Best time to make a garden pond?

[Dave Adshead]

Hello,

For some time, I've been thinking of building a garden pond. I've a bird bath at the present time, and I get dozens of birds every day in it, so what will a pond do?.
Is there a best time of year to build one, I think I'm going to have one without a pump or filteration system and let nature run its course. But will the water be stagnent and smell, is there a minimum size for this type of pond.
Will this type of pond attract mossies.
Basically, I'm going to dig a hole and line it with a pond liner and add a few plants and let the fauna come naturally.
Can anyone please advise me of any pitfalls?
Thank you in anticipation
Best wishes
Dave

[Jos Stratford]

Is there a best time of year to build one?

Best time is now, otherwise you might change your mind! Also I think Autumn is probably not a bad time, as it lets the pool settle down before the pool springs to life in spring.

Think I'm going to have one without a pump or filteration system and let nature run its course. But will the water be stagnent and smell?

If well planted and at an 'equilibrium', then it should not be either stagnant or smell. You might have problems with algal growths sometimes - in my garden, I have two small pools, one never gets algal growths, the other always does in late summer! However, neither small and both are full of life - just need to rake of the growth every week, under is crystal water.

is there a minimum size for this type of pond.

In essence, no. But bigger the better. Depth is more an issue - if part of the pool is deep enough to not freeze, it is an advantage. More a problem in this part of the world where ice can be a metre thick or more. I think both my pools freeze to the bottom, but a thick sludge layer protects all the overwintering snails, bugs et al, as they never seem to die!

Will this type of pond attract mossies.

Maybe, but the larva are important food for some pool critters

Basically, I'm going to dig a hole and line it with a pond liner and add a few plants and let the fauna come naturally.

Fairly good approach - lots will come in with the plants you bring (try to get from local water courses, rather than shops, I would say). In addition to the small pools in my garden, I also excavated some 25 metre long pools on my land last autumn - iit is quite staggering how well vegetated they already are and full of water beetles and etc


Can anyone please advise me of any pitfalls?

You might fall into the pool if you come home drunk!

[TonyC]

Watch out for Duckweed. A friend gave us some aquatic plants and I didn't wash off all the Duckweed. We went away for a week to come back to a bright green covering of all the water surface and I've struggled to get rid of it ever since :(

[Dave Adshead]

Hi Jos,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, yes I've been going to dig one for some months now, the garden is a decent size and it should easily fit in.
My biggest fear is the youngsters who live and play on the street, access to my back garden is just a matter of walking down the drive, I've no gate. I'm terrified that they will decide to explore and fall in. So first thing is a gate, but thats no problem.
It wont be the first time I fallen into something though.

Tony,
Yes, that green horrible stuff, could that come naturally?

Best wishes
Dave

[jurek]

When you are away on a holiday? ;)

[Stranger]

Re pond attracting mossies
We put in a small pond earlier this year and found that within days it had lots of mossie larvae.We put six golden orfe in and the larvae vanished.
We have noticed that we have not had as many mossies in the house this year and believe it is because the pond is encouraging them away from their usual breeding area and the fish are eating the larvae.

[gillian]

We have a small pond dug in Feb '03 and it has settled down really well. We have not put fish in it as we wanted to leave it to nature!

We have frogs and this summer a pair of newts too to say nothing of mayflies, waterbaotmen etc.

We bought some plants the first year and we do have to keep cutting them back but apart from that it keeps pretty well.

Glad to hear you are sorting out the safety angle first as there have been some terrible cases.

So dig away and enjoy

Gillian

[Jos Stratford]

Yes, that green horrible stuff, could that come naturally?


To an average garden pond, I'd guess relatively low chance. If you get visiting mallards or the like, they could bring it on their feet. Again, it's not so serious, though neither of my garden pools have the stuff, nor the excavated pools, I have several hectares of flood forest which is full of the stuff, yet has no impact (I believe) on the wildlife. Just means you will be doing a lot of scooping out!

[MarkA]

Hi Dave

Here's a useful link
http://www.beautifulbritain.co.uk/pond_pages.htm

Good luck

Mark

[Dave Adshead]

Mark,

Thanks, for that, I've saved that link and will spend some time reading it.

[MarkA]

Mark,

Thanks, for that, I've saved that link and will spend some time reading it.

Hi
Hope it was useful, another one here: http://www.wigglywigglers.co.uk
for supplies - check out their pond construction kit.

Some comments I didn't have time to make on Friday:

Siting
Ponds should be sited in full sun and away from overhanging trees.

Fish
If you want a wildlife pond, do not stock it with goldfish of any variety. They are swimming vacuum cleaners and will strip the pond of anything that moves, not just mossies. And you'll probably lose them to herons anyway.

Plants
Use only native species, particularly for oxygenating. Many non-natives are highly invasive and can cause serious problems if they escape into the wild.

Access
When building your pond, include an area of hard standing (paving or decking) along one side - access for maintenance and "pond-dipping".

Maintenance
Remove duckweed and fallen leaves with a fish net as-and-when, and compost. Avoid contaminating nearby watercourses with duckweed.
In November, bale out two-thirds of the water and replace with fresh, preferably rainwater.

Finally, if you're interested in joining a forum dedicated to wildlife gardening, you will be welcome here:http://gardenwildlife.co.uk//phpBB2/index.php
Small but growing.

All the best
Mark

[Dave Adshead]

Mark,
Thanks, for the above infomation.
Siting in full sun or not, was going to be my next question. I've a fairly large garden, I would say it's about 27m long and 17m wide, and faces SW.
However my neighbour has about 8 poplar trees, and a few chestnut, hawthrone. He is on the southern side, so at this time of year my garden is not in full sun shine until around 11.ish till its clear of the poplars.
Then at the bottom of the garden, I have a hedge of conifer, which acts as a sound barrier, because on the other side of them is an electric train set i.e. east coast main line.
On the northern boundry I have a Rowen tree, and just a few million miles to the right of that, the sun sets.
From this it appears as if the garden is always in shadow, but its not, we get plenty of sun.And from what you say Mark, I've got to pick the right spot.
Best wishes
Dave

[Jos Stratford]

As goes siting, the general advice is a sunny postioin, but a shaded pool is not a disaster - if overhung by trees, just means you will need to scoop leaves out (or put a net over when the leaves begin to drop).

One of my two garden pools is in a sunny spot, but directly overhung by trees - hasn't been a problem. The biggest expanse of water I have is the flooded forest - which is totally covered by trees (of course!).

I'd say, put in in a sunny position if possible, but if a few trees about, don't worry too much. Better the shade, than nothing,

[Isurus]

For those thinking of a pond or with a pond who want fish either because of mosquito larvae worries or just to add some interest please allow me to recommend the rudd in its golden form. Goldfish as has been pointed out eat everything and anything and orfe whilst doing a similar job to rudd grow much larger, ideally need well oxygenated water and are very skittish. Rudd stay small, are very pretty surface feeders and will knock off any mosquito issue. They are also a british native for those of you who like their wildlife gardens authentic.

In terms of design I'd recommend including as large a shallow ledge at one end as possible with easy sloping access in and out (a beach if you will). This can be planted with marginals to belnd in with the rest of the garden but will allow exit points for amphibians and grass snakes as well as any unfortunate hedgehogs (which are surprisingly common victims of rubber lined ponds).

[Euan Buchan]

you could try and get a shell shaped one lik mine came from here's mine before we dug it out

[Dave Adshead]

I think, we have decided on a pond made with a flexible membrane liner, rather than a preformed plastic moulding. This, is so I could make a beach type entry, I looked at some of the preformed ones, and none of them had a gentle slope. We do get a pair of hedgehogs in the garden every night.

On Sunday we visited a couple of water garden centres in the Doncaster area, pretty poor what they had to offer, came home empty handed to say the least. So, I got the yellow pages out and found a few more, yet to pay them a visit.
Dave

[MarkA]

Mark,
Thanks, for the above infomation.
Siting in full sun or not, was going to be my next question. And from what you say Mark, I've got to pick the right spot.
Best wishes
Dave

Indeed. As they say, location is everything. The tolerances are fairly broad, but its worth giving it some thought - you don't want to be doing the job twice. You should aim for at least six hours of full sun a day; from the description you give of your garden that shouldn't be a problem, which leaves you free to consider aesthetics.

"Natural" style ponds look best sited at the lowest point of the garden (if there is one) but not if it creates practical problems. "Practical" outweighs "aesthetic" every time. I infer from your description that the house is at the NE end of the garden? If so, consider placing the pond fairly close to the house - this should make the most of available sunlight, and allow you the pleasure of viewing the pond from your living room/kitchen/wherever. In this case, a more formal, geometric layout may be appropriate. Of course a lot depends on what else you've got in your garden, and what your future plans are.

With regards to suppliers, I really do think you should check out the "wigglywigglers" site I posted above. Daft name, but they seem to know what they're talking about.

Regards
Mark

[MarkA]

For those thinking of a pond or with a pond who want fish either because of mosquito larvae worries or just to add some interest please allow me to recommend the rudd in its golden form.

Rudd - that's a new one on me, Isurus. Worth keeping in mind. Any info or links on care/biology/availability?

Obliged
Mark

[Isurus]

Rudd - that's a new one on me, Isurus. Worth keeping in mind. Any info or links on care/biology/availability?

Obliged
Mark

funnily enough I've struggled to find any links on care - here's some pics from the goldfish bowl comparing golden and silver rudd to the orfe variants.
http://www.thegoldfishbowl.co.uk/atlas.cgi?a=Coldwater&f=Cyprinidae+Orfe+Rudd

They are very easy (comparable with goldfish for ease in a pond I'd say) and form attractive small shoals. We had a self-sustaining population in our large pond for 20 years. Any good pond fish stockist will either have them or will be able to get them. There are a few stockists/breeders who cultivate a form which is a much deeper red than the standard gold and I prefer this form if you can trace it.

[MarkA]

funnily enough I've struggled to find any links on care - here's some pics from the goldfish bowl comparing golden and silver rudd to the orfe variants.
http://www.thegoldfishbowl.co.uk/atlas.cgi?a=Coldwater&f=Cyprinidae+Orfe+Rudd

They are very easy (comparable with goldfish for ease in a pond I'd say) and form attractive small shoals. We had a self-sustaining population in our large pond for 20 years. Any good pond fish stockist will either have them or will be able to get them. There are a few stockists/breeders who cultivate a form which is a much deeper red than the standard gold and I prefer this form if you can trace it.

Thanks for that. One for the database.
Mark

[Euan Buchan]

Got a frog in my pond now was just feeding the fish when I saw this thing moving so I took a picture of it

[delia todd]

Got a frog in my pond now was just feeding the fish when I saw this thing moving so I took a picture of it

That's brilliant Euan. Didn't take it long did it.

D

[Isurus]

Got a frog in my pond now was just feeding the fish when I saw this thing moving so I took a picture of it
Has anyone had any luck with toads spawning in their ponds? We see a few toads about but never get spawn (can't complain as we have newts and frogs but toads have always been my favourites).

http://static.flickr.com/22/30235158_86a3dbfe8c.jpg

[Euan Buchan]

hmm mebe it was a Toad not a frog in my garden the eyes were like that picture

[Isurus]

hmm mebe it was a Toad not a frog in my garden the eyes were like that picture

Euan I think the easiest way to tell is whether the skin is warty and dry looking (like in the picture)(toad) or smooth and wet looking (frog). Chances are if it was in your pond at this time of year it was a frog as toads tend to like drier places outside of spawning times. Of course either is possible at any time. Keep up the good work with the pond!

[Richard Bryce]

Watch out for Duckweed. A friend gave us some aquatic plants and I didn't wash off all the Duckweed. We went away for a week to come back to a bright green covering of all the water surface and I've struggled to get rid of it ever since :(

Bit late, but nevertheless, having just spotted this....

I wouldn't worry too much about duckweed. It's actually good for your pond. It feeds off the excees minerals in the water and in so doing helps keep down blanket weed. The surface of your pond also needs to be at least one third covered (preferable two-thirds) to prevent sunlight promoting blanket weed, and duckweed does this job well until you get other plants established. Just skim the duckweed off every few weeks to get rid of the 'bloated' so allowing fresh to grow to leach more excess minerals from the water. Toss the duckweed on to the compost heep, or directly onto the garden. It makes an excellent fertiliser/mulch. Blackbirds love chucking it about too (in the US duckweed is harvested as a high protein chicken feed).

Another way to minimise blanket weed, and so duckweed growth too, is to drop barley hay into the water. It will need replacing every so often and is a costlier option.

Also resist the tempatation to fill ponds with tap water - it takes years for duckweed/barley hay to get rid of the excess minerals. Let the pondfill naturally, hence the best time to dig is autumn or now, before the summer droughts..

[willowa]

you could try and get a shell shaped one lik mine came from here's mine before we dug it out


Euan

Did you get your pond after all??????

[willowa]

We built a pond last spring with a gravel edge. We got frogs within two weeks. Then we had toads then in August we got a newt that stayed a few weeks and ate everything that moved. All the Daphnea went and all the bloodworms and mossies. So I would`nt worry to much. We have no filter just plants. We get blanket weed but keep pulling it out by hand.
Toads only go back to the pond where they hatched if thats the word. Our pond is only about 6ft X 5ft and at the deepest part 2ft. I saw a frog or toad at the bottom about two weeks ago. The birds love it even the bluetit bathes in the shallow gravel edge.