What is included with ultravid package?

[randman]

I just bought a new 8x30 swaro SLC. In the new box there were coupons for a free knife, guidebook, lapel pin and a discount on a hat. Well, it turns out that the discount on the hat for example is HUGE, and the hat is of the finest quality made anywhere. It is almost a 300$ value. In general, it was a very professional touch.

Does Leica have similar corporate vendor agreements and include these kind of goodies with the purchase of a new bino?

[Buster]

$300.00 hat, give me a break......

[Bill Atwood]

I'd be pretty pissed to pay Swaro prices then find that garbage in the box.

[xenophobe]

$300 for a free knife, guidebook and lapel pin? Don't you get that with a $15 membership to the NRA? lol

[elkcub]

randman,

Swarovski has been including minor promotional stuff with their binoculars for at least 12 years — even back when Leica and Zeiss were much more expensive, and Swaro was the new boy on the block. I always saw it as a nice touch even though I never took advantage of it. I don't follow why it's scorned, — but then you are on a Leica forum. ;)

Swaro 8x30 SLCs are my primary birding binoculars. Can't be beat!

Regards,
Elkcub

[randman]

I do not understand the Attitude. Promotional items and synergy are the only way companies thrive and "exceed" customer expectations.

And yes, a 10x beaver felt hat is a helluva deal when you spend as much time in the outdoors as I do. You obviously must observe from the comfort of your backyard. I observe for hikes lasting many days. If one cannot understand the value of a quality piece of gear such as a hat, then why do you need high end binos in the first place? Drugstore cowboys.

Why should'nt I be pleased? I researched each item and they were contracted with the best in the business in their respected areas. The knife is actually quite good. Who would go afield without a knife? Buster probably.

So, since no one has an answer I assume that Leica gives you the bins and a good luck wish. What if Leica offered a smart gortex rainsuit? Seems like you guys would never wear it anyway.

[Highway Man]

With my Ultravids I got a proper case, large micro fibre lens cloth and most importantly the Leica Passport, which gives you free accidental damage cover for two years.

Mark

[Bill Atwood]

Don't know about Buster, but I've been going "into the field" without a knife for years. Guess I've been extremely lucky to survive. Maybe it's because I've not been wearing a $300 beaver felt hat coveted by thieves everywhere.

Promotional items and "synergy" are the only way companies survive? Hahahahaha, that's rich. Sounds like marketing/advertising garbage to me. I'll take a good product at a reasonable price over extra goodies and an inflated price anyday.

[Lewie]

With my Ultravids I got a proper case, large micro fibre lens cloth and most importantly the Leica Passport, which gives you free accidental damage cover for two years.

Mark

I thought that with the Leica Passport you receive coverage for accidental damage for the lifetime of the original owner. Am I mistaken? Not a Leica owner, but might be in the future.

Lew

[xenophobe]

Hmm.... I really see this like buying a Mercedes over a Jaguar because you'll get a free CD changer and logo'd sport coat.

Maybe if I was comparing KIAs and Geo Metros. lol

[Highway Man]

I thought that with the Leica Passport you receive coverage for accidental damage for the lifetime of the original owner. Am I mistaken? Not a Leica owner, but might be in the future.

Lew

No afraid not it's only for the first two years.

[Toothless9]

:bounce: Leicas just finished offering a $200 flashlight with a purchase of the Duovids(expired 6/30). I just got my 8+12 Duovids but I was too late but I don't mine because I saved much more than $200!

[Buster]

The USA Passport Warranty used to be three years, but changed in 2002 or 2003 to lifetime for the original owner of goods purchased through an authorized Leica dealer...

[elkcub]

... Sounds like marketing/advertising garbage to me. I'll take a good product at a reasonable price over extra goodies and an inflated price anyday.

Let's get factual. Here is a summary from the latest Cabela's Special Limited Edition 2005 prices. I've rounded up to whole dollars. Please point out the "reasonably priced" products vs those with "inflated prices."

I apologize if there are data entry errors, which I'm sure folks will correct. Short of that, the chart speaks for itself.

Elkcub :news:

[Bill Atwood]

The chart's average figures are invalid. They are an apples to oranges comparison since different bin powers/sizes are used for each brand in the same categories. In addition, Cabela's would not be a source I would use for pricing. They typically charge the full (or very close to) suggested retail price of all the bins they sell. Leica, Zeiss and Nikon products are almost always available cheaper from other optics retailers. AFAIK Swaro is the only manufacturer that has had a longstanding policy of requiring all of their US outlets to charge the same price.

For bins I would be interested in, the Swaro 8.5x42 EL runs $1700; $300 more than the Zeiss 8x42 ($1,399 at Eagle Optics). I guess we see where that beaver felt hat is!

The above being said, on July 1 Leica made a major price increase which brings most of their Ultravid line very close to Swaro EL prices. At this time they also seem to be requiring that all of their retailers charge the same price. IF history repeats itself I expect Leica to relax this policy well before Swaro does.

I can see how my previous use of “reasonable price” can be questioned, since they are all in the same ballpark. However (other than the older Leicas models) Swaro is still priced higher than the comparable products of every other brand. With Zeiss and Nikon products this difference is fairly significant. Until July 1 this was also the case with Leica.

Maybe my previous comments were construed to indicate that I’m a Leica fan. I’m not. I’ve owned products from most of the major manufacturers and have no brand loyalty. My intended point was to counter the original posters contention that Swaro was better than Leica because they offer some extraneous crap with their optics. Unfortunately, it appears that Leica may now be using the same marketing tactic. These extras must cost them something. I would much rather see a $50 reduction in price over some surprise goodies.

I don’t recall seeing any extras in the 2 Swaro scopes I’ve bought. If Swaro really wanted to impress me, they would of supplied the stay-on case with my ATS scope. Or even a partial discount coupon for it. Not ask me to pay $219 for it. Damn! Now that I think about it, the fact they are giving away a stuff with their $1,000 bin, while wanting to screw me for another 10% on a $2,200 scope really makes me mad. I sincerely hope I don’t like any new products they come up with.

[Curtis Croulet]

Zeiss 8x42 ($1,399 at Eagle Optics).

$1499.99 currently. These prices change frequently. I got mine for $1199.00 from EO a year ago. Didn't the Swaro EL originally come with the metal case as standard equipment?

[Bill Atwood]

No, $1,399 right now.

[elkcub]

$1499.99 currently. These prices change frequently. I got mine for $1199.00 from EO a year ago. Didn't the Swaro EL originally come with the metal case as standard equipment?

Prices are a moving target. I bought my 10x42 SLCs last November for $1000, and they now sell for $1180 — more for SLCnew. I think the EL hard case was extra (like $60) but sometimes used as a deal maker. I could be wrong about that. Whatever — I don't see a heck of a lot of difference at these high price levels, and if you buy what makes you happy in the first place it will be cost effective in the long run. Constantly harassing Swarovski by saying they are "overpriced" is just unfair. By all means one should buy what's "reasonably" priced if that's the main criterion. Otherwise, spend the extra bucks and don't look back.

-elkcub

[gw4aurora]

$1499.99 currently. These prices change frequently. I got mine for $1199.00 from EO a year ago. Didn't the Swaro EL originally come with the metal case as standard equipment?

I bought the 10x42EL when they first came out and it had a soft case, over the pond it may have been different.

Chris.

[Pileatus]

The chart's average figures are invalid. They are an apples to oranges comparison since different bin powers/sizes are used for each brand in the same categories. In addition, Cabela's would not be a source I would use for pricing. They typically charge the full (or very close to) suggested retail price of all the bins they sell. Leica, Zeiss and Nikon products are almost always available cheaper from other optics retailers. AFAIK Swaro is the only manufacturer that has had a longstanding policy of requiring all of their US outlets to charge the same price.

For bins I would be interested in, the Swaro 8.5x42 EL runs $1700; $300 more than the Zeiss 8x42 ($1,399 at Eagle Optics). I guess we see where that beaver felt hat is!

The above being said, on July 1 Leica made a major price increase which brings most of their Ultravid line very close to Swaro EL prices. At this time they also seem to be requiring that all of their retailers charge the same price. IF history repeats itself I expect Leica to relax this policy well before Swaro does.

I can see how my previous use of “reasonable price” can be questioned, since they are all in the same ballpark. However (other than the older Leicas models) Swaro is still priced higher than the comparable products of every other brand. With Zeiss and Nikon products this difference is fairly significant. Until July 1 this was also the case with Leica.

Maybe my previous comments were construed to indicate that I’m a Leica fan. I’m not. I’ve owned products from most of the major manufacturers and have no brand loyalty. My intended point was to counter the original posters contention that Swaro was better than Leica because they offer some extraneous crap with their optics. Unfortunately, it appears that Leica may now be using the same marketing tactic. These extras must cost them something. I would much rather see a $50 reduction in price over some surprise goodies.

I don’t recall seeing any extras in the 2 Swaro scopes I’ve bought. If Swaro really wanted to impress me, they would of supplied the stay-on case with my ATS scope. Or even a partial discount coupon for it. Not ask me to pay $219 for it. Damn! Now that I think about it, the fact they are giving away a stuff with their $1,000 bin, while wanting to screw me for another 10% on a $2,200 scope really makes me mad. I sincerely hope I don’t like any new products they come up with.


Bill,

I must have been sleeping because I missed these increases by a mile. In November I paid $1150 for my 7X42 Ultravid. Now, I can't find it under $1545. That's a whopping 34% increase!

John

[Bill Atwood]

They just did it 3 weeks ago John. I wouldn't of known about it unless one of the retailers agave me a aheads up a few weeks ago.

When I was on a bits of a spree about a year ago several of my acquaintances wer laughing at the money I was spending. Now the ones that had been wanting to upgrade their scopes or bins are rather sad.

[randman]

I paid 799 for the swaro 8x30slcs mentioned earlier. And you guessed it, Swaro is in the process of denying future contracts. They are a reputable vendor also.

I have no true brand loyalty either. In fact the prices are a myriad of confusion for me. It does tick me off that Swaro forces it's retailers to charge the same price. I like the El's, but can't commit to the price. It is the worse kind of buyers remorse / love hate relationship.

Some knucklhead CFO calculates price increases while a more easy going marketing team thinks up new ways (gimmicks) to help sell the product. Heck, I originally posted because I wish Leica would throw me a bone here...anything...I want the 10x50's.

My original point was I thought my package rcvd was a nice touch. Your points are well taken. Good discussion.

You guys are still not going to be able to borrow my swaro butter knife in the woods.

[Jaeger01]

I paid 799 for the swaro 8x30slcs mentioned earlier. And you guessed it, Swaro is in the process of denying future contracts. They are a reputable vendor also.

I paid $799 US also, but didn't receive the coupons you did and I could use a new hat and a decent knife. All I get is a shoulder patch, but I am very happy with the 8x30's and considered it an excellent buy, even without the coupon perks.

Jaeger near Chicago

[Toothless9]

Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski and Nikon, its all about marketing. When you look through their top end bins, theres not a lot of difference in the final view. There all pretty much razor sharp and an excellent view but for their prices, they better be! So, other than brand loyalty, promotional offerings can tip the scales to the buyers. All these companies probably employ marketing professionals that understand consumer buying habits and know these offers CAN and WILL results in increase sales. I'm sure forum poster are not there target market, its the rest of the world. Most buyers probably don't read these forums or post, only the super avid buyers. There are probably subtle differences in the top brands but only each individual will notice not the masses. As for pricing, every company know what it can charge to produce sales so if the price is too high, then I simply can't afford it. They are not neccessarily overpriced or they wouldn't have charged it (nobody likes to lose market share and this is analyzed by their marketing experts again).Somebody is willing to pay these prices (must be quite a few) so they do. Simple economics. As for discounting, I believe all these companies have a minimum adverstised pricing policy that any authorized vendor can charge. Anyone notice that most online store advertise the same price but never the MSRP. The key word here is ADVERTISED. I'm sure vendors can charge whatever price they want, even below the advertised price if they want but why would they? I bet if you bought in bulk (say 2 or more the vendor would give a better price). If the vendor can't go below the minimum pricing and say it the Leica, Zeiss, Swaro, or Nikon's that dictates the price, then its price fixing which (I belive is illegal in the US). I think vendors have more flexibility if they chose but then again, why would they when they can hide behind the minimum advertised pricing policy.

[elkcub]

There's real teeth in some of those statements, Toothless9. ;)

I agree with most of what you said, but if "these companies have a minimum adverstised pricing policy that any authorized vendor can charge," by some definition it's fixing the price if not "price fixing." I think (subject to legal correction) that "price fixing" refers to otherwise competitive companies making a hidden deal to set prices, which thereby stifles real competition. I don't think US law prevents a manufacturer from not renewing a dealership agreement for business reasons. Hence, as you say, that's often as convenient an arrangement for the dealers as the manufacturers.

Elkcub

[Curtis Croulet]

No, $1,399 right now.

It was $1499.99 a few seconds before my post, but maybe the "transaction price" -- which I can't see -- is cheaper.

[xenophobe]

MAP is not price fixing. It just makes it so real stores don't have to completely compete with mom & pop selling bins over the internet.

An internet dealer can often sell product for as little as 5% markup on an item and make out like a bandit, whereas a real retail establishment needs to charge more to cover employee salary, lights, rent, etc...

As a manufacturer, MAP helps protect the retail stores (their bread and butter), and in the end, that's where most of a companies' product are probably sold.

Sure, MAP sounds like a horrendus thing to internet consumers, but in reality, a retailer can charge whatever they want on an item. They just can't advertise it for less than MAP, giving all dealers a more fair chance at selling product.

[Bill Atwood]

Yes Curtis, you gotta check those transaction prices!