Laser finders attached to spotting scopes

[Colin]

I noted a discussion at another thread regarding laser treatment to correct eyesight problems and the things that may go wrong with such treatment and this prompted me to remember a note that I read recently regarding the attachment of a laser finder to a spotting scopt to locate a bird in the field of view for digiscoping purposes. (I am repeating my reply here as it seems even more appropriate). I seem to remember that this note pointed out that what is actually happening is that the person using this aid is zapping the bird with a laser and if that laser hits the eyes of the bird it may do damage to them. I do not know whether this is true but I put this here for comment.

I also put another note on this other forum. When I was birding in north west Scotland a few years ago, I was checking whether a bombing range was in use because there was a public footpath near by and people were advised to check. The military man who OKed the fact that the path was open told me that there was bombing due to take place but not in my area. However, when he saw that I was a birdwatcher with scope and bins, he advised me not to watch the incoming planes with myoptics as they would be using laser guided bombs and an eyeful of laser would not do my eyes any good. As is often the case, the exercise didn't happen that day and I saw no planes at all but this may be a risk even though it is rare that a birder would scope a plane which just happened to be on a bombing run with laser guided bombs. However, the first point in my post with the laser finder may be more of concern if true.

Colin

[Andy Bright]

I have to admit that I missed any post/thread dealing with attaching laser finders on scopes..... there's plenty of discussion on here about red dot sights, but that's just an l.e.d. projection onto a lens.
I can't help wondering about the usefulness of a laser dot at distance.... would you ever find it in your scope? You wouldn't see it with a naked eye.
Andy

[Colin]

Andy,
The piece about laser sights was not on Bird Forum. I read it somewhere on the internet recently. Maybe the originator got it wrong and thought that these red dot finders used a laser to line up on the target as I did, albeit a laser of small power from a torch battery. I don't have a finder, I just put the scope on the object and then slide the camera onto the eyepiece. As long as the tripod is locked nothing moves and hey presto, the target appears on the screen of the camera, just like that, as Tommy Cooper used to say. Having a finder lashed to the scope is just one bit of kit too many to cart around in my opinion.


Colin

[paclett]

I will keep it short as most of the blurb is on another forum, but "Where have they been all my life" gone are the days of searching V & H for the little blighter. Now its dot it and shoot it "photo of course" Its improved the aquisition time. and all with no batteries.

[Paulyoly]

What is a red dot sight and how exactly does that work. I used tow L shaped pieces of metal each with a hole drilled at the appropriate place to line up my birds, it works better than i could have ever dreamed, it's kinda like aiming a bow and arrow if you've ever done that, i just line up the two holes on the bird and there he is in the screen.

[paclett]

Paul,

The principle of the red dot sight is that a very low powered LED is used to project a spot onto a lens, either at the front or back of the sight, this dot when looked at with both eyes open superimposses it self on the overall image, sort of like looking through a scope the two images combine producing the red spot on the target. Assuming the zeroing is correct the target will be in the centre of the veiwfinder. And if you are confident the focusing has been preset its press the shutter. There are many different sorts available I would suggest going to one of your gun stores and chaking it out. My opinion is I have many more less wasted time on aquisition then ever before and as there is more time better focusing.

and do I need that!

[paclett]

Having got your finder there is a dilema as to where the best position would be.

Well for pistol shooting the distance from eye to sight is from 60 to 90 cms, but fir the rifle it is as close as 10 - 20 cms from the sighting eye.

Depending on the type of digiscoping you intend to do dependes where you might place the finder.

An example wight be for hide or blind use the fonder on the end of the scope or lens gives an unobscured view, ie no netting or mesh.

but for every day clear use then as close as you like so long as it is clear and not in the way of normal operation.

I would be interested in hear of the different appraoches.

Paclett

[Surreybirder]

I think the issue of laser guide beams was discussed on UKBirdnet... but my memory may be at fault!

[Walther Loff]

Hi folks:
I have read your tread and like to report, that I am also using a red dot scope attached to the back end of my Bausch & Lomb "ELITE" 80mm Ed lens 45 degre angled scope.
The scope has a build in grove to be used for quick finding, this is where I place the red dot assembly as a datum point and after calibrating the hight and windage, I retain accuracy all the time.
The laser dot is a LED projected to a front lens and never emits light outside the scope.
see the attached jpeg.
Cheers
Walther
www.walther-loff.com

[nigelblake]

Going back to Colins openner for this thread, If you were to catch the laser sights of an aircraft at a bombing range through you bins or scope it would indeed damage your eyes, however this would not be as painful as being hit by the laser guided bomb that would follow, as in order to see the guiding laser you would have to be at the target point that the laser sight would be illuminating!

Nigel

[paclett]

Originally posted by paclett
Paul,

The principle of the red dot sight is that a very low powered LED is used to project a spot onto a lens, either at the front or back of the sight, this dot when looked at with both eyes open superimposses it self on the overall image,

It seems odd that this misconception of lasers persists, probably due to the exagerated projections of films etc.
These RED DOT sights are not lasers, as understood by the general public. In the main they are as quoted above and of no danger to either wildlifr or public, as they are only projcted onto a lens, and not the subject.

To project a laser onto distant objects the power supply would be enormouse.

for attacment details see gallery other equipment ( tomorrow!!)

Nigel lasers used to light up a target are usually in the form of a hand held device from the ground or a placed device which the Smart bomb follows, the strength of these is not sufficient to cause permanent damage, bit looking at the sun by mistake!

paul

[nigelblake]

On the contrary most target designation lasers are carried in pods on the underside of the aircraft, these can be opperated by the weapons and systems officer (in the back seat) or automatically, mostly they are infra red lasers as these can penetrate cloud cover and haze more effectively.

The LANTIRN (Low-Altitude Navigation and Targeting Infra Red for Night) pod under an F15E in the picture attached is one such Laser designator, the Laser is mounted in the gimbled spherical nose of the pod, the illuminator being rolled into a rearward pointing position until needed, this protects the lens from the weather and other possible impacts such as insects etc until it is needed.
Being on a gimble the targeting laser can be moved to stay on the target whatever the position or attitude of the aircraft, however in many cases one aircraft flies circuits to illuminate the target whilst other aircraft deliver the weapons.

[paclett]

what can you say!!

If yur finder scope needs a power supply like an F15 your your might be a bit over the top!!

[paclett]

Kevin,

I have used the same principle, as per piccy.
but in addition used mastic to put flash shoe onto camera body.

why mastic cause it is stable waterproof,, but above all comes off with some simple cleaning.

the front mount is part of a drain pipe cut to size, a band going underneath to secure behind the shade, anda vertical arm to elevate the sight.

works real well.

other piccies in gallery place