How is "Leica" pronounced?

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

I've always pronounced Leica as "Like-uh". The other day, as I was birding at a local park, a fellow asked if he could take a look through my "Leek-uh" binoculars. I was rather shocked... I had never heard this pronounciation before.

Just to settle the issue in my own mind, what is the correct way to say Leica?

Best wishes,
Bawko

[Pinewood]

Do not worry, you have pronounced the name correctly.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[Bill Atwood]

It's pronounced Leek-uh only if they're refurbs.

[MikeMules]

I've tended to go for "ly-sha", with the c pronounced as it would be in "appreciate"

[Pinewood]

I may as well add a little history. In 1914, a mechanic, named Oskar Barnack, working at Ernst Leitz, Germany's second largest manufacturer of microscopes, developed a stil lcamera using 35 mm motion picture film. Supposedly, it was to be used for test exposures on cinema sets. Barnack also took the camera on hikes and engaged in reportage photography. In 1924, the Leitz firm brought out the first practical 35 mm. camera, based on Barnack's design. The name signified LEItz CAmera or Leica. The firm was Leitz and the photographic products were Leica. About twenty years, ago, the firm was reorganized and took the name of its most famous product.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:

[raymondjohn]

Dear Arthur

really interesting!

Now could you tell me how zeiss is prononced and a little of its history?

bestwishes

raymondjohn

PS I hope it is pronounced with a hard i or I have been making a fool of myself for some years now...come to think of it nothing unusual in that anyway.

[xenophobe]

Come on, say it with a Col. Klink accent:

Zzz-ice

I know nuh-sink! *runs and hides for cover*

[Pinewood]

Dear Raymondjohn,

go to
http://www.zeiss.co.uk/
click on corportate
then click on history
click on the subjects to the left

Z as in Zebra, and rhymes with ice, in English.

Incidentally, Leitz or Leica and Zeiss have been competing in microscopes, photography and binoculars for decades. Zeiss is a far larger firm with a strong presence in ophthalmic devices and brand name spectacle lenses, planetarium projectors and all sorts of engineering. Zeiss put the manufacture of optical devices on a sound scientific basis and developed the first practical compound microscopes and binoculars. Leitz started 35 mm photography and kept ahead of Zeiss in that field even though many thought that the Zeiss lenses were superiour. However, everybody knew that the Leica shutter was better than the ones on the early Zeiss Contax cameras because Leitz would not license their patents. Zeiss provided the preferred lenses on the Rolleiflex cameras for years. I suspect that Leica and Zeiss cross license patents, nowadays.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[raymondjohn]

Dear Arthur

Thanks....very interesting reading!

I'm quessing that the mention of the cross license patents is their way of staying on top of the pile and gauranteering their futures.

I know I find the the fine tuner on my zeiss 65FL a really good help when trying identify birds in the field.

bestwishes

raymondjohn

[Curtis Croulet]

Zeiss provided the preferred lenses on the Rolleiflex cameras for years.

Although Rolleis with Zeiss lenses have always commanded a slightly higher resale value, the Schneider-lensed alternatives were fully comparable in every respect of optical performance.


I've tended to go for "ly-sha", with the c pronounced as it would be in "appreciate"

I don't follow the logic of this. To anyone who's studied German, the correct pronunciation of both Leica and Zeiss is very straightforward.

[robinm]

I always say Z-ice myself but if we are being strictly correct (as it is German) it should be pronounced ts-ice.

[Curtis Croulet]

...it should be pronounced ts-ice.

Which is how I say it.

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I always say Nih-kon rather than nye-kon.

[helenol]

ok, is it Nee-kon, nick-on or Nigh-kon (as in: the end is nigh)

I said Nigh kon to someone and they laughed at me!

Is the end nigh for me?

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I say 'nih-kon' (or 'nick-on') because I think vowels are always short in Japanese rather than lengthened as in 'nigh-kon'. Incidentally, in the Paul Simon song 'Kodachrome' he sings about a 'Nigh-kon' camera, so you're in good company Helen.

[tom mckinney]

The best is always hearing people mis-pronounce Swarovski. One I can remember was 'Shavorski'.

[Ranger James]

Like, a...

[mikus]

if you say z-ice instead of tz-ice you disregard the principles of german pronounciation totally, so it seems to me

[Ranger James]

if you say z-ice instead of tz-ice you disregard the principles of german pronounciation totally, so it seems to me

Oh well worse things happen at sea...

[helenol]

I think it also depends whether one pronounces product names as they are pronounced in the country of origin.

Having said that, where do you stop? Do Brits pronouce Paris as pa-ree?

Anyone heard of Yosemite Park pronounced Yose-mite?

Anway, I digree...

[helenol]

I feel a Ruffled Feathers thread coming on....

[Andrew Whitehouse]

The best is always hearing people mis-pronounce Swarovski. One I can remember was 'Shavorski'.

I remember a bloke in an optics shop talking about 'Savorskis'.

[Adey Baker]

Minolta is (apparently) pronounced Mee-noh-roo-tah

Nikon (camera) is pronounced 'Brick' or 'Tank, built like a...'

A friend of a friend always mispronounced his Swift Audobon binoculars 'Orbydons' - we picked up on this to the extent of always calling them by this name, which can be a bit embarrassing when someone overhears you and doesn't know the 'joke'

[James Lowther]

If it's japanese (is it?) i'd say it's somewhere between nick-on and knee-con, but definitely not nigh-kon

[helenol]

sniff, well anyway... moving on.

Dobly anyone?

[hornet]

One of the best uses of the correct pronunciation of Leica was in a famous review of the film I Am A Camera.

The reviewer simply wrote: "Me no Leica."

[henry link]

Could some German speakers give me a hand with Abbe-Koenig and Schmidt-Pechan? Most of the hunters I encounter around here pronounce Swarovski "Savorski".

[Curtis Croulet]

"Leica" or "Zeiss" pronounced correctly will not arouse funny looks amongst English-speaking birders, but "nee-kon" might, notwithstanding that it is in fact correct. I've never quite understood why the Japanese adopted the romanized spelling "Minolta," since they have no actual "L" sound in their language, although their pronunciation of the syllables "ra," "ri," "ru," "re" and "ro" hint at an "L"-like sound. I always thought the pronunciation of "Swarovski" was fairly obvious, but, like others here, I've heard all kinds of mispronunciations. This is interesting, since the Swarovski name has fame beyond birding optics, but maybe those who covet crystal also mispronounce it.

[kmonty1950]

O.K then, how does one pronounce "Sabines"? (Says he, wandering off at a bit of a tangent).

Regards

Ken

[matt green]

Greetings!

I've always pronounced Leica as "Like-uh". The other day, as I was birding at a local park, a fellow asked if he could take a look through my "Leek-uh" binoculars. I was rather shocked... I had never heard this pronounciation before.

Just to settle the issue in my own mind, what is the correct way to say Leica?

Best wishes,
Bawko

pronounced 'go buy your own'

[salty]

the way it comes across over here is - 'like a'......

[helenol]

Lee Cha? ;)

[wintibird]

"Like ah" sounds better for german ears then other proposed pronunciations. "Ts-ice" is also correct and Swarovski should not be a problem for english speakers.
Abbe-Koenig would be Abbi Königg (ö like ea in learn) and Schmidt-Pechan something like Shmit-Pekhan (the ch is quite difficult for you, best equivalent would be the ch in Loch Ness).

Greetings from the german speaking part of Switzerland

André

[wintibird]

Good page for any pronunciation problems with german:
http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/pronounce/
It's from the University of Exeter

[henry link]

Andre,

Thank you for the information and the link. Just to be sure, is the "A" in Abbe pronounced like the "a" in cat and the "e" like the "e" in Porsche? Is the "Pech" in Pechan pronounced similar to the English word peck? Is the first syllable in Pechan stressed?

Henry

[Curtis Croulet]

Schmidt-Pechan

In this case I imagined that maybe "Pechan" was French. Glad to have that one clarified.

Henry: The "A" in "cat" is not a common sound in standard European languages. Unless modified by a diacritical mark like an umlaut, it's usually what we would call a "broad A" sound. In the late 15th & early 16th Centuries, English underwent the "great vowel shift," giving us vowels that are used by nobody else. More recent history has caused vowel sounds in "network American" English and RP (or BBC) English to diverge in some instances.

[Highway Man]

O.K then, how does one pronounce "Sabines"? (Says he, wandering off at a bit of a tangent).

Regards

Ken

Sab's Gull ;)

[Adey Baker]

What about 'EOS' and 'APO/Apochromatic?'

EOS stands for Electrical Optical System but do you pronounce it as a word or the individual letters and is Apo A-po or Appo?

[Adey Baker]

Sab's Gull ;)

Or 'Kittiwake' as someone replied before to this question!

[Swissboy]

Andre,

Thank you for the information and the link. Just to be sure, is the "A" in Abbe pronounced like the "a" in cat and the "e" like the "e" in Porsche? Is the "Pech" in Pechan pronounced similar to the English word peck? Is the first syllable in Pechan stressed?

Henry

Henry,

the A in this case is pronounced like the u in but, the e of Abbe like the first e in electricity. I think you are correct with your suggestion for Pech = peck. But I am not sure about which syllable is stressed, I don't think I have ever heared that name pronounced. I have only seen it written. I suppose, however, the second syllable is stressed, with the a again like the u in but, however drawn out. Thus more like in father.

André's suggestion for the ö in König is only an approximation. There is probably no comparable sound in English. I think the u in murder comes closer than the ea in learn. As ö is the same as oe, if you know how to pronounce Goethe, then you have it for König as well!

[Renze de Vries]

This fellow (?) Pechan is obviously the most mysterious so far. Where was he from: France, Germany? Was he an independent scientist or an employee of some optical lab? Did he invent a prism with roughly the same characteristics as the one invented by Schmidt? Or did these two collaberate on one and the same prism? Or yet another possibility, was his invention maybe a modification of the Schmidt? Or the other way around? I mean, who was Pechan?

Renze

[Pinewood]

I found a technical item listing Schmidt and Pechan prism types separately, which suggests that the Schmidt-Pechan may be a combination of two distinct types:
http://www.photonengr.com/FredSpecifications.pdf

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[bodromarsh]

When I was in college I had several German friends. They taught me that with ie and ei you pronounce the sound of the last letter. Therefore, Zeiss is "Zice", Leica is "lie-kuh" (not like-uh, listen where you make the syllable), and Steiner is "Stiner." All hard "I" sounds. There is a German knife maker, Schlieper, which is pronounced "shleeper," like sleeper.

I am not a German linguist, but these pronunciations will serve you well in the English speaking world.

[Curtis Croulet]

and Steiner is "Stiner."

"Shtiner" in modern standard German.

[John Traynor]

When I was in college I had several German friends. They taught me that with ie and ei you pronounce the sound of the last letter. Therefore, Zeiss is "Zice", Leica is "lie-kuh" (not like-uh, listen where you make the syllable), and Steiner is "Stiner." All hard "I" sounds. There is a German knife maker, Schlieper, which is pronounced "shleeper," like sleeper.

I am not a German linguist, but these pronunciations will serve you well in the English speaking world.


For $1600 the clerk will let you call it anything you want!

[Grousemore]

For $1600 the clerk will let you call it anything you want!

Nice one :clap:

[marcus]

In this case I imagined that maybe "Pechan" was French. Glad to have that one clarified.

Henry: The "A" in "cat" is not a common sound in standard European languages. Unless modified by a diacritical mark like an umlaut, it's usually what we would call a "broad A" sound. In the late 15th & early 16th Centuries, English underwent the "great vowel shift," giving us vowels that are used by nobody else. More recent history has caused vowel sounds in "network American" English and RP (or BBC) English to diverge in some instances.
C'mon, there's a lot of English words with that sound, 'Pat that fat rat' for instance. And the first a of 'standard' is another one.
And I always thought that Pechan was like the ice cream with butter. Or is it 'Pee-chan' the chan like 'cherry children'?

[Curtis Croulet]

Sorry to have worded this confusingly. The "A" in "cat" is indeed a very common vowel sound in standard dialects of English (the term "dialects" here includes widely used varieties such as RP/BBC English and Network American English), and it has been since roughly 1500, but -- AFAIK -- other Indo-European languages don't use that vowel sound, nor do they use such diphthongs as the "I" sound in "iris." Perhaps someone here can clarify this with respect to the Celtic languages and the northern Germanic group (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and Icelandic). About non-IE languages I'm less certain, except that I can definitely say that the "A" in "cat" is not present in Japanese, either.

[hinnark]

Sorry to have worded this confusingly. The "A" in "cat" is indeed a very common vowel sound in standard dialects of English (the term "dialects" here includes widely used varieties such as RP/BBC English and Network American English), and it has been since roughly 1500, but -- AFAIK -- other Indo-European languages don't use that vowel sound, nor do they use such diphthongs as the "I" sound in "iris." Perhaps someone here can clarify this with respect to the Celtic languages and the northern Germanic group (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and Icelandic). About non-IE languages I'm less certain, except that I can definitely say that the "A" in "cat" is not present in Japanese, either.

Hi Curtis,

miles away from topic (binoculars) but I like this linguistic stuff. Well, the sound of an "A" in cat and the diphtong "I" also exit in German but the writing is different.

BTW: Z-ice and Ly-sha sound like new HipHop/Gangsta stars aren´t they? But beware of Shavorski. I´m not sure about his business... :eek!:

Steve

[Curtis Croulet]

Hi Curtis,

miles away from topic (binoculars) but I like this linguistic stuff. Well, the sound of an "A" in cat

Can you give an example?

and the diphtong "I" also exit in German but the writing is different.
Steve

Of course -- how could I forget?! The current objects of our affection -- Zeiss and Leica -- use this sound.

[hinnark]

Curtis,

I saw your request just now.

The "A" in cat sounds like the "E" in German "Kette" (trans. chain).
Most dictionaries content a table of phonetic symbols and examples of pronunciation for both languages.

BTW Engl. "ice" is Germ. "Eis" with the same meaning and pronunciation. In fact the relationship between German and English language is quite close. But only the fewest in both languages know that the relationship of English with the dialects of Northern Germany is even closer. The similarities are palpable if you compare for example vocabulary and grammar of both: English and what they call "Plattduetsch". I think some of you would be amazed if you ever have the opportunity to hear a native speaker of the German North Sea region. That´s where the Anglo-Saxons lived before they went to Britain in the 5th century. For more information take a look at this side: http://www.plattmaster.de/plattoew.htm

Steve

[Curtis Croulet]

When I took German in college (three semesters, 40+ years ago), we had a reading in Plattdeutsch which did, indeed, sound amazingly like English. I understand that modern Frisian is even closer.

I think you and I may pronounce "cat" differently.

[hinnark]

I think you and I may pronounce "cat" differently.

Yes, there are different pronunciations and AFAIK there is also a difference between US and British English here. However, there are correspondents for all of them in German like e.g. the "A" in Germ. "hat" (trans. has). BTW in Plattdeutsch the word is Katt.
Slowly, very slowly, coming back to topic I´m asking myself what´s the origin of "bird" because there is no similar word in German (Vogel) or Plattdeutsch (Fagel). Perhaps this comes from French (the language, not Alan of course), the other great influence of the English language?

Steve

[birdman]

But only the fewest in both languages know that the relationship of English with the dialects of Northern Germany is even closer. The similarities are palpable if you compare for example vocabulary and grammar of both: English and what they call "Plattduetsch".
I've never heard of "Plattduetsch", but I do know that the academics consider English's closest relative as being Frisian, and from the geography you mentioned, I guess we must be talking about the same thing, or something very similar.

I've mentioned this elsewhere before, but there was a program (called Mongrel Nation) on one of the satellite channels here in the UK, presented by Eddie Izzard (!).

In one of the programs, Eddie went over to Friesland, to find native Frisian speakers.

As an experiment, they held a conversation where Eddie spoke entirely in English, and the Friesian farmer spoke entirely in Frisian, and they was enough mutual understanding to enable the buying and selling of a cow.

(Apparently, if I've got my spelling correct, the Frisian for "What time is it?" is "Was is der clock?")

[birdman]

Slowly, very slowly, coming back to topic I´m asking myself what´s the origin of "bird" because there is no similar word in German (Vogel) or Plattdeutsch (Fagel). Perhaps this comes from French (the language, not Alan of course), the other great influence of the English language?

SteveThis is a very interesting question.

I had a quick Google, and came up with this...

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bird#Etymology

... which only serves to add to the mystery.

The only languages, where examples are shown, that have similar "bird" words are Esperanto (birdo) and Volapük (börd)!

[birdman]

Here's some more...

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=b&p=10

It suggests that "bird" is derived from OE bridd (meaning young bird) and has no Germanic cognates.

Also that OE for "bird" was more commonly fugol.

[Edward]

Curtis,

I saw your request just now.

The "A" in cat sounds like the "E" in German "Kette" (trans. chain).
Most dictionaries content a table of phonetic symbols and examples of pronunciation for both languages.



Hi Steve,

It's very interesting you should mention this. I used to live and teach in Germany, and I remember how the kids used to pronounce the English word "cat" to rhyme with the first part of the German Kette as you say. This jarred on my ears as a native English speaker and I soon had them ditching this pronunciation. In my variety of English "cat" and "Ket(te) do not rhyme at all but I suppose in the fast disappearing RP they do.

Birdman, my first exposure to Plattdeutsch was in Thomas Mann's Buddenbrooks and it took a bit of getting used to. It's also very close to but distinct from modern Dutch (although in my experience the Dutch for some reason don't like you drawing attention to the very close linguistic links between German and Dutch). My landlady in Germany grew up speaking Platt and still swore in Platt, which always delighted me no end.

I went to a lecture about Frisian recently, Birdman. It was fascinating but the average speaker of English wouldn't get much at all from listening to spoken Frisian.
Just to go off topic even further, the following two sentences are written identically in English and which other major language? (but pronounced differently of course)
My pen was in my hand
My hand is in warm water

E

[birdman]

I went to a lecture about Frisian recently, Birdman. It was fascinating but the average speaker of English wouldn't get much at all from listening to spoken Frisian.
That doesn't surprise, to be honest.

The reason that buying and selling a cow was chosen, was that the words were all likely to be "old" - cow, milk, brown etc.

There was no obvious grasping of the actual words, but sufficient similarity in the context to allow some level of communication.

Similar, I guess, to your examples... Icelandic, perhaps?

That's my (at least semi-serious) stab in the dark, although not enough eths and thorns in my view!

[birdman]

(Somewhat frustratingly, I have to leave this extremely interesting subject, and I won't be able to log on for a while, but I would perhaps suggest that it has moved so far from the original topic that it might deserve moving into Ruffled Feathers?)

[Curtis Croulet]

"Bird": I have learned that "bird" was "brid" in Old English, the letters being reversed (metathesis) in the 15th century. As noted here, "bird" or "brid" have no cognates in other Germanic languages, or -- AFAIK -- any other Indo-European language. The site I was looking at, Etymology Online, dismisses the idea that "brid" is related to "brood" and "breed."

[Edward]

Icelandic is wrong, Birdman, but I was touched that you considered a language spoken by 300,000 souls at the edge of the world a major language ;-) Keep guessing. It would be good to get this thread moved now it's moved well off topic. Or else someone start up a languages thread in RF.

E

[hinnark]

Birdman,

thank you for the links. If there is a connection to bridd (the one who´s breeding?) this sounds not far away from "to breed" which has a relationship to German "brüten" which is of the same meaning.

Edward,

My pen was in my hand
My hand is in warm water

here comes the translation into German:

Mein Schreiber war in meiner Hand
Meine Hand ist in warmen Wasser

and Plattdeutsch:

Min Stift weer (pron. like were in Engl.) in min Hand
Min Hand is in warm woter

Of course there are also varieties in Platt. The word pen is of French-Latin origin so there´s no relationship to German.

Steve

[Edward]

Birdman,

thank you for the links. If there is a connection to bridd (the one who´s breeding?) this sounds not far away from "to breed" which has a relationship to German "brüten" which is of the same meaning.

Edward,

My pen was in my hand
My hand is in warm water

here comes the translation into German:

Mein Schreiber war in meiner Hand
Meine Hand ist in warmen Wasser

and Plattdeutsch:

Min Stift weer (pron. like were in Engl.) in min Hand
Min Hand is in warm woter

Of course there are also varieties in Platt. The word pen is of French-Latin origin so there´s no relationship to German.

Steve


Moin moin Steve

Thanks for the translations, I'm impressed that you can rattle off a translation into Platt! My question remains though. The sentences:
My pen was in my hand
My hand is in warm water
are written identically in English and which other language? I know that it's the mother tongue of some BF members.

E

[Blackstart]

Just to go off topic even further, the following two sentences are written identically in English and which other major language? (but pronounced differently of course)
My pen was in my hand
My hand is in warm water

EHi Edward-

If it were "mijn" and not "my", it would be Dutch, I think.

Since it's not Dutch, it must be Afrikaans.

-Adam

[Edward]

Hi Edward-

If it were "mijn" and not "my", it would be Dutch, I think.

Since it's not Dutch, it must be Afrikaans.

-Adam

Afrikaans it is, Adam, spot on. I should have offered a prize, such as a two-week all expenses paid birding trip to the land where it is spoken. Ah too late now, never mind.

E

[didnotbat]

I always thought the pronunciation of "Swarovski" was fairly obvious


Gosh you have me worried now. I've always pronounced the full name as SVAR-OFF-SKEE yet tend to use SWARO for the diminutive.

david

[Swissboy]

Gosh you have me worried now. I've always pronounced the full name as SVAR-OFF-SKEE yet tend to use SWARO for the diminutive.

david

The emphasis should be on the middle syllable, with only a short e at the end, like in sticky.

[unasimple]

Leitz Camera Action (Lights Camera Action!)
What an appropriate name for a camera that was derived from the film industry.

Also if you've bothered to post about how you think a name should or should not be pronunced in a thread ABOUT PRONUNCIATION without actually bothering to indicate what pronunciation you use, please give youself a smack. That includes saying something like "I always thought it was obvious..." etc.

I will still call Nikon (NIGH-kon) because I have never personally heard anyone else use a different pronounciation.

Thanks.

[FrankD]

I find it funny that this thread was pulled up now. I still get a kick out of some of the comments in the beginning of it. I know so many folks who mispronounce Swarovski that it isn't even funny.

[ceasar]

I looks alot like Polish to me, or possibly another western slavic language like Slovak or Czech with the accent on the middle syllable and a long e on the end syllable. The short e may be caused by Austrian influencing the pronunciation. Of course, I am influenced by my heritage (Polish on the maternal side of my family) and the region I grew up in which was heavily settled by immigrants who spoke the above western slavic languages or dialects. My mother, (2nd generation Polish) spoke Polish fluently and could converse in Slovak and understand Unkrainian and Russian. (Our Lithuanan neighbors spoke a foreign language according to mom. No one could understand them.) Alas, I learned only some rudementary Polish suitable for understanding warnings of impending discipline, but I do have friends my age who can still speak it acceptably.

When I was in the Army we had 2 lads in our barracks who were born in the Netherlands and emigrated to the US when young. One was from Rotterdam and the other from Friesland. They could not understand each others dialect. When the one from Friesland spoke slow, simple sentences we english speakers could understand him.

Naz drovya,
Bob B (: