Canon S80 vs Nikon Coolpix 4300

[Skean]

Well I am starting this thread to let you know my first impressions of the canon S80 vs my aging nikon coolpix 4300 and I must say the nikon at this point is much better for digiscoping than the canon. I posted a couple of comparison pics and say under "controlled conditions" the nikon easily took better pics and in the field the nikon completely wipes out the canon. That said I may need more experiance with canon but I do not see how I am going to make my images as sharp with the canon as I get with the nikon. I believe that this is just a function of lens quality more than funtionality of the camera itself and learning how to use it.
Some quick points:
1. The canon is much more tempermental when it comes to focusing which negates any benefits from it being faster in terms of boot time and file storage you spend too much time trying to get the subject focused
2. The images are simply not as sharp with the canon and this is not a focus issue they should be considered seperate (lens not as good?)
3. The canon controls are better than the nikon (much more user friendly)
4. You can take good digiscoping pics with the canon
5. I use the handheld method to take my pics (not sure if this matters)
6. The color rendition seemed truer to me with the nikon
Now if anybody has made similar comparisons and arrived at another conclusion please let me know! I had very high hopes for this camera and at this point I will say I am dissapointed. I was hoping to get the same or better images and have the 8 megs of info to work with for larger prints. Point is if its not 8 megs of good info who cares? So for whats its worth those are my first thoughts. Would like to know what you think.
Richard M.
a.k.a. Skean

[Skean]

The attached pics were digiscoped at a distance of about 30' using a Zeiss scope with a 20-60x eyepiece. the names of the pic tells you which camera I used to take the pics with.
Richard M.

[steveblain]

1. The canon is much more tempermental when it comes to focusing which negates any benefits from it being faster in terms of boot time and file storage you spend too much time trying to get the subject focused
2. The images are simply not as sharp with the canon and this is not a focus issue they should be considered seperate (lens not as good?)
3. The canon controls are better than the nikon (much more user friendly)
4. You can take good digiscoping pics with the canon
5. I use the handheld method to take my pics (not sure if this matters)
6. The color rendition seemed truer to me with the nikon
Now if anybody has made similar comparisons and arrived at another conclusion please let me know! I had very high hopes for this camera and at this point I will say I am dissapointed. I was hoping to get the same or better images and have the 8 megs of info to work with for larger prints. Point is if its not 8 megs of good info who cares? So for whats its worth those are my first thoughts. Would like to know what you think.
Richard M.
a.k.a. Skean

Hi Richard,

First off you are leaping from a 4 megapixel image to an 8 magapixel image, this means that because its recording more image information, shake and vibrations are exaggerated a lot more. My recommendation would be to get an adapter and then try the comparisons again.

I have had my S80 for around a month now and am delighted with it!

Cheers

[Skean]

Hi Richard,

First off you are leaping from a 4 megapixel image to an 8 magapixel image, this means that because its recording more image information, shake and vibrations are exaggerated a lot more. My recommendation would be to get an adapter and then try the comparisons again.

I have had my S80 for around a month now and am delighted with it!

Cheers
Steve,
I am not sure what you mean when you say "shake and vibrations are are exaggerated a lot more" I may be missing something here but is not 1/250 of a second equal on both cameras? It seems to me that you are implying they are not.
Richard M.

[Recurvirostra]

Hi Richard,

Must admit I couldn't see much difference in image quality between the two samples, although the Nikon one did seem to have a slight reddish cast over it.

If you think the images are not sharp, perhaps it is a problem with this individual camera? The respected DPReview (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons80/) website in their review of this camera said,

"In fact the more you look at the results from the S80 the more impressed you are - they're clean and detailed, they don't look too 'processed' and - thankfully - they've not been subjected to excessive in-camera sharpening…

...and the results are superb. Most of the serious issues we had with the S70 - including purple fringing and focus problems - have been eliminated, and the result is a camera that seems perfect for the serious photographer itching for SLR - style control in a compact body."

[Neil]

I don't see that much difference between the two images either. Any focus difference would be due to the hand holding as no two images would be the same and as mentioned with more megapixels the S80 needs a rock steady support. Were both lenses zoomed out to full zoom?

[Skean]

Gentlemen,
I guess what I am saying in a nutshell is if you had both cameras and did your own side by side comparison you would have similar results and thoughts that I have had. And again how would it be if you are shooting both cameras at a 250th of a sec. the 8MP camera would need more time to record the image?
Richard M.

[Recurvirostra]

The time to record the image depends more on the design of the camera than the number of megapixels it records.

Again, from the DPReview website, the S80 takes 0.5 seconds to store the highest quality 8MP JPEG to the CF card. I couldn't find figures for the CP4300, but the CP4500, which is probably similar, was quoted as taking 5.7 seconds to store its 4MP image - more than 11 times as long.

When the internal buffer is taken into account, the S80 can take 1.9 frames per second indefinitely (until the card is full), while the CP4500 can take 1.2 frames per second for a up to a maximum of 5. Unless the CP4300 is vastly different to the CP4500, the S80 wins hands-down in writing speed. The exposure speed shouldn't have any effect on the writing speed.

[Skean]

So that said I would have to assume that the S80 has the advantage over the coolpix 4300 and it would make no difference when it comes to being able to take a sharp picture even if you handheld the camera. What I am trying to say is the theory that because it is 8MP it needs to be steadier than the 4MP when taking a shot does not seem to hold water. True? And I want to be perfectly clear on one point... Nobody wants to be more wrong about my initial statements and conclusions than I do! I have 575.00 invested into what I believe is a camera that is not as well suited to digiscoping than my old coolpix 4300!

[steveblain]

Gentlemen,
I guess what I am saying in a nutshell is if you had both cameras and did your own side by side comparison you would have similar results and thoughts that I have had. And again how would it be if you are shooting both cameras at a 250th of a sec. the 8MP camera would need more time to record the image?
Richard M.

Richard,

It has nothing to do with writing time to the card. The point I was making is that an 8MP image has a lot more pixels and so details that are seen as sharp on a 4MP image may not be on an 8MP image because they are spread accross more pixels. It's the same as using a zoom eyepiece. The image can look fantastic at 20x but vibrations are a lot more noticable at 60x because you are seeing more detail.

I'm probably not explaining this as clearly as I could?!

Cheers

[Skean]

Steve,
I understand (i believe) what you are trying to get at. So if I shoot the subject with the MP set to a lower value as if to simulate a 4 MP shot with the canon I may see different results? Oh well I think I will do much more testing. I want to thank all that have added to this thread and hopefully I will to the bottom of this. If nothing else this has certainly been food for thought!

Richard M.

[steveblain]

Steve,
I understand (i believe) what you are trying to get at. So if I shoot the subject with the MP set to a lower value as if to simulate a 4 MP shot with the canon I may see different results? Oh well I think I will do much more testing. I want to thank all that have added to this thread and hopefully I will to the bottom of this. If nothing else this has certainly been food for thought!

Richard M.

Yes, that will give much more comparable results.

Good luck

Cheers

[iporali]

So if I shoot the subject with the MP set to a lower value as if to simulate a 4 MP shot with the canon I may see different results?

Richard,

I don't think you will see different results - and to be honest, I think the scope may be at the limits to deliver 8Mpix worth of details. What you could IMO try is to:
1) fix the camera and the scope together,
2) search the optimal distance between the lens & the eyepiece
3) try to eliminate any shake eg. by a self timer.

If the pics with the 8Mpix Canon aren't still better than with the 4Mpix Nikon, I am ready to believe that your observations are true... but that your Canon may be a less than perfect sample. :t:

Best regards,

Ilkka

[Skean]

Well I am very happy to report that I am an idiot! My initial conclusions about the S80 have turned out to be absolutly false. To make a long story short I made some simple mistakes when changing settings on the camera which affected how the image was recorded. I will say that now the image quality I am able to digiscope with the canon exceeds that of my coolpix 4300 (see attached pics). Now I just need to get out into the field!!
The attached pics are named for the camera they were taken with. They were digiscoped through a Zeiss scope at a distance of approx. 25 feet (8 meters). Both pics were originally of a larger field of view but then cropped to this size. The original field of view was almost exactly the same. Both shots were taken at the cameras respective highest resoultion. The canon, with its 8mp, really shines when you start to crop images!

Richard M.
a.k.a. Skean

[Skean]

Thought I would post a "real life" shot taken this weekend with the S80.
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/data/500/6487coot7.jpg
Very happy with the results but I must say it seems harder to take a good pic with this camera vs the coolpix 4300.
Richard M.

[Neil]

Richard,
Good work on the Coot. What do you mean harder? Neil.

[Modular]

The Canon took a very nice picture of that Coot ... I'm impressed,
My only query is the Last Two comparison's ... If you take a picture in 8mp
on the Canon and a 4mp with the Nikon ... and then crop like you did ...
Then the 8mp will obviously be better ... That would go for most Camera's,
Can you do a test by lowering the Pixel's to 4 on the Canon ... Then you can
compare both picture's at 4mp, Maybe i have'nt totally understood but if i have then this is the way to compare,
If i took a picture of a bird at 30 Metre's with my 4500 and then took One
with my 7900 ... And then cropped the Bird ... The 7 Megapixel's will easily
be clearer and sharper than the 4 megapixel's on the 4500,
I would like to see a 4 vs 4 between the Canon and Nikon,
Thank's,
Tc,
John,


Well I am very happy to report that I am an idiot! My initial conclusions about the S80 have turned out to be absolutly false. To make a long story short I made some simple mistakes when changing settings on the camera which affected how the image was recorded. I will say that now the image quality I am able to digiscope with the canon exceeds that of my coolpix 4300 (see attached pics). Now I just need to get out into the field!!
The attached pics are named for the camera they were taken with. They were digiscoped through a Zeiss scope at a distance of approx. 25 feet (8 meters). Both pics were originally of a larger field of view but then cropped to this size. The original field of view was almost exactly the same. Both shots were taken at the cameras respective highest resoultion. The canon, with its 8mp, really shines when you start to crop images!

Richard M.
a.k.a. Skean

[Skean]

Richard,
Good work on the Coot. What do you mean harder? Neil.
Neil,
What I mean to say by harder is the canon does not take as many "good" shots as the nikon. The canons focus is much more tempermental than the nikons thus making it harder to get good pics quickly. I may be missing a setting which may improve results but as of yet this is not the case.
Richard M.

[Neil]

Richard,
That's not good. I thought the CP4500 was not good in the focusing department. My Kyocera and Olympus 7070 are much better than the 4500. Neil.

[Skean]

The Canon took a very nice picture of that Coot ... I'm impressed,
My only query is the Last Two comparison's ... If you take a picture in 8mp
on the Canon and a 4mp with the Nikon ... and then crop like you did ...
Then the 8mp will obviously be better ... That would go for most Camera's,
Can you do a test by lowering the Pixel's to 4 on the Canon ... Then you can
compare both picture's at 4mp, Maybe i have'nt totally understood but if i have then this is the way to compare,
If i took a picture of a bird at 30 Metre's with my 4500 and then took One
with my 7900 ... And then cropped the Bird ... The 7 Megapixel's will easily
be clearer and sharper than the 4 megapixel's on the 4500,
I would like to see a 4 vs 4 between the Canon and Nikon,
Thank's,
Tc,
John,

John,
The point is simply that the lens quality of the camera will be a major factor when it comes to the sharpness/quality of the picture as well as its digiscoping characteristics. You are basically saying that what matters most is MP count. I could test the canon at the lower MP count but my goal is to show that the canon is capable of taking a better picture with all its features not "dumbing it down" sort of speak. I do understand that your comparison may show that at the 4 to 4 count the nikon is better. Would that matter? I am not sure but it may indicate the nikon lens is better which I have no trouble with. To sum up.. the goal was to show if the canon was a capable digiscoping camera when compared to the nikon. I feel it has its advantages but also some drawbacks. Another thing of note is I feel the color rendition on the canon is a good deal better. This makes for some richer shots. I hope I brought some clarity to my thinking.
Richard M.

[Forcreeks]

Appreciate the discussion as I'm looking for an upgrade from my Olympus C-60 zoom a 6MP camera. I'll check out this Canon S-80, reviews, physical dimensions, and specs. Keep in mind that MP count is a BIG deal, when you're interested in making prints. I like to make prints of my better digiscopes to keep a "portfolio" of my shots that came out fairly good. This way I try to print as many bird species as I can get, and it's something that can always grow and therefore improve both in count and quality. Not just technical quality, but composition, light, interest etc. Sooo... more MP means you can 1) print a larger photo with better resolution and/or 2) crop more and still get a good resolution print. This also means you can be farther away or magnify less (better light and shutter speed), crop closer to subject and still print well. Zooming also causes distortion.
But in the final word, camera optics and color rendition rule, providing the auto or manual focus can be made to digiscope properly.

[Magnus]

Richard, I think I know exactly what you are experiencing. I have recently bought a Canon S70 which I am inclined to say is disappointing, for very similar reasons. It might also be worth mentioning that, IMO, DPreview seems to favour Canon, almost regardless. I feel that I should also point out that more pixels doesn't necessarily mean better image quality; it is not that simple. Regards to all, Magnus.