Urgent Spotting Scope Help Required

[AviationMan]

All,

Firstly let me say my interest in Birds is not great, it is more aviation related but the info I require would be best from those who use the tools I want to use, so please bare with me.

I really need some urgent help regarding spotting scopes and attachements for a digital SLR, the Nikon D70 to be precise.

What I am trying to achive is get some good quality pictures using a spotting scope and my D70 of aircraft at a high level 4000ft to 30000ft.

Over the last week I have been baffled by all the different kinds of scopes you can get and I am really uncertain which to choose as I want to choose the right equipment.

I guess all that I do know is that I need a fairly high powered scope with a lense diameter of atleast 80mm, 100mm preferable I think, I will also need a fairly decent zoom eyepeice and obviously the attachements for my camera.

I have also been baffled with ED? i guess a higher quality glass which I have been advised would be better for the shots I want to take. the models I have looked have been the Acuter 100mm scope and I have also been pointed in the direction of Opticron scopes. Again, I am stuck.

I dont want to be spending a complete fortune, but on the other hand I do want something that will give me clear crisp pictures. I really dont want to go over £500 if I can help it.

Once again, appologies for crashing your forum, but as Obi Wan once said. you are my only hope.

Lee

[Henry B]

Welcome to Birdforum,Lee. For £500 I,m sure you will have to go to the secondhand offers.More advice in a minute..hb

[KCFoggin]

Hello and welcome to BirdForum from those of us on staff here at BirdForum.

If it's moving subjects you are after with digiscoping, all I can say is good luck. Digiscoping works best with a static subject. Others might have some suggestions for you though. ;)

[AviationMan]

Hello and welcome to BirdForum from those of us on staff here at BirdForum.

If it's moving subjects you are after with digiscoping, all I can say is good luck. Digiscoping works best with a static subject. Others might have some suggestions for you though. ;)


Thanks guys for the quick replies, this is something I really want to give a good go at, so any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated :)

[AviationMan]

Would this combo be any good?

Opticron ES80 GA ED/45 Angled,40933 23-69x HR Eyepiece £477.95 ?

I would then need to get a camera adaptor? Not really sure what I am looking for on that score.

[Andy Bright]

Would this combo be any good?

Opticron ES80 GA ED/45 Angled,40933 23-69x HR Eyepiece £477.95 ?

I would then need to get a camera adaptor? Not really sure what I am looking for on that score.I think you're going to struggle in lots of ways, and I definitely recommend a genuine 500mm lens for what your trying to do... you could get Sigma 50-500mm secondhand for your budget and you will have auto focus.

If I'm reading things correctly, you wish to use the power of the scope+eyepiece.. in this case you will need a suitable lens attached to your camera, maybe a fast 50mm f1.4 in combination with a low powered eyepiece of 20x or less. The problem with this is mounting this lot on to the scope to make one unit to pan with the aircraft's flight (whilst manually focusing the scope)... rather you than me ;)

The other alternative is to replace the eyepiece with an slr adapter that turns the scope into something like a 1000mm f12+ manual focus lens. This way you do have the camera attached to the scope... but it's still not much fun for moving objects.

My advise, save up for a genuine lens... you can get some nice shots with 500mm, see attached (around 3-4000+ft height)

[Chris Oates]

Would this combo be any good?

Opticron ES80 GA ED/45 Angled,40933 23-69x HR Eyepiece £477.95 ?

I would then need to get a camera adaptor? Not really sure what I am looking for on that score.

Look at this web page

Opticron ES range (http://opticron.boson.posiweb.net/pages/page17.html)

at the bottom is the link for DSLR adaptors.

You will also need a rock solid tripod, a good panning head and technique - following moving objects isn't going to be easy when using the cameras small viewfinder which is also going to appear quite dim.

Bolting a DSLR onto a scope also doesn't take advantage of the scopes magnifying eyepiece which you will need for objects at 1 to 5 miles range.

I gather the long range stuff is done by shooting through the eyepiece with a lens on the camera but opinion is that small compact cameras do this better than DSLRs (apparently)

[AviationMan]

Thanks both Chris and Andy, problem I have is that I want to use the scope for plane spotting as well as using it with the camera, so I dont wont to fork out on a lense (i saw a Sigma 500 in london for £449) then buy a decent scope for another £500.

I wanted something that would suite both purposes.

So, if I connect my digital SLR directly to the scope and lets say its the Opticron I have mentioned above that will give me the performance of a manual focus i.e. I would need to focus the scope and see this action reflected in the view finder of the camera of about 1000mm?

That sounds good to me, i would obviously need a very good tripod but I get it would also be cheaper again than pluggin the camera into a eyepeice specifically for a camera?

I hope I am making sense. Just taken 2 morphine tablets for my bad back :)

Also, why is there such a differnce in price between the adaptors on that site. i am not completely sure what the difference is :P

[Henry B]

Would this combo be any good?

Opticron ES80 GA ED/45 Angled,40933 23-69x HR Eyepiece £477.95 ?

I would then need to get a camera adaptor? Not really sure what I am looking for on that score.
The zoom eyepiece would probably not work . I use a 23x hdf eyepiece with the es80 scope,conditions must be bright and use of a steady tripod is recommended. Opticron make a telephoto adapter which you would require along with a T2 mount for D/SLR cameras. I bought a sigma 50-500mm lens ,you can also use a teleconverter with this set-up,much easier to use for moving targets. hope this helps....hb

[Chris Oates]

I hope I am making sense. Just taken 2 morphine tablets for my bad back :)
:P

Oh dear - I know exactly how you are feeling - I suffered for 30 years until a severe spasm ruptured my sciatic nerve - my right foot now doesn't work like God intended but the pain has gone :)

I agree with everyone that a dedicated lens is much easier to use - I have a 170-500 Sigma which I got for £300 refurbished from Warehouseexpress (http://www.warehouseexpress.com/)
it gives me 750mm with the crop factor of the Nikon - you can add converters for more length.

Digiscoping a still object at a mile might work but picking up a moving plane, focusing, setting the camera manually, tracking, eliminating vibration all sound a recipe for frustration.

I've photographed low flying planes and helicopters using the Nikon's focus tracking with good results but stuff up high is not easy as the camera meters for the sky, you get colour blotching, nasty reflections of the sun and a sore neck.

Don't want to throw cold water on your desires.

[Yelvertoft]

Look at this web page

Opticron ES range (http://opticron.boson.posiweb.net/pages/page17.html)

at the bottom is the link for DSLR adaptors.

You will also need a rock solid tripod, a good panning head and technique - following moving objects isn't going to be easy when using the cameras small viewfinder which is also going to appear quite dim.

Bolting a DSLR onto a scope also doesn't take advantage of the scopes magnifying eyepiece which you will need for objects at 1 to 5 miles range.

I gather the long range stuff is done by shooting through the eyepiece with a lens on the camera but opinion is that small compact cameras do this better than DSLRs (apparently)


I'd add another vote for Andy's comments, I've usually found he's right after I've ignored his advice! I've tried digiscoping 'planes and found it to be tricky at the kind of ranges you'll be at to get frame filling shots. You can track and focus reasonably easily at longer ranges where the panning rate and rate of radial distance changes are lower, but at these longer ranges, the results are not wonderful. A digiscoping setup simply does not have the optical resolving power of a big SLR lens - it's a job a scope was never designed to do. This is really highlighted at longer ranges as most digiscoping birders will tell you if they've taken shots of birds at 200 yd.+ ranges, the results are invariably disappointing.

My advice, as you don't already have a scope, save up for a big SLR lens. If you want a scope for general observation and air shows (rather than digiscoping), buy a smaller, lighter, cheaper 2nd hand scope. There's usually some bargains to be had in the classifieds section of the forum.

Regards,

Duncan.

P.S. There does seem to be some affinity between birders and plane spotters. The two interests do seem to go hand in hand. May just be my perception here.

[Tyler Vargo]

First thing first, as a fellow low-budget aircraft photographer I'd like to say I feel where you're coming from.

Here's the main reason why you need a real lens, not a scope: You won't be digiscoping with that D70, it won't meter with a scope. So unless you like adjusting manual settings and taking shots then "chimping" to see if your exposure is right, I don't suggest digiscoping with the D70.

I'd say you should do as I am doing and save for a real lens, i.e. a Sigma 50-500mm.

[AviationMan]

Thanks for all the advice again chaps. I wonder if I could ask a favour of those of you who do have a Digital SLR that attaches to a scope. Could I ask that you take a photo of a mid to high level aircraft with your digiscope setup so I can see the quality of picture I would get? It may be suitable for my needs.

Lee

[Katy Penland]

I'm wondering if a celestial telescope wouldn't work better for what you're doing than a spotting scope? Especially for the higher altitude planes you're wanting to photograph. If you'll google "celestial photography" you'll find a ton of info on cameras, telescopes and technique that may be more effective for you. :t:

[AviationMan]

A telescope had been suggested Katy on an Aviation forum. But a bit too big for me. I would love to see a shot from someone on here of an Aircarft using a scope :)

[Henry B]

A telescope had been suggested Katy on an Aviation forum. But a bit too big for me. I would love to see a shot from someone on here of an Aircarft using a scope :)
What are other plane spotters using ?

[Andy Bright]

What are other plane spotters using ?From what I've seen at airports like Heathrow, the compact scopes like Mighty Midgets seem very popular... hardly ever see a tripod supported scope, usually handheld. I'd advise against using one of those shoulder pod scopes (Cape?)... you'd be riddled with holes before you could say Heckler & Koch :eek!:

[AviationMan]

Not really got anything from other spotters. The serious aviation photographers are using 500mm lenses, but I am not that serious :)


Well not at the moment.

[Andy Bright]

Not really got anything from other spotters. The serious aviation photographers are using 500mm lenses, but I am not that serious :)


Well not at the moment.
One thing that does occur to me is that maybe you want the scope to i.d. aircraft from long distances... with a dslr + 500mm lens you can take the shot zoom in and examine it on the monitor straight away and discover it's i.d. Just a thought.

[Otto McDiesel]

at airports like Heathrow,
I'd advise against using one of those shoulder pod scopes (Cape?)... you'd be riddled with holes before you could say Heckler & Koch :eek!:

Smart!!!

[AviationMan]

Maybe the best way then is simply a 500mm lens for piccies and a scope for general viewing

[postcardcv]

Maybe the best way then is simply a 500mm lens for piccies and a scope for general viewing

I think this is a good way to go. Have a look at the Sigma 170-500, currently only £399 at warehouseexpress, it's a really good lens and atthat price it's quite a bargain. You could then pick up a small scope like a Mighty Midget for viewing (should only be about £200 with eyepeice).

[AviationMan]

Right then. i went for the Sigma 170mm-500mm and also got the Opticron ES 80.


Skint :)

[Chris Oates]

Right then. i went for the Sigma 170mm-500mm and also got the Opticron ES 80.


Skint :)

Aha - skint but with a big smile on your face.

The 170-500 has a habit of extending itself when carried facing downwards - you can control this by fitting a big heavy duty rubber band on the barrel by the zoom ring - it acts like a brake.

[AviationMan]

Thanks Chris,

Just need to learn how to use the camera now. Its been on Sport or Auto mode since I have had it :)

[Chris Oates]

Thanks Chris,

Just need to learn how to use the camera now. Its been on Sport or Auto mode since I have had it :)

I'll tell you what I do
Start shooting in P mode first till you learn about A & S modes - this is still fairly automatic but allows you to customize settings while the camera tells the lens what to do.
Goto the setup menu select CSM menu and set it to detailed
Goto the CSM menu and select Autofocus set it to AFC (I'll explain that later)
Select Exp compensation ON (you can use the front dial for +/- EV
Select Command dial ON
Select AE-L/AF-L set to AF
....this is the bit that makes the D70 so easy to use whether you are shooting birds in a tree, a plane at high altitude or a duck swimming around.
With autofocus set to AFC and the AE-L/AF-L button set to AF the Shutter button now only meters the light and releases the shutter - it does not tell the lens to focus - you do that by pressing the AE-L/AF-L button - as long as your thumb is on the button the lens will now track focus whatever is under the centre focus point.
The point of this is that you can point the camera at a distant plane, press the AE-L/AF-L button to get focus, put the camera down, pick it up again point it at the plane press the shutter and get a picture - the lens won't try to refocus as that is controlled by the AE-L/AF-L button - this is important with monster zoom lenses as they are usually very slow and have a huge range to hunt through if you happen to miss the plane and point the camera at a distant piece of sky.
The other point is that the default focus method is now AFC so that if you keep the AE-L/AF-L button pressed whatever is under the central focus point will be tracked - ideal for close helicopters or wandering waders.
I use this system because a lot of my shots are taken from the back of a moving motorbike - it's much easier to grip the camera one-handed - focus with your thumb & press the shutter rather than try to 'half press' the shutter button and hold it there.

In the Shooting menu I select Image quality fine, Image size L and under Optimise Image Custom
Sharpening +2
Hue adjustment -3

I then press the WB button, select Auto with the rear dial and -2 with the front dial
This gets rid of the blue cast that is Nikons trademark

This time of year the ISO button gets a lot of use especially with long lenses - much better to get a sharp if noisy picture than a blurry one
ISO 320 - 640 or more.

If I haven't expained well enough (if anyone is interested) let me know and I'll go over it again.

[Yelvertoft]

I use this system because a lot of my shots are taken from the back of a moving motorbike - it's much easier to grip the camera one-handed

Now that's cool! My partner has taken many pics (with film compact camera) over the years from the back of my motorbike. She's never risked it with the SLR, film or digital. Kudos to Chris!

Duncan.

[AviationMan]

Chris, thanks so much for that. I will print this info out tommorow as its late now and it will wake the wife up.

I am going to see if I can get to Gatwick tomorrow to have a test run. Should be a bit easier now with those tips. I was getting fed up with the zoom trying to focus and by the time it did the aircraft was out of range.

Thanks again

Lee

[Chris Oates]

Now that's cool! My partner has taken many pics (with film compact camera) over the years from the back of my motorbike. She's never risked it with the SLR, film or digital. Kudos to Chris!

Duncan.

Haha - I figure the camera is just a tool, albeit an expensive one, and it's better out of the bag than in - it would be nice to stop every time we saw something interesting but that way we would never get to where we are going |;|
I used to use a Nikon 18-70 for this but now have a Sigma 10-20 so I don't really need to focus any more.

[Chris Oates]

Chris, thanks so much for that. I will print this info out tommorow as its late now and it will wake the wife up.

I am going to see if I can get to Gatwick tomorrow to have a test run. Should be a bit easier now with those tips. I was getting fed up with the zoom trying to focus and by the time it did the aircraft was out of range.

Thanks again

Lee

I'm not an expert but I have been playing with the Nikon for a year - weirdest plane shot I got was recently in isolated woods in rural Cornwall - 3 C130's with gear down came over so low we thought they were looking for firewood.

[AviationMan]

Excellent,

I guess practice is the key, keep shooting until you are happy with the results yourself, then start worrying what othe people think :)P