How Big is Your....

[Beverlybaynes]

:scribe:

(OK, folks, stop blushing and get your minds outta the gutter!)

How big is your L I S T ???

I was just amending my posted life list to include the Red-Necked Grebe I scored yesterday in Indianapolis. And in reading through the replies to that thread, I saw again where several others had posted the size of their personal lists.

Given that there are over 8000 species known (and more remaining to be found), I'm just curious as to what YOUR life list totals up to.

With the global reach this forum has, and the travel that many of you do, I'm sure there are some totals that will be just amazing!

That said, however, I wouldn't want anyone to be embarrassed because they have a relatively small number. Birding is all about the enjoyment of the birds, and the joy they bring YOU, in my book. Low esteem and humility are not allowed here! Remember, even the birders with the astronomical totals once had only 15 or 37 or 88, long before they reached three and four-digit totals!!

So, I'll start:

I have a life total of 199, as of 4-20-03, with the list including birds seen in Indiana, Ohio, and California, USA.

'Fess up, now. How about YOU?

B (:

[dennis]

843 on my life list. Last one was Snowy Plover on Marco Island,
Florida just two days ago.

dennis

[KCFoggin]

Okay Helen uh Beverly. Jusssst kidding. I have a measily 119 on my life list. As I said earlier in another post, it just gives me that many more to find.. Good topic Beverly.

[stuprice68]

Hi Beverley

My lifelist is about 630...I say "about" because it seems new species are being made every day ( I`ve added Japanese Skylark and Siberian Buff Bellied Pipit to my list this year as they appear to have split from their very similar European equivalents).......

The only lists close to my heart are my 2 local lists-one in Penwortham (UK) and Hakodate (Japan). I`ve never owned a car so most of my birding has been places I can walk to. The combined list of these 2 places is 195 (neither place is especially good for birds I should add and there is a surprisingly big overlap in species) and of course I have the added pleasure of knowing I found all of them!

You can basically get a very high lifelist if you can afford to travel to tropical regions-primarily Latin America, East Africa and South/Southeast Asia AND get a local guide....ideal for rich cheats (only joking). I`ve been to several tropical countries (Venezuela, Thailand, Nepal, Malysia, Indonesia...) and was frankly either overwhelmed in attempting to identify totally new species or underwhelmed by the fact birds could sometimes be so difficult to find there....I should have employed a guide maybe!

Anyway-lists are a bit nerdy but I think all birders keep them. Showing off about them though would be extreme nerdiness personified-thankfully I`ve never met a birder like this.
Like I say a big list ( more than 2000 say) only implies enough funds to travel to exotic places on guided trips-nowt special about that! Though I guess if you LIVED in one of those places and you found the birds yourself a little bragging could be forgiven. Oops-getting a bit off topic here....

Local listing is my preference anyway.

[alan_rymer]

Beverley

My measley list! Only started it this year.
Life 99. Berkshire 83. In my garden 18

[Lawrie Hodges]

'lists.... .. all birders keep them'
I realize now that I not a birder, unless mental list counts. I do know, I believe, which birds I have so far seen and identified (or had identified for me) but I don't know any numbers nor care very much. Maybe, when my identification skills are sufficiently developed, that I shall move on (or backwards) to becoming a real birder. Perhaps there is a distiction beween 'birding' and 'birdwatching'.

[birdman]

Hi Beverly,

My life list stands at 158... aiming to add 20 this year!

[Angela]

I feel a bit out of my depth now, reading how many birds you have all seen.

I've only started taking an interest in birds since November and so far I've only been watching what has been going on in my garden. I've got 21 on my list, that I have seen in my garden.

[birdman]

No need to feel out of your depth, Angela!
If you check out my garden list, you'll find it stands at 8!

[birdman]

Lawrie,

My list was just a mental list until I joined BF, which gave me a reason to write it down.

It doesn't have to be all-consuming - I reckon we all take our hobby with different levels of seriousness. You should see some of the threads about note-taking... I NEVER take notes (shame on me!!!)

So... if you list is in your head, then fair enough - but I bet you'd be surprised how long it is...

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Beverley et al,
287 here in Ireland,and I think about 334 or so for the world(would have to check latter,but Irish list correct).Cork list of 240,and self-found Irish list of about 190+
Harry

[MikeMules]

361 spp. since restarting my list in 2001. (My "old" life list had been going since I was nine, and many hadn't been written down or I wasn't sure if I'd seen them or just had them pointed out to me. So, restart!)

[Karl J]

Was this thread put directly below the one titled '' Don't Be Shy '' for a reason ??????

Perhaps I should move on now..... lol

Although I've always lived close to, or in, the countryside I'm still in my first year of actual 'birdwatching' and making lists ( a habit I picked up shortly after finding this site, by the way ) so my ''know what it looks like but haven't id'd it yet list'' is quite a bit bigger than the ''actually know what it is list'' which stands at 74 at the minute.

Waiting right now for the various migrant Tern ..... and really should have a good id session with the local Gull population as they are absolutely everywhere round here ..... could also do a bit of seawatching as I'm right by the sea .... and also looking forward to id'ing the various butterflies & dragonflies of the summer.
Fortunately this is a really good area for lots of wildlife inc birds - so the list should grow fairly quickly although I'm not planning on traveling any great distance purely to expand it.

Just a shame I also have to go to work though.

[KCFoggin]

Welcome Angela! Please don't feel out of depth with your life list.
If you have accumuated 21 birds since November it speaks volumes for your garden and how welcome the birds must feel.

[Tammie]

Okay, you guys have me going now. I've never done a list but I think I might start. I have been checking off bird names in my guide as I've seen them so I have a place to start. Guess that's today's project. Will get back to you with numbers.
Angela, I agree with KC. For someone only watching for 6 months, you've done really well!

[oldsquaw]

I have 657 in USA (someday Alaska) plus 2 in Canada = 659 North America. 424 in Colorado. 385 in Pueblo County, Colorado.

Last Lifer - Arctic Loon (Colorado's 1st. near Denver last fall).

[Andrew]

My British list is 157 since last August 2002 and the world list is 272 courtesy of the Kenya trip. I am quite proud of the British total despite it being small compared to top listers. I do not race around the country for ticks which is why is is not above 200.

[CJW]

1263 on my world list and 467 on my British List. I envy those of you who are getting new birds (and the thrill that goes with it). I stopped twitching because I was no longer enjoying the birds for themselves but was more number crunching. As my wife keeps telling me, "it's not the size, but the quality that counts.........."

[columbidae]

I am feeling a little better now, seeing that I'm not the only person here with a short list. Mine stands at 70 (got my 69th and 70th this morning), after about a year of birding. I live in a somewhat "bird poor" area, so I don't feel too bad, but it's hard not to be jealous of those who live in better birding areas.

[T0ny]

I think, as Angela has indicated (welcome aboard, by the way, Angela), the length of time you have been birding has an impact on your list. I've been seriously birding since May 1988, nearly 15 years (or 7.5 times the length of my marriage !). My UK & World Life List are the same - just over 300 (I neither drive nor fly). I've lived at my present address for seven months now, and I've seen 91 species within walking distance of my house, helped by the fact I'm only half a mile from the sea.

Tony

[oldsquaw]

Hey don't feel bad, we all had to begin with No. 1. and the list will continue from there. My list began in 1965 at the age of 14. So have fun. Van

[simondix]

My Life list is 344. I got 41 of these in the first week in April when I took my first holiday abroad(at my age!) to Cyprus. My UK list stands at 303. That includes a few armchair ticks on splits. So not that impressive.

[Andrew]

Pushed mine up to 158 tonight as you can see in my report! So now its 157 Brits and 273 globally. Only need three more for the magical 160, well it's magical to me!!!!

Edit : Now it's 159 british birds with my first Wood Warbler today! One more to go for the 160, could be a Roseate Tern?

[peteh]

my manx list is 148
(Dipped out again today :( booooo)
and my 2003 local patch (Langness) list is 78, which im quite pleased with.

[RonClark28]

I think my life list is aorund 150 ... but its been a few years since I last looked at it but as I have to add cuckoo and nightingale to it from this last weekends birding, I'll have another count and let you know alter.

As for a year list ... that hasn't been started yet ... but again will be later tonight.

And as for a garden list, well I have around 30 odd on that one if I had one ... but two lists is enough for me thanks.

[Paul Rule]

I've recently revised my UK list, and taken out a number of birds that I recorded many years ago (I had a big break from active birding) and am now not so sure I realy ID'd correctly. My list now stands at 194. I now get to enjoy ticking those as firsts again

I now need to do the same with my life list which I think is around 300.

[Alastair Rae]

Having birded on three continents, my world life list is somewhere around 1200. My UK & Ireland list, however, is only circa 295.

I don't have exact figures because I don't keep my computer up to date with all the lumps and splits.

[Tammie]

Okay, my list is pretty tiny compared to some of you but I think it's pretty impressive anyway, considering I've never done any serious birding except around my own yard!
Total life list: 81
Total garden or yard list: 49

Not too bad! :)

[El Annie]

Haven't got any serious lists (apart from ringing lists which are a must to progress to C permit) but like Angela and many other BF members I have not been birding for very long - started getting interested about 3 yrs ago when I moved to a new house with my first ever garden!! So poor was my birding knowledge that I had to use my newly acquired bird guide to ID a Blue Tit :) We certainly do all have to start somewhere!!!

Annie

[HelenB]

We just got back from a trip to Big Bend National Park and the Davis Mountains in West Texas. Got about 16 lifers, which takes me to over 450 world species - USA, Canada, UK, New Zealand & Bali. However, on checking my sightings in the Birder's Diary software I'm using, I realise that I haven't entered a few lifers from earlier this year! Then there are a couple of splits....

[Angela]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a lump and a split?

[T0ny]

'Splitting' is when two or more sub-species, previously treated as races of a species, are given full specific status. A recent example is the division of Yellow-browed Warbler and Hume's Yellow-browed Warbler. 'Lumping' is where two former full species are deemed to belong to the same species.

Amongst 'Listers' and Twitchers, splitting is popular as it gives them more ticks on their list. If they've already seen the form which has been elevated to specific status, they get an 'armchair tick' (i.e. their list increases by one without them having to leave their armchairs :D ).

Species status usually changes as a result of DNA analysis.

HTH

Tony

[birdman]

It's not ignorance at all, Angela, but a perfectly valid question.

It would seem there is a certain amount of debate about the distinctiveness of certain bird species, and there are at least two opposing points of view.

With the advent of DNA analysis, orntihologists have recently started "splitting" what have previously been regarded as single species into two or more subspecies, or sometimes full species, based upon differences in their DNA.

On the opposing side of the fence, certain other previously separate species have been "lumped" together, perhaps ignoring differences on colouration or song etc. and putting this down to variation within a single species.

Now, I'm not an expert - you know everything I know now - but for a bit more info. take a look at the link below.

In one of my earliest posts on BF I asked about lumping and splitting, and you might find the responses interesting and (as I did!) educational,

http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2104

Cheers

[birdman]

Well, as you can see T0ny beat me to an answer, but the thread is still worth a look!

[T0ny]

Thanks for that - I'd forgotten that thread completely (I put it down to old age, overindulgence - and I can't remember the third thing !)

Tony

[birdman]

Originally posted by birdman

With the advent of DNA analysis, orntihologists have recently started "splitting" what have previously been regarded as single species into two or more subspecies, or sometimes full species, based upon differences in their DNA.

I know it isn't good form to find yourself humorous - but what on earth is an "orntihologist"???

Evidently I can't spell at this time of night!

[KCFoggin]

Ornithology - The branch of zoology that deals with the study of birds.
Zoology -
The branch of biology that deals with animals and animal life, including the study of the structure, physiology, development, and classification of animals
How's that? :)

[dennis]

"orntihologist" - a drunken student of birds

dennis

[Rosah]

My life list stands at 170 right now. Mine are mostly seen in my backyard or on the way to town and covers two states. I lived in Indiana when I first started birding a little less than six years ago. Moved to Texas four and a half years ago.

[birdman]

You pitch'em KC, dennis'll hit 'em.

LOL

[Beverlybaynes]

Dennis, that sounds like experience speaking LOL!

[Motmot]

I have to admit I became a lister a long time ago, almost 30 years now! My life list today is 1906 and the last new one is Sulphur-winged Parakeet, a parrot endemic to the Talamanca cordillera, shared by Costa Rica and Panama.
Saludos

[birdman]

Hi Motmot...

That's a fantastic number! I know listing isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I bet you've had some great times acquiring tose "ticks" over the last 30 years.

I am seriosly impressed!!!!

(All I have to do now is talk you into taking part in the Great Global Bird Count! Hmm? Huh? ...)

[Andrew]

I believe Listing helps broaden your experiences as I have been to 'millions' of places I would have never thought of before becoming a birder!

[Ashley beolens]

My current British life list is 393 not long to the 400 mark. As for my world list its only about 60 more :t:

but theres plenty of time left to improve both.

[Swift]

Last lifer was Grey Headed Lapwing Thailand that was number 3,061 , as for British list I stopped counting and twitching when I passed 420 , I did a trip to Cape May saw masses of Common Yellowthroats came home and two days later I was stood on St.Marys (Scilly Isles) watching another one, from that day I just lost interest in twitching got more involved locally and started racing round the world.

[Ashley beolens]

Thats the problem with birding abroard it soils the birds you see at home (in a listing sense, not an attractiveness one). why spend 2 hours driving to see a bird you have seen hundreds of times in a different country.

[Andrew]

It doesn't for me, I was watching lots of Little Terns in Kenya and when I came home and saw one recently for the first time, it got me really excited.

[Sal]

I started birding seriously in 1985 and my lifelist is 432 at the moment - all from South Africa, plus trips to Namibia and Botswana. Since we have approximately 900 species of birds you can see that I have a long way to go! There are too many LBJs!! :-)

[Edward]

Nerdy as it undoubtedly is I like lists as much as the next man and as of Saturday mine are
World : 389
Iceland: 156
Reykjavik Patch: c. 75
I've just returned from Spain where I had the great pleasure of seeing 59 lifers! White-headed Duck being the most recent one on Saturday morning.

[rile's]

ABA North American Life List is 364.
Which is pretty close to what my year list is also. Might make it to 500 for the year list

My new world life list that I just started in Hawaii is 384....Although out of the 20 Hawain birds only 8 were endemics.

I love this listing thing as a way to keep track of birds and it adds another level of interest to birding. But these will be the only lists I will ever care about. Although I suppose if I ever get a permanent house I will keep a yard list.

[James]

OK I am a lister and that is part of my addiction. So far British list of 355 (one or two in debate) and world list of 993.
Just because I keep lists does not stop me enjoying a days birding when not a single new year tick is added, so I do try and keep a balance.

James

[Charles Harper]

If you look 'way down on the surfbirds.com ABA and world lists, you'll find my numbers. You're right, list length is just a function of how long you've been birding and how many places you've been able to visit. And there's no point in being envious of either, because both will come to you in time if you love birding.

Congratulations to all on your lists to date.

[RonClark28]

Originally posted by James
OK I am a lister and that is part of my addiction. So far British list of 355 (one or two in debate) and world list of 993.
Just because I keep lists does not stop me enjoying a days birding when not a single new year tick is added, so I do try and keep a balance.

James

Balance is the key isn't it? Jan and I keep a list every time we go out briding. Mainly coz I can never remember everything we see in one day, but it does give us a record of what we have seen and when and where we saw it. I remember an article in one of the birding mags about people who keep all sorts of lists, TV lists covering wildlife programs, films and so on. Then there was the guy I met who was after the cattle egret in North Warwickshire coz he hadn't seen one in Warwickshire ... ... ... and so on. So, we keep 3 lists I suppose, our life and year lists that I suppose most of us keep and then the 'trip' list I suppose you can call it ... which reminds me, I haven't brought them up to date from last week and our last trip to Brandon Marsh.

[Surreybirder]

Just to return to an earlier point, 'splitting' is not always a help to ones list. I've seen several birds that were later split and I don't know which one to tick now:
eg Giant petrel, lesser spotted eagle (in India), golden-spectacled warbler (India, now split into five) and probably others.
I've seen about 976 species in all (in 25+ years of birding) and my UK list is, neatly, 276. Most recent addition to UK list was hooded crow (a split) and before that, purple heron (April 2000). I've never been much of a twitcher but I've travelled quite a bit, including 5 months in USA and Canada, and visits to India (three months), Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, and various parts of Europe inc. Cyprus.

[James]

One or two people have hinted at the ability to "buy" a big list by being able to afford exotic holidays. My wife and I both work hard and save hard for birding holidays which we normally research and organise ourselves. If, for example we are going to Hungary we will get a Gosney guide, read up on all the birding holiday brochures for site info, then put together our own package at about half the price of an organised tour. We may only get half the numbers but the satisfaction of getting them ourselves is more important than sheer numbers. I have seen some species come so fast on an organised trip that some people are so busy writing them down that they don't see them!!!
Yes I know I am very luckey to get to some of the places I do but I also hope I put something back in.

James

[Charles Harper]

There's also a pretty simple (partial) solution to the splitting problem-- try to identify and list by subspecies and keep all your trip lists so you'll know all the geographic locations you've seen a (super-)species. As a reminder, I put a little ink dot on the fieldguide species map at each place I've seen the bird(s), which eventually also gives you a quick idea of its distribution. This activity, plus keeping an eye on the official updates so you don't lose track of wandering genus names, should prevent you from losing most ticks in the confusion.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Charles,

Good tip that, tho' it doesn't help much with a Pacific Slope / Cordilleran Flycatcher (previously both Western F.) on passage in southeast California . . .

Well actually, I don't think anything helps with that, 'xcept mebbe a DNA test . . .

Michael

[Malvolio]

DNA Michael?

What's the National Dyslexia Association got to do with it?

MV

[Charles Harper]

No, that's the 'ADN', Malvolio.

[Hanno]

Just added two more to my life list (Ratchet-tailed Treepie, Red-headed Trogon) which takes my life list to 1,444 (want to reach 1,500 this year).

[Glen Tepke]

I've been birding since 1987 but birding was sporadic for much of that time and I have been a "serious" birder only for the last few years. Since our start in birding was initiated by my wife Carol as a shared activity, we only count species that we both see together on our primary lists:

World: 892
ABA Area (continental US & Canada): 575
California (former home): 313
Massachusetts (current home): 301

I have seen a few species that Carol missed that are not included in the totals, and Carol has a few on me.

In the interest of full disclosure, the totals include two species that are not countable under American Birding Association rules, Eurasian Teal, aka Common Teal (because the split from Green-winged Teal is not yet recognized by the American Ornithological Union), and Nanday Parakeet, aka Black-cowled Parakeet, which is introduced and well established in Florida but is not yet considered countable by the ABA. In both cases, we said to **** with the ABA, they seem legitimate to us, we're counting them.

I keep my own list for my local patch, the Boston Public Garden, a small (24 acre) urban park that I walk through almost every week day on my way to and from work. My total there is 127. Glen

[Malvolio]

I'm being totally honest when I say that I've enjoyed my birding much more since i gave up on the list thing. I know what Ive seen and I know what I ain't but I neither know or care about the numbers thing. It's all about accruing memories for me and I find the numbers get in the way somewhat.

MV

[Glen Tepke]

I should add that while I do enjoy the listing game, it is certainly not the most important aspect of birding for me. Finding, identifying, watching, photographing and appreciating the beauty of birds all provide as much or more satisfaction.

I agree with Malvolio that birding is basically about collecting memories. I find that keeping a list helps me hold onto those memories, but it is the records of individual sightings, not the total numbers that do that. Glen

[Mark D]

Hi all,
I disagree that wealth = a big list. I think visiting as many different habitats as well as different regions as you can increases your life list greatly. If you went round the world to loads of different countries just visiting coastal resorts then your life list would be very limited. As soon as you start travelling in the countries you visit and exploring different habitats then you gain a greater wealth of birds AND more importantly a greater experience. This experience then lends itself to your birding and helps increase your list also. Time is also a great factor. I've been birding since 1978 (at the tender age of 8 years old) and it took forever for me to see my first 200 species. I first went abroad in the late 1980s and after that it wasn't an annual thing until recently.
I see far more birds on my trips abroad nowadays than I ever did back then, all this is down to experience. Of course money will help you go on fantastic guided birding trips, but it isn't guarenteed that you'll get a big list. My list now stands at 1524(ish). I have done a lot of birding in Europe, some in Africa (on the cheap twice and one safari but no guided tour), Texas, and Goa. All of which were not guided and sometimes with very poor books. My most expensive trip was to Ecuador 2002 which was guided and got me 480 lifers! But that was largley due to the amount of bird life in Ecuador and the moving from one area to another.
My local patch list is somewhere in the region of 140 birds, I haven't a clue what my British list is as I've never been a serial twitcher (one cornflake two cornflakes)

I also believe that living in the UK makes my holidays a much greater experience as the birding is always superior, but I rarely get disheartened here as I regularly flog my patch. After all it's the local ticks that give the greatest pleasure.

[birdman]

I agree with Glen. Our brains are notoriously unreliable when it comes to recalling specifics... but with the help of a few constants to link the memory stream together, it becomes much easier to revisit the experience.

I'm happy for you MV, that you enjoy your birding more, and I wouldn't for one moment suggest your method is "wrong".

For me, new to listing though, it is another constant that means I get a deeper enjoyment retrospectively out of birding - and it is challenging me in such a way that I am enjoying the actual experience at the time even more also.

Certainly the list is not the be all and end all - and I know that we often go to great pains not to decry anyone else's method of birding here on BF - but if listing was the be all and end all, that would just make me a collector, not a birder (IMHO).

Amassing a list in the process of birding, is just incidental. (In my case, often accidental!!!)

As for James and Mark D, I certainly don't begrudge you your trips to other countries, and I hope you continue to enjoy your overseas birding. You both make very apposite (if that's the right word) points.

You still need to do your research beforehand, and bumming around the coastal resorts won't add many to your total.

Good on yer :t:

[Michael Frankis]

Originally posted by Mark D
Hi all,
I disagree that wealth = a big list. I think visiting as many different habitats as well as different regions as you can increases your life list greatly. If you went round the world to loads of different countries just visiting coastal resorts then your life list would be very limited. As soon as you start travelling in the countries you visit and exploring different habitats then you gain a greater wealth of birds AND more importantly a greater experience.

Hi Mark,

You've just disproved your own first statement. You need to be wealthy to do what you describe.

Michael

[Nancy]

I think my Australian list is now about 620. I sort of stopped counting after I passed the magic 600 ( joined the 600 club) but I have never kept a LIFE list and have been to lots of places overseas like Equador. But I think there should be a sort of "AVERAGING OUT" to relate to the number of years a person has been counting. I am now 68 years old so for me 630 has taken a long time. We had a guy here in Aus who set out to get 700 in a year and he actually got 705 or 708 I'm not sure of the final total but he spent the whole year doing little else and travelled many hundreds of thousand Kilometers and dollars in the effort. He will be publishing a book about it all sometime in the future.

Cheers and keep counting..............

Nancy

[Mark D]

Hi Michael,

I'm not a wealthy man at all, I have a job, mortgage, car but no wife or kids to drain my resources! It also will help not smoking or drinking alcohol
I can't afford to go on organised birding holidays year in year out, infact to date I've only managed one. My average holiday cost would probably be around £500. My last trip, to Lesvos, cost £250 (inc my share of the car hire)
I consider myself to be careful with money and therefore I manage to go abroad for my birding hols.

Mark

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Mark,

Depends on your perspectives. As far as I'm concerned, anyone with a job earning more than the national minimum wage is wealthy. There's no way I could afford the holidays you described (contributions welcomed, of course :-)

I've managed a few trips abroad, all either short-distance (e.g. Bulgaria), or heavily subsidised (Mexico; paid for by sale of tree seeds collected there, tho' that limits time available for birding). World life list 661. But I also know several good birders (in terms of bird ID ability) who can't afford to go abroad at all, so their lists are 100% UK.

Michael
(no mortgage, no smoke, parents pay for what little alcohol I drink)

[Andrew]

There are several cheapo holidays in Britain. I love these as some are near birding spots. When those £9.50 holidays in The Sun come round take a look. You can do places such as Norfolk, South Cornwall, Berry Head, etc... for £40 a weekend or midweeker. Another alternative is the YHA which I am looking to start. Does anyone know if the YHA operate in Scotland? The info I have is for England and Wales only.

[Grousemore]

Michael,Your problem is that you give all your knowledge and information for FREE!
Such an authority in any other walk of life would charge £mega per hour for the sort of info.that you supply free/gratis.
Perhaps you need an agent? ;)

[Michael Frankis]

Yeah, now if BirdForum paid £1 for every posting made . . . o:)

[StevieEvans]

Apparently a really well known professional UK twitcher / bird-aholic, keeps his foreign trip costs down by taking a suitcase FULL of bottled water & peanuts.....& lives on this whilst away!.... bizarre but very true !

Other tips when going on a Cheap jolly
Fly to military airports
Ask for a childrens portion, when ordering food
Only go for a week, instead of a fortnight, But Dont Sleep!
Take a tent
Go to a country whose neighbours are at war.

S :t:

[tf1044x]

That guy sure knows how to enjoy himself

[Geoff Brown]

I really must take birding more seriously and start to keep a list. Especially as I help in the local RSPB office!!

[Andrew Marrison]

Andrew
yes, youth hostels are all over Scotland
check out the Syha (scottish) website at www.syha.org.uk
oh, and lists...
Mine isn't very big at all, but I believe it lengthens with age.
Still, it's not the length but how much pleasure it gives you
(sorry)

[Hanno]

"Still, it's not the length but how much pleasure it gives you"

True, but as the pleasure I gain is directly linked to the length of my list, I will continue and try and expand it. I am not a compulsive twitcher (twitching is impossible in Vietnam, with hardly any fellow birders around), but I do like to travel and add birds.

[James]

Steviewol - I love your tips for cheap holidays. I believe in risk taking and would certainly go to places where there is a little instability. I was arrested in Saudi whilst birdwatching but managed to survive to tell the tale.

Maybe the answer is for this forum to share costs and organise holidays on a NON PROFIT making basis e.g. I am sure we could get a group for the States for example, get info from an American member on sites and cheap accommodation etc. find a member who is a travel agent etc. etc. It cannot be beyond our collective wit and wisdom can it?

Come on - who's for a trip to Bagdad or Liberia??

James

[Art Thorn]

Nice to hear how people feel about this. I have been recording the birds I've seen for two years now, and the list is about 200 (last time I counted). It is great to be able to travel and spend some time looking for birds, but I'm most happy discovering a new one on my own one acre. It is a crazy stand of tangled wild raspbery and elderberry with a few more domesticated plants like Mountain Ash, all designed to attract and support bird life. Each year I get about 60 different species, and eagerly start a new list each spring. The greatest thrill is seeing a bird I've never seen before, and then seeing it more often the next year. I added a pond tweo years ago, and that has seemed to bring more birds than ever (nesting too).

[pduxon]

Well I think I'm around the 125-130 mark after 1 year. I keep 3 lists life, garden and walking to Tesco's. The last one having been increased by a Blackcap and Goldfinch last week - I was well chuffed. Sad or what.

Weirdly I saw a Marsh Harrier before I saw a Bullfinch!!

Anyway, as long as you enjoy what you see the number doesn't matter, does it?

[Larry Lade]

I put my numbers down under the "Life List" thread, but will reiterate here:
693 World List (not too impressive because I have only birded the lower 48 states and one trip to Costa Rica)
533 Lower 48 states (no Alaska or Hawaii)
330 Missouri birds
130 Yard (or, I guess, as you say "Garden") birds.
I especially enjoy getting a new bird in our yard. We live in a typical middle-class residential neighborhood. Some of the exception birds I have seen in our yard include American Woodcock, Wood Duck, Red-headed Woodpecker and Prothonotary Warbler. I am also anixous to see what the next "new" yard bird will be!

[Rasmus Boegh]

Hmmm...

I have a weird feeling about these lists. My list is "supposedly big" on a few thousand. I do know the number more acurately as my "birdwatching-program" does the counting for me. HOWEVER, that number (large or small) does not really matter to me...what matters is a a FEW SPECIAL ones. Either because they were quite simply amazing or took me completely by surprice. Just an example...roughly one and a half week ago... First a Large-tailed Antshrike...50 meters further on the trail, and less than two minutes later...Giant Antshrike! These two count more to me, than my countless tyrant-flycatchers (sorry if there are any fans of those out there!)!

As You may guess from the species mentioned above, I´m sitting in Brazil...on the way to Lencois.

[Option1]

I'm another listing weakling :)

Started birding on 1 June this year and have amassed the massive total of 25 of which 14 are from my garden. Wooo Hooo!

All I can say is, watch out CJW! I figure at this rate I should catch up with you by about the year 3959 (presuming you don't add any more to your list).

Neil

[CJW]

Sorry Neil - it's gone up by 1 since I last posted that in April. We got a Southern Grey Shrike here on the IoM in June/July which took me to 1264 and 468 respectively...
I must say though, that in world terms my list in pretty much at the beginners stage. A good mate of mine is over 5,000(!) including finding a new species for science (Buloberti Boubou, a kind of shrike in Africa).

[Option1]

Congratulations CJW. As long as it all remains enjoyable to you rather than an obsession with numbers then I think it's incredible to stop and think of the number of different birds you've seen over a lifetime.

I wish I had started birding back in Australia. However, even though they're not recorded, it still fascinates me when I contemplate the variety of birds and wildlife I've so far encountered in this vale of tears.

Neil

[Rob]

My life list is 1645, I like to travel

My Dutch list is 399, the next one must be very special and whithout any doubt a true vagrant!

[CJW]

Excellent Rob, sounds like your Dutch list has involved a fair degree of twitching! A couple of questions if you don't mind:
How big is the official Dutch list
How many are on your list that haven't been split as separate species by British birders I wonder? ;)
I hope your 400th is a cracker, probably this Autumn?

[Charles Harper]

.. And I'd like to know more about this British-Dutch rift in the taxonomy of valid, countable species. Evidently the Dutch are infamous for lumping and the British are notorious for splitting? What's the history of all this? Isn't there an umbrella body supervising you guys over there?

Reg'ds, Chas.

[Michael Frankis]

Originally posted by Charles Harper
.. And I'd like to know more about this British-Dutch rift in the taxonomy of valid, countable species. Evidently the Dutch are infamous for lumping and the British are notorious for splitting? What's the history of all this? Isn't there an umbrella body supervising you guys over there?

Reg'ds, Chas.

Hi Charles,

Other way round, at least in ornithology - the Dutch are the splitters.

In botany, it is different, there, the Dutch (and Americans) do all the lumping, the big splitters are Russians & East Europeans

Michael

[christineredgate]

Why does everyone have to have a list!!.Some birders came into the hide at Hodbarrow one day,and said to me had i seen anything interesting!!.I was actually watching the grebes with their young being carried around on the parents back and pointed the birds out to them.Oh said they,we have seen them before,anything really interesting.i spent at least 30 mins one day,watching a mum seagull with a mussel and her offspring next to her.Youngster,kept trying to get to the shellfish,mum kept pushing him away whils,t she banged it up and down to take the fish out of the shell ready for junior to eat,and this went on for at least 30 mins.i found it fascinating,and made my birdwatching day complete.I may try a count,as we have the sea birds and waders,plus lots of finches,pipits and garden birds so,yes could be interesting,but these people who wander round frantically from one hide to another ticking off on their lists,do they really see the birds they are watching?.

[James Armstrong]

153 approx. on UK list. Don't get abroad much as I hate flying! (There's an irony in there somewhere). Most of those within the last three years. Need to go sea-bird watching as I haven't seen that many. Live quite near Dungeness so there's a few rarities I've seen. e.g Audouin's Gull, Great Reed Warbler. I love the thrill of seeing a new bird - you know, the wonder of a living creature you've never met before. It's magic!

[Charles Harper]

You kind of answered Christine without trying, James! Some of us get so addicted to the thrill of the new bird that we tend to overlook the quotidian ones. On the other hand, after you've watched a 'seagull' dismember a crab many times, you tend not to focus on that experience so much. An equitable balance is what we should strive for, I suppose, but...

[Rob]

To answer CJW and others (and excuse me for my poor english!)

OK the Dutch are splitters, but I thought many Dutch splits have been followed in GB. And yes there is an umbrella body called the CSNA (committee on taxonomy, nomenclature and status of Dutch (sub)species).

There are 472 species at the Dutch list and our top lister (Klaas Eigenhuis) has 436 species. So with my my 399 I have still a long way to go.

The following are splits that may have effected my personal Dutch list when you compare it to the GB list (although I do not know anything about the recent status of these species in GB)

Tundra Bean Goose - Anser serrirostris
Pale-bellied Brent Goose - Branta hrota
Black Brant - Branta nigricans
Lesser Black-backed Gull - Larus graellsii
Yellow-legged Gull - Larus michahellis
Pontic Gull - Larus cachinnans
Yellow Wagtail - Motacilla flavissima
Grey-headed Wagtail - Motacilla thunbergi
Iberian Chiffchaff - Phylloscopus ibericus

You can find more inormation about the Dutch list ad ranking at 'my' website www.dutchbirding.nl

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Rob,

Out of that lot, Iberian Chiffchaff already is split here, the Bean Geese might get split, the Brent Geese almost certainly won't, the Yellow Wagtail group probably won't, LBB Gull might, and the YL Gulls almost certainly will.

The most likely splits to come next over here will probably be Siberian Stonechat and Greenland Whitefront Goose, as there's been recent published data on both of them.

Umbrella bodies - I think Charles meant for the whole of Europe / West Palaearctic, not just the Netherlands. In the same way that the AOU covers the whole of the Nearctic Region.

Michael

[Geraldine]

I'm with you, Christine. But I must start a list. I suppose because James keeps one, I've been a bit lazy, but I remember and treasure all the moments. And I could spend the rest of my life watching red kites wheeling overhead, or snipe trying to blend in to the reeds, without ever getting bored!

:hippy:

[logos]

The fundamental difference between the Dutch and the British when it comes to taxonomy is one of differing species concepts. In very broad terms the CSNA (Dutch taxonomic body) follow the Phylogenetic Species Concept which means that any population of birds with distinct characteristics are classed as a separate species. The BOU taxonomic subcommittee follow the Biological species concept (BSC) which defines species as populations which are reproductively isolated from other other populations. More recently the BOU tax subcomm have issued a statement about the ways in which they will go about determining species limits in the future, this is predominantly BSC based but takes on board considerations arising from various species concepts. This statement is here:

http://www.bou.org.uk/sppguidelines.pdf

This is likely to prove to be a very significant document!

Spud

PS. listers love the PSC because it creates many more species and does away with the concept of subspecies but serious scientists (especially those interested in other fields than ornithology) can be quite scathing about the PSC.

[Michael Frankis]

Originally posted by logos
PS. listers love the PSC because it creates many more species and does away with the concept of subspecies but serious scientists (especially those interested in other fields than ornithology) can be quite scathing about the PSC.

Particularly those dealing with Homo sapiens! - under the PSC, that species can be split into half-a-dozen . . .

Michael

[Charles Harper]

Thanks, gentlemen-- this thread is a saver. And, Rob-- that's a great Osprey!

[logos]

"A good mate of mine is over 5,000(!) including finding a new species for science (Buloberti Boubou, a kind of shrike in Africa)."

Must admit I'd not heard of this CJ, even Buloberti is a new one on me, could you give us some details?

Spud

[Michael Frankis]

That didn't work . . . tried putting 'Buloberti Boubou' into google, and got one result . . .

this thread!

Michael

[Option1]

I must admit I still think of "species" in terms of my old school and Uni zooloogy definitions: "animals that can't interbreed and produce offspring capable of reproduction." To use the simplest and most common example - horses and donkeys can breed with each other, but the offspring are sterile. Therefore, they're separate species.

I guess things have been redefined since then, I must do some research as to the current definition.

Neil

[Michael Frankis]

The current definition of species:

Whatever you want a species to be.

That's truer than it sounds!

Michael

[Option1]

I can well believe it Michael. Shame really.

Neil

[logos]

"I must admit I still think of "species" in terms of my old school and Uni zooloogy definitions: "animals that can't interbreed and produce offspring capable of reproduction." To use the simplest and most common example - horses and donkeys can breed with each other, but the offspring are sterile. Therefore, they're separate species."

Actually that is the Biological Species Concept, though it was viewed as less of a concept and more as THE definition of a species until differing concepts emerged. The BOU link given above gives a short summary of each concept.

Spud

[logos]

I'm still broadly supportive of the BSC myself but the reliance on knowing whether different species will hybridise and produce fertile offspring is obviously difficult to determine, especially when there is actually no evidence that certain similar species actually meet (i.e. are allopatric).

In addition several species, most notably certan ducks, do hybridise and produce fertile offspring and are still regarded as separate so the BSC has never been very rigorously followed.

Spud

[Michael Frankis]

Hooded Crow (Corvus cornix) x Carrion Crow (Corvus corone) hybrids are fertile too, and there's plenty of them, down to the nth generation, where the two meet, but for some reason, though as fertile as their parents, they don't prosper and the hybrid zone doesn't expand as it 'should'. No-one knows why, yet.

I guess this is one of the trickiest definings of 'species'.

Michael

[logos]

The same is true of Golden-winged and Blue-winged Warblers, the hybrids and backcrosses between these two have even been given names. There are numerous other examples.

The whole concept of a species is of course a human construct designed to allow us to label and categorise things, or in otherwords, to make lists....

Spud

[Charles Harper]

Love it, Spud! Absolutely: a vicious circle. Man originally knew just two kinds of birds, edible and inedible.

[CJW]

Originally posted by logos


Must admit I'd not heard of this CJ, even Buloberti is a new one on me, could you give us some details?

Spud

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you guys, but here' what I have on the "new" shrike:
August 1988, EFGSmith (my friend), saw a shrike in a hospital grounds on the edge of Bulo Burti on the Shabeelle River (Somalia), which he could not identify. It stayed in the area for many weeks and it was eventually decided to trap the bird with the potential of DNA sequencing on 5th January 1989. It was photographed, video filmed and tape-recorded. The blood sample taken was lost (doh!) but as it spent quite a while in captivity, sufficient material was found in feathers it had lost during that time.
Unfortunately because of civil unrest in Somalia the bird couldn't be released back into it's area of capture and was actually taken to Germany during the evacuation of non-native peoples (or something like that).
The DNA results showed it to be a new species for science closely related to Tropical Boubou (Laniarius aethiopicus) and was given the Name Bulo Burti Boubou (Laniarius liberatus) - sorry about the original spelling, I was working off memory....
Anyways, to cut a long and often political story short, the bird was eventually released back into similar habitat (rivrine acacia woodland) not far from where it was first seen some 14 months earlier.
This remains the only ever record of the species, with (I believe) less than ½ dozen people having seen it in the wild. (Let's not start that one again!).

[Rob]

Originally posted by Rob
My Dutch list is 399, the next one must be very special and whithout any doubt a true vagrant!

Well, number 400 turned up yesterday. An immature Blue Rock Thrush, a first for the Netherlands!

There is a picture in the gallery:

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11256

[Michael Frankis]

Congrats Rob, well done!

Michael

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Hello there,

I have something of a listing decision to make at the moment as regards recent splits. I think I'm right in saying that the BOU has separated Carrion Crow and Hooded Crow. If I go along with this it would take my British List to the 'magic' 300. I'm a bit sceptical about the split though (although I tend to think that taxonomy is all a bit of an 'artificial human construction' anyway) particularly as I've seen so many Hybrid Crows. Still, this would mean that the terrific (and frankly rather jammy) Great Shearwater that I saw screaming past Fife Ness a couple of weeks ago would be my number 300. And a worthy one too, although it's taken me 25 years to notch up.

For the record these are some current lists that I keep:

British: 299/300
British found list: c.250 depending how strict I am with myself
Fife: 191
Scottish: 230
Northamptonshire (where I grew up): 201
Western P: 419
Life List: ? Maybe around 700
2003 Year List: 166

Okay I suppose, considering I've never had a car and I've not been able to afford regular foriegn trips.

My idealistic view of listing (although not necessarily what I practice) would be that if you can distinguish a separate form in the field then you should count it. Then what's most central are identification skills (more important to birdwatchers) than decisions (based on rather abstract arguments) made by scientists. I suppose this means I should split Hoodie and Carrion then. Maybe I can even tick Hybrid Crows?

[Charles Harper]

You can tick anything you want to, of course. The way I view it, there are those who make the taxonomic decisions, and I am not one of them. So I try to see and tick what they say are valid species-- of the moment-- and then be sure I keep records of what else I see, for when they change their minds. I just spent £800 to see a bird that wasn't a bird ten years ago, when I could have seen it for about £10.

PS: Woops! Pardon me for not welcoming you properly to Birdforum-- I see it's your first post, and a thoughtful one. I look forward to your further comments.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Fifebirder,

Welcome to Birdforum and Congrats on the 300! Great Shear's a good one, I still need that for Northumberland, my 300th Northumbrian was a Fea's Petrel found while hoping that a Great Shear (which had gone past 2 days before) would do a second circuit of the North Sea.

Michael (also a non-driver)

[Michael W]

Hello,
I'm at 397 for USA and Canada. If I count Hawaii, it puts me up to 421. My last two birds were Kentucky Warbler and Wood Thrush on a trip back to the eastern states. When we left, I was at 383. My goal was to make it to 400 and I ended three short. :-C Maybe next time!

Thanks!
Michael

[Highway Man]

I only keep 2 lists my british list (460) and my patch list (180). My local patch is pretty land locked, at least 70 miles from the coast.

Mark

[postcardcv]

Well I managed to break past 300 on my British list this year (now at 302) - least sand at Tring was number 300 (at the same site as I got my 200th many years ago).

This years list is now 206 (two more today) hoping to beat last years 227.

[Larry Lade]

The Sabine's Gull I saw a couple of days ago at Smithville Lake south of Saint Joseph, Missouri put my State List at 332 and my Missouri Year 2003 List at 253. It was really a "neat" bird!

Larry :t:

[Michael Frankis]

[European] Storm Petrel on my pelagic trip yesterday (Saturday) was #219 on my Northumberland year list. Wondering what #220 will be now . . .

Michael

[SammyB]

Gosh some of these lists are amazing i only have 209 as a life list england and spain in may this year.
Only got a small bird book as pressie four years ago & only really started birding seriously the last 2 years, though please to say I have outgrown 1st bird book & moved to better things

[Steve Gross]

I really only keep track of three lists:

ABA: 525
Texas: 421
Texas 2003: 371

I've done no international birding to speak of.

I'm pretty pleased with the Texas and TX 2003 lists. I've done a decent amount of birding in the western US, excepting California (which by itself could bring my ABA list above 550 in one well organized trip).

Florida and the New England coast would certainly bring me close to 600. From there, several more trips to Alaska would be in order, as would pelagics in the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico, and the Pacific. I know that my budget can't compete with the real hard-core listers, but I think that I hold my own.

Steve in Houston

[Dave B Smith]

A recent trip to Huatulco added 14 to my list bringing it up to 343. My most wanted finally appeared, the Ferruginous Pygmy-Owl.
I had heard it very close on a previous search but had come home empty handed that time.

[birdman]

Sorry to butt in folks, but just wanted to wish SammyB a warm WELCOME to BirdForum on behalf of the Moderators and the Admin Team.

Why not say a few lines about yourself in "Say Hello..." and wait for a few more hellos?

As for your list.. well last count you're about 30 in front of me!

[Tim Allwood]

only one list – my world list
I’ve seen one or I aint
and I don’t even have the time to keep just this one up-to-date what with all the taxo changes etc going on everywhere at present

[Stringer]

is anyone else's life list getting smaller? Just lost Honey Buzzard, but learned a lot from the thread......thanks guys!

Despite my name, I try hard not to string, honest!

But I am reviewing my list. I have seen s t treecreeper at least twice, but could only identify it by the metal ring on its leg....courtesy of Dungeness BO......Can i count that? (no, it never called). Also, my Scottish Crossbill, which I saw on a organised Birding holiday, and was identified by a very experienced Scottish birder. Can I count that? Is it even a species?

I realise in the final analysis that I dont care! I love seeing birds, and learning about birds from better birders although as I have said before I hate birding snobs.........not come across many on here though (thanks again), and I get it wrong sometimes.

So with a pinch of salt, I have 796 on my British list. 453,965 on my WP list. 5,987,964 on my world list, and the last bird I ticked was a flyby Great Auk.

PS never discuss the identification of skuas......OK!!

[CJW]

Originally posted by Stringer

But I am reviewing my list. I have seen s t treecreeper at least twice, but could only identify it by the metal ring on its leg....courtesy of Dungeness BO......Can i count that?



Entirely up to you stringer! Personally, if I can't see what makes a bird a certain species I won't tick it - I like to learn from them and to tick something because someone told me it was a 'such and such' but not why, seem a little pointless. But that's a personal thing.

Originally posted by Stringer
PS never discuss the identification of skuas......OK!!

Depends who you discuss them with ;)

[Grousemore]

A very honest posting,Stringer (apart from the conclusion!)

I'm sure that when a lot of us revisit our early 'lifers' there is an element of doubt and/or reliance on someone else's identification associated with the 'tick'?

Fortunately the 'birding snobs' you allude to normally stand out a mile and can be easily avoided thereafter.

Perhaps it is their 'uniform' as well as the loud voice!

[christineredgate]

I'll give you my list after the GGBC this coming weekend!!.
Christine.

[shykra]

Some great numbers in here. Myself 463 World, USA 285, and Japan 59, but I have only just started in Japan. My last species added were European Roller and Chestnut-bellied Sandgrouse while at Masirah Island Oman. Being in the US Military I travel to the far reaches of the planet and it has given me some great opportunities for birds. My biggest regret was not bringing a field guide when I went to Africa; I saw 100s of birds and did not get 1 positive ID. For those with the relatively new lists I envy you, your adventure into birding will be fast and furious and that is what will get you hooked and prepare your patients for when things slow down. Even though I do have lists of all types I still enjoy the birds I have seen thousands of times. I have two young boys and showing them the birds I have already seen keeps the excitement new. I myself encourage lists just for the memories they create, as I go back through my list of names it reminds of the places I’ve been, people I have met and the wild and enjoyable times birding has created for me. Good luck everyone this weekend and I hope we all add new birds to whatever list you keep.

[Edward]

I reached the personal landmark of 400 on my world list at the weekend. Crack open the champagne! The last ten are as follows:

Hobby - 30 August - UK
Spotted Redshank - 30 August - UK
Yellow Warbler - 11 September - Iceland
Sooty Shearwater - 13 September - Iceland
Sabine's Gull - 14 September - Iceland
Lesser Yellowlegs - 24 September - Iceland
Least Flycatcher - 7 October - Iceland
Baltimore Oriole - 8 October - Iceland
Alder Flycatcher - 10 October - Iceland
Black-throated Blue Warbler - 18 October - Iceland

I've been lucky enough to see 72 lifers this year, 59 in Spain, 2 in the UK (Cheshire) and 11 in Iceland (Black Kite, Long-tailed Skua and Surf Scoter in addition to the eight above) and have now seen 170 species in Iceland (15 new this year).

Red-flanked Bluetail would be nice next but I wouldn't be against a humble Tree Pipit either!

E

[Billy Boy]

I've been birding and keeping lists 'properly' for around 18 months but I have been interested in birding for longer than that. As I don't drive I guess that I am limited to what and where I can go. On reading everyones lists I feel a bit embarassed that my life list is a paltry 102. I was up for going on this trip Sunday but can't because of family commitments, but if any more come up and i'm able to get to them, then i'm more than willing.

Billy Boy

[Birdingam]

Just read this thread for the first time. Some interesting comments and I tend to empathise with Mark D with some of his comments made back in July this year.

I've been birding now for over 30 years and have been lucky to get around the World and see some fantastic places and, of course, their birds. My life list currently stands at 1887 but thats been helped by trips to Africa and South America. I'm off to Sri Lanka shortly and hope to move closer to the 2000 mark but the most important thing to remember is that birding is birding wherever you are. I still get great enjoyment from walking the three mile route round my village, my local patch, and enjoying the common species I see every day.

We are all fortunate to share a great hobby that gets out into the fresh air and appreciating the birds whether it's a House Sparrow, Moorhen, Crowned Crane, Resplendent Quetzal or Andean Cock of the Rock. They are all their to be enjoyed.

[Fulmar]

Like Birdingam, I also just read this thread for the first time and found it interesting reading.

This is my listing story: encouraged by my father who had binoculars and a very simple guide book, I started listing at age 12 or so and continued to around 18 or so. That is way back in the 60s. My totals at the time reached 74 species, all in the Netherlands. Then interest went slumbering for around 15 years (girls, job, house, other hobbies, starting a family, etc). Next I photographed a bird here and there on foreign holidays, just in case I would pick up on birding again. A few years ago I resumed looking at birds a bit more seriously, and decided to build on my youth list (which I happily had kept).

Apart from current birding, I can also do a lot of serious armchair birding, as I have quite some bird photos and notes between the thousands of photos from holidays and other hobbies which I have never sorted out, and I travelled quite a lot. Originally I had 73 birds on my youth list, but I gratefully received an extra species by the split of the Hooded Crow (for which I had made a note at the time).

Then, on a 1979 picture in a marina in the Bahamas, I discovered a gull which I could easily identify as a Laughing Gull. I laughed too, because this was my 75th species, and the first after my youth list. Then, on a 1980 picture of some scenery in Jamaica, I discovered a few Cattle Egrets between some cows, wow, nr.76! On the same trip I added two other herons in the Cayman Islands, then later the same year I found 7 new species on pictures of a trip to the western USA. A surprise was that I had apparently forgotten to tick the Mallard in my youth, as that was a new one from this trip. Computer databasing and indexing has its advantages!

Then in 1981 a trip to the eastern USA was made, and in between the holiday pictures of wife and friends I found 13 new species. And that's as far as I am with sorting out my pictures. In the meantime I have added a lot of "loose" additions, and the total with those included is currently 392. But I know that I have quite a few more lurking between the unsorted photos, and discovering them gives me almost the same thrill as seeing them the first time in the wild. Twice the excitement for the price of one!

So my sorted-out totals stand currently at 98, and when I split them into countries it is:
Netherlands 74
USA 26
Cayman Islands 2
France 1
Bahamas 1
Jamaica 1

I'm not a twitcher and I will never be, because I am too lazy to drive 300km to see a Ring-billed Gull in the Netherlands when I saw thousands of them in Canada. And I might now and then miss a new tick because I am just enjoying observing a common bird instead of chasing a rarity. Actually, while typing this I look out of the window and see six House Sparrows enjoying a splash together in the bird bath where I just refreshed the water, while a few Great Tits [Ed: was Coal Tits, but that was a wrong translation from Koolmees] and a Blue Tit are on the feeders, and a Robin and a Dunnock are on the ground. Marvellous.

I have enclosed my very first bird photo (heavily cropped) of that Laughing Gull in the Bahamas.

Regards,
Peter

[Jane Turner]

My life list really isn't anything special... However I have self-found 288. I hope to make it to 300 though that will require a change of location, living to 250 or some spectacular splitting activity!

The above mentioned Southern Grey Shrike and Black Lark are the only birds to get me away from my local patch in the last two years.... oh and White-throated Sparrow, but that was only a mile away!

[Dave B Smith]

My life list is up to 353. My new lifers for this year stand at 82. Dead heat with last year's total of 82! Most of our travel these last 4 years has been long weekend trips to neighboring states here in Mexico. We have another little trip planned to Quintana Roo late November and hope to break 100 lifers for this year.

The three things that have added the most to my enjoyment (and knowledge) of birding have been the purchase of a Scope early this year, participating in BF forums, and keeping a list. I now look forward not only to seeing the birds, but especially "adding" to my list.

[pauliev69]

My life list that I started this year stands at 159 which includes a new edition today Pallas's warbler B (:

[hornet]

I've just found this thread and I love it. So much modesty from some serious experts whose lists are often testimony to a lifetime of study and dedication. I say, if you've got a big one, be proud of it. ;)

My own modesty is well earned - as a newbie of just six months, I've reached 107 (UK only). With advice and support from forum members I look forward to watching it grow.

[jada dulo]

Good thread this ... so I revived it !! ( Got it off the new version ) ... my old list was 224 species , started when I was 10 and ended somewhere in my early twenties about 10 or so years ago ! I began birding again last year and decided to start my life list from zero . I managed 197 species last year ( and not a single twitch ) . But early this year I decided one or two were 'debatable' . So off went Snow Goose , Red-brested Goose , Yellow-legged Gull ( not 100% on this bird at the time , so away it went ) and Temminck's Stint ( simply a poor ID on my behalf on this last one ). So that dropped me back down to 193 ! But already this year I have added Crossbill , Ring Ouzel , Mediterrranean Gull , Black-necked Grebe and a definate Yellow-legged Gull !! Taking me to a current UK life list of ... 198 species !! Just 2 more and I'm in my next centuary !

[columbidae]

It's great to see this thread brought back, because I got a real charge out of seeing that in just over a year since the thread started, my life list has doubled--from 70 to 141! I'm really hoping to reach 200 by the end of the year, although it might be hard, as I don't live in the most bird-rich area.

[interested]

Lifelist: 593... Last ones (#593: Ardeola ralloides) from Greece one week ago.
National list: 259 - last one (Coccothraustes coccothraustes) years ago... From some twelve months in USA I have got almost as much as from 360 months in Finland... From one visit to Thailand more points as some ten visits to my neighbouring country of Sweden.... Which is the only place I've seen Strix nebulosa!... I've visited Estonia as much, and have over 50 more birds from there than Sweden - and the country is ten times smaller (hence the birds concentrating on smaller plot?). One-point countries to me are Bosnia-Hercegovina, France and Mexico.

[david kelly]

1315.

This is in 20 years of birding and includes trips to Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Swaziland, Mozambique, Kenya, Zanzibar, Costa Rica, Western Canada, Arizona, Thailand, Goa, Tunisia and Tenerife.

The most ubiquitous species have been Peregrine Falcon, Osprey, Black Kite, House Sparrow, Common Starling and Hoopoe.

[Tero]

"...as much as from 360 months in Finland..."

Our sympathies are with you. But our ancestors did not have even 12 months away. I would gladly spend 90 months of those 360 there, the Junes Julys and Augusts. ;)

[samuel walker]

Remember the old days when you first started and nearly every outing got you a lifer.I started my list by ticking off the childhood birds of Ohio robin, blue jay, etc.My list today stands at 178 The Cape May bird observatory gift shop had cool pins in denominations of "100" 200 and 300.Alas, my Oct visit to Cape May pushed me above 150 lifers no pin for that score
Sam

[weather]

Oh, the agony. I'm at 196 and my worst nightmare just happened. I've been keeping a record of every bird and location I have seen for the past 2 years. I've been using an application called "Bird in the hand" for my Palm Pilot. A couple of weeks ago I was no longer able to download to my computer and then I lost my damn Palm. I just purchased a new one in the hopes of it being able to restore all that I have on the computer. To my surprise, it seemed to be working last night. It was diligently synchronizing all info from my computer. I was getting ready to open a new bottle of Makers Mark Whisky in celebration, when I noticed it only recorded 165 birds!...How am I supposed to remember the 31 birds that are missing?

Mike

[interested]

Oh, the agony. I'm at 196 and my worst nightmare just happened. I've been keeping a record of every bird and location I have seen for the past 2 years. I've been using an application called "Bird in the hand" for my Palm Pilot. A couple of weeks ago I was no longer able to download to my computer and then I lost my damn Palm. I just purchased a new one in the hopes of it being able to restore all that I have on the computer. To my surprise, it seemed to be working last night. It was diligently synchronizing all info from my computer. I was getting ready to open a new bottle of Makers Mark Whisky in celebration, when I noticed it only recorded 165 birds!...How am I supposed to remember the 31 birds that are missing?

Mike
Just browsing bird guide usually brings to my mind last sightings... Which Palm are You using? In case You find the lost one, donations accepted ;) . I am using ancient M100, which helpfully every now & then reminds me how important it is to have observations printed or written on paper...

[weather]

Just browsing bird guide usually brings to my mind last sightings... Which Palm are You using? In case You find the lost one, donations accepted ;) . I am using ancient M100, which helpfully every now & then reminds me how important it is to have observations printed or written on paper...

I was using an old Vx. I was just beginning to put all my sightings on paper for fear of this happening. Define irony?...
I bought the new tungsten e. Now my computer is freezing up in the middle of a hotsync. Maybe I'll just take up needlepoint....

Mike

[columbidae]

Oh, the agony. I'm at 196 and my worst nightmare just happened. I've been keeping a record of every bird and location I have seen for the past 2 years. I've been using an application called "Bird in the hand" for my Palm Pilot. A couple of weeks ago I was no longer able to download to my computer and then I lost my damn Palm. I just purchased a new one in the hopes of it being able to restore all that I have on the computer. To my surprise, it seemed to be working last night. It was diligently synchronizing all info from my computer. I was getting ready to open a new bottle of Makers Mark Whisky in celebration, when I noticed it only recorded 165 birds!...How am I supposed to remember the 31 birds that are missing?

Mike

Do you jot down any notes in the field? You could go back and reconstruct your list from any notes you made, even if it is only some scraps of paper. I have my life list and year list on the computer (a simple Excel spreadsheet), but I would never dispense with my notebooks, no matter how digitized I might get. I trust paper more than I could ever trust technology.

[Dave B Smith]

Mike,
Good luck finding the missing birds and I hope for the best.

However, this is a good reminder to everyone of the importance of backing up documents, whether electronic or written. I use an Access data base for all my sightings, and I also pass info on life birds to an excel spreadsheet in case the Access program is ever damaged. I then print this life list out once a year to have it in hard copy.

I know a number of members that just keep their lists scribled in the pages of their field guides. Maybe a photocopy of this would be a good idea after several years of records are entered. Even field guides do get lost.

[weather]

No I didn't keep any field notes. For some reason, Americans just aren't big on that. Thanks for trying to help though.

Mike

[samuel walker]

[called "Bird in the hand" for my Palm Pilot. A couple of weeks ago I was no longer able to download to my computer and then I lost my damn Palm. I just purchased a new one in the hopes of it being able to restore all that I have on the computer. To my surprise, it seemed to be working last night. It was diligently synchronizing all info from my computer. I was getting ready to open a new bottle of Makers Mark Whisky in celebration, when I noticed it only recorded 165 birds!...How am I supposed to remember the 31 birds that are missing?

Mike[/QUOTE]QUOTE=weather]Oh, the agony. I'm at 196 and my worst nightmare just happened. I've been keeping a record of every bird and location I have seen for the past 2 years.
I've been using an application
Those little slots in the body of the computer tower do amazing things Always nice to back up the field journal and the life list to a floppy disc. Hard drives do fail.
Sam

[Birdspotter]

My world list went past the 1000 mark on a trip to Goa,India in Feb of this year.
As for my British list,well after reaching the 418 mark I just thought whats the point so much so I didnt even flinch for the Black Lark. Perhaps this was due to an increasing awareness of my Scottish list and the amount of clowns I was encountering at some twitches, including one who trampled some flowers for a COMMON Rosefich !!!!
So I now keep a Scottish list(346) and a Lothian list(264), however even these are basicly just lists that involves twitching somebody elses finds so I recently counted up my find list(219) or if I was not so strict(c240).
But whatever just enjoy the birds that are on your lists whether its 1 or 1000+. B (:

[Alastair Rae]

But whatever just enjoy the birds that are on your lists whether its 1 or 1000+. Definitely. I love birding abroad and seeing new birds. But the bigger my world list gets, the more I enjoy just seeing and hearing the familiar birds at home.

I know that when I go out, I'm very unlikely to see a new species. I could be a twitcher on a constant quest for novelty but I choose to be more laid back. One or two Brit ticks a year and no dashing about.

That said, I'm thinking about going to South America for the first time next year. Tick fest here we come ...
:D

[Larry Lade]

Similarly to Birdspotter, I too went over 1000 world birds in February of this year. My trip was to Kenya, East Africa. I enjoyed getting to see new birds both there and in England where we had a 12 hour layover in our flight to Africa. I believe this world view of birds only tends to enhance my enjoyment of the birds here at home. I received a lot of satisfaction from discovering the nest recently of Scarlet Tanagers. This bird is rather elusive (for me, at least) and also seems to evade other birders as well. So being able to locate their nest has enlivened my local birding. At times, it seems I become a little jaded about our local birds, taking for granted the Northern Cardinal, Rose-breasted Rosebeak or Indigo Bunting, for example. * (Here in Missouri these are very common birds). Then I realize that there are some people who would love to see these birds and for these persons these birds would really be special.

OK, I am done rambling for a while.

[Sarel]

How big is your L I S T ???

Does it realy matter? South Africa has got 900 odd species. but for some reason i don't care how many I have seen. If i do see the Southern Yellow billed Hornbill 100 times, i can always look at it for minutes! And i i have seen it 200 times, i still think the same about the bird!
I dont think bird watching means: How many birds can i see in my life, bur i think how can you enjoy watching birds!

just my oppinion!

Thanx
Sarel

[Tero]

I back up my list of..under 200..by printing the list every few months. I could probably make up the list from memory without dates of course.

[mini-colster]

Hi,
i have counted 238 species on my lifelist, with 211 of them being in britain. my last lifer was pallas's warbler on october 26th in norfolk.
cheers, mark

[David Bryant]

My life-list is 400+, all UK, apart from a Little Shearwater mid channel! Which prompts the question: can you (should you be a serious lister, which I'm not!) count seabirds seen from pelagics?????? If yes, I'll put the LS in with the others! LOL!
To me, a list is not a 'trophy' to trot out loudly in a hide at Titchwell, but, more usefully, a record of things I've seen and where and when I saw them! I met my missus birding and had some real hoots with my mates too! Aaaah! Snowy Owl impersonating a snowman at Skegness! Feeding chocolate to a Nutcracker near Stoke! Finding a Lancie in Norfolk and showing it to five mates! It ran over my foot too! Must get out birding more! LOL!

[Darren Oakley-Martin]

As I think David intimates, life lists aren't that important. The context within which you see the bird perhaps IS. I've never seen a Snowy, and I certainly haven't had a LW run over my foot.............but they must be worth more than a few ticks in circumstances such as those!

Experience of the bird first, and the tick a long distance third anybody?

Regards,

[David Bryant]

As I think David intimates, life lists aren't that important. The context within which you see the bird perhaps IS. I've never seen a Snowy, and I certainly haven't had a LW run over my foot.............but they must be worth more than a few ticks in circumstances such as those!

Experience of the bird first, and the tick a long distance third anybody?

Regards,

Right on, Darren! A LONG distance!

[calbirder]

My list is standing at 35 right now as I have yet to venture out of my immediate neighborhood woods.

[fbeeldens]

Finally managed to add them all up: 739 species. Seen about 280 of 'em here in the low countries (Belgium and the Netherlands).

[dennis]

My life list stands at 857.

Most memorable......Plate-billed Mountain Toucan In the western Andes of Ecuador

Favorite name of species seen........Superciliared Hemispingus

Southern Arizona this year...tick,tick,tick

Dennis

[Dave B Smith]

I enjoy watching my local birds but have to admit, I also get a thrill every time I see a new "lifer" and add him to my list. Last year I made a real effort to see as many birds in my area as possible (my first real year list) and it really improved my knowledge of the local birds. This year, I'm actively trying to find "new" birds. In 10 years of birding my list has grown to 676. My favorites are the Neotropicals. Give me a Toucan, Trogon, or Mot Mot any day!

[Tim Allwood]

I have a fairly decent world life list but at the moment i don't know the total to the nearest few hundred though and can't be bothered to count.

I'm very much with David and Darren here..... It's more about the fantastic places birding has taken me, even to the extent of working overseas to see exotic birds, the marvellous scenery and wildlife and the shared experiences and scrapes i've gotten in with mates and girfriends in places i only ever dremed about going as a young birder in Derbyshire

Tim

great memories at the moment are Andean Condor at Machu Picchu and an incredible sunset on Flores, eastern Indonesia and seeing Whooper Swans come in off the sea at Waxham one snowy morning. And any day in east Norfolk.

Tim

[Gill Osborne]

Oh help...my Life List is really puny after these huge figures LOL But hey, I get just as much pleasure in watching a House Sparrow or Moorhen or Chaffinch at my feeders.
My Life List is on 171 now and I'm aiming to reach 200 by the end of the year.

At the end of the day though...who actually cares about having a HUGE life list....I'd love to have the time and cash to do as much birding as I would like to but unfortunately I have to spend the odd bit of time with my hubby LOL He might take rather a dim view of having a part-time wife LOL It's bad enough that if I'm not out birding then I'm on Bird Forum!!! Or writing to nature loving penpals or reading books and magazines about wildlife ;)
As somebody has already said it's the getting outside and experiencing the natural world first-hand which is the main thing! :bounce:

GILL

[Nightjar61]

My Life List is at 725 and ABA Area/North America List is at 578. Trips this year to Kazakhstan and Southeast Arizona should give me lots of great birds, not to mention gorgeous scenery.

Dave

[Wan2caTanager]

At this moment I have 138 life birds. I am hoping to see some more this spring....
~Mandy

[crispycreme]

200 by the ABA, 201 ignoring the ABA (includes the Peach-faced Lovebird, which has successfully set up camp here in town and is included in some guidebooks). 200th bird (acquired the day prior to this post - hence my interest in sharing it) was a Le Conte's Thrasher. |=)|

[jurek]

How big is my...?

I never exactly measured, but I am within top 20 in my country. However, I find it better to talk about it vaguely and without the actual numbers, because more girls look at me with hidden terror than are impressed.

We are talking about lists, naturally ;)

[Blackstart]

How big is my...?

I never exactly measured, but I am within top 20 in my country. However, I find it better to talk about it vaguely and without the actual numbers, because more girls look at me with hidden terror than are impressed.

We are talking about lists, naturally ;)
Top 20 in Germany or Poland, Jurek?

Glad to see your sense of humor also returned from India.

Welcome back!

-Adam

[jurek]

Nice to see you all back. :) :) I will drop some India questions from time to time, as soon as I get out of most urgent things!

PS. Still not counted how IT increased last month. ;)

[Blue Jay]

My life list is at 193 for my province with twenty rare and... well, I don't exactly know what my world list is at but I know it's over 400.

[JeffMoh]

How big is your L I S T ???

Does it realy matter? South Africa has got 900 odd species. but for some reason i don't care how many I have seen. If i do see the Southern Yellow billed Hornbill 100 times, i can always look at it for minutes! And i i have seen it 200 times, i still think the same about the bird!
I dont think bird watching means: How many birds can i see in my life, bur i think how can you enjoy watching birds!

just my oppinion!

Thanx
Sarel

A lot of people I know make a distinction between "birders," who (it seems) are mainly concerned with seeing the maximum number of species, and "birdwatchers," who are more concerned with the behavior and beauty of birds than with listing species observed. I keep a not-terribly-accurate list of species I've seen but I view myself as more of a birdwatcher than a birder.

I think you could add another category, called something like "technobirders." These are the people who are more concerned with their optics and recording devices than with the birds that they view and record!

Jeff

[Chris C]

A lot of people I know make a distinction between "birders," who (it seems) are mainly concerned with seeing the maximum number of species, and "birdwatchers," who are more concerned with the behavior and beauty of birds than with listing species observed. I keep a not-terribly-accurate list of species I've seen but I view myself as more of a birdwatcher than a birder.
Jeff


Yes, though the distinction gets fuzzy--I definitely list, but more as a way of improving my ID and general birding skills. Keeping a list has drastically improved my sense of seasonal timing of birds, biogeography, and taxonomic relationships.

I have several other friends who claimed for a long time not to list, but when pressed just happened to produce an rather precise number for year and life totals. I suspect there are quite a few 'closet listers' out there :)

(BTW my ABA list is 313. Shhh, don't tell).

C

[Larry Wheatland]

Hi all.

Bit of a listopath myself, and sometimes feel like my life would be better if I wasn't so nerdy about it, but nothing in birding gives me a bigger buzz than finding and IDing a new species, especially if it's following a hunch and involves wading a stream or getting lost in some muddy bit of jungle or clambering up a mountain. I just don't get the same buzz if it's a good bird and I'm proud at IDing it, but it's not a tick.... Not that I don't appreciate and love all birds of course ! Twitching a known individual at an exact known spot doesn't do it for me though, so I rarely do.

I'd like to take some issue with an earlier writer on this thread, who reckons you have to be rich and hire guides to see more than 2000 species though.According to the 2000 edition of Clements I'm "on" 3624 seen and another 16 heard (you could add up to 130 or so splits if you like since then...oh the beauty of taxonomic analysis !), and I always do the independent public transport cheapskate thing when I'm lucky enough to have saved enough cash to travel. I'm sure there are other birders out there with much longer lists than mine that do it without guides too, but I seem to run into proportionately less unguided groups in my travels these days.

Any thoughts ?
I've no objection to people who do the bird tour thing and get huge lists with everything pointed out to them of course (or at least the uncertainty taken away !), I just think that personnally it takes half the fun out of it.

[SaVvy]

I just joined birdforum and was looking for a way to keep track of my life list (or other lists). I'm more of a birdwatcher, but was having a friendly competition with my Mom of the birding type - keeps us chatting. I haven't found any capabilities for listing on this site yet (other than adding to a forum). Please let me know if you know of such an on line tool. We're currently using a SW tool, but that's limiting, as we can't view each other's list.

[Tero]

You can be a birder and a birdwatcher both. Make it on alternate days. ;)

[Craig Houghton]

Hi all. I'm a beginner -- I began birding in December 2005 (little less than three months really) Nonetheless, despite actively birding at least three times each week at a variety of locations in my state (Connecticut), I've only managed 42 species. I'm honored to have seen every one of them, but I'm amazed at the size of everyone elses list. I'm hoping that the lack of diversity on my life list is, at least in part, due to winter.

Still though, I've seen how many species some of you have managed since the new year, so I'm not so sure I can fall back on the winter excuse. :) Perhaps an English winter doesn't take as great a toll on local diversity as a New England winter does.

-Craig

[columbidae]

Hi all. I'm a beginner -- I began birding in December 2005 (little less than three months really) Nonetheless, despite actively birding at least three times each week at a variety of locations in my state (Connecticut), I've only managed 42 species. I'm honored to have seen every one of them, but I'm amazed at the size of everyone elses list. I'm hoping that the lack of diversity on my life list is, at least in part, due to winter.

Still though, I've seen how many species some of you have managed since the new year, so I'm not so sure I can fall back on the winter excuse. :) Perhaps an English winter doesn't take as great a toll on local diversity as a New England winter does.

-Craig

Hi Craig,
I think with 42 species after only three months you are doing great! I checked back on my life list--like you, I began birding, and keeping a list, in the middle of winter, and it took me over three months to reach 20 species! Now, after about four years, I'm up to 202, which is not much compared to some on this forum, but I think pretty good considering the area that I live (central North Carolina, nowhere near the coast) and the fact that I'm not able to travel much for birding.

There are a lot of factors that affect how many species you see--as you pointed out, the season has a lot to do with it, as well as where you live. It's no coincidence that while the British birders on this forum are already well into the hundreds on their year lists, many of the North Americans are still well under 100. And of course experience helps too--the longer you do this, the easier it will be to find birds that you might have overlooked before.

[birdo]

i havent ever made a list but i want to start now after my experiences in belize.

i was wondering if there is an online birding list that you can use to organize your list better? anybody know?

[Nightjar61]

Since my last post on this thread on February 23, 2005, I have gone on birding trips to Kazakhstan, southeastern Arizona, the United Arab Emirates, Tunisia, southern England, and a southern California pelagic. My World List is up to 994 and my ABA Area List is up to 607.

I might do a North Carolina pelagic in August where I should break the 1,000 mark. I'm also considering a trip to Gambia and Senegal in early 2007.

Dave

[Tero]

It takes a little effort to get the first 100. Then you can easily do the same 100 every year, even in a small park or area that you call your patch.

I'm stuck with year lists that all look the same for Missouri. Need to get to some interesting habitat. But it means more time, more driving. My year list is smaller this spring as I did not have much time in April.

i was wondering if there is an online birding list that you can use to organize your list better? anybody know?

There are all kinds of software and there is a world bird checklist in a book form for under 30 dollars.

[columbidae]

I have had quite a good spring and have reached 208 on my life list. Before this spring it had sat at 201 for almost a year. All of the new birds were added right here within about 50 miles of Charlotte.

[The Devil Bird]

I need to sort out my lists. Here is what I think I have got
Life:170 (I think!)
Year:90ish
Garden:36ish
I think I have got a pretty good list for someone who has only been birding for a few years, is young and is restricted to south east england. But I am virtualy nothing to the top national listers. I keep my list mainly in the birdwatchers yearbook. It is the most acurate list chart I have seen around. It also alows me to make a month list each month and you can make up new columns.

[jada dulo]

As with others, my list isn't that good at all, but I only began birding at the end of 2003...still, here we go -

UK Life - 265 species.
2006 Year List - 194 species (pretty dire, I was on about 210 this time last year!!).
Patch List - (Life): 151 species & (Year): 117 species.

My concentration on my patch year list reflects on my general Year list.
Did my 'best' Year List last year with 236 species (40 lifers in that lot!!).
I've managed about 10 lifers so far this year, without doing any 'real' twitches.

[Joe Ray]

My British list is 157 since last August 2002 and the world list is 272 courtesy of the Kenya trip. I am quite proud of the British total despite it being small compared to top listers. I do not race around the country for ticks which is why is is not above 200.
Good on you Andrew :clap: , I too am a Devon birder, age 12, and have a British List of 158, also local patch list 73, 2006 list 130 (by 1st June), self-found and Devon lists both around 140. I'm most proud of my 46 garden list :king: , which includes Peregrine.
Good luck everyone,
Jyothi

[johnraven]

I'd like to take some issue with an earlier writer on this thread, who reckons you have to be rich and hire guides to see more than 2000 species though.According to the 2000 edition of Clements I'm "on" 3624 seen and another 16 heard (you could add up to 130 or so splits if you like since then...oh the beauty of taxonomic analysis !), and I always do the independent public transport cheapskate thing when I'm lucky enough to have saved enough cash to travel. I'm sure there are other birders out there with much longer lists than mine that do it without guides too, but I seem to run into proportionately less unguided groups in my travels these days.

Any thoughts ?
I've no objection to people who do the bird tour thing and get huge lists with everything pointed out to them of course (or at least the uncertainty taken away !), I just think that personnally it takes half the fun out of it.

I agree. I've done loads of cheap-skate birding while backpacking, and trying to ID strange looking birds in bug-filled thicket in some jungle backwater is to me the height of birding. Hardly any of my 2,271 world list (bit of a lister too) were identified by a guide. Basically, I'm not mentally strong enough not to tick something identified by a guide when I havent been able to identify it myself. If I was strong enough only to tick self-identified species then may be I would use guides - when I did once they doubled the number of species seen - but I'm not. And spending 20 minutes in the field trying to identify something that is probably quite obvious to a guide is fun to me.

Admittedly, I wouldn't be surprised if there were as many as 10 species on my list that are misidentified!

[grackle121]

US Life List: 123

Puerto Rico list: 16 (6 of which are also on my US list)

Worldwide total: 133

[Nightjar61]

I might