Mini Disc And Sonic Stage

[griffin]

This is really directed at Ermine as he may know the solutions which may help me in the short term but others in long term, hence this new thread.

I am up at 3.20am trying to get this crappy Sony Sonic Stage software to work on my MZ-NH900. Have downloaded latest version and also a WAV conversion prog.

Sonic Stage works, will import a PCM file from MD but only lets me play it once then tries to get copyright for it from the WEB - ITS MINE, BA*****D thing ! It will not let me convert to WAV at download stage either ( from PCM recording ). So I am left stuck in its interface.

WAV conversion software will not open as it says it needs at least 2.1 Sonic Stage installed - 3.04 IS installed !!!!!

Have uninstalled the whole lot as it is really piss:ing me off.....totally CRAP software.

Contemplating going back to HEADPHONE out MIC in at this rate if this is what its going to be like.

Too tired, losing the will to live at this stage................may be gone for some time :gn:

HELP !


Linz

[ermine]

WAV conversion software will not open as it says it needs at least 2.1 Sonic Stage installed - 3.04 IS installed !!!!!

Have uninstalled the whole lot as it is really piss:ing me off.....totally CRAP software.


That's probably a good start as you're best off running 3.4 :) 3.2 was the first version of SS that was anywhere useful so if you had 3.04 then you were on a bad track to a hard place...

I got mine from here (http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14522) but you can also d/l it from Sony. I've forgotten why I didn't get mine from Sony - probably wanted the standalone so I had a copy in case they did something stupid like reintroduce all the copyright rubbish. this thread (http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14137) gives you more of why 3.4 is better. Anyway, I installed 3.4 without uninstalling 3.2 and I ended up with 3.2. Doh, really ought to read the instructions on uninstall first, so I had to uninstall 3.4 and 3.2 and then install 3.4 to get this set right.

the first splash screen should look like this
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/20.gif
then go to the transfer menu. Ideally with a fresh MD with one track recorded with the microphone of no great value, rather than a 2005 Arkansas trip recording of an ivory-billed woodpecker :)
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/21.gif
then hit the suitcase icon in between the transfer panels to get the config screen up
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/22.gif
make with the Advanced key
then make sure the convert to wav is checked
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/23.gif
it also pays to remember the directory where it puts stuff, since that isn't anywhere SonicStage usually puts things!
Then do the transfer. The transfer will complete, and then another box will pop up
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/24.gif
Do not touch anything - let this run. It does hang a little at 100% - do not panic!
It will then go away, and you can root around in the transfer directory you remembered from the config to find the file.

It would have been nice if there was a command 'convert this library file' but I don't know of one. on MDCF they seem to indicate there are command line tools. I just convert on receive and delete the files from the Sonicstage library - I don't use SS to store anything, just to transfer the recordings.

What you CAN'T do, even with a HiMD, is transfer your old MD recordings. Just thought I'd say that in case that was what you were trying to do ;)

HTH

[griffin]

Hi Ermine,

Have just finished work so will need to digest what you have said. Thanx for your help.

It is v.3.4 I have downloaded not 3.04. I too uninstalled 2.01 that came with the MD. Have re-installed 3.4 today, without the WAV conversion problem, which I shouldn't need ????

I have managed to get a file from MD ( in PCM ) to Sonic Stage. It plays it once, but when I close the program and re-open it is prompting me to get copyright info from WEB or it will not open.

Will try your suggestions and let you know how I get on !

Want to get out Deeside tommorrow for Xbills and put new MD to test as I do think it will be much better. However, I have to be confident I can extract my files - worse case scenario I could do a headphone out, but that seems ridiculous with the NH 900 !

Cheers,

Linz

[griffin]

Have tried your suggestions and no joy I am afraid. Recording is in Hi-MD PCM linear and I am getting "cannot covert to WAV" error".

I am going to uninstall ( again ) and download it from the site you have listed.

Cheers,

Linz

[griffin]

Just did another recording and it transferred - Hooray !!

Even did a quick 'gram of it and it is ok !

Should the bit tranfer rate be 256 as in your diagram ?

Many thanks for bearing with me - the original file must have become corrupted with the anti-copyright stuff from v.2.01 ?


Best wishes,

Linz

[ermine]

Should the bit tranfer rate be 256 as in your diagram ?

Many thanks for bearing with me - the original file must have become corrupted with the anti-copyright stuff from v.2.01 ?


That's the default for transferring to the HiMD. We don't really use that, but if you do, 256 is okay for music. You can also transfer all of the 4CD set of European bird sounds to one MD, and the name shows in thedisplay, since if you're going to pack a minidisc you might as well have that facility.

There are some anecdotal reports that people experience corruption with HiMD if they edit the disc before transferring. If you do get that once in a lifetime never to be repeated Ivory-billed woodpecker recording ;) then what you should do BEFORE you transfer with SS is to PLAY the recording in SS which will come in digitally over the USB port and play on your speakers. Use your favourite audio app like Audacity to record the WAV stream from your sound mixer, and this will be a digital transfer of your HiMD, although your sound card will probably resample to 48kHz and downsample to 44.1kHz internally. Once you have that, only then should you transfer using SS just in case your recording is lost.

I don't edit in the field ever since I had one problem, which was probably due to a failing battery anyway, and I haven't had a problem transferring files since. If you used 2.01 on that recording, then once you'd transferred it once, you wouldn't be able to do it again, even with 3.4. With recordings only touched by 3.4, you can d/l it just as many times as you wish

[griffin]

On the sonograms there is a thick black line running at approx. 15khz. This looks similar to the signals that some of the early MD's suffered from and which made them sonogram unfriendly ? Could be my Mic but it seems to have occured during the conversion from PCM to.WAV.

It is not a real prob as it is way above xbill call ranges <5kHz.

Linz

Linz

[Touty]

Magnificent and comprehensive answer. Thank you for taking the time.

That's probably a good start as you're best off running 3.4 :) 3.2 was the first version of SS that was anywhere useful so if you had 3.04 then you were on a bad track to a hard place...

I got mine from here (http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14522) but you can also d/l it from Sony. I've forgotten why I didn't get mine from Sony - probably wanted the standalone so I had a copy in case they did something stupid like reintroduce all the copyright rubbish. this thread (http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14137) gives you more of why 3.4 is better. Anyway, I installed 3.4 without uninstalling 3.2 and I ended up with 3.2. Doh, really ought to read the instructions on uninstall first, so I had to uninstall 3.4 and 3.2 and then install 3.4 to get this set right.

the first splash screen should look like this
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/20.gif
then go to the transfer menu. Ideally with a fresh MD with one track recorded with the microphone of no great value, rather than a 2005 Arkansas trip recording of an ivory-billed woodpecker :)
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/21.gif
then hit the suitcase icon in between the transfer panels to get the config screen up
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/22.gif
make with the Advanced key
then make sure the convert to wav is checked
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/23.gif
it also pays to remember the directory where it puts stuff, since that isn't anywhere SonicStage usually puts things!
Then do the transfer. The transfer will complete, and then another box will pop up
http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/24.gif
Do not touch anything - let this run. It does hang a little at 100% - do not panic!
It will then go away, and you can root around in the transfer directory you remembered from the config to find the file.

It would have been nice if there was a command 'convert this library file' but I don't know of one. on MDCF they seem to indicate there are command line tools. I just convert on receive and delete the files from the Sonicstage library - I don't use SS to store anything, just to transfer the recordings.

What you CAN'T do, even with a HiMD, is transfer your old MD recordings. Just thought I'd say that in case that was what you were trying to do ;)

HTH

[ermine]

On the sonograms there is a thick black line running at approx. 15khz. This looks similar to the signals that some of the early MD's suffered from and which made them sonogram unfriendly ? Could be my Mic but it seems to have occured during the conversion from PCM to.WAV.


I'm a little bit puzzled as to how you can identify the PCM to WAV as the stage that caused the change?

Anyway, here is a sonogram of a humble chaffinch, recorded yesterday with my MZ-NH700 in PCM mode, with a Sennheiser MKE300D mic. So nothing particularly special here. I set the sonogram software to cover a dynamic range of 90dB, hence the general murkiness. Observe the cleanness of the upper registers ;) The thin black line between the sonogram and the waveform is just how the software spearates the two regions.

http://www.suffolkbirds.co.uk/images/060318chaffy.gif

So your 15k tone isn't inherent in the system. I recently had reason to test the noise peformance of the NH700, and a spectrum plot of the noise with a 1kHz tone source is pretty clean in the top end -

http://www.megalithia.com/soundings/himd/mdmeas/tone.png

there's nothing in the strip on right-hand side of the plot, which is everything above 10kHz. The low frequency noise lift is an artifact of how I did the test, and the 2kHz and 3kHz blips are from the test signal. There's nothing untoward in that plot.

That's of course not to say that you don't have a fault condition on your particular unit, but it does show that HiMD is pretty clean even with the record level set to 29 on Mic Sens Hi, so it isn't inherent in the system.

[griffin]

I think it is probably caused by resampling at a different rate from what it was recorded at, as this has happened on the 710 - it looked like the stuff on the old Cornell site that said why you couldn't use (old) MD as it recorded spurious "averaged" data that human ear can't hear. I beleive this was around 10KhZ, but have lost the paper. It could also have been electronic interference.

Have not confused the waveform signal with the sonogram - have been looking at thousands over the last three years so that wouldn't throw me ;-).

When I have time I will upload some excitement and flight calls ( and some song ) of Scottish and Parrot Crossbills that I got today but am out again tommorrow first thing so gotta catch some Zzzzz's.


Linz