Help!

[spottydotty]

Hello,

We, as a family, are planning to club together and get some binoculars for our Dad, but we have absolutely no idea which to get.

Since moving near The Forest of Dean, Gloucs, he is becoming more and more fascinated with birds - especially the pair of Buzzards nesting nearby.

Could anybody please recommend a good pair up to £260'ish? Brightness and clarity of image, weatherproofing, rugged design and a good close focus are more important than their size.. I think!

He wears glasses - I gather that makes a difference?

Thank you,

Dotty.

[Leif]

The latest Bird Watching magazine has a review of binoculars in that price range. You should find that porro prism will give better value for money. As he wears glasses he will need good eye relief. The bigger the better, so he can see the whole field with his glasses on.

[spottydotty]

Thank you for your incredibly quick help. This is an amazing site, it's so comprehensive and yet fun - if you know what I mean!

Can I just ask, are there any 'no no' brands to stay clear of? Also, can we get a good pair for that price range (up to £260)?

I do understand the 'tie' analogy but my Dad really is THE KING of ANTI-SHOP! He never (and I mean) never goes shopping, so I am going to have to try as best I can to get some for him from mail order/internet taking advantage of any home approval they might offer (I am bedbound and cannot go out shopping).

His hands are quite small for a Man, I hadn't even thought of that, thank you.

I am going to get a copy of Bird Watching and look at that article.

Once again thanks!

Dotty o:D

[Nick-on]

You could always take him to Slimbridge for the day and nip into the In-Focus shop there or take him to a demo day at a nature reserve?

[spottydotty]

Thanks Again :-)

Can I just check, would 8x42 be the most suitable?

Alison

[birdman]

8 x 42 would be fine - but, hopefully not to complicate things, anything from 7 to 10 mag and 42 or 50 lens would be fine.

For the record, me and my partner both own a pair of Opticron Binoculars (can't remember the actual model). Mine are 10 x 42, while my partner prefers her 8 x 42s. Although there's not much in it, mine are actually a bit lighter (yes lighter) and a bit bigger - and if we are ever required to swap, we both have a bit of trouble with the other's. Mine (going back about 5 years) were £105, and my partner's £95, so for £260 you should be able to get something pretty good.

Let me add two more things.

Firstly, if at all possible (and I do understand that you would like to suprise Dad) let him try them out first. It's been said above, and you can see from my post that it can make a difference.

Secondly, which I don't think has been mentioned yet - check out the strap. If your Dad is going to wear these for any length of time, it might be worth investing £10 or thereabout for a comfy strap. Perhaps in the price range you are looking comfy straps come as standard, but we both bought a separate neoprene strap, where you get a wide stretchy foam rubber type of cushioned piece for around the neck.

There's an exmaple of one on this American webpage...

http://www.ahoycaptain.com/shop/steinerb.html

.. but any decent supplier should have some available.

All the best!

[spottydotty]

Hello Kevin (and continued thanks) and Hello Birdman (thank you too) - you're a very kind bunch here!

I am definitely going for a strap aswell - good point!

Being a complete novice in this area I wonder if you would tell me: would 10x50 provide a brighter image than 10x42? If so, why would go for 42 and not 50?

More and more I am being drawn to Opticron, they seem to provide a lot for the money. But as I look through the models on the web it is very difficult to actually see what the difference is between models other than price!

Birdman: Stop The World... I'd quite like to get on! That made me laugh! Ee by eck, I may have to nick it :-)!!

Thank you both, your help is very much appreciated,

Dotty.

[spottydotty]

By the way,

Your enthusiasm has me wondering whether I might like to get a mini-scope for myself to peek out of the window - I overlook a pond and often see birds swooping by :-) see, you are unknowingly (or knowingly?!) recruiting more members for this site by being so nice!

Dotty :-)

[birdman]

All other things being equal, yes a 10 x 50 would give a brighter image than a 10 x 42, and again all other things being equal I would expect a 10 x 42 to cost less.

I must say, though, that the quality of image depends upon an awful lot more than simply lens diameter - and it would take someone with far more technical knowledge than I to explain them!

[normjackson]

How about Swift Audubon 8.5x44 HHS roofs? For positive review from glasses wearer see :

http://betterviewdesired.com/march02/index.html

And an example retailer see :

http://www.eebc.co.uk/bins/index.htm

Look a decent compromise for first bins (field of view a wee bit narrow?). (Now we wait for the groans from a a member who tried them but was umimpressed...)

Looks like you might have to go with Kevin's suggestion and have a long telephone conversation with one of his recommended friendly retailers.

When is the happy day?

[digi-birder]

I'm going to mess up decisions about the strap!

I even found that the springy neck straps from Optech caused me some neck trouble, so I bought one of those 'baby harness' type bino straps. I cannot even feel that I'm carrying binos and they don't swing about as much as they do on a single strap.

They are also made by Optech, or the RSPB do their own version.

[birdman]

Hi again Dotty,

It would be nice if you do get a chance to get a better view of "your" pond - of course, you'll have to ask yourself all the same questions again regarding what you get.

Without, I hope, being too personal, if you will have only limited opportunities to watch birds further afield - then you probably don't need to spend the earth on your own 'scope or binoculars.

Whatever you decide to do, please let us know of the comings and goings at the pond!

Cheers

[Ragna]

Dotty
as regards 8x42 against 10x42. 8s will be easier to hold steady,have more depth of field [ you wont have to keep refocusingif following birds through trees] and field of view will be better[birds will be easier to locate] and the image should be brighter,the only advantage the 10s have is a larger image. I think the 8s have far more advantage over the 10s.Opticron are very good value for money,Kowa also do some bins which are worth a look.good luck

[mak]

Dotty.

I will try and help, as I work for an optical company (so I might give completely the wrong advise!!).

Your dad where's glasses, yes this is important, because although some binoculars say that they are suitable for spectacle wearers because they have rubber eyecups, this is not the case. Binoculars for spectacle wearers should have sufficient eye relief of between 14mm to 21mm, if not your dad will only see a fraction of the field of view. Depending on your dads age, his own eye pupil will have a certain diameter, so the exit pupil might not need to be so large as he will not get the full benefit. I would suggest that the 8x40/42 or 8x30/32 would be sufficient, as 10x magnification is seen as the maximum for hand held binoculars, but if he cannot hold these steady the 10x will also magnify the movement due to the unsteadiness of the handling. I agree with a lot of the previous people who state that the best way to purchase would be to let your dad try them, it would be sad to spend £200+ on a binocular that he could not use. By the way depth of field can change due to the person, so depth of field on a 8x32 might be different from one user to another. Good luck.

[normjackson]

Your initial email cited weatherproofing, rugged design and good close focus being important considerations. I reckon these point you towards a roof prism design. However, I'd reckon prime consideration would be ease of use with glasses (which fortunately is not a conflicting demand); so as Leif mentioned, long "eye relief" is very important.

I agree the latest Opticron range look good; and Opticron seem keen to provide for glasses wearers.

As regards a scope for indoors use, an astronomical type scope (which doesn't have the ruggedness or waterproofing of a birders spotting scope) might be an appropriate choice. www.dhinds.co.uk have a choice of three under Spotters/Scopes. The Celestron 80WA offering is one variation among many of a standard (and excellent value) Chinese-made tube (Helios do a version, I think, with two Kellner eyepieces and a Barlow instead of the two Plossl's at a lower price). For a bit more cash, you might consider a Maksutov-Cassegrain telescope; eg. see :

www.sherwoods-photo.com/sky_watcher/skywatcher_fs.html

Of course you'll need a tripod too. These astronomical telescopes are designed to work well at the high magnifications you may need if the pond you mention is at some distance. I guess, as regards the scope, you won't be up against a birthday deadline, so you can have more fun researching it! Good luck and hope you let us know your decision.

[spottydotty]

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR KIND HELP!

Sorry for the delay, I haven't been well. I am still researching and comparing and noodling and grr.. there's so much choice!

I appreciate each and every mail, thank you.

Spot x

[Colin]

Dotty,
You say your Dad never goes shopping. What about getting him to WWT Slimbridge (not shopping) and then fool him into going into the In Focus shop on the pretence that you want to look over some bins and when in the shop ask him what he thinks of some of the bins and when he says that "these are good" bearing in mind all of the good advice here, buy them for him. I do some work at Slimbridge (not the optics shop) but I know the guys in there and they will offer good advice. You may even be able to sneak in sometime earlier and tell the guys there what you want to do so that when your Dad goes in they will be in on the surprise.


Colin

[spottydotty]

Very sneaky Colin!

[Gramayr]

How about Bushnell 10 x 42 natureveiw roof prism binos - £169. My better half has a pair of Minolta 12 x 50 Activa binos, i managed to get them at a good price since I used to work at the camera shop where I bought them. (retail is £199). Both are fog and water resistant.

[dipped]

I would also recommend try before you buy.

In your price bracket I would recommend for brilliant optics the Nikon 8x30 EIIs, a porro prism, not waterproof but long regarded as a bench mark at this price. They may not have enough eye relief though.

Also have a look at the Zeiss Conquest 8/10x30. These are roof prisms offering weather protection, (waterproof I think) and a more modern design.
The 10x30 model did very well in a recent BBC Wildlife Mag survey of mid-price binoculars. A Minox (roof model), also did quite well.

I think you may have to bend your criteria a bit to find a model you like at your chosen price range.

Finally the UK Birdfair is just around the corner and this is a time when some manufacturers at least, introduce new models. I would be tempted to wait and see what is produced here if I was in your position.

[dbradnum]

Errr... useful advice, guys, but the request was made in May 2003! :h?:

[dipped]

Errr... useful advice, guys, but the request was made in May 2003! :h?:

Well we've started now so let's carry on shall we! lol.