young big tit

[galy]

Hello!

First I have to apologize if I posted in the wrong theme. I have just signed in and I haven’t had time to look around yet. If a similar thread already exists just redirect me.

This spring was the second time that I found a young bird that fell out off its nest. Both times it was a big tit. We couldn’t return it back to the nest because of nests position. I have quite a few questions:

1. I attached a few photos of these birds. Can you tell me how old are they (approximately)?

dead bird (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/galandrijel/ptic/mrtev1.jpg)
I found this one dying.

Copi1 (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/galandrijel/ptic/copi2.jpg)
Copi2 (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/galandrijel/ptic/copi1.jpg)
This is the bird from last year (Copi). The pictures were taken about a week after I found him.

Capi1 (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/galandrijel/ptic/04.jpg)
Capi2 (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/galandrijel/ptic/08.jpg)
This is this year bird (Capi). Pictures were taken two days after we found him.

How long do big tits need from hatching (out of the egg) to leaving the nest? For how long after that their mother stays with them?

2. Last year everything went OK. We fed and kept Copi in the house for 14 days, and then we let him out where he explored the surroundings by himself (but we still fed him – when we called he came). After 14 days he joined other birds and flew away.
This year it’s whole different story. Capi was a week older when we found him and at the moment he is released to explore on his own. The problem is he doesn’t want to. All he does is sit on the nearest tree and comes when he’s hungry. But I hope this will change in near future.

We feed him with ground meat (if you know what I mean by that) dipped in water. Now we have problems how to change this diet to seeds. Any suggestions? When do birds in the wilderness start eating seeds?

3. I read somewhere that male big tits have wider black line on their belly and females narrow. Am I correct? Can you tell me the sex of my birds (from photos)?

Thank you for all your answers. If I remember anything else, I’ll ask later. Thanks again.

[birdman]

Dobrodošli galy,

I'm afraid I cannot help you with most of your questions, but for Q3, I think you are right that the male Great Tit has a wider breast-band than the female, but perhaps you should wait for someone else to confirm.

Of course, I do not know the exact circumstances but just in general terms, it sounds like you are making great efforts to help these birds, but I would urge great caution that you are not "helping" when help is not required.

All the best.

[pauco]

Hi galy, welcome to BirdForum.

As Birdman has said, it is the male with the wide breast band.

I think that the parents stay with the young for up to 10 days from them leaving the nest, and gradually stop feeding them, then thy face the big bad world alone.

I am sure someone will be along to help you with your other questions.
Good luck.

[galy]

Believe me, I wish this whole thing with birds falling out off nest would stop. After last year I build new nests (you know, from wood) and improved that one (we have problems with only one of them - it's beneath the roof), but I guess not enough. When I have time, I'll close all holes, so hopefully next year will be bird-free. ;)

[birdman]

Or... you could put up nest-boxes...

I don't know how readily available they are in Slovenia, but I'm sure you could search the web for information of making Tit Boxes... then you get the best of both worlds, perhaps?

(By the way, if you don't mind me asking, which part of beautiful Slovenia are you from...?)

[robinm]

Hi Galy,

A warm welcome to BirdForum from all the Moderators and Admin.

Some general information on dealing with young birds can be found here - http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=36564

[KnockerNorton]

Dead Bird = about 10 days old
Copi1 = about 15 days old
Capi1 = about 13 days old

>How long do big tits need from hatching (out of the egg) to leaving the nest?

It's about 18-21 days.

>For how long after that their mother stays with them?

Anything from 2 to 3 weeks. But after 7-10 days they will begin to start learning to feed themselves, pecking at insects etc. But their parents still feed them caterpillars for longer, although the frequency decreases as time goes on, and then after about 3 weeks they are independent.

>Any suggestions? When do birds in the wilderness start eating seeds?

Juvenile tits are not very interested in seeds (such as sunflower hearts) until about a month after independence (so about 10 weeks old). They are more interested in spiders and caterpillars until these run out in autumn. Only then will seeds be a big part of the diet.

>I read somewhere that male big tits have wider black line on their belly and females narrow. Am I correct? Can you tell me the sex of my birds (from photos)?

It's impossible to tell the sex of juveniles, as they start to moult all of their body feathers (but not wings or tail) around 2 months after leaving the nest. Only then does the adult (or first winter) plumage, with the difference in the black band, become apparent. Males have broader bands, but this is sometimes inconclusive just by looking at them - the best way is to look between the legs - males have solid black between the legs, females only a little black.

Once young Great Tits are independent, they join flocks of other tits (eg Blue Tit, Marsh Tit, Long-tailed Tit) and warblers/treecreepers and will roam around a homerange throughout the winter. To give your birds the best chance of survival, you should try and get them to leave you and join other birds as soon as possible. This means about 3 -4 weeks after you find them.

It seems odd that they should keep falling out of the nest; this suggests that either something/somebody is pulling them out, or that the nest site is not deep enough. Any nest site should have a depth (from the hole to the bottom of the nest) of about 20 cm. These nest boxes are easy to make.

[galy]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! That is the answer I have been waiting for!

This nest, where they have been falling from, is not hand made but natural (you know, under the roof). It will definitely be closed.

robinm - thanks, already read that.

birdman - by building nests I meant nest-boxes (ah, my English... :) . I'm from south Gorenjska (west from Ljubljana). ;)