A map of ' A Norfolk patch'

[Karl J]

This is in addition to my other post : A Norfolk patch (http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5866) .... this is a map of the area.

Don't know the scale but it's about 20 miles from Gt Yarmouth to Norwich

[birdman]

Thanks Carlos,

It's good to be able to get a 'feel' for the area you do your birding in.

Although I've been to the N. Norfolk Coast about four times, I've only been as far south a Norwich once, and at the time, is was ameans to and end , so I didn't get the chance to loiter!

I can certainly imagine you get many a tranquil day out there!

[cuddy]

Hickling Broad, Stumpshaw Fen, and Breydon Water, Are sites ive had the pleasure of visiting, and all were great

[walwyn]

Its an area I've not visited, basically because its outside of my days journey range (about 2 hrs) Titchwell is just about on my limit. I suspect that Norwich is about 3hrs away. Though I did manage the Eden Project and back in a day and a half, two weeks ago.

Nice area though.

[Charles Harper]

Thanks Carlos, I'm saving these patch maps-- don't know what to do with 'em yet, but hope we can find points of comparison over time. These four sites are all similar habitat, along the river?

[Karl J]

Charles : Berney, Buckenham & Cantley are all pretty much the same; a raised floodbank with the footpath on top, the river on one side and the marshes on the other.
Breydon Water is a tidal estuary with mudflats leading down to the river.
Strumpshaw reserve is a bit more varied in habitat because it sits on the side of the valley so habitats range from higher level woodland down to the river front. There's areas of marsh, reedbeds, woodland, carr, slow moving river & quiet backwater.

Going back thousands of years the whole valley was woodland & forest, then ( by Roman times) the sea level rose and it became an estuary, since then it's fallen again leaving what is in effect a peaty floodplain, although due to the floodbank it hasn't actually flooded for ( I think about 50 ) years.

It's not the most dramatic valley ever, the word 'valley' is a bit of an overstatement really. The highest ground is Strumpshaw village which sits on a small area 40 m above sea level - and thats about a mile from the river. More generally the height difference is about 20 m or less, over a mile. Some areas are at sea level for miles on end.

How does that compare to your area ?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Carlos,

Just wondering, how long till it's all an estuary again? Won't take much of a rise in sea level.

Michael

[Charles Harper]

Hola Carlos,

Like apples and oranges. Except perhaps for the altitude-- my patch is at a steady 55-65 meters ASL.

I went out this morning to try to match where I've been walking to the ward map I picked up at city hall. It appears that I have been wandering around in an area roughly just one km by 1.5 km, which is about half (primarily cedar) forest and half cultivated allotments with a bit of untended weedland. If I peer through a high, hedged fence I can just glimpse the nearest pond on an adjacent golf course. There's some anecdotal comments on my patch thread here (http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=41504#post41504)... if I've done the vB code right.

I think we will be hard put to enclose similar species, beyond, what, Carrion Crow, Great Tit?-- in fact, that might be an exercise we could pursue. However, I see I will first have to construct an overall list of Palearctic species common to Britain and Japan, and then see how that list is further decimated by habitat-- and other variables. What's a 'carr'? It's not in my Webster's.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Charles,

Presumably that's Sugi (Cryptomeria japonica), not 'cedar' (Cedrus is native to the Mediterranean and the Himalaya, not Japan).

Carr is wet woodland, primarily of Alnus (Alder) and Salix (Willow)

Michael

[Charles Harper]

It's tall and green and 'sugi' is the Japanese name, translated as Japanese Cedar. I'm writing, I thought, for English speakers. I think I'll call it Cryptomeria, an' it please thee, in my patchwork; I'm no cryptobotanist. What's the etymology of 'carr', a surname perhaps? Not that I want to foment another 'jizz' thread...

[birdman]

Hi Charles,

Carr might be a northern English term for areas as described by Michael - or perhaps it is more widespread. As a "northerner", it seems quite common to me, and so if it is local, I am unaware of this.

It would appear to have come from the Old Norse "kjarr", which I assume had the same meaning. Old Norse does tend to influence "northern" more than "southern" dialects - look up "Danelaw".

I imagine anyone with the name "Carr" received this as a method of identification, in the same way as many other names. John who lives by the carr = John Carr.

[phyllosc]

I concur with Birdman here. Living in the 'south' it is not a name I encounter very often and my job brings me in contact with many people.

Dave CARR
the Northerner 'abroad'!

[Michael Frankis]

All the same, it's a reasonably well-known word among anyone who has anything to do with trees, forestry, nature conservation, etc. While it may originally have been northern only, I see it often enough in habitat description literature, etc. I'm fairly sure I picked the term up from books, not local conversations.

Michael

[Karl J]

Originally posted by Michael Frankis
Hi Carlos,

Just wondering, how long till it's all an estuary again? Won't take much of a rise in sea level.

Yes Michael.... there are some scary predictions about Norfolk as a whole not just this area .... easier just not to look at that prospect.

As for 'carr' ..... I have to say I've never really thought about where it comes from - it just is ! .... birdmans thoughts of the origin sounds highly plausible though.
For my part ( being a southerner who's furthest trip 'oop narth' was a day in Nottingham ) its a word thats familiar from, as Michael says, habitat literature & also from time spent conservation volunteering. But it's mainly alder & willow