Canon D60 DSLR that I could use, but I'm tempted to go for the Nikon Digiscope 7.1 system on the basis of weight and optical quality. The question that I have relates to the magnification that you obtain when you use a typical digiscope set-up with a zoom eyepiece, camera adapter and camera lens - if the zoom is set to say 40x, I assume that the camera sees what the eye sees (approximately) and that you get a more or less 40x magnified image (equivalent to a 2000mm lens in 35mm terms). From what I have read on the web sites of Zeiss, Nikon and a few others who sell photo-adapters that replace the zoom eyepiece, the scope becomes the equivalent of between an 800-1000mm fixed focal length lens - so you would end up with only 18-20x magnification - OK for large birds at a distance, or small ones close up, but not small ones far away. The 3 pics that postcardcv has provided seem to support this assessment - I judge the one taken with the Leica zoom eyepiece and T-mount to have higher magnification (and better contrast and definition) than the pic taken with the Leica photo-adapter. It would be nice if postcardcv could do three more pics of this branch with the zoom set at 20x, 40x and 60x for comparison. Thanks for the helpful discussion.
PS As I live in suburban Melbourne, I am lucky enough to have a flock of between 6-30 wild sulphur-crested cockatoos come to eat at my bird table most days - that's why I chose the web name - I figure that I'm part of their "tribe" by now.