Minox BD 8.5x43 BR Asph. Argon filled etc.

[pezzer]

So I've gone ahead and purchased a pair of these to check out. I was inches from going for the Kahles 8x43 instead but the owner and a rep. at KB Cameras in Bellingham both had incredible things to say about this Minox (versus Kahles and others). Given that the Minox was slightly less ($549.00) they certainly didn't seem to have a sales agenda other than A pair of binos.

Anyone have exposure to this model and have remarks? I'll also welcome remarks on the Kahles (which I liked quite a bit in the store viewing).

[barry robson]

Can't help with the 8.5x43, but I've had a pair of Minox 10x52,s for just over a year now and have found them excellent value for money with a crisp, sharp, neutral image. I had the eye cups changed from the old plastic method of raising them to the new steel ball bearing system which made a lot of difference, as the old system was too soft and the cups were easily pushed down. I sent them to Minox in (in England) for the change over on the Tuesday and had them back by Friday - fantastic service! Only complaint is the weight - they are a bit heavy after a day up on the Fells lugging them around plus a (fab) Zeiss 65mm scope and tripod combo. But then the solid construction did mean that when I accidently dropped them onto the quarry tiled kitchen floor all they suffered was a small dent to the casing.

Minox in England (Dave Morgan, www.dave.morgan.minox.co.uk is always interested in any feedback and very helpful

Good birding

Barry

[solentbirder]

I think the current Minox range is quite under-rated. I have the 10x58 ED which I bought for astronomy and low-light use. It's very impressive with a beautiful easy view that's very natural. I'd be interested to hear what you think of the 8.5's when you've had a chance to test them (they've been hovering on the edge of my wish-list for a while !).
Good luck.

[matt green]

had a play with the 8.5's a couple of months ago at cley,they are very similar to the leica trinovid's opticly.they have an outstanding field of view and good close focus.the trouble with this price range is the close proximity of trinovid range and nikon se etc,not that i am sudgesting the minox bins are a poor substitute.handing might well be prefered in these than said leicas or nikons.

matt

[barry robson]

Interesting note re the similarity to Leica - Minox had a close tie-up with Leica until about the beginning of this year. I'm not sure what the relationship was exactly, but I believe Minox were glad when it came to an end and could go their on way.

Now that Minox have gone into a lower-priced binocular and have just bought out a porro prism range, will they be going up market and bring in a light weight top end bino to compete with Leica, Zeiss etc?

Will Dave at Minox read this and let us all know?

Barry

[pezzer]

I haven't yet received my new Minox but will surely post my impression of them when they come (which should be tomorrow). I have read at least one post that laments their limited FOV at 315ft/1000. While I see that this is somewhat narrow compared to other lines, I will reserve judgment until I hold and play with this new pair. At $549.00 US they seem a very reasonable offering for a product that some feel is just a small step below a Leica. If I do not like them i will probably be sending them back in favor of a pair of Kahles 8x.

[barry robson]

Sorry - gave you wrong address for Dave Morgan at Minox UK - it should be www.dave@minoxuk.co.uk.

hope you enjoy them

cheers

B

[davem]

Barry Robson wrote:

'Now that Minox have gone into a lower-priced binocular and have just bought out a porro prism range, will they be going up market and bring in a light weight top end bino to compete with Leica, Zeiss etc?
Will Dave at Minox read this and let us all know?'

well, just have to say that Dave at Minox has read this and will be 100% truthful when I say that I do not know what is happening next. Yes, I've been party to a few ideas etc but as yet no actual new product designs.

The new lightweight 'BLs' had some very good reviews in the popular birding press and the new Porros are due for review in the same magazines shortly, so with the different optical construction of Porros, we are waiting to see what the reviewers have to say. Both models had a very successful BBWF in terms of interest and sales and the Porros were given a very favourable welcome by all who tried them, the incredible depth of field being the overriding comment we received.

With reference to the 8.5x42 aspherics, I realise that the US market does have its price advantages at the moment, but am amazed that the 8.5x42s are being offered at $549.00, almost to the extent, Pezzer, that I'd be tempted to make sure that they were the newer Aspherical model you were buying and not an older non-aspherical model. For reference, the order code (on the box) for the newer aspherical model is 62124 and for the older non-asph model it's 62126.

The comparative FOV is down to the aspherical lenses used in the eyepiece construction - with most binoculars (unless you're going for the very top-end models such as Leica or Swarovski which eliminate this with highest quality glass, prisms and multi-coatings on all surfaces) you will experience some distortion to the edges of the FOV (barrelling). While giving the impression of a large field of view, this area is largely useless as it is out of focus by some degree. Aspheric lenses have been used in camera lenses for many years and now their use in the binoculars enables us to give a flat-field view and cut down this edge distortion by about 68% so you get 68% of this previously distorted area now in focus. The remaining 32% which would still be out of focus to some extent is removed and thus cuts down slightly on the FOV.

This is shown in diagramatic form on www.minoxuk.co.uk (http://www.minoxuk.co.uk/) on the aspherics page.

I've got this thread updated via my email notification, so I'll keep an eye out in case anyone wants to know anything else about the product range and its specifics or where to see / try it in the UK.

ATVB,

Dave Morgan
Product Coordinator
Minox UK.


www.minoxuk.co.uk (http://www.minoxuk.co.uk/)
B (:

[pezzer]

Barry Robson wrote:

'Now that Minox have gone into a lower-priced binocular and have just bought out a porro prism range, will they be going up market and bring in a light weight top end bino to compete with Leica, Zeiss etc?
Will Dave at Minox read this and let us all know?'

well, just have to say that Dave at Minox has read this and will be 100% truthful when I say that I do not know what is happening next. Yes, I've been party to a few ideas etc but as yet no actual new product designs.

The new lightweight 'BLs' had some very good reviews in the popular birding press and the new Porros are due for review in the same magazines shortly, so with the different optical construction of Porros, we are waiting to see what the reviewers have to say. Both models had a very successful BBWF in terms of interest and sales and the Porros were given a very favourable welcome by all who tried them, the incredible depth of field being the overriding comment we received.

With reference to the 8.5x42 aspherics, I realise that the US market does have its price advantages at the moment, but am amazed that the 8.5x42s are being offered at $549.00, almost to the extent, Pezzer, that I'd be tempted to make sure that they were the newer Aspherical model you were buying and not an older non-aspherical model. For reference, the order code (on the box) for the newer aspherical model is 62124 and for the older non-asph model it's 62126.

The comparative FOV is down to the aspherical lenses used in the eyepiece construction - with most binoculars (unless you're going for the very top-end models such as Leica or Swarovski which eliminate this with highest quality glass, prisms and multi-coatings on all surfaces) you will experience some distortion to the edges of the FOV (barrelling). While giving the impression of a large field of view, this area is largely useless as it is out of focus by some degree. Aspheric lenses have been used in camera lenses for many years and now their use in the binoculars enables us to give a flat-field view and cut down this edge distortion by about 68% so you get 68% of this previously distorted area now in focus. The remaining 32% which would still be out of focus to some extent is removed and thus cuts down slightly on the FOV.

This is shown in diagramatic form on www.minoxuk.co.uk (http://www.minoxuk.co.uk/) on the aspherics page.

I've got this thread updated via my email notification, so I'll keep an eye out in case anyone wants to know anything else about the product range and its specifics or where to see / try it in the UK.

ATVB,

Dave Morgan
Product Coordinator
Minox UK.


www.minoxuk.co.uk (http://www.minoxuk.co.uk/)
B (:
I am quite sure that I'm getting the aspherical Minox. I ordered from KB Camera out of Bellingham, Washington. They had the best price. I will check on arrival of the binos today to be sure that I am getting what I expect. More anon...

[barry robson]

Dave is being modest when he says the BLs had some good reviews - The editor of 'Birdwatching' magazine 'was taken aback at how modest the cost was' for the 8x42 and went on to say:
'In daylight the multicoated lenses deliver a lovely natural image and contrast was excellent. In dark understorey they were more than a match for some mid priced models in terms of resolution and brightness. Happily the Minox team have opted for a simple, modern straightforward shape that seemed immediately comfortable in the hand'.

A question for Dave:
Would it be possible to use the polycarbonate barrels used in the BL's in the top of the range models to produce a lighter bin but with the high quality optical performance we love in our aspheric BD/BR's?

Barry

[ranburr]

I have the Kahles in 10x42 and I bought the Minox 10x42s for my best friend of 30+ years. There is virtually no difference in the two except the $50.00 more that the Kahles cost. Both are as good as anything that you can get without spending well over $1,000.00. The one area that the Kahles has a slight edge is in low-light performance. You can still identify targets with the Kahles about ten minutes after the Minox gives out. Not really enough of an issue to worry about. Bottom line, I would not have bought them for my buddy if I they were not of great quality.

ranburr

[barry robson]

Interesting comments and I whole heartedly agrre with the optical quality comments. Also, I have tried Swaros and Leicas and was unhappy with the focus mechanism on both, particularly the Leica - very lumpy and not what I expected from a £900+ bino.

re the light issue, perhaps you should have given the 10x52s a whirl?

A thought - why do all magazines revue 8x models and completey ignore 10x - most Birders I know use 10x

Cheers

B

[pezzer]

Well I got the Minox in yesterday and I'm impressed. Bear in mind that I've been using 8x42 Swift Ultralights for the last 10 years. The Minox balance well in my hands and the image is spectacular. The Chestnut-backed Chickadees that are swarming at our feeder now are glorious. As far as a more restricted field of view I just don't know that I will have a significant issue with this -- most of my birding is spotting particular targets and locking in.

A couple of points: reviewers often subtract pointes from binos that lack a locking diopter and the twist up eye cups with detents. These Minox have neither of these features and I'm not really bothered. I would like to see the eye cups click into the fully extended mode or into the fully collapsed mode, but this is a minor quibble. Also, the objective lens covers seem to have no method of attachment to the barrels when not in use and therefore may become easily lost. Is the thought that they are just not generally used much except when storing the binos? Anyone have a tip on how they manage that one?

Dave from Minox UK expressed some skepticism that I was actually receiving the Asphericals for the $549 price. I can now say with complete confidence that I have indeed received a brand new pair of BR Asphericals for that price and that the customer service was excellent. KB Camera in Washington state.

Final note -- my wife thinks the bins are heavy. I think they feel solid. If I was traveling extra light (backpacking) I might think twice about toting them along but I'd feel that way about virtually any 8 or 10x product. Anyone have a suggestion on a stellar and reasonably priced travel bino?

Cheers.

[barry robson]

I'm in two minds about the weight issue - you're right they feel solid and that you could knock nails in with them, this doesn't make me feel too guilty about the heavy use mine get but as I said in my first posting, after a 10-12 mile hike over the fells lugging the scope, tripod and 10x52 bins I begin to feel that anything that would reduce the weight of the kit would be useful - but still a great bin…

B

[pezzer]

I'm in two minds about the weight issue - you're right they feel solid and that you could knock nails in with them, this doesn't make me feel too guilty about the heavy use mine get but as I said in my first posting, after a 10-12 mile hike over the fells lugging the scope, tripod and 10x52 bins I begin to feel that anything that would reduce the weight of the kit would be useful - but still a great bin…

B

I'm going to try out some different strap options and see if a wider/spiffier strap doesn't cut down on neck fatigue. Do your eye cups twist and lock into place or do they simply twist up or down?

[ranburr]

re the light issue, perhaps you should have given the 10x52s a whirl? A thought - why do all magazines revue 8x models and completey ignore 10x - most Birders I know use 10x

Cheers
B

We wanted to do an apples to apples comparison of the binos. Thus a 10x42 vs a 10x42. Incidentally, we also used Docter 10x42s, and Pentax SP 10x43s in these informal evaluations. Pezzer, go to your local Walmart and purchase yourself a Bino Suspender from "Crooked Horn Outfitters". This will be the best $20.00 that you can spend. You will experience zero neck strain with these and your binos are always available for immediate use.

ranburr

[pezzer]

We wanted to do an apples to apples comparison of the binos. Thus a 10x42 vs a 10x42. Incidentally, we also used Docter 10x42s, and Pentax SP 10x43s in these informal evaluations. Pezzer, go to your local Walmart and purchase yourself a Bino Suspender from "Crooked Horn Outfitters". This will be the best $20.00 that you can spend. You will experience zero neck strain with these and your binos are always available for immediate use.

ranburr
Thanks for the tip!

[barry robson]

Hi Pezzer & Ranburr

Don' have a 'Crooked Horn Outfitter' over here - will look out for one on my next trip to your Fab country (did Washington/Oregon/California this year over a 4 week driving trip).

My bins have twist up mechanism that stays in place beautifully. They originally fittedv with a plastic mechanism that was a real pain - too soft and kept pushing down, but Minox replaced them with the new stiffer system (in 4 days including post!) free of charge and its made a world of difference.

Cheers

B

[ranburr]

Barry, you can buy the bino suspenders direct at www.crookedhorn.com

ranburr

[pezzer]

Hi Pezzer & Ranburr

Don' have a 'Crooked Horn Outfitter' over here - will look out for one on my next trip to your Fab country (did Washington/Oregon/California this year over a 4 week driving trip).

My bins have twist up mechanism that stays in place beautifully. They originally fittedv with a plastic mechanism that was a real pain - too soft and kept pushing down, but Minox replaced them with the new stiffer system (in 4 days including post!) free of charge and its made a world of difference.

Cheers

B
Hi Barry: I'm not sure if my new Minox come with the plastic mechanism you mention or the stiffer version. I do wish that the eye cups had the detents as they rotate out similar to the Pentax DCF-SP. I do find that with repeated placement of the rain cover the eye cups can shift downwards. Having just gotten the binos I'm hesitant to send them off to Germany or wherever just yet! I like them very much and yet I'm still wondering how much I might be missing by having a field of view of 315 feet. I am also wondering why the objective lens covers do not have a decent method of attachment to the barrels. i've put mine in the shipping box for safe keeping as they seem easily lost. Does that jive with your experience?

I feel fortunate to live in Oregon -- just got a report tonight from our local hawk migration and banding station on Mt. Hood and the fellow in charge uo there reported catching a second year Bald Eagle that initially went for the pigeon lure (and made contact) and then was caught in a mist net. This is only the 3rd bald eagle caught at a Hawkwatch International site in the last 20 plus years! When I worked at the site we caught Goldens, but NEVER had a go at a Bald. Unbelievable!!

[solentbirder]

I'd forget about the objective caps if I were you. In fact I've never used them on any binoculars - just something else to delay you spotting a bird.
Regarding the eyecups, on my 10x58 they have a click stop at fully retracted, fully extended + two positions in between, which I find very useful. Pity this isn't used on the smaller binoculars.

Regarding field of view, I find that if binoculars have a good APPARENT field of view, then the REAL field of view (e.g. 315ft at 1000yds) doesn't bother me too much. On the other hand I find a small apparent field of view quite annoying, regardless of the real angular field of view.

Be interested to hear how you rate the apparent field of view on the 8.5's.
Minox don't seem to publish these figures (wish they would !).

Happy viewing !

[davem]

Good morning All,

I'm now back from Germany and have answers or at least suggestions to all points raised over the past few days...

Weight is a prime consideration (compared with the current Aspheric range) for anything currently on the drawing board and we know that this feature will be a priority with any future models.

Objective lens covers are largely useless in everyday life/use, rainguards are easy to flip off the eyepieces but objective lens covers are just a pain, but from what I can gather most users save them for protection while they are in the case and not being used.

If you want a better strap with the Minox bins or ANY pair of bins / camera etc etc, then the Op/Tech range of straps and harnesses - quite simply excellent quality and a range to suit everyone - www.optechusa.com (http://www.optechusa.com/) then Newpro in the UK can either supply, or direct you to a local dealer if you're in the UK. EZ-strap or even the Super Classic Strap are what sells over here for bins and further to that, the harnesses are available in either webbing or an elasticated material.

The new eyecups on the aspherics should simply slide/rotate and stay in place - there is no actual 'click' felt at the top or bottom - if your bins do this then you have the older style eyecups - an easy way to tell - if you fully extend the eyecups and can see 3 sets of 2 parallel plastic grooves running from top to bottom at an angle then you have the older style.

As for the FOV of the bins, please have a look at the PDF file on the minox website under the aspherics section, this gives full technical details but these are ALL lab tested - hence the close focussing of the binoculars is somewhat overstated.

TTFN,

Dave Morgan
Product Coordinator
Minox UK.


www.minoxuk.co.uk (http://www.minoxuk.co.uk/)

[barry robson]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the info Dave, I will look out for an Optech supplier.
Pezzer, forget the objective lens covers more trouble than they are worth but I really don't have a problem with the eye cups - they stay in the full up position and with the amount of rain we have had up here recently, they have been off and on my bins like yo-yo's. FOV I have no idea what it is, but I'm used to it now. Saw loads of Bald Eagles up in the Olympic National Park and along that coast - in fact had 6 in one tree- of all different ages and one outside our motel room in Port Townsend WA - fantastic!

Cheers you all

B

[solentbirder]

....I will look out for an Optech supplier...
B

You can get Optech straps form Warehouseexpress.com .

[barry robson]

Thanks for that Solentbirder, but I'd like to try before I buy.
The weight is not a major problem unless I've been on a bit of a hike. If I'm out for the day on the fells I've got a small rucksack with sketchbook, paints, flask and sarnies, plus the 65mm scope and tripod AND the bins, so I don't want anything too restrictive (as the Optech harness looks - does it go over or under your anorak?) so I'll look in to what's around.

Cheers

B

[Swissboy]

Thanks for that Solentbirder, but I'd like to try before I buy.

You really can't go wrong with those Op-Tech straps. I prefer the E-Z Comfort model over the Classic. Classic has a quick disconnect feature which I don't need and which gives me the feeling it might at some point open inadvertantly. Personally, I feel too restrained with a harness type as I often carry a somewhat heavy camera as well.

But those E-Z Comfort (or Classic) models are one of the greatest inventions in the field of optics accessories! Though, I must admit that the Zeiss straps on the Victory models are very comfortable, too, thanks to their contoured shape

[pezzer]

Thanks everyone for the informative thread about Minox and other stuff. I'll keep checking for more posts on Minox products. I am thoroughly enjoying the 8.5 x 42 BR's for their clarity, color quality and brightness. In particular I am finding their performance in the near and mid distance to be superb. I am impressed with these binos and feel good about the $549.00 I paid for them.

[davem]

Good morning all,

Firstly, we're glad to hear that you're happy with your 8.5x42 asph Minox bins Pezzer - feedback (of any kind) is always good to hear!

With reference to Op/Tech straps and harnesses, I've used some inside knowledge to find out about stockists in the NW for Barry and while the straps are a common item for photo retailers, the harnesses (both webbing and elasticated) seem to be mainly sent out to the main UK 'birding' optics stockists such as Focalpoint of Warrington (01925-730399), Focus Optics near Coventry (01676-540501), Birdnet Optics in Buxton (01298-71844), Warehouse Express (01603 626222) and Cley Spey (01263 740088) in Norfolk.

All of these should do mail order or Newpro UK can supply them - call 01367-242411.

The elasticated harnesses will be best if they are to be used over large winter coats or over much ess clothing in summer as they are both elasticated and fully adjustable. They do not restrict movement at all (apart from stopping your bins bouncing around when running or climbing over difficult terrain!) and should be compatible with most arrays of other optical gear and their associated straps.

Hope this helps,

Dave Morgan.
Minox UK

[barry robson]

Thanks for all the info on the straps - when I've finished fitting our currently gutted kitchen and have some spare time I'll get myself down to Warrington to try them out! At the moment birding confined to what's on the feeders and between our house and our postbox 1/3 mile back down the track!!

Cheers all

B

[Hogjaws]

pezzer,

How are the other optical qualities of this bino? Does it have much CA when viewing challenging objects? How is the apparent depth of field? How is it in low light conditions? Can you do a comparison with some other brand? Also, does it "feel" sturdy?

I am just curious, the Minox sounds like a nice little package. I wonder how it would compare to the Meopta B1.

Thanks,

Hogjaws

[ranburr]

I am just curious, the Minox sounds like a nice little package. I wonder how it would compare to the Meopta B1.
Thanks,
Hogjaws

It compares very well with the Meopta. It is almost a carbon copy of performance to similar offerings from Kahles and Docter.

ranburr

[Wehr]

It compares very well with the Meopta. It is almost a carbon copy of performance to similar offerings from Kahles and Docter.

ranburr


Hope the Meopta/Kahles/Docter are not as bad as the Minox under bright light conditions (sun from where ever).

Walter

[Hogjaws]

Hope the Meopta/Kahles/Docter are not as bad as the Minox under bright light conditions (sun from where ever).

Walter
So Walter,

How bad in bright daylight is the Minox ALT? Do you get ghost images, CA or what? How good or bad is the view?

Hogjaws

[Wehr]

So Walter,

How bad in bright daylight is the Minox ALT? Do you get ghost images, CA or what? How good or bad is the view?

Hogjaws


Hello Hogjaws,

all the Minoxs suffer from tremendous stray-light and CA (ALT or not, even the EDs). I tested a lot of bins in their factory in Wetzlar/Germany and they are all the same scrap. It's really a pity, but I found them useless for me. For example I changed the Minox 15x58 ED with a Docter 15x60 BGA and now I am happy. Please be careful when evaluating the Minox bins. Their drawbacks are not obvious in the dealer's shop, in misty weather or by night, but with sun and in the field they look terrible.

Walter

[solentbirder]

Hello Hogjaws,

all the Minoxs suffer from tremendous stray-light and CA (ALT or not, even the EDs). I tested a lot of bins in their factory in Wetzlar/Germany and they are all the same scrap. It's really a pity, but I found them useless for me. For example I changed the Minox 15x58 ED with a Docter 15x60 BGA and now I am happy. Please be careful when evaluating the Minox bins. Their drawbacks are not obvious in the dealer's shop, in misty weather or by night, but with sun and in the field they look terrible.

Walter

Sorry but I have to dispute this. I own a Minox 10x58ED and it's superb under all conditions. In fact it's one of the best binoculars I've owned (including Zeiss and Leicas).

[Swissboy]

Sorry but I have to dispute this. I own a Minox 10x58ED and it's superb under all conditions. In fact it's one of the best binoculars I've owned (including Zeiss and Leicas).

Does the difference in judgement arise from whether or not one is using the binoculars with spectacles on? I find such problems with other brands.

[solentbirder]

Does the difference in judgement arise from whether or not one is using the binoculars with spectacles on? I find such problems with other brands.

Have a look at this review of the 10x58. I agree with everything the author says (and I used to own a Leica 8x50BA which I've now sold).

http://www.brayimaging.co.uk/Astro/binoculars.html#Minox

[Wehr]

Have a look at this review of the 10x58. I agree with everything the author says (and I used to own a Leica 8x50BA which I've now sold).

http://www.brayimaging.co.uk/Astro/binoculars.html#Minox


There is no way to even think about comparing Zeiss/Leica/Nikon with Minox. Minox expressly claims to offer only middle range bins. And so they are in quality and for most bins in prices until today. But the EDs are definitely to expensive. Everybody who plans to buy a Minox should know this. Knowing/accepting this and buying a Minox - there is nothing wrong.

But

night sky observation, as I said before, is something different.

Walter

[AlbertRoss]

I wonder if this big difference in opinion is something to do with the Minox eyepiece designs not suiting Wehr's eyes ? This could explain why he doesn't like ANY of the minox binos, while others see a different performance. I once borrowed a pair of Zeiss 7x42's for the day and thought they were the worst binoculars I ever used, although other people rave about them; they just didn't suit me at all I think.

It'd be interesting to hear from other Minox owners and whether they are happy or not with their binos.

[ranburr]

Hello Hogjaws,

all the Minoxs suffer from tremendous stray-light and CA (ALT or not, even the EDs). I tested a lot of bins in their factory in Wetzlar/Germany and they are all the same scrap. It's really a pity, but I found them useless for me. For example I changed the Minox 15x58 ED with a Docter 15x60 BGA and now I am happy. Please be careful when evaluating the Minox bins. Their drawbacks are not obvious in the dealer's shop, in misty weather or by night, but with sun and in the field they look terrible.

Walter

Strange, I have found just the opposite to be true of the 10x42s. I have used Minox primarily in bright and sunny TX. They have performed great. It is strange that you mention the Docter 15x60 vs the Minox 15x58. I made the opposite switch that you did. I found that the Docters and Minox 15Xs performed identical during the daylight hours, but the Minox was significantly superior during poor lighting conditions. Personally, I consider Minox to be a tremendous value.

ranburr

[barry robson]

Well,as they say, you pay your money and you make your choice, one mans meat is another man's gravy etc etc.

My Minox 10x52 are a great value bin with (for me) excellent all round performance and I frankly wonder if another £500 (or twice the price) gets you twice the optical performance when you buy a top end Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski. My guess would be not. And as I said in an earlier note, I've tried Leica and Swaros and found their focussing mechanism to be a bit suspect, something I would be very unhappy with at their prices. I think I've got the best value for my budget and my particular requirements and let's be frank, you're not going to get perfection in a pair of sub £500 bins

Cheers

B

[davem]

Hi All,

the verdict of Wehr is very valuable especially as he qualifies it with the sentence...

"...It's really a pity, but I found them useless for me..." with the last 3 words being the key.

For several more independent views from quite a diverse range of varied sources try www.minoxuk.co.uk/reviews.htm

ATVB,

Dave.

[postcardcv]

For several more independent views from quite a diverse range of varied sources try www.minoxuk.co.uk/reviews.htm

That made me smile - not totally convinced that Minox's own website is the place to go to get independant reviews of their bins. I'm not saying that the reviews themselves aren't from independant sources, but I doubt they'll be putting up links to unfavourable reviews.

[matt green]

That made me smile - not totally convinced that Minox's own website is the place to go to get independant reviews of their bins. I'm not saying that the reviews themselves aren't from independant sources, but I doubt they'll be putting up links to unfavourable reviews.
just goes to show how important it is to try the optics you are interested in for yourself.had the oportunity to try some bins out at cley spy over the weekend and found for myself that not all highly rated binoculars can be suited for all individuals,although i agree with everything that has been said about the nikon se's.i look forward to comparing the new minox porro's with opticrons verano bga,either one will be my final choice.

matt

[Wehr]

Hi All,

the verdict of Wehr is very valuable especially as he qualifies it with the sentence...

"...It's really a pity, but I found them useless for me..." with the last 3 words being the key.

For several more independent views from quite a diverse range of varied sources try www.minoxuk.co.uk/reviews.htm

ATVB,

Dave.


Dave,

I would like to emphasize what you and I said. On my opinion it's the only real drawback of Minox. Of course the people at Minox know it very well too. I visit them on regular basis at their centre in Wetzlar (not far away from my home) to see which improvements they are making. Until today they had no chance without blowing up their (price) policy. Finally they offer standard and brand-independent Japanese quality binoculars (sold under various "brands"), adapted to Minox specifications and with some minor individual improvements. But their market prices must not exceed half of the price of the Leicas. But technically spoken they absolutely know how to make top bins.

Walter

[barry robson]

Sorry Walter, I'm missing something here - what is 'the only real drawback of Minox'? Originally you said Minox were 'all made from the same scrap' and complained about 'tremendous stray light and CA' but now you are saying that 'technically they absolutely know how to make top bins'. Do you mean that they know how to make them but are not?

I think they are great - well built and terrific neutral image.

Barry

[Wehr]

Sorry Walter, I'm missing something here - what is 'the only real drawback of Minox'? Originally you said Minox were 'all made from the same scrap' and complained about 'tremendous stray light and CA' but now you are saying that 'technically they absolutely know how to make top bins'. Do you mean that they know how to make them but are not?

I think they are great - well built and terrific neutral image.

Barry


It's all about stray light, reflexes and CA. That's the scrap for me. They are well able to make top bins, but not for this little money within their market segment.

Walter

[solentbirder]

It's all about stray light, reflexes and CA. That's the scrap for me. They are well able to make top bins, but not for this little money within their market segment.

Walter

Again, I have to disagree. My Minox 10x58 ED is one of the best binoculars I've ever used (I've previously used Zeiss 7x45 Night Owl, Zeiss 7x42 classic, Leica 8x50, Nikon 10x42 HG...). I really don't think you can make such a broad statement about the whole range. It honestly sounds like the Minox instruments do not suit your eyes for some reason, but many of us find them excellent (even in comparison to 'top' brands).

[chartwell99]

Dave,
. Finally they offer standard and brand-independent Japanese quality binoculars (sold under various "brands"), adapted to Minox specifications and with some minor individual improvements. But their market prices must not exceed half of the price of the Leicas. But technically spoken they absolutely know how to make top bins.

Walter

I seem to remember a discussion a while back to the effect that Minox binoculars were either designed in Germany but made in Japan, parts from Japan but assembled in Germany or simply rebranded Japan bins. What is the story? The supplied Minox ocular rainguard certainly ooks like a clone of the Eagle Optics Japan-made Ranger version?

[davem]

Hi all,

In response to Chartwell99's question....

Minox binoculars are fully (glass, coatings, housings etc - everything) designed and specified in the German R+D labs by staff with over 50 years of optical design experience. The designs are then taken to the factory in Japan where they are put together as prototypes.

For ease of building and speed of release, if components that match the required standards are already in existence, then these may be used if they are compatible with and meet the required standards for the model in question, if not, then the necessary tools are made, usually at great expense.

So therefore, yes, Minox binoculars are all a German concept, but the finished articles come out of Japan.

ATVB,

Dave.

[solentbirder]

....
So therefore, yes, Minox binoculars are all a German concept, but the finished articles come out of Japan.
....

Thanks for that clarification Dave. I think this explains in part why they're such good value. After many years in the electronics and computing industry, I'm fully confident in the ability of Japanese manufacturers to meet specifications and keep on doing it, unit after unit.

[barry robson]

A pretty unbeatable combo I would have thought - German/Japanese know how in one package. Frankly. I don't really care where they are made - the end package gives me a great bin at an affordable price. If Minox ever decide to go more up-market then I will do my best to afford their product, that's how happy I am with minecurrent bin - and the after sales service has been top-notch (see my earlier notes about replacement eye cups)

B

[chartwell99]

[QUOTE=barry robson]A pretty unbeatable combo I would have thought - German/Japanese know how in one package. Frankly. I don't really care where they are made - the end package gives me a great bin at an affordable price.

I understand that one other factor in the affordable price is the use of BK7 rather than BAK-4 prisms, since the difference between the two is presumably not as critical for use in roof prism bins. Any truth to that, Dave?

[Wehr]

Again, I have to disagree. My Minox 10x58 ED is one of the best binoculars I've ever used (I've previously used Zeiss 7x45 Night Owl, Zeiss 7x42 classic, Leica 8x50, Nikon 10x42 HG...). I really don't think you can make such a broad statement about the whole range. It honestly sounds like the Minox instruments do not suit your eyes for some reason, but many of us find them excellent (even in comparison to 'top' brands).

I have no problem, if you say Minox is o.K. for you.
But here are people who want to know what they can expect from Minox in comparison with top bins. Therefore I gave my statements.
There is definitely something wrong with your experience and/or your demands and/or your ability to judge
in respect of optics, if you put mid class bins on par with Leica and the top bins of Nikon and Zeiss.
Otherwise Zeiss and Leica won't sell a single pair of binoculars with their top prices.
Don't feel offended, but in real life you won't get 100% performance for 50% of the money.

Walter

[Wehr]

Thanks for that clarification Dave. I think this explains in part why they're such good value. After many years in the electronics and computing industry, I'm fully confident in the ability of Japanese manufacturers to meet specifications and keep on doing it, unit after unit.


Sure, the Japanese manufacturers meet the Minox specifications.

Walter

[solentbirder]

I have no problem, if you say Minox is o.K. for you.
But here are people who want to know what they can expect from Minox in comparison with top bins. Therefore I gave my statements.
There is definitely something wrong with your experience and/or your demands and/or your ability to judge
in respect of optics, if you put mid class bins on par with Leica and the top bins of Nikon and Zeiss.
Otherwise Zeiss and Leica won't sell a single pair of binoculars with their top prices.
Don't feel offended, but in real life you won't get 100% performance for 50% of the money.

Walter

I was very specific and stated that the Minox 10x58 ED is one of the best binoculars I've used even compared to 'top' brands. I did not say that ALL Minox binoculars were equivalent to ALL Leicas and Zeiss. I would not make such a broad statement. There is nothing wrong with my ability to judge optics thank you very much (I have 30 years experience as an active bird watcher and astronomer and I have 20/20 vision). However, I judge each case as I find it and I am not blinded by brand names. As for the price of Leica and Zeiss instruments, this is partly due to the higher labour costs in europe and partly due to intentional market positioning. You do not get double the optical performance by paying double. You seem intent on dismissing opinions that do not match your own and now you question whether I am capable of assessing a pair of binoculars.
YES, I AM OFFENDED !

[Wehr]

I was very specific and stated that the Minox 10x58 ED is one of the best binoculars I've used even compared to 'top' brands. I did not say that ALL Minox binoculars were equivalent to ALL Leicas and Zeiss. I would not make such a broad statement. There is nothing wrong with my ability to judge optics thank you very much (I have 30 years experience as an active bird watcher and astronomer and I have 20/20 vision). However, I judge each case as I find it and I am not blinded by brand names. As for the price of Leica and Zeiss instruments, this is partly due to the higher labour costs in europe and partly due to intentional market positioning. You do not get double the optical performance by paying double. You seem intent on dismissing opinions that do not match your own and now you question whether I am capable of assessing a pair of binoculars.
YES, I AM OFFENDED !


You are offended? Sorry, but this is your problem. I don't dismiss your opinion, but practical experience leads to different results, for I'm talking about experience not opinions.
Finally, may be your sample of Minox 10x58 is an unusual good one.

Walter

[John Traynor]

Minox says they are using ED/Fluoride glass in their 58 mm bins and the 8-14 vario. Some of their spotting scopes also employ fluoride.

Download
http://www.minoxuk.co.uk/pdf%20files/Sports%20Optics%20New.pdf
and read about it.

Also...
Can someone explain the advantages of aspheric lenses and, if they are so great, why more manufacturers don't employ them?

TIA...

John

[solentbirder]

Hi John
Cutting out all the jargon, the main practical benefits of aspherical lenses are a flatter field of focus with more even illumination across the field and better sharpness at the edges. I suspect they are more widely used than we know. Nikon often refer to 'field flattener' lenses which may be aspherical elements.
Cheers
SolentBirder

[davem]

'morning all,

not sure from what has been said overnight what needs clarifying but here goes...!

Yes, Fluorite glass is used in the 10x58, 15x58 8-14x40 Vario and 2 of our 4 spotting scopes as John Traynor correctly says. As a simplified rule, Fluorite gass helps dramatically reduce cromatic abberation (by upto 94%) in optical instruments with a magnification over 10x, below this it is of little or no use. There are different grades of Fluorite glass, I know Minox uses the highest (and heaviest grade) but can't remember the industrial designation of it - I don't think it's H5N1, or is that birdflu?? :-O

Solentbirder has Aspherics down to a tee, and is correct that they could be more widely used without the obvious promotion - we have heard from sources that Leica have used them in their new compact Ultravids - don't take this as absolute Gospel though, just what we have heard.

Some buyers of binoculars will buy by brand, therefore the likes of Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Nikon and Opticron (sorry to anyone else who I have forgotten) who have long established and excellent reputations will always score first regardless of price ahead of newcomers such as Minox, who, in the UK especially, have been largely unheard of in the mainstream birding market until the past 2 years in terms of promotion and advertising which puts us anything between 8 and 80 years behind the pack!

Chartwell99, I am unable at present to answer your question regarding the prisms - I'll try to find out.

Hope this is everything for the time being,

ATVB,

Dave.

[pezzer]

pezzer,

How are the other optical qualities of this bino? Does it have much CA when viewing challenging objects? How is the apparent depth of field? How is it in low light conditions? Can you do a comparison with some other brand? Also, does it "feel" sturdy?

I am just curious, the Minox sounds like a nice little package. I wonder how it would compare to the Meopta B1.

Thanks,

Hogjaws

Sorry I've been absent. Hogjaws askes about the Minox I recently purchased. I've noticed zero CA though I've never really noticed CA in other binos much either so I may be a poor judge. The image is very very clear and the focus brings me from a distant slope to a small bird in my front shrubs with ease. Low light they work nicely. These are very solid and attractive binos with an excellent image. I want to get a better case for them, but this is secondary.

I don't know the Meopta B1 but I did view the Pentax DCF?, Kahles, Leica and others and, considering my skills, budget and needs, either the Kahles or Minox were choice options. I chose Minox. I know the Kahles has a nice case (secondary) and very nice optics and a higher price. The Minox is terrific for a mid-upper $500's product. I'm very pleased.

[Hogjaws]

I talked to Eagle Optics about the Minox ALT's. They said the optical view quality is almost the same as Pentax DCF SP, which are very good mid-rane binos.

[bradshrike]

I have a question...

Several of the Minox Roof Bins I've looked through had a decidedly "blue" cast that is quite noticeable compared to the more "neutral" cast of my Leica's... is this designed for more contrast and/or am I the only one who's noticed it?!?!

Thanks,

BA

[ranburr]

I can't say that I have ever notice any blue in the view.

ranburr

[solentbirder]

I have a question...

Several of the Minox Roof Bins I've looked through had a decidedly "blue" cast that is quite noticeable compared to the more "neutral" cast of my Leica's... is this designed for more contrast and/or am I the only one who's noticed it?!?!

Thanks,

BA

No blue cast in my two pairs. In fact I've found the images from Minox bins to be remarkably neutral. I think it's likely we all have a slightly different colour perception though. Most people even have a slightly different colour balance in one eye from the other.

[Otto McDiesel]

Most people even have a slightly different colour balance in one eye from the other.

Dang, so that's what it is! I thought i was crazy...I see more golden and yellow with my right eye, and less color with my left eye, but only in bright sunlight.

[solentbirder]

Dang, so that's what it is! I thought i was crazy...I see more golden and yellow with my right eye, and less color with my left eye, but only in bright sunlight.

Hi Otto,
Yes, we're all different it seems. For me, I see better colour and better contrast with my left eye, but better resolution with my right eye. This is rather frustrating as I'm a keen star-gazer and I look through the telescope with my right eye. Detection of many astronomical objects relies on contrast differences so I know I'm not seeing everything I could. I've tried to look through the scope with my left eye but I just can't do it for long. I wonder if anyone has managed to re-train their vision so the naturally dominant eye is switched over ?
Cheers
B (:

[Hogjaws]

Dang, so that's what it is! I thought i was crazy...I see more golden and yellow with my right eye, and less color with my left eye, but only in bright sunlight.


Otto,

What are your observations on the Minox line of roof prism binoculars?

Hogjaws