Which teleconverter?

[Tannin]

I have a Canon 20D and Canon 100-400 lens. I mostly hand-hold, but will get around to organising a plate to attach it to my didiscoping tripod & head before too long.

I'll eventually get a longer lens (500mm f4? Something in that sort of range, anyway) and a 2X teleconverter, but I'm planning to start off with a 1.4X.

I want:

* Best image quality
* Retain auto-focus on the F4-f5.6 100-400
* Don't really care about the price

Does the Canon actually have better optics than the others? Canon & taped contacts sounds like a possibility. The Tamron seems to get good reports. Maybe that is a better choice? Or Sigma? Tokina is, apparently, the same as the Tamron with a different badge.

Looking forward to any advice people can offer.

Thanks,

Tony

[normjackson]

Just done a scan over at dpreview. The two most likely options seem to be the cheap Tamron 1.4 which will enable you to autofocus on your 100-400 without taping or to get the Canon in readiness for the Canon prime.
Looks as though folks struggle to get a reasonable percentage of keepers with the 100-400 + converter unless conditions are very good : stationary subject & camera, lots of light and contrast etc etc. Perhaps the Tamron will yield a higher percentage of OOF shots while the Canon is more noticeably slooow.
A few threads :
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=12802550
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=8863820
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=8406803
And Brian Drip's tests :
http://www4.pbase.com/drip/lens_tests

[hollis_f]

Just done a scan over at dpreview. The two most likely options seem to be the cheap Tamron 1.4 which will enable you to autofocus on your 100-400 without taping

It will enable you to try to autofocus. The reason the Canon TC disables AF is because the image is half as bright with the TC attached - which is often enough to make it fail totally. With the Tamron TC you'll find that the AF will be a lot slower and will fail more often - especially in low light situations.

Having said that - it will work most of the time. And the Full-Time Manual focussing of the 100-400 means that you'll still be able to focus manually when AF fails without having to flick the switch on the lens back and forth.

[fc3s89]

From the reviews I have read on other the Canon Digital Photography forums. The Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 DG teleconverters are as good as the Canon ones in terms of image quality. The Pro 300 range is Kenko's best quility stuff. They have the advantage of being a dumb teleconverter so they will work with any lens unlike the Canon teleconverters, although this also means the EXIF won't register the proper information which can be downside for some people.

Definitely worth looking into.

[Roy C]

I have the Canon 1.4 tc which I use with a f4 lens (no need to tape pins as AF is maintained). The image quality when used with the 'L' lens is superb and you would be hard pushed to see any drop in quality because of the converter.
I also have a Teleplus 2x (mc7 so not the cheapest) tc but with this one image quality suffers a lot.
I have seen test reports where you can get better results by resizing (enlarging) the image in photoshop rather than by using a tc although I have not tried comparisions myself.

[tirc83]

I have a Canon 20D and Canon 100-400 lens. I mostly hand-hold, but will get around to organising a plate to attach it to my didiscoping tripod & head before too long.

* Best image quality
* Retain auto-focus on the F4-f5.6 100-400
* Don't really care about the price
Tony

I have a Tamron 1.4x and Kenko 2x that I use with my 20D and EF400 f/5.6L.

the 1.4x autofocuses ok but the 2x needs me to switch to manual focusing.

You lose 1 stop of light with the 1.4x and 2 stops with the 2x.

As long as the light is good, the quality is quite good.

The perceived wisdom is that the Canon is better than the 3rd party ones but then again they can be 3 times the cost! - so what would you say if you had paid 3x for a 1.4x ;-)

[compa]

OK ... first let me explain where I'm coming from on this issue:

I own and use the Canon 1.4x and the Kenko-Tokina Pro 300 2x & 3x teleconverters. I use them with various lenses, the 300mm f/4 - the 100-400mm f/5.6 - the 100mm macro. I use this fun stuff on a Canon 20D.

First a statement: The optical quality of the Kenko teleconverters IS NOT below that of the Canon teleconverters. There may be a difference on paper but in practical use, they are basically identical.

Now ... that said, the build quality of the Canon is definitely superior. But so is the price. Teleconverters are small. They don't get knocked about as much as a lens would (not that a lens is knocked about much). I really don't care that much about build quality on a teleconverter.

The biggest difference (after price and appearance) is the presence of a rubber protrusion on the lens side of the Canon models. Reportedly this is to help fight some sort of optical problems. In reality it limits the use of the Canon teleconverters to lenses that have a recessed back element. Because of this rubber thingy Canon teleconverters will not physically couple to many lenses. That means that I can't use my Canon teleconverter with my macro lens or my lesser telephotos. With these, I have to use the Kenko brand glass. And it works great.

In short - I prefer the Kenko teleconveters to those from Canon.

Now, on the subject of the use of teleconverters ... a 400mm lens on a 20D is the 35mm equivilent of a 640mm lens. Add in a 1.4x teleconverter and you have a 896mm telephoto lens. THAT'S HUGE and it requires real skill in its use. A very steady tripod, a remote shutter release and mirror lockup, perhaps a monopod bracing the front of the lens. High shutter speeds help a lot but, with the darker image caused by the teleconverter, are hard to come by.

A telephoto lens with a teleconverter is not simply the same lens with more reach. It is a totally new lens with new rules for its use.

[Bill Atwood]

For the best optical and operatiopnal results get the Canon TC. I don't want to hear any crying in if your 3rd party TC doesn't perform well.

I'll never understand why folks are willing to spend top dollar for big name SLRs and lenses, yet try to cut corners on teleconverters that are only 1/4 the price.

BTW , it seems that most people are not happy with the results from a 1.4x on a 100-400mm.

[Roy C]

I recently bought the canon 1.4 x tc for less than £160 (inc £35 rebate) so the cost need not be that much more than say a kenko pro.

[adrianf]

A cautionary tale. I saw a Sigma X1.4 being sold on Ebay the other day because the owner said that it wouldn't fit the lens he was using. I've heard this somewhere before as well. Moral: check lens/converter compatibility first....

[Chris Oates]

A cautionary tale. I saw a Sigma X1.4 being sold on Ebay the other day because the owner said that it wouldn't fit the lens he was using. I've heard this somewhere before as well. Moral: check lens/converter compatibility first....

Indeed - here is their compatability chart

Sigma converters (http://www.sigma-imaging-uk.com/support/tele-converters_comp.htm)

[Adrian D]

I have just purchased the Canon 100-400 + Canon 1.4x converter, although I haven't had much chance to use it yet! Being able to retain AF with the converter would be an added bonus if it can be made possible.

I have heard about the tape on the pins trick to retain AF and it would be very useful to know how you find out which pins to cover. Is it just a case of trial & error?

[stevo]

Adrian I think this has already been discussed on BF do a search on TC`s.

Steve.

[postcardcv]

The Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 DG teleconverters are as good as the Canon ones in terms of image quality. The Pro 300 range is Kenko's best quility stuff. They have the advantage of being a dumb teleconverter so they will work with any lens unlike the Canon teleconverters, although this also means the EXIF won't register the proper information which can be downside for some people.

This isn't always the case - I got given a Kenko Pro 300 DG for Christmas and have used it with both my Sigma 500 f4.5 and 100-300 f4 and it has seemed anything but dumb... most annoying really as it means I've had to tape the pins to use it with the 500.

I am however very happy with the image quality - the recent swan photos in my gallery were all taken using this tc with the pins taped.

[postcardcv]

I have heard about the tape on the pins trick to retain AF and it would be very useful to know how you find out which pins to cover. Is it just a case of trial & error?

This came up only yesterday...

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=49771

[Adrian D]

Found it with a search, thanks Steve.

Thanks also for the other link Postcard.

[SMC2002]

Butting in a bit late, but I use the "cheap" Tamron (used to be $80usd, is now $110usd). Lots of birders get really good results with this TC. No taping required and it fits on ANY lens. Unlike the Canon and Sigma TCs.

I have seen all the "comparisons" on DPR and the Tamron is softer in the corners. But, my birds are usually center frame, so it doesn't bother me a bit. As someone above mentioned, I use this TC on the 400mm F5.6L with the 20D. So it gives me a FOV of 896mms. Yes, you better know what you are doing and yes you need high shutter speeds or a mono/tri pod. But, I have no trouble nailing birds in flight with this set up. Yes, the TC does slow the AF, but the 400mm is a very fast focuser w/o the TC and with it, it doesn't slow the AF down all that much.

Here are some examples from this morning and last Friday, taken with this combo.

here (http://freezeframephotography.smugmug.com/photos/53208590-L.jpg)

here (http://freezeframephotography.smugmug.com/photos/53208572-L.jpg)

and here (http://freezeframephotography.smugmug.com/photos/52861667-L.jpg)

Steve

[Keith Reeder]

You make the point very well Steve - they're great..!

[Jeremy]

This isn't always the case - I got given a Kenko Pro 300 DG for Christmas and have used it with both my Sigma 500 f4.5 and 100-300 f4 and it has seemed anything but dumb... most annoying really as it means I've had to tape the pins to use it with the 500.

I am however very happy with the image quality - the recent swan photos in my gallery were all taken using this tc with the pins taped.

Hi,
I have a Sigma 500mm f/4.5, and can`t get it to autofocus with any converter. I have tried taping pins on my Kenko Pro 300 1.4x, and still it doesn`t work. Which pins do you tape?

[fc3s89]

I just bought a Kenko Pro 300 DG and what I have found is if you mount it to the camera first, then to the lens it will auto focus, if you mount it to the lens first, then the camera like you are supposed to it doesn't auto focus. I don't understand why this would be the case but I have tried it a whole bunch of times and the result is consistent.

[SMC2002]

I just bought a Kenko Pro 300 DG and what I have found is if you mount it to the camera first, then to the lens it will auto focus, if you mount it to the lens first, then the camera like you are supposed to it doesn't auto focus. I don't understand why this would be the case but I have tried it a whole bunch of times and the result is consistent.

That's very interesting. Does it report F8 or F5.6 in the viewfinder, when wide open? And does it report the same max aperture for both methods?

Steve

[SeanKP]

That's very interesting. Does it report F8 or F5.6 in the viewfinder, when wide open? And does it report the same max aperture for both methods?

Steve
Hi Steve

I have the same combination as SMC2002 and have found the same to be true. What I've found is that if you mount the TC to the camera first (thus achieving AF) the max aperture is reported as f4.5 (which is obviously incorrect) whereas if you attach the camera to the lens first (losing AF) the aperture is reported correctly.

I can understand this behaviour on my 350D which is designed to shut off AF when an aperture smaller than F5.6 is detected but annoyingly this is also the case on my 1DS MarkII which is supposed to be able to AF at F8. I suspect (and I seem to recall reading somewhere this was the case) that it is the lens that is refusing to try and AF when it detects an aperture smaller than F5.6. If this is so, then I don't think any TC will work properly (ie will allow AF and retain the correct EXIF info) with the 1DS Mark II and the Sigma 500mm. Does anyone know any different?

Sean

[SMC2002]

Sean,
That's pretty interesting. I'm going to have to recommend that to others who are having issues getting TC's to work AF-wise.

On your 1DS MkII, the cheap Tamron might work. It won't report correct aperture, but it should allow AF. If it works so well with my 400 F5.6 on a 20D, I don't see why it would work as well, or better, with the 1DS and the 500 F4.5 Sigma.

Steve

[fc3s89]

Yep, what Sean said.

The EXIF shows the correctly when mounting the TC to the lens first, but it doesn't AF. When mounting to the camera first the EXIF is incorrect but the AF works.

I am using the TC on a Sigma 50-500 with a Canon EOS 20D.

[jimtfoto]

Yep, what Sean said.

The EXIF shows the correctly when mounting the TC to the lens first, but it doesn't AF. When mounting to the camera first the EXIF is incorrect but the AF works.

I am using the TC on a Sigma 50-500 with a Canon EOS 20D.
OK ... slap me for asking a stupid question. Can't figure out why, if a camera is turned off, any signals would be sent be either when mounting the TC to the camera first or the lens first?????

jim

[SMC2002]

Yep, what Sean said.

The EXIF shows the correctly when mounting the TC to the lens first, but it doesn't AF. When mounting to the camera first the EXIF is incorrect but the AF works.

I am using the TC on a Sigma 50-500 with a Canon EOS 20D.

Well thanks for telling me this AFTER I sold my Bigma......LOL I really could not get it to work well for fast movers when I had a TC attached. The same TC that works great with my 400mm and Sigma 70-200mm. Oh well, this is still interesting. I have the same question, in my mind, as the previous poster. If power if off, how is the camera aware of any lens being attached or removed? I believe your results, but it sure is strange.


Steve

[fc3s89]

Believe me, I had the same question in my mind as to how the camera would know if the TC was already on the camera or not when it was turned off. I repeated it several times when I got the TC. I don't have an explanation for it. Even typing this now I want to go home and try it a few more times just to check again because it makes no sense.

lol. I wouldn't stress yet Steve. I am yet to use the TC with Bigma in the field. That will happen this Saturday so I will find out then how useable it is. There will need to be a lot of light at the very least.

[SeanKP]

OK ... slap me for asking a stupid question. Can't figure out why, if a camera is turned off, any signals would be sent be either when mounting the TC to the camera first or the lens first?????

jim
Not a stupid question, I don't think I've explained the behaviour fully. I almost never turn the camera off so when I attach the lens to the camera first, the camera will almost always be in sleep mode. If I attach everything whilst the camera is off I do not get AF. If, for some reason, I switch the camera off with the TC and lens attached the lens will not AF when I turn the camera back on. In either event, to get AF back I need to disconnect the TC from the lens (whilst keeping it attached to the camera which needs to be on or at least in sleep mode) and then re-attach. Hope that makes sense!

[SMC2002]

Believe me, I had the same question in my mind as to how the camera would know if the TC was already on the camera or not when it was turned off. I repeated it several times when I got the TC. I don't have an explanation for it. Even typing this now I want to go home and try it a few more times just to check again because it makes no sense.

lol. I wouldn't stress yet Steve. I am yet to use the TC with Bigma in the field. That will happen this Saturday so I will find out then how useable it is. There will need to be a lot of light at the very least.

FC,
Thanks mate :-) I hope you fare better with your Bigma + TC than I did. I tried numerous times and was only able to come home with a few sitting ducks, so to speak. I never could get good AF on fliers. Not to mention how easily this combo gets lost in a clear sky if your AF point strays off your target :-( Lots of hunting. Anyhow, explainable or not, I sure hope the technique you guys mentioned works out for you.

I was tempted to try it with my current set up, but my TC doesn't report aperture anyway. I will try it next time out to see if it helps the AF speed. The 400 F5.6L is a fast focuser bare, but slows significantly with the Tamron TC (I hear it's worse using the Canon and Kenko TCs). You can still get decently fast AF lock and excellent AI Servo tracking. Something I was never able to coax out of the Bigma combo.

Sean,
If you leave your camera on (even in sleep mode) when you change lenses, you probably won't hurt the camera. But, you may cause it to throw an Error 99. At least if it's a 20D you may |^| Another Canon added feature.....LOL, which will probably be corrected in the new cam they are rumored to be announcing next week.

Steve

[hollis_f]

OK ... slap me for asking a stupid question. Can't figure out why, if a camera is turned off, any signals would be sent be either when mounting the TC to the camera first or the lens first?????

jim

Because the camera's not really off - even when the switch is set to that position. Try removing a CF card when it's (supposedly) off.

[fc3s89]

Because the camera's not really off - even when the switch is set to that position. Try removing a CF card when it's (supposedly) off.
I don't get it. That's how you remove a CF. Set the camera to "Off" then take it out. No drama.

I have done some more testing tonight just to convince myself I wasn't losing the plot. All is well. The results are still the same as I said before. The switch was always set to the "Off" position when changing them around. I think hollis must be on the right track though. There must be somthing that get registered when you put the lens onto the camera whether it is on or off. Maybe it has something to do the the fast startup time and Canon needed to make sure it didn't have to do any diagnostics on startup to achieve this?

[fc3s89]

FC,
Thanks mate :-) I hope you fare better with your Bigma + TC than I did. I tried numerous times and was only able to come home with a few sitting ducks, so to speak. I never could get good AF on fliers. Not to mention how easily this combo gets lost in a clear sky if your AF point strays off your target :-( Lots of hunting. Anyhow, explainable or not, I sure hope the technique you guys mentioned works out for you.
Steve
You're welcome. :)
I really think AI Servo tracking flying birds is asking a lot from this combo at full magnification. For most other situations I think it will work pretty well. I also think the use of Custom Function 4 will help a lot with it as well, so you can focus on a contrasty part of the subject, then re-compose the picture and shoot.

[AVIBRAM]

I have the 20D + 100-400is + 1.4 converter @ the AF DOESNT WORK.
Sharpness well I am slightly dissapointed when I handhold I do not get a lot of very sharp shots. On the tripod its different they are sharp.Maybe Im just geting old @ cant handhold anymore.

[fc3s89]

That's right. With that combo the AF won't work. You need to tape a couple of pins to make it work.

[hollis_f]

[QUOTE=fc3s89]I don't get it. That's how you remove a CF. Set the camera to "Off" then take it out. No drama.[QUOTE]

But the LCD lights up - yes? Which shows that the camera isn't really 'off' when the switch is in the off position.

[compa]

I have the 20D + 100-400is + 1.4 converter @ the AF DOESNT WORK.
Sharpness well I am slightly dissapointed when I handhold I do not get a lot of very sharp shots. On the tripod its different they are sharp.Maybe Im just geting old @ cant handhold anymore.

Considering that with the 20D's 1.6x crop factor and the 1.4x teleconverter the 100-400mm lens becomes almost 900mm I would be very surprised that anyone would even attempt to hand hold it! Don't forget that you are working at even slower shutter speeds with the teleconverter taking up an extra f stop.

[postcardcv]

Not a stupid question, I don't think I've explained the behaviour fully. I almost never turn the camera off so when I attach the lens to the camera first, the camera will almost always be in sleep mode. If I attach everything whilst the camera is off I do not get AF. If, for some reason, I switch the camera off with the TC and lens attached the lens will not AF when I turn the camera back on. In either event, to get AF back I need to disconnect the TC from the lens (whilst keeping it attached to the camera which needs to be on or at least in sleep mode) and then re-attach. Hope that makes sense!

Just to confuse matters even more - I'm using a 350D, Kenko 1.4x 300 DG and a Sigma 500 f4.5 (non-DG) and no matter what order I connect things in I do not get AF... the camera sets max app as f6.3 and so it refuses to AF. So I resorted to taping the pins, this way it will AF (still very fast AF) and is easy to use.

Strangely on my Sigma 100-300 f4 the convertor works fine with no tape (at f5.6) and AF's fine, but with the tape in place the AF hunts a lot... so now I want a Sigma 1.4x tc to use with that lens...

[postcardcv]

Considering that with the 20D's 1.6x crop factor and the 1.4x teleconverter the 100-400mm lens becomes almost 900mm I would be very surprised that anyone would even attempt to hand hold it! Don't forget that you are working at even slower shutter speeds with the teleconverter taking up an extra f stop.

I'm a big fan of tripods and rarely shoot without one... however last week when on my way somewhere and stopped for fuel. My tripod was burried in the boot (under loads of stuff) so I was using the beanbag rested on the car... but I couldn't get an angle on this starling so had to resort to handholding. Thankfully the light was good, it was only afterwards that I realsied that I had the tc attached. - so it was taken with a 350D, Sigma 500 and a 1.4x tc.