Help needed to ID some moths.

[B.Walsh]

I would be greatful for any help with identifying these moths, as i cant seem to find anything definite in any books i have.

[Highway Man]

I would be greatful for any help with identifying these moths, as i cant seem to find anything definite in any books i have.

1. Scalloped Hazel
2. Middle-barred Minor?
3. The Flame
4. Shuttle shaped Dart
5. ?

Mark

[Brian Stone]

#1 & #3 I'd agree with.
#2 Marbled Minor agg. (Oligia strigilis agg.) for me
#4 is another The Flame (Axylia putris) with its wings atypically spread
#5 I don't know either.

[B.Walsh]

Thanks for the help and i have a few more that need identifying aswell if you can help.
From what ive found i think that 2 may be a Dogs tooth, 3 may be a Double striped pug and 4 might be a Grey pine carpet but im not sure on these and i havent a clue on No.1 .
I would be greatful for any help. Also if anyone has any ideas on No.5 from the first post, that would be great.

[Highway Man]

1st one looks like an Ingrailed Clay.

Mark

[Angus T]

Thanks for the help and i have a few more that need identifying aswell if you can help.
From what ive found i think that 2 may be a Dogs tooth, 3 may be a Double striped pug and 4 might be a Grey pine carpet but im not sure on these and i havent a clue on No.1 .
I would be greatful for any help. Also if anyone has any ideas on No.5 from the first post, that would be great.
Agreed with Ingrailed Clay for #1
#2 Pale-shouldered Brocade
#3 & #4 Agreed with Double-striped Pug and Grep Pine Carpet.

[Angus T]

I would be greatful for any help with identifying these moths, as i cant seem to find anything definite in any books i have.
#1 Scalloped Hazel
#2 I favour Middle-barred Minor, by no means a definite.
#3 & #4 Flame
#5 Mottled Beauty.

[B.Walsh]

Thanks for your help on the last ones though im not convinced on the Mottled Beauty from the first group. Anyway if you get a chance i have a few more to look at.

1.Im sure this one is obvious but its definitely not in the book i use.
2.I think it could be a Barred Straw but im not sure.
3, 4 and 5 i have no idea.
Greatful for any help.

[Angus T]

Thanks for your help on the last ones though im not convinced on the Mottled Beauty from the first group.
It IS Mottled Beauty. Check out link for previous post in an early June thread for reason why.
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=345606&postcount=36




1.Im sure this one is obvious but its definitely not in the book i use.
2.I think it could be a Barred Straw but im not sure.
3, 4 and 5 i have no idea.
Greatful for any help.
1. is a Plume moth. I think ID is possible and if no one else comes up with answer I'll look later.
2. is a Northern Spinach. Barred Straw has a very distinctive restimg posture with wings curled somewhat.
3.A form of Ingrailed Clay
4.I think likely to be Rustic, Hoplodrina Blanda The lighting could be putting me astray.
5.Spectacle.

[Brian Stone]

Try Amblyptilia punctidactyla for the plume.

[B.Walsh]

Angus i see your point about the Mottled Beauty and i have a few more pictures of the same moth with different colours, but that curve is present in all. As for the other moths, is the Northern Spinach the same as The Spinach. I should have picked up on The Spectacle myself but missed him. Number 4 is a very bad picture but i think it was a very worn looking moth. The Ingrailand Clay really catches me out as ive seen at least 6 moths that i was sure were Ingrailand Clays but they were very different. The Plume moth is what i thought myself for number 1 but i only have a couple of Plume moths in my book.

[Angus T]

Angus i see your point about the Mottled Beauty and i have a few more pictures of the same moth with different colours, but that curve is present in all. As for the other moths, is the Northern Spinach the same as The Spinach. I should have picked up on The Spectacle myself but missed him. Number 4 is a very bad picture but i think it was a very worn looking moth. The Ingrailand Clay really catches me out as ive seen at least 6 moths that i was sure were Ingrailand Clays but they were very different. The Plume moth is what i thought myself for number 1 but i only have a couple of Plume moths in my book.
Spinach and Northern Spinach are quite different looking moths. Spinach has only been recorded in Dublin area in Ireland.

Ingrailed clay is very variable. Your one pictured is a form I've not seen.

[B.Walsh]

A few more moths here which i cannot identify, not great pictures but its all i have.

1.I dont know for sure but it may be another Ingrailed Clay.
2.Its a very dark picture but it does not seem to have any obvious markings.
3 & 4 im fairly sure are Micros and i have found nothing even remotely like them, even though they seem to have good markings and colours.
Very greatful for any help you can give me.

[Angus T]

A few more moths here which i cannot identify, not great pictures but its all i have.

1.I dont know for sure but it may be another Ingrailed Clay.
2.Its a very dark picture but it does not seem to have any obvious markings.
3 & 4 im fairly sure are Micros and i have found nothing even remotely like them, even though they seem to have good markings and colours.
Very greatful for any help you can give me.
4.Agapeta hamana
3.Scopariinae sp (Scoparia/Eudonia sp), but I'm not going to call it
2.Clouded-bordered Brindle
1.Tawny-barred Angle.

[B.Walsh]

Oh well none out of four is a start i suppose.
Thanks for those im sure ill have more soon, i hope im not making them to easy for you!

[B.Walsh]

Sooner than i thought i have 5 more for identification.

1.Im fairly sure this is a Barred Red.
2.I think is a Middle Barred Minor
3 & 4 i think are micros so i have no idea.
5.I think it might be a Mother Of Pearl but it looks more like an off colour Small Magpie.

[Brian Stone]

1. Barred Red Hylaea fasciaria
2. Not middle-barred I don't think. Another Marbled Minor agg.?
3. Diamond-back Moth Plutella xylostella
4. Pyralidae: Phycitinae. Not sure which.
5. Mother of Pearl Pleuroptya ruralis

[Angus T]

1. Barred Red Hylaea fasciaria
2. Not middle-barred I don't think. Another Marbled Minor agg.?
3. Diamond-back Moth Plutella xylostella
4. Pyralidae: Phycitinae. Not sure which.
5. Mother of Pearl Pleuroptya ruralis
1. Agreed
2. agreed providing size is right.
3. Rhigognostis incarnatella, and in your defence Brian, I was calling these large Diamond-back for over a season. They been recorded at a number of sites locally and B. Walsh is in a similar part of country.
4. Bee Moth Aphomia Sociella ;) I'm sure you'll kick yourself Brian.
5. Agreed.

[Brian Stone]

Eugh! More haste... :stuck:

[Brian Stone]

Rhigognostis incarnatella is another one that UKmoths has wrong.

Quote: "The adults emerge in September and remain in this stage until around April, hiding in thick cover over the winter."

Presumably you have a summer brood as well.

[B.Walsh]

Thanks for the last group, i hope you dont mind doing some more, these are all fairly bad pictures, thats why i left them till now. It would be great if you could look at them and give your opinion.
My opinion is:

1.Possibly a Mottled Pug.
2.A Rustic i think.
3.Possibly a Foxglove Pug.
4.Possibly a Marbled Pug.
5.Looks like a worn Pale Shouldered Brocade.

As you can see im not very good at spotting Pugs.

[Surreybirder]

I hope I'm not completely mad but 1 looks like a garden carpet to me.
I agree that 5 is worn ;)
Ken

[Angus T]

I hope I'm not completely mad but 1 looks like a garden carpet to me.
I agree that 5 is worn ;)
Ken
Yes 1. is a Garden Carpet
2. Mottled Rustic, not 100% though
3.Yes for Foxglove Pug,
4, yes for another Pug, but I'm not going to call it.
5. could certainly be a Pale-shouldered Brocade, but i'm not going to confirm it.

[Angus T]

Rhigognostis incarnatella is another one that UKmoths has wrong.

Quote: "The adults emerge in September and remain in this stage until around April, hiding in thick cover over the winter."

Presumably you have a summer brood as well.
I wouldn't be so hard on UKmoths as the same info is in MBGBI. Its quite a rare moth in Britain, but seems less so in Ireland. All my records on database are for Spring & Autumn period, but I have photos from last year which I haven't processed and they're possibly Summer ones.

So perhaps it is double-brooded in Ireland, but will take many more records to get clearer picture.

[Angus T]

Thanks for the last group, i hope you dont mind doing some more, these are all fairly bad pictures, thats why i left them till now. It would be great if you could look at them and give your opinion.
My opinion is:

1.Possibly a Mottled Pug.
2.A Rustic i think.
3.Possibly a Foxglove Pug.
4.Possibly a Marbled Pug.
5.Looks like a worn Pale Shouldered Brocade.

As you can see im not very good at spotting Pugs.
OK I'll make a suggestion for no.4
Possibly Grey Pug, though a bit brown for my liking.

The size can be a big help, particularly with the smaller moths.

[B.Walsh]

Thanks guys, i will try and find a way of sizing the moths that dont have any obvious markings but since im not trapping them im always afraid they will move away if i get to close to them.

[Brian Stone]

Had a look at these and I'm with the others on the Garden Carpet and Mottled Rustic.

I think the first pug is Foxglove Pug (Eupithecia pulchellata). Although this is by no means certain. I don't think it is Toadflax Pug (on the basis of the angle of part of one of the cross-lines). This would be easier in the hand.

I've been calling things that look a bit like the other pug Freyer's (Eupithecia intricata). See attached pic.

I can't add anything to the last one.

[B.Walsh]

Hello, ive been away for a couple of days but im back now with some more moth identification headaches. I think i might have this next five identified but it would be great if someone could second my thoughts.

1.I think is a Common Carpet.
2.Possibly a Clouded Silver.
3.Possibly a Bright-Line Brown-Eye.
4.Possibly The Drinker.
5.Possibly a Straw Dot.

[Angus T]

Hello, ive been away for a couple of days but im back now with some more moth identification headaches. I think i might have this next five identified but it would be great if someone could second my thoughts.

1.I think is a Common Carpet.
2.Possibly a Clouded Silver.
3.Possibly a Bright-Line Brown-Eye.
4.Possibly The Drinker.
5.Possibly a Straw Dot.
The first is a Sharp-angled Carpet,
The rest are correct!!

[B.Walsh]

Thanks for that Angus, i wouldn't have spotted the Sharp Angled Carpet.
Some more now and again i apologise for the bad quality photos especially Nos 1,4 and 5.
My thoughts are:

1.I have no idea.
2.Possibly a Dogs Tooth or Light Brocade but i remember this moth being about 30mm long.
3.Im sure its a micro but thats all i know.
4.A Codlin Moth is the nearest thing i can find to this one but i think im wrong.
5.Some kind of Pug but i have found nothing like it.
Greatful for any help.

[Surreybirder]

I'll have a go... but don't take my word for them:
1 Don't know
2. dark arches
3. garden grass veneer Chrysoteuchia culmella
4 bramble shoot moth Epiblema uddmanniana
5 single dotted wave.
Ken

[Angus T]

1.I have no idea. I'm struggling to be sure, but likely to be Knot-grass
2.Possibly a Dogs Tooth or Light Brocade but i remember this moth being about 30mm long. a lot of these about Dark Arches
3.Im sure its a micro but thats all i know. Again not sure, but likely to be Chrysoteuchia culmella (Garden Grass-veneer)
4.A Codlin Moth is the nearest thing i can find to this one but i think im wrong. Thankfully one of the easier ones Epiblema uddmanniana (Bramble Shoot Moth)
5.Some kind of Pug but i have found nothing like it. Not a pug, but can't fault you for thinking that Single-dotted Wave

[B.Walsh]

Cheers guys.
I hope your not sick of identifying just yet as i have a few more to look at if in you can.

1.Maybe a Satin Beauty.
2.Possibly a Large Yellow Underwing. (half its wing was broken off)
3.No idea, im sure its another micro.
4.Possibly another Ingrailed Clay but im not sure.
5.Satin Wave is as close as i can get but it doesent look like other photos i have of Satin Waves.
Greatful for any help you can give me.

[Angus T]

I hope your not sick of identifying just yet as i have a few more to look at if in you can. As long as your're learning something then keep them coming!

1.Maybe a Satin Beauty. I'm almost possitive it is, but i only recorded it for first time last Saturday. Do you have coniferous forest nearby?
2.Possibly a Large Yellow Underwing. (half its wing was broken off) Yes. This species will be most likely most abundant Late July/Aug.
3.No idea, im sure its another micro. Pandemis cerasana (Barred Fruit-tree Tortrix)
4.Possibly another Ingrailed Clay but im not sure. I'd say it probably is.
5.Satin Wave is as close as i can get but it doesent look like other photos i have of Satin Waves. Small Fan-footed Wave. Usually they rest with wings more spread out. Satin wave flight season is over.

[B.Walsh]

Yes theres a good sized coniferous forest almost right beside my house.
Thanks for those and i am definitely learning something.

[Angus T]

Yes theres a good sized coniferous forest almost right beside my house.
Thanks for those and i am definitely learning something.
That makes me happier with Satin Beauty.

About the Satin Wave, I was wrong in saying its flight season is over. It seemed to be finished with me, but I had a couple in trap this morning after a couple week absence.

[B.Walsh]

Im long overdue an installment of moths for identification, so heres the next lot im unsure of.
My thoughts are:

1.July Belle i think, as the Lead Belle season is over from what ive read.
2.Another micro and i have no idea.
3.Possibly a Triple Spotted Clay or a Square Spotted Clay.
4.Looks very worn to me and i cant come up with anything.
5.Fairly sure this is a July Highflier.
Thankful for any help you can give me.

[Surreybirder]

1. No experience
2 Look around dark fruit-tree tortrix
3. Might be double square spot
4 don't know
5 agree
Ken

[jhiggott]

1. Lead Belle
2. Archips podana
3. Double Square-spot
4. ?
5. July Highflyer

Jeff.

[Grampy Bustard]

1. Lead Belle
2. Archips podana
3. Double Square-spot
4. ?
5. July Highflyer

Jeff.
Very useful website of yours Jeff, and I see post 1, so welcome to the fray !

[Surreybirder]

Very useful website of yours Jeff, and I see post 1, so welcome to the fray !
I see you've suddenly jumped to 500+ posts, Mocha ;)
Welcome to Jeff. I'm sure we'll all enjoy exploiting your expertise!
Ken

PS Any views on this micro?

[Stuart Read]

Thanks for that Angus, i wouldn't have spotted the Sharp Angled Carpet.
Some more now and again i apologise for the bad quality photos especially Nos 1,4 and 5.
My thoughts are:

1.I have no idea.
2.Possibly a Dogs Tooth or Light Brocade but i remember this moth being about 30mm long.
3.Im sure its a micro but thats all i know.
4.A Codlin Moth is the nearest thing i can find to this one but i think im wrong.
5.Some kind of Pug but i have found nothing like it.
Greatful for any help.



1. Isn't this one a Straw Underwing?

Stuart.

[jhiggott]

I see you've suddenly jumped to 500+ posts, Mocha ;)
Welcome to Jeff. I'm sure we'll all enjoy exploiting your expertise!
Ken

PS Any views on this micro?

Aethes hartmanniana?

J.

[Surreybirder]

Aethes hartmanniana?

J.
thanks, Jeff.
Apparently its Agapeta hamana--confirmed by Reg Fry and my CR.
Ken

[Cuckoo-shrike]

With all the rain today, it's been a good day to try and i.d. some micro photos, some of which have been sitting in my files for over 12 months. I've had a few successes but can't find these, which should be do-able, even though the photos are poor. Any ideas anyone?
Many thanks.

[Surreybirder]

With all the rain today, it's been a good day to try and i.d. some micro photos, some of which have been sitting in my files for over 12 months. I've had a few successes but can't find these, which should be do-able, even though the photos are poor. Any ideas anyone?
Many thanks.
Could the second one be Pseudargyrotoza conwagana?
The first one has some resemblance to Udea fulvalis except that the antennae seem to be pointing in the wrong direction, so it's probably a different sub-family altogether ;)
Ken

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Ken, I do believe you're right on both counts.
U.fulvalis would be a very good record indeed for Cornwall.
As for the other one, I must have scoured the Torticidae ten times and not spotted it. Doh...
Thanks very much.

[hjalava]

With all the rain today, it's been a good day to try and i.d. some micro photos, some of which have been sitting in my files for over 12 months. I've had a few successes but can't find these, which should be do-able, even though the photos are poor. Any ideas anyone?
Many thanks.

I suggest Pyrausta despicatus for the first one, see http://ukmoths.org.uk/show.php?id=1356.

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Mmm, maybe you're right Harri. Do you know why this species isn't in Goater's "British Pyralid Moths"? I guess it is actually, but under another name.

[Angus T]

Mmm, maybe you're right Harri. Do you know why this species isn't in Goater's "British Pyralid Moths"? I guess it is actually, but under another name.
Goater was published nearly 20 years ago. I assume it was P. cespitalis as it is in Goater.

[hjalava]

Goater was published nearly 20 years ago. I assume it was P. cespitalis as it is in Goater.

Yes, that's right, P. cespitalis is a younger synonym of P. despicatus.

[B.Walsh]

Hi its been ages since i last posted on this thread as i have been busy with other things but now i have a little more time and a good few moths that im unsure of so as always any help you can offer, i would be greatful for.

My ideas for this next five are as follows:
I have no idea except for number 2 which i think could be a "Flame Carpet".

[Angus T]

Hi its been ages since i last posted on this thread as i have been busy with other things but now i have a little more time and a good few moths that im unsure of so as always any help you can offer, i would be greatful for.

My ideas for this next five are as follows:
I have no idea except for number 2 which i think could be a "Flame Carpet".
Spot on for flame carpet.

#1. July Highflyer. very variable, but often green with a quite rounded shape.
#3 Udea prunalis
#4 I think Crambus pascuella
#5 Marbled Beauty, though I'm not quite 100% that it isn't Marbled Green

[B.Walsh]

Thanks Angus ill have more soon no doubt.