Cape Parrot from Kruger NP

[Joern Lehmhus]

in 1996 I observed Cape parrots in the Kruger NP and just now I realized the species has been split into 3 (the subspecies have been given species rank).
I guess the birds I observed should then have been Poicephalus robustus from the range?

But that is described as an inhabitant of montane Podocarpus forests... which the region where I saw them wasn´t. So how much are they really tied to that habitat?

We also observed the smaller and differently colored Brownheaded Parrot, so confusion with that is out of question.

[cuckooroller]

Where in Kruger? A rather large park with a notable north-south extension. I have seen the proposals of a split only originating from parrot breeders and certain groups in South Africa. I do not know what the Fitzpat Inst. of Capetown has to say about it, or if they indeed adhere to this view. According to all current world lists there has been no split as yet and we have Brown-necked Parrot (Poicephalus robustus), with three races, the nominate, fuscicollis, and suahelicus. The nominate is known to range up as far northeast as East Transvaal, and the species is known to range widely to feed leaving therefore their habitat predilection of montane podocarpus. It is conceivable that the nominate gets into the southernmost part of Kruger. However, the more common of the races in Kruger would certainly be suahelicus.

[Mos]

Only P. (r.) suahelicus occurs in Kruger, and only in the far north, where they
associate with Marulas (Anacardiaceae) as Podocarps don't occur there.

P. (r.) robustus occurs some distance outside the park, in Podocarps as you
mention.

In the region they are completely tied to habitat, although the situation
may differ further north.

[Mark Bruce]

Newman's lists suahelicus for the Kruger area but Sasol lists fuscicollis.On the Roberts VII list on the Fitzpat Inst site ( http://www.fitzpatrick.uct.ac.za/docs/birdlist.html ) the new Roberts shows (132)Cape Parrot/Poicephalus robustus and (133)Grey-headed Parrot/Poicephalus fuscicollis but gives both the same Roberts No.362 which seems to indicate that they haven't quite made up their minds on a real split.

[Trevor Hardaker]

Hi there,

The new Roberts Birds of Southern Africa notes the following:

"Cape Parrot previously treated as conspecific with Grey-headed Parrot. Based on morphological, biogeographical and ecological differences, we follow Clancey in treating the 2 spp as separate taxa. Preliminary DNA analyses support the separation."

The bird you saw in the Kruger Park would definitely be P. fuscicollis. The closest that P. robustus occurs is in the evergreen forests of Magoebaskloof quite some distance away.

If you are interested in the latest accepted list of Southern African bird species, you can download it from our website at www.zestforbirds.co.za under the checklists section.

Kind Regards
Trevor

[cuckooroller]

Thanks Trevor,
Your known expertise in southern African birds is very welcome and is something often lacking with relatively few African members on this Forum. It does seem, however, that there is not an univocal view on which races of the pre-split bird may range in Kruger and I have seen suahelicus cited in several web sources.

[Mos]

Based on the above, one can assume what happened. Grey-headed Parrot (east African suahelicus) was first split from P. robustus which became a SA forest endemic after the split. Shortly afterwards suahelicus must have been lumped with west African P. fuscicollis, which occured from Senegal to Nigeria before being lumped with the east African species or race.

Thus, P. (r.) suahelicus became P. f. suahelicus or P. fuscicollis in short. Makes no difference, race suahelicus is the only one that occurs in Kruger.

[Joern Lehmhus]

Thanks for help. So parrots seen in Knysna would still be robustus,I guess then???

[Rasmus Boegh]

To clarify the taxonomy, which seem to cause some confusion:

Three possibilities:

a) One species, P. robustus, with three races (nominate, suahelicus & fuscicollis). This has been the standard until relatively recently when first b, then c was suggested:

b) Two species, first being the localized Poicephalus robustus (no subspecies), second being P. fuscicollis (with race suahelicus). This is the approach suggested by Clancey (who didn't deal with fuscicollis versus suahelicus and therefore didn't suggest that split).

c) Three monotypic species. If relying on the recent genetic survey (which still is very preliminary) this is the correct approach.

As already established the taxon in Kruger is suahelicus - the only question is if you follow approach a (i.e. P. robustus suahelicus), b (i.e. P. fuscicollis suahelicus) or c (P. suahelicus). As stated by Trevor the nearest population of the taxon robustus is in Magoebaskloof west of Kruger. All individuals seen further south (i.e. in SE South Africa) belong in the taxon robustus, too.

[Joern Lehmhus]

Thanks Rasmus!

I guess that means I got my first foreign country Armchair Tick...

[safariranger]

Hi Joern,

You are right. The Cape Parrot has been split, into the Grey-headed Parrot (Poicephalus fuscicollis) and the Cape Parrot (Poicephalus robustus). The former occuring in the northern parts of the Kruger National Park, from Shingwedzi Camp northwards. The Cape Parrot is generally associated with more mountainous terrain, within mistbelts.
So what you would most likely have seen was a Grey-headed Parrot.

Cheers

Robert


in 1996 I observed Cape parrots in the Kruger NP and just now I realized the species has been split into 3 (the subspecies have been given species rank).
I guess the birds I observed should then have been Poicephalus robustus from the range?

But that is described as an inhabitant of montane Podocarpus forests... which the region where I saw them wasn´t. So how much are they really tied to that habitat?

We also observed the smaller and differently colored Brownheaded Parrot, so confusion with that is out of question.

[Trevor Hardaker]

Hi Joern,

I would certainly be VERY interested to hear about any parrot that you may have seen in the Knysna area. There are no known populations of any Southern African parrot in that area, so please let me know what you saw.

Regards
Trevor

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi Trevor,
I have a sketch with a short description, but I am not sure if it is good enough to get an identification, as it was a flyover bird, and just seen once...It was a shorttailed, mainly green bird and I just thought Cape parrot at that time, as in the Sasol Guide it is the only parrot in range.
The only introduced parrot I was aware of for South Africa was Psittacula krameri and it certainly wasn´t that. But probably I am wrong there?

[Rasmus Boegh]

Joern, except for the population in the Magoebaskloof-area west of Kruger, P. robustus is restricted to SE South Africa (as noted in an earlier post) - to be more precise east of Fort Beaufort (in Eastern Cape) to the Karkloof (in KwaZulu-Natal). It is quite rare, if I remember right all estimates have been below 1000 individuals in total. If you saw a short-tailed parrot in e.g. W. Easter Cape or Western Cape it almost certainly would have been an escapee.

[Trevor Hardaker]

Hi Joern,

As Rasmus pointed out, a short tailed Parrot in the Knysna area is almost certainly an escapee.

As to what it could be, I'm not sure without seen some sort of description, and even then, unless the the description was fairly detailed, I'm afraid it would probably be extremely difficult to pinpoint exactly what the bird was that you saw.

Many South Africans keep local and exotic parrot species as pets. I'm not sure what size the bird was that you saw, but one of the most popular groups to be kept as cage birds are the lovebirds, which would seem to fit your short tailed and green description.

Regards
Trevor

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi Trevor , Hi Rasmus,
from the drawing I don´t see what else it could be--either robustus or suahelicus/fusicollis

The description is in german unfortunately but translated it would be as follows:

massive, claycolored head, black area on the head behind base of bill
green belly,
wings and tail black from the underside,
red on wingbend
size like feral pigeon/rockdove

long hand wings
"flat" wingbeats

I remember also that the bill was light coloured, not dark; and that the bird was silent when we saw it ; it was flying along a road towards us, but high up (in hight of treetops) and passing overhead ,before again disappearing in a tree. So this was not a very long sighting...

[Trevor Hardaker]

Hi Joern,

From the description, it seems that there is a good possibility that it probably was Cape Parrot, but I suppose we will never know for sure.

Anyhow, whatever it was, it was almost certainly an escapee. Of course, we could always hope that you have discovered a little relict population of these birds that no-one has ever known about!!

Kind Regards
Trevor
www.zestforbirds.co.za

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi Trevor;
I would also think that´s unlikely then... would be nice though...but Knysna Nature Reserve seems to be visited by so many people , if there was a relict population of that species, sure somebody would have discovered it...

when I made the drawing that day, Cape parrot seemed logical to me as in the Sasol guide it is the one with the distribution on the map coming closest...but I was slightly in doubt because it didn´t reach there-
I think that ´s the reason why I bothered to do a drawing for that one and not for the birds seen in Kruger NP (as that was clearly in the distribution range)...
however, the birds in Kruger NP seemed more grey headed (fits to suahelicus/fuscicollis?Ithink).
However 3 more questions:

Is one of these subspecies/species kept in captivity in South Africa?

Are parrots caught for Pet trade in South Africa?

Are there other species of Parrots that estaplished populations or have observed breeding apart from Ringnecked Parakeet?
(I feel uneasy about this because it was a sighting under good visibility conditions-however I have checked if I could have confused this with any species of Amazon parrot kept in captivity in Germany, but these just do not fit the description-perhaps i am overlooking something?)

[Joern Lehmhus]

I found some answers on the web...
one pdf attached here....

[Trevor Hardaker]

Hi Joern,

Yes, as your pdf document pointed out, Cape Parrots are kept in cavity. In fact, virtually all native species in South Africa have found their way into captivity at some time or another!!

As to other species of parrots breeding, there are no sustainable populations of any other exotic species other than Rose-ringed Parakeet. There are indeed many escapees, especially around the cities, and one can see species from just about anywhere in the world. As I said earlier, our local species, especially lovebirds, are also very popular, and although they don't occur naturally around Cape Town, I often see Rosy-faced Lovebirds flying around!! Very depressing as I know they occur naturally only about 500km north of here!!

Kind Regards
Trevor