Scops Owl In Oxfordshire

[Reader]

The pager has announced a Scops Owl in Oxfordshire 4 miles north of Oxford near Kidlington at Thrupp at 9pm yesterday (present 3 weeks ).

Kept that quiet didn't they?

It is located at SP.482.159
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=448250&y=215950&z=3&sv=448250,215950&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=725&ax=448250&ay=215950

Go get him folks. I don't live that far away but I'm going to have to wait until Saturday before I go.

John

[josh jones]

Any Oxon birders know whether it can actually be seen? Could it just be an odd-calling Little Owl? Whereabouts in Thrupp is it? etc etc....

If its not showing I'm wondering whether there's much point in travelling down there to listen to a bird I've heard loads abroad...

[Rob Smallwood]

Courtesy of BG's:

20:42 13/06/06 Eurasian Scops Owl Oxon Thrupp 21:00 12/06/06

one calling at Thrupp, near Kidlington, 4 miles north of Oxford at SP482159. It has been there three weeks.

Due to access problems ALL birders are kindly requested to park away from the village and walk in.

There are several places to park within 1km of the village: at the north end of Kidlington, at Oxford airport, road-side parking along the main A4260 between Kidlington and Thrupp, at the garage 400m north of Thrupp or at Shipton followed by a walk along the canal.

[The Barn Owl]

If it isn't just a dodgy-calling Little Owl, and can be seen, as Josh pointed out, then I might see you there on Saturday John!

Best coincidence that's ever happened to me - earlier on Mum arranged that she was gonna go and visit her dad for the day to see some gardening show. As it happens, they live in a village just a few miles from Kidlington, so I'm more than a bit pleased! If all goes well it would be my first BB rarity

Just hope they get it pinned down tonight

Sam

[The Barn Owl]

Reported again tonight, calling over canal bridge

[Andrew]

Seen in flight, hmmmm.

[Graham S]

Photo on Surfbirds.

I think a trip to Thrupp tonight is in order.

[josh jones]

Seen in flight, hmmmm.

Sounds typical of how I've seen them abroad; becoming active and calling at dusk and then flying around as silhouettes. However, sounds like this bird is showing well from time to time.

[Rob Smallwood]

Isn't it about time that this thread degenerated into a barrage of anti-twitching/torch/tape lure/windfarm posts?!

Seriously - respect the villagers if you decide to go.

[Andrew]

From oxonbirds Yahoo! newsgroup..............

The bird has been heard occasionally during the day today and has been seen
briefly flitting between trees.

...........looks good.

[SteveNixon]

From oxonbirds Yahoo! newsgroup..............

The bird has been heard occasionally during the day today and has been seen
briefly flitting between trees.

...........looks good.


Birdguides seem to suggest that it's showing in a "Horse Chestnut by the kissing gate" at 14:49.

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Can anyone suggest any nearby sites my girlfriend may like to visit?

[Jos Stratford]

Can anyone suggest any nearby sites my girlfriend may like to visit?


Drop her in Oxford, only 4 miles or so south. Very nice town.

[Stephen Menzie]

Drop her in Oxford, only 4 miles or so south. Very nice town.

Good nightlife too, which could be useful given the times the bird is calling.

[Woodchatshrike]

From Birdguides this evening:-

Police have been ticketing cars parked in Thrupp village this evening!!

Scops still singing this evening. Do not use tape lures and keep to public rights of way.

I hope all you folk are parking carefully!!! Sounds like there is no need for tapes.

A Scops on a long summer evening would draw quite a crowd. I wish I was in Glos. I would have twitched that one no doubt!

[dbradnum]

Sounds good - I quite fancy going on Friday, so fingers crossed... If it started calling at about 8pm this evening as reported, then reasonable views ought to be on the cards.

[Richard Abr]

Sounds good - I quite fancy going on Friday, so fingers crossed... If it started calling at about 8pm this evening as reported, then reasonable views ought to be on the cards.

Still singing at 10.25pm tonight in horse chestnut tree according to Birdguides. Does anyone know if it has actually been seen this evening.
Cheers
Richard

[Darren Pearce]

I was there from 7 until 10-15 and did not see it. Some people did apparently see it as it sneaked out of the back of the horse chestnut tree.

Hopefully I will get another crack at it next week

[London Birder]

what a blinding record ..

[Graham S]

Just got in, what a fab twitch.

Scops calling from 20:40, then mobile from about 21:30 but not seen until finally pinned down at about 22:15 following which it showed well on and off. Calling most of the time.

Locals were all cool and interested in the happenings - someone set up a tea urn and did brisk business with proceeds to cystic fibrosis and a collection.
About 300 twitchers, still plenty there at midnight.

No sign of parking problems that I could see, people parked up on the main road away from the village. I parked in Shipton by the church where its a 10-15 minute walk along the canal.

Enjoy!

[dan pointon]

Just got in, what a fab twitch.

Scops calling from 20:40, then mobile from about 21:30 but not seen until finally pinned down at about 22:15 following which it showed well on and off. Calling most of the time.

Locals were all cool and interested in the happenings - someone set up a tea urn and did brisk business with proceeds to cystic fibrosis and a collection.
About 300 twitchers, still plenty there at midnight.

No sign of parking problems that I could see, people parked up on the main road away from the village. I parked in Shipton by the church where its a 10-15 minute walk along the canal.

Enjoy!

I've just got back as well, had good views of the bird eventually at around 10:15/30, though only by torchlight. As predicted, it was chaos down there, with stampedes of people running to see the bird! However I think all birders still present later on in the evening enjoyed good views, albeit a bit cramped and difficult due to sheer numbers. Definitely worth a look in...although today it was far easier seen by torchlight than in the day.

Cheers

Dan

ps - Look out for the marauding Little Owl that had a lot of people very panicky when it flew across the area in the fading light!!!

[Nick Smith]

I've just got back as well, had good views of the bird eventually at around 10:15/30, though only by torchlight. As predicted, it was chaos down there, with stampedes of people running to see the bird! However I think all birders still present later on in the evening enjoyed good views, albeit a bit cramped and difficult due to sheer numbers. Definitely worth a look in...although today it was far easier seen by torchlight than in the day.

Cheers

Dan

ps - Look out for the marauding Little Owl that had a lot of people very panicky when it flew across the area in the fading light!!!

Wow. I too was on the bridge looking at a distant tree in the field, trying to follow the wandering torch beam looking at what some birders described as a moving blob in the branches. Were you the one i was standing next to who said after the owl had flown - ' i haven't seen it yet? ' .....................................
Oh dear oh dear oh dear

[marek_walford]

I found the whole thing quite embarassing.

Hundreds of people literally running (most probably not knowing why).

Shining multiple high powered lamps on the bird (despite pager messages saying not to).

Standing right under the tree .

Cars parked all the way down the road into Thrupp (despite pager messages saying not to).

When somebody got it in torchlight and everybody stampeded back across the canal, we left. Shocking, though sadly not all that surprising.

[scary-canary]

I found the whole thing quite embarassing.

Hundreds of people literally running (most probably not knowing why).

Shining multiple high powered lamps on the bird (despite pager messages saying not to).

Standing right under the tree .

Cars parked all the way down the road into Thrupp (despite pager messages saying not to).

When somebody got it in torchlight and everybody stampeded back across the canal, we left. Shocking, though sadly not all that surprising.

Why did you go then? It was obvious that people would use torches to see an owl in the dark and also obvious that people had to park somewhere, and in my opinion the parking was very civilised, with few cars actually in the village. And as for 'people running" have you never been exited by the prospect of seeing a rarity.
If there had been any unacceptable behaviour or disturbance to the people in the village I might agree with you, but the behaviour I saw, until 11pm at least when I left, was perfectly proper. Are you just a twitching misery who hates twitching? Don't do it then. Don't keep a UK list - just go and see scops owl abroad, which is not a difficult task.

[baillieswells]

Why did you go then? It was obvious that people would use torches to see an owl in the dark and also obvious that people had to park somewhere, and in my opinion the parking was very civilised, with few cars actually in the village. And as for 'people running" have you never been exited by the prospect of seeing a rarity.
If there had been any unacceptable behaviour or disturbance to the people in the village I might agree with you, but the behaviour I saw, until 11pm at least when I left, was perfectly proper. Are you just a twitching misery who hates twitching? Don't do it then. Don't keep a UK list - just go and see scops owl abroad, which is not a difficult task.

I find all this extraordinary. I mainly birdwatch in my garden, and with fifteen species which I know to have nested this spring, I am quite content.There may be others.
Mallard, Moorhen, Blackbird, Mistle Thrush, Song Thrush, Robin, Chaffinch, Hedge Sparrow, Great Tit, Blue Tit, Wren, Collared Dove, Wood Pigeon, Pheasant, Little Owl. I have also seen a fledgling Green Woodpecker being fed on the lawn.

I watch birds because I like watching birds, the speciesis not that important.

[Tim Allwood]

ha ha ha

the sight of loads of twitchers running around trying to lamp an Otus must be very amusing though? Bit of a skill that...

might be a good way to spend a Fri evening? Few beers in ya, get lamping, celebrate, sleep it off in the car... almost tempted

don't get ticketed tickers

Tim

[marek_walford]

Why did you go then? It was obvious that people would use torches to see an owl in the dark and also obvious that people had to park somewhere, and in my opinion the parking was very civilised, with few cars actually in the village.

If you've been instructed not to use torches (for obvious reasons) then you shouldn't use them. It was reported "difficult to see" but not impossible in the last minutes of daylight. Cars were parked all the way down the Thrupp road from the main road. Police were ticketing cars.

And as for 'people running" have you never been exited by the prospect of seeing a rarity.

300 hundred people running at once predictably flushed the bird.

If there had been any unacceptable behaviour or disturbance to the people in the village I might agree with you, but the behaviour I saw, until 11pm at least when I left, was perfectly proper.

It's about two things:

The birds welfare - i.e. not dazzling and flushing it.
Respecting the residents - i.e. not clogging up their village with cars.

Are you just a twitching misery who hates twitching? Don't do it then. Don't keep a UK list - just go and see scops owl abroad, which is not a difficult task.

Why does criticism of birders actions always degenrate into twitcher bashing? I've no problem with it at all, hence why I was there. Just pointing out a general lack of respect for instructions given by the pager companies.

[Tim Allwood]

might be a bit less contentious if people could find it roosting and watch from a respectable distance?

one or two people lamping in a rainforest for a few seconds isn't going to be too disturbing - loads of loons (affectionate used term, note!) running around trying to lamp it might be counter-productive - the old Hampshire bird was done with a disconnected car headlight enabling the group to have views, but i guess organising something similar would be tricky

Tim

[London Birder]

save batteries, tick it on call :hippy:

[dan pointon]

Wow. I too was on the bridge looking at a distant tree in the field, trying to follow the wandering torch beam looking at what some birders described as a moving blob in the branches. Were you the one i was standing next to who said after the owl had flown - ' i haven't seen it yet? ' .....................................
Oh dear oh dear oh dear

Yep that was me John, saw it twice later in the horse chestnut trees.....never in flight - did you manage to see it in the end?

[Frootshoot]

Hear hear Marek, I totally agree.

James

[Rob Smallwood]

Isn't it about time that this thread degenerated into a barrage of anti-twitching/torch/tape lure/windfarm posts?!

Seriously - respect the villagers if you decide to go.

This is more like it!!

Whilst I've not been I'd like to (and would if I lived nearer)- but I'm prepared to bet that it won't be around that much longer - having enjoyed 3+ weeks relatively un-disturbed it won't enjoy the current amount of interest.

[Kite]

ha ha ha

the sight of loads of twitchers running around trying to lamp an Otus must be very amusing though? Bit of a skill that...

might be a good way to spend a Fri evening? Few beers in ya, get lamping, celebrate, sleep it off in the car... almost tempted

don't get ticketed tickers

Tim

Sounds like an enjoyable plan!

It was highly amusing, especially when there was a scrum to get through the kissing gate, and birders went hurling themselves over the fence instead of queuing... one poor bloke misjudged it and hit the deck with a hefty thud.

The bird didn't seem to mind the torches... better than the rumoured fate it may have met the bird if a local (who happens to be a gamekeeper) had got his way. Apparently the bird was really p*ssing him off with its irritating calls (quite believable), and he fancied terminating it... but agreed not to when he heard it was rare.

[josh jones]

ps - Look out for the marauding Little Owl that had a lot of people very panicky when it flew across the area in the fading light!!!


Good advice - watch it boys, it gave us a fright at first when it flew by. And watch the woodpeckers, too.

What a bird though.

[scary-canary]

If you've been instructed not to use torches (for obvious reasons) then you shouldn't use them. It was reported "difficult to see" but not impossible in the last minutes of daylight. Cars were parked all the way down the Thrupp road from the main road. Police were ticketing cars.



300 hundred people running at once predictably flushed the bird.



It's about two things:

The birds welfare - i.e. not dazzling and flushing it.
Respecting the residents - i.e. not clogging up their village with cars.



Why does criticism of birders actions always degenrate into twitcher bashing? I've no problem with it at all, hence why I was there. Just pointing out a general lack of respect for instructions given by the pager companies.

Since when did what the pagers say become law? And two how can my criticism of your miserable attitude be considered twitcher bashing, as I was there too and I saw a completely different scene to the one you witnessed. i don't believe people moving flushed it - these birds call and fly all night long.

[josh jones]

Since when did what the pagers say become law? And two how can my criticism of your miserable attitude be considered twitcher bashing, as I was there too and I saw a completely different scene to the one you witnessed. i don't believe people moving flushed it - these birds call and fly all night long.

we always end up with these debates, there are always people determined to make it sound an awful experience, getting too close to the bird, flushing it, photographers in the way, no tape luring etc etc etc.

[marek_walford]

Since when did what the pagers say become law?

The pagers will have contact with locals, the recorder etc. and be in the best position to give the best advice. They won't be making up guidelines for no reason.

And two how can my criticism of your miserable attitude be considered twitcher bashing, as I was there too and I saw a completely different scene to the one you witnessed.

There's no need to get personal. I don't have a miserable attitude. You accused me of being "a twitching misery who hates twitching" to which I pointed out that I'm not that at all, and was merely highlighting the lack of respect for instructions given by the pager companies.

i don't believe people moving flushed it - these birds call and fly all night long.

As Tim pointed out "one or two people lamping in a rainforest for a few seconds isn't going to be too disturbing - loads of loons (affectionate used term, note!) running around trying to lamp it might be counter-productive"

[scary-canary]

The pagers will have contact with locals, the recorder etc. and be in the best position to give the best advice. They won't be making up guidelines for no reason.

And what is the point of asking people not to use spotlights?

[Darren Pearce]

The pager also advised that the police were ticketing cars, did anyone see them or did anyone get a ticket because I was parked sensibly in the lane and there were no police nor tickets.

[malcurtin]

I've just got back as well, had good views of the bird eventually at around 10:15/30, though only by torchlight. As predicted, it was chaos down there, with stampedes of people running to see the bird! However I think all birders still present later on in the evening enjoyed good views, albeit a bit cramped and difficult due to sheer numbers. Definitely worth a look in...although today it was far easier seen by torchlight than in the day.

Cheers

Dan

ps - Look out for the marauding Little Owl that had a lot of people very panicky when it flew across the area in the fading light!!!
Well done Dan....What a fantastic bird-believe you went down with some of the Casuals on the second wave...I had already had the bird with the first wave,we had it to ourselves at 1am!Not another soul there.Got on that Little Owl perched by the canal once as well which caused some fun....Cheers Malc

[Jos Stratford]

Since when did what the pagers say become law? And two how can my criticism of your miserable attitude be considered twitcher bashing, as I was there too and I saw a completely different scene to the one you witnessed. i don't believe people moving flushed it - these birds call and fly all night long.


Pagers try to (a) encourage a little respect for the locals and (b) encourage a little respect for the bird ...then we get idiots who declare the pagers advice irrelevant. I'm certainly not anti-twitcher, but were I to find an owl in the UK, then found nerds ignoring all the requests to act responsibly, I would certainly suppress the next one I found. You saw a different scene ...seems the ticketing police did too. And as for 'these birds call and fly all night', so that's okay, send in the stampedes to help them along, blind them too with a spotlight ...never know, maybe you'll get lucky and it'll fly into a tree and then you can watch it do some more natural behaviour.

[scary-canary]

then we get idiots who declare the pagers advice irrelevant. .
What was that about not getting personal?

[Jos Stratford]

And what is the point of asking people not to use spotlights?

Have a think - yes, a few minutes of spot lighting is neither here nor there, but this owl for being twitched for a good portion of the night. Do a little experiment for yourself - get someone to shine a light in your eyes, then try to look for something small in the darkness beyond ...er, can't see it, I hear you mutter. Shine a torch in an owls eyes and I would guess it could be the same to some degree, making hunting a bit harder - do this for soime hours and quite a chunk of the available hunting time is lost. But don't worry yourself, Scary-Canary, you saw your bird, so sod the pagers and the bird, the world is fab today, all 'cos you got your bird.

[Jos Stratford]

What was that about not getting personal?

Wasn't me who mentioned 'getting personal' but besides it is nothing personal, it my opinion that ALL persons who don't show a slight degree of responsibility are idiots, not least cos it will be them moaning when the next bird is suppressed. :)

[scary-canary]

Have a think - yes, a few minutes of spot lighting is neither here nor there, but this owl for being twitched for a good portion of the night. Do a little experiment for yourself - get someone to shine a light in your eyes, then try to look for something small in the darkness beyond ...er, can't see it, I hear you mutter. Shine a torch in an owls eyes and I would guess it could be the same to some degree, making hunting a bit harder - do this for soime hours and quite a chunk of the available hunting time is lost. But don't worry yourself, Scary-Canary, you saw your bird, so sod the pagers and the bird, the world is fab today, all 'cos you got your bird.
I repeat, as did Marek, no need to get personal. And I apologise to marek if i was rude, as he's probably quite a nice bloke.
But if what you say is what you believe why don't the pagers suppress all owl news that is likely to result in owls being disturbed by spotlights, because there's no way anyone will ever see the bird without spotlights.

[Tim Allwood]

well said Jos

loads of people chasing it with spotlights (bought for the occasion, no doubt) isn't clever.

and a bit sad

done with a bit of organisation and skill it could be a good experience for all and of minimal disturbance to the bird. Sounds like a load of tw*ats that have about as much idea as Graham Poll does about refereeing though

Tim

[DEREK CHARLES]

Scary Canary, before you press the submit reply, button read over what you have written, please!
The birds welfare is paramount and should always be the number 1 priority, at ALL times.I am a twitcher but i would not condone or be party to what went on there last night.Thanks to Jos and Marek for their well thought out and sensible comments.

Derek

ps what is wrong with just listening to the bird, why does everyone have to see it?

[MSA]

If the bird is anywhere near houses, then the disturbance by spotlights affects more than just the bird.

[Mike Johnston]

well said Jos

loads of people chasing it with spotlights (bought for the occasion, no doubt) isn't clever.

and a bit sad

done with a bit of organisation and skill it could be a good experience for all and of minimal disturbance to the bird. Sounds like a load of tw*ats that have about as much idea as Graham Poll does about refereeing though

Tim

:clap: :clap: :clap: Suppression will become more and more common. News won't even be passed to the pagers, because even if sensible advice is given its just ignored. 300 people running around in the dark with spotlights, throwing themselves over walls, etc. is just macho, Rambo bo**ocks.

[scary-canary]

If the bird is anywhere near houses, then the disturbance by spotlights affects more than just the bird.
It wasn't.

[josh jones]

loads of people chasing it with spotlights (bought for the occasion, no doubt) isn't clever.

and a bit sad


Err.... why no doubt? People usually have a torch or spotlight at home somewhere! And loads of people weren't chasing it. From what I could see it was a select few people attempting to spotlight it each time while the main horde "tickers" stood their ground watching the tree.

[Poet For Sale]

Good lord :eek!: It's worse here than Secondary School lunch times ;)

Scored the Porthgwarra bird a couple of years back, thank god one of the guys next to me randomly looked down his scope to see if it was clean! The bird was smack bang in the middle on the bank!

Possibly popping up this weekend sometime after a day of Butterflies, hope it's not a scene from 'Apocalypse Now' ;)

As for pagers..... Anyone remember the lovely little message about the speed trap when the Audoins turned up at Dunge??? Nice one guys :clap:


But seriously, I'd rather take my chances in Reading on a saturday night than cause Turdus in here. Bird joke, geddit? No? Ok ;)


Take it easy guys,

and remember - I may be young, but surely they'd take your bus passes away for causing this on the streets, so why here? ;)

Bit stressed from an exam so don't take anything personally. Seems the heat's getting to us all. Nice breeze today though!


Good birding as always

Lisle x :hippy:

[scary-canary]

:clap: :clap: :clap: Suppression will become more and more common. News won't even be passed to the pagers, because even if sensible advice is given its just ignored. 300 people running around in the dark with spotlights, throwing themselves over walls, etc. is just macho, Rambo bo**ocks.
Were you there? Because I didn't see any of this behaviour that you are all so quick to condemn. And yes of course the welfare of the bird must come first, but i don't believe what I saw (and was part of) until 11pm last night had any detrimental effect on the bird, or the residents. I don't think there was excessive or gratuitous use of lights and the crowd seemed very well-behaved in an area that was away from residential houses. If it all went wrong after that then I'm sorry to have given the wrong impression.

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

This may help

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=133766&Referrer=GoogleStore

[josh jones]

Shine a torch in an owls eyes and I would guess it could be the same to some degree, making hunting a bit harder - do this for soime hours and quite a chunk of the available hunting time is lost.

The thing is Jos, is that the bird continued singing despite the torchlight on it - surely if it was so affected by the light it would shut up and bugger off somewhere else. It moved between trees just as Scops Owls do abroad when they are singing, and they don't have torchlights on them then. So as far as I am concerned, the fact that the torches may affect the bird is not worth even going in to. 'Cos they weren't. The bird was acting normally, just as they do abroad when they don't have 350 twitchers running after them.

Anyway, back to disobeying the pager.......

[josh jones]

:clap: :clap: :clap: Suppression will become more and more common. News won't even be passed to the pagers, because even if sensible advice is given its just ignored. 300 people running around in the dark with spotlights, throwing themselves over walls, etc. is just macho, Rambo bo**ocks.

Were you there? When were people throwing themselves over walls? Please do tell.

[Mike Johnston]

Were you there? Because I didn't see any of this behaviour that you are all so quick to condemn. And yes of course the welfare of the bird must come first, but i don't believe what I saw (and was part of) until 11pm last night had any detrimental effect on the bird, or the residents. I don't think there was excessive or gratuitous use of lights and the crowd seemed very well-behaved in an area that was away from residential houses. If it all went wrong after that then I'm sorry to have given the wrong impression.
No, I wasn't there, thank God. But here's a few quotes from posts of those who were there. They obviously had a different experience than you. Or perhaps a different experience of what is acceptable:

'As predicted, it was chaos down there, with stampedes of people running to see the bird!'

'I found the whole thing quite embarassing.'

'Hundreds of people literally running (most probably not knowing why).'

'Shining multiple high powered lamps on the bird (despite pager messages saying not to).'

'Standing right under the tree .'

'When somebody got it in torchlight...everybody stampeded back across the canal'

'300 hundred people running at once predictably flushed the bird.'

'there was a scrum to get through the kissing gate, and birders went hurling themselves over the fence instead of queuing... one poor bloke misjudged it and hit the deck with a hefty thud.'

[Mike Johnston]

Were you there? When were people throwing themselves over walls? Please do tell.
Fence/wall, whatever.

[Kite]

Were you there? Because I didn't see any of this behaviour that you are all so quick to condemn. And yes of course the welfare of the bird must come first, but i don't believe what I saw (and was part of) until 11pm last night had any detrimental effect on the bird, or the residents. I don't think there was excessive or gratuitous use of lights and the crowd seemed very well-behaved in an area that was away from residential houses. If it all went wrong after that then I'm sorry to have given the wrong impression.

Quite. Most people here are just guessing what was going on, and reaching the conclusion that the whole thing was a diabolical mess with screaming locals and owls dropping out of trees with their eyes burnt out by hundreds of hugely powerful torches, neither of which were the case.
There's a difference between the perceived view of twitches and what actually happens, its just forums like this where people like to whinge and knock twitches even without any real evidence that make everyone think everything is awful. Its like the news... nobody cares about stories of where everything is going well, all they want to hear about is murders etc.
Its a shame if supression becomes more common cos of the sort of drivel written here, good job nobody takes whats written on BF seriously... do they?!

[Kite]

'there was a scrum to get through the kissing gate, and birders went hurling themselves over the fence instead of queuing... one poor bloke misjudged it and hit the deck with a hefty thud.'

Bit of enthusiasm. The fence wasn't designed to keep people out, so doesn't really matter if people climb over it does it?

[scary-canary]

Its a shame if supression becomes more common cos of the sort of drivel written here, good job nobody takes whats written on BF seriously... do they?!
Unfortunately I suspect some people do.

[PhilW]

I was there last night and was lucky enough to get good views of the bird as we were actually stood by the tree it decided to fly back into after crossing the canal. The fact isit chose to fly 200 m across the canal to where a handful of birders were already stood. There were only 3-4 people with lamps but they were told to stop using them and let one person put his light on the bird until everyone had got decent views. Once I had my view I backed off to allow others to fill my place. Yes it was a major twitch although I believe the 'official number' from the oxon birds group was 250ish.

What was more annoying was the idiots who, having absolutely no field craft, talked loudly and left their mobiles on ring rather than silent. When the Owl appeared in the tree in front of us someone started yelling into his phone telling his mate he'd got it. I don't think he had any comprehension as to why he was politely asked to stop.

The fact that the Scops showed at all with the amount of talking going on was a sure sign that it wasn't easily spooked. Whats wrong with people these days? Can't they whisper?

We also got the message that cars were being ticketed by the police but didn't see any cars with tickets on. Waht we did see though was the whole street lined with parked cars, albeit sensibly, even though people were asked not to park in the village.

Many of the locals were out watching events and seemed quite amused by it all. They knew a lot of peope would turn out as I understand discussions with both the police and the local parish councillor were made to negotiate access before the news was broadcast. The landlord of the pub showed enterprise by setting up a tea and coffee stall and moeny was also raised for cystic fibrosis.

I didn't see any crass or rude behaviour but I can forsee problems if residents are kept awake by birders over the coming few days.

[Tim Allwood]

Josh

torches from home are generally crap for spotlighting

when you've lamped owls in a variety of places for a long time you get an idea of whether it's disturbing or not...

and i dont think it particularly is at low levels...

Tim

[dan pointon]

Isn't it about time that this thread degenerated into a barrage of anti-twitching/torch/tape lure/windfarm posts?!


Think Rob had the destination of this thread clocked way back in post 9.... unfortunately it's becoming a predictable sameness.

Well done on getting it so early Malc, to be fair I think it would have been a hell of a lot better experience if the numbers were half of what they were last night...definitely worth another trip.

[London Birder]

I suggest everyone just links arms and gives the good people of Thrupp a rousing chorus of 'Kumbaya' ...

Think I'll wait till one turns up in Berks just so I can add 'Otus Reading' into the notebook.

[ChrisTurner]

Think Rob had the destination of this thread clocked way back in post 9.... unfortunately it's becoming a predictable sameness.

So in summary - the bird was flushed by twitching scum lead by arch Twitcher Marek, blinded by a barrage or torches and in the confusion flew into the blades of a wind turbine. I blame the RSPB.

Chris

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

I suggest everyone just links arms and gives the good people of Thrupp a rousing chorus of 'Kumbaya' ...

Think I'll wait till one turns up in Berks just so I can add 'Otus Reading' into the notebook.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
:'D

Sweet

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Derek,
ps what is wrong with just listening to the bird, why does everyone have to see it?
To get it on their lists, of course: I mean, I walked through the vegetation for half an hour while playing tapes last year for the Cetti's Warbler, and got decent views once or twice when it had been scared into isolated bushes....
...of course, the above is just a load of b****cks, and the views obtained were, through necessity, from 100m plus distance through a scope.
I have no doubt, given some of those who I know that went for this owl, that many present were responsible and respected the bird, but, in any crowd over a certain size, there will be problems. I mean, have I told you the story about the Loop Head Common Yellowthroat? If not, I'll do so by e-mail some time...probably the least enjoyable twitch that I've been on where I actually managed to see the target bird (many worse ones that involved dips).
Regards,
Harry
P.S. Ticking on call? I like that idea, could lay the bogey of Tree Pipit (in Ireland) to rest then.... ;)

[SteveNixon]

I was there too ('till around 1:00), and I think Phil has it pretty well summed up what it was like. I've seen lots of "bad" twitches and I don't think this was one of them. I assume that the people who released the news were aware that there would be a big turn out (partly why the news was released mid-week?) and I agree that an organised "lamping" would have been more ideal. However, the news WAS released with the full knowledge that several hundred birders would want to see the owl and I'm not sure exactly how that was going to be acheived in the dark without lamps??

Steve

[josh jones]

So in summary - the bird was flushed by twitching scum lead by arch Twitcher Marek, blinded by a barrage or torches and in the confusion flew into the blades of a wind turbine. I blame the RSPB.

Chris

via several terrifying experiences with photographers getting too close, yes I think you've summed it up pretty well.

[josh jones]

Quite. Most people here are just guessing what was going on, and reaching the conclusion that the whole thing was a diabolical mess with screaming locals and owls dropping out of trees with their eyes burnt out by hundreds of hugely powerful torches, neither of which were the case.
There's a difference between the perceived view of twitches and what actually happens, its just forums like this where people like to whinge and knock twitches even without any real evidence that make everyone think everything is awful. Its like the news... nobody cares about stories of where everything is going well, all they want to hear about is murders etc.
Its a shame if supression becomes more common cos of the sort of drivel written here, good job nobody takes whats written on BF seriously... do they?!

Well said Kite - you have summed it up superbly. Such threads always turn in to bickering. Anyone remember the Green Heron? The Elegant Tern...?

[London Birder]

'On Ticking A Bird Without Seeing It'

no real reason why not, just personal preference .. having seen Scop's abroad I'd tick it on call for sure! It's still an encounter with a Scop's ...

Unless of course Little Owl is imitating it (but surely that never happens) ;-)

[johnraven]

It's funny how some of you lot get so wound up about the alleged behaviour of a few twitchers when there is apparently a local bloke who intended to blow the bird's brains out!!! Perspective people. Killing the bird out does irritating it with torches. No, really.

[Rob Smallwood]

Mimicry - has anyone ruled out Marsh Warbler...?

[London Birder]

lol :clap:

[Tim Allwood]

Don't think the lamping will effect it that much as i mentioned earlier as long as it doesn't become silly

Couldn't cope with the less thoughtful element though - even though i probably was one before i realised it and grew up... a bit

in the big scheme of things it's not a problem is it? If boys wanna chase birds, fair enough... some of them are old enough to know better though!!!

[wolfbirder]

I see there is an immigration control centre a mile away. Surely then it will remain in the UK for some time to come then! ;)

[London Birder]

maybe that's were it came from!

[The Big Dipper]

maybe that's were it came from!

If this birds was a duck, there'd be a raging debate about its authenticity as a truly wild bird as opposed to a fence hopper. Has anyone confirmed that this bird isn't an escapee?

[London Birder]

unless it's ringed I'm not sure how anyone could ascertain that to be honest ..

[trealawboy]

unless it's ringed I'm not sure how anyone could ascertain that to be honest ..

True of many wandering wildfowl of course.

I guess owl sanctuary's would know what is missing from their collections? Do any birders bother checking?

[PhilW]

I'm pretty sure that as the bird has been present for 3 weeks already those responsible for negotiating access would have done their homework.

[Reader]

I hope this thread isn't going to degenerate into a free for all where members slate other members for their style of birding. If it does I am going to ask the moderators to pull it.

By all means if you see something wrong going on at the site lets talk about. Likewise if it is done correctly also say so but stop getting personal.

Some people wonder why I don't post so much now. It is precisely because of throw away comments that are not needed in any thread.

John

[dbradnum]

I hope this thread isn't going to degenerate into a free for all where members slate other members for their style of birding. If it does I am going to ask the moderators to pull it.

By all means if you see something wrong going on at the site lets talk about. Likewise if it is done correctly also say so but stop getting personal.

:clap:

[stuart winter]

Come on, lads, enjoy. The local population seems hospitable if incredulous; the bird should remain long enough for most people to see it; the Old Bill will make a few bob from parking tickets, the pubs will make even more from celebratory pints; and I've got some material for this week's column. I am happier than Wayne Rooney's fourth metatarsal....

S

[jdj]

This may help

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=133766&Referrer=GoogleStore

Must be a pretty naughty twitch if you need to visit Tooled Up dotcom before you go. I blame the police for stopping the hoolies going to Germany.

It's only a game, guys.

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Must be a pretty naughty twitch if you need to visit Tooled Up dotcom before you go. I blame the police for stopping the hoolies going to Germany.

It's only a game, guys.

Sense of humour failure dude... :t:

[StevieEvans]

Methinks that pub landlord is a crafty old sod & has released his star turn.....

"better phone that XXL order in to the brewery, its nearly the weekend !" B (:

ah! all those celebratery pints, i can picture him cashing up now.....


(it does seem remarkably tollerant of mass disturbance & multiple applications of million candlepower............... think i'll wait for a wild one ;) )

Steve

[Andrew]

Mega bird turns up and the BF faithful descend into twitcher bashing. Boringly and pathetically predictable! GET A LIFE.

Enough to put me off my beer.

Cool bird. Good to meet you Dan.

[Richard Abr]

Birdguides report it as still singing in the grounds of the Boat Inn at 10.30pm.
Anyone know if it was possible to see it in there. I see from the OS map that there is a public footpath on the northwest side of the pub, or maybe the landlord has allowed birders to watch from the car park?
Cheers
Richard

[Gavin Haig]

Enough to put me off my beer.
A clear case of hyperbole m'lud - it is well known that our Andrew and a keg of 6X are joined at the hip................

[Mike Johnston]

Mega bird turns up and the BF faithful descend into twitcher bashing.

Not twitcher bashing, just tw*t-cher bashing. Its the tw*ts who wreck it for the twits, or something like that! ;)


GET A LIFE.

Probably what the locals are thinking as they watch 300 grown men stampede in excitement, vaulting fences as they go. :-O

But anyway, we're all sad b*stards to the general public. Glad you got your bird. :t: Have one for me. B (:

[London Birder]

'bashin' twitchers' ... sounds like some sort of olde English rustic pastime ... wonder if Billy Waggledagger ever partook?

[Richard Norris]

'bashin' twitchers' ... sounds like some sort of olde English rustic pastime ... wonder if Billy Waggledagger ever partook?

I'm sure that was a song that Ramblin' Sid Rumpole sang in "Round the Horne" (one for the oldies amongst us) - it wasn't good for you, along with nadgering your moolies. o:)

Does anyone know if it is possible to see the bird during the day? I'm down that way today and tomorrow but family duties mean that night-time is not going to be possible.

[Richard Abr]

Has anybody any updates on the owl since it was reported as calling in the grounds of the Boat Inn at 10.30pm last night? Maybe it will have returned to its original favoured area during the night?
With regard to Richard's question I would have thought it very diificult to see in the daytime. Apparently it was reported as calling one day during daylight and seen briefly in flight, but for a nocturnal species nightime has to be the best time for seeing the bird.
Cheers
Richard

[dbradnum]

Reported calling at NE end of village at 4.30am this morning...

[Tim Allwood]

not sure it's been mentioned but there are pix on surfbirds by Ashley Banwell. He's very well travelled so i was suprised to see it was a world tick for him - but his 29th Otus

Tim

[Andrew]

Some advice.

STAY in the field and do not run around like a blue arsed fly (I did). It returns to the large 'oak' trees reguarly and the self appointed ringleaders will lamp it.

Staying there means you are first in the crowd under the tree and enjoying good views.

Also leave your scope home. Scopes on your shoulders in crowds in the dark do not mix. Scope is redundant anyway unless you are digiscoping.

[johnraven]

I went last night, it was all very pleasant and civilised, if slightly funny as all big twitches are. The locals in Thrupp are just incredibly friendly. As I walked towards the end of the village, a couple of geezers obviously bit pissed up from celebrating the game, point out the sound of it calling to me and wish me luck in seeing it, then another bloke provides directions just cos I looked a little lost. Small children were running around offering drinks. It's some kind of rural paradise hidden away in oxfordshire.

I got a few glimpses of it, but you'll never see it during the day. Seriously leafy chestnut tree was favoured.

[Xenospiza]

save batteries, tick it on call
Yep, as the Dutch do (and I did).
The only twitchable Scops Owl in the last 15 years hid itself in a lime tree so well hardly anyone saw it, despite the use of torches (which got some people upset, because it might chase the bird away). Heard it call 5000 times (!), saw nothing... Well it surely wasn't a Midwife Toad this time... (yes, that has happened too).
Scops is a town bird in Southern Europe: they shouldn't care too much about noise and lights!

On the other hand, I can fully support suppression of Tengmalm's Owl (heard only as well), after some nasty incidents in the Low Countries involving "twatchers".

[JDatchens]

I went last night, it was all very pleasant and civilised, if slightly funny as all big twitches are. The locals in Thrupp are just incredibly friendly.

I was there last night too, from about 9:00 - 10:30pm. No signs of any bad behaviour, bright lights or disturbance to either the bird or the locals - as John says, a friendly if bemused but also enterprising bunch of folk, organising hot drinks: 2 or 3 different providers, one at least for charity. It was possible on one occasion to see the bird before it got too dark (although sadly, even following the directions given, I was unable to pick it up before it flew.) After dark, there was the added bonus of being able to hear the calls of both Little and Long-eared Owls not far away.

Most people had obeyed instructions to park on the main road and not in the village as far as I could see. Having parked slightly further away at the garage, my only grumble is that a few of those parked on the grass verge had completely blocked the tarmac footpath, which is only on the one side of this busy A-road thus making it dangerous for pedestrians, especially returning in the dark, as it was necessary to step onto the carriageway in order to pass. The verge is more than wide enough to accomodate cars on the grass, leaving the pavement clear. There were no signs of ticketing, although I personally think those few who thoughtlessly parked on the footapth should have been!

Finally, as we returned to our vehicle at the garage at about 10:45pm, we could hear the bird calling from way across the fields in the direction of the canal! (When there were no passing cars, that is!)

[MikeCross]

Some advice.

STAY in the field and do not run around like a blue arsed fly (I did). It returns to the large 'oak' trees reguarly and the self appointed ringleaders will lamp it.

Staying there means you are first in the crowd under the tree and enjoying good views.

Also leave your scope home. Scopes on your shoulders in crowds in the dark do not mix. Scope is redundant anyway unless you are digiscoping.


Staying in the field in the vicinity of the tree (preferrably the one half way along rather than the one by the gate) and not taking your scope are spot on in terms of advice. I was there on Wednesday and it was chaos. When the crowd ran the first time the corner by the 5 bar gate resembled Beecher's Brook (but with more fallers).
A bizarre experience in summary but very worthwhile and entertaining nevertheless.
Significant that the pager messages gave out four requests
a) not to park in the village
b) not to use lamps
c) not to use tape lures
d) not to stray off rights of way.

All four were broken , not in some minor way but in spectacular fashion.
Whilst not prescriptive all four were advice given for pretty obvious reasons.
On the other hand if it weren't for b, c, and d being broken I wouldn't have seen the bird. Yes I'm a hypocrite!

So I'll focus my criticism on a). It was disappointing (yet sadly predictable) that a) was so widely ignored on Wednesday. To be honest I didn't see any dangerous or illegal parking but that's not the point. There was an implicit contract between the residents and the birders - we've told you about the bird and in return you respect our wishes. Fair enough I thought but no whilst many of us were prepared to walk a short distance to see the bird for others it was a walk too far. Did anyone give any thought to emergency vehcle access? Did anyone consider parking for any disabled residents without off road parking facilities?

Whinge over. Stay by the trees and don't take your scope. The latter also leaves your elbows free to deal with the selfish gits staying under the tree for their umpteenth prolonged views whilst others haven't had even a glimpse.

[Xenospiza]

Usually, I find people are positive towards mass twitches (hey sir, the bird is over there!), and twitchers are glad to inform the public (look in that tree!)
In case of trouble, just be understanding and helpful!

[will bowell]

When my bitch looked in her crystal ball the other night, there were a couple of things she predicted, one was that there would be a Scop’s Owl (or two…shhhhhhhh!) reported over the weekend, and secondly that there would be big hoo and indeed har on this forum about behaviour.

She didn’t tell me how long the Scop’s would stay, but I assumed it would stay for quite a while so didn’t go on Wednesday night, went last night though with a couple Peterborough birders (they like to be called the Friday Twitcher’s Club).

The bird showed occasionally, quite badly at times, quite well at others. Amazingly got flushed a few times by the passing train, which you would have thought it would be used to by now (especially if it’s been there for 6-8 weeks like the locals told us). It did go off hunting at one point (went silent) but when it came back it was duly lamped (which didn’t disturb/flush it at all).

Two of the locals didn’t take kindly to this as had been told (presumably the night before) that lamping was the work of the devil and the bird would be completely scared sh*tless. However, despite this the bird continued calling from a tree and moving to another in a normal fashion, in fact lingered in the trees far longer than the birds I heard and saw in Corsica a couple of weeks ago were doing, proving that the impact of the lampers (and lampets) was bugger all.

A couple of locals got quite aggressive about it and demanded to take the lamp off the birder, who duly refused and there was a right old argument. Real entertainment value, unfortunately the birders I were with decided we should leave at this point, as it got out of hand really. Shame, since it seems it was generally down to some birders telling the locals it was wrong to lamp the bird (presumably after having good lamp-lit eye fulls of it themselves) the night before that actually caused the most disturbance to the bird as the locals decided to start a shouting match under the tree the bird was in.

Shame- would have been an enjoyable evening otherwise as the other locals were really friendly and a good laugh- nuff respect to them and their posh accents.

Check your bad selves people.
Will
p.s. rather ironically the bloke of the two who were getting annoyed about the birders disturbing 'their' bird seemed to be the bloke who wanted it shot just a few weeks before!

[Mike Johnston]

While the lamping may not have appeared to cause this bird too much distress, its the fact that people went ahead and did it without seeming to give a sh*t whether it would affect the bird or not. And the fact that it was prolonged lamping. The fact remains that every time the bird received an eyeful of lamp it was effectively blinded for hunting for up to one hour. (see quotes below). If that goes on over a prolonged period I would begin to worry.

Retinal rods take 30-40 min to dark adapt (i.e. achieve their maximal sensitivity so they can detect single photons) after being exposed to bright light. This is true for both birds and mammals. A nocturnally-hunting bird would therefore be out of action in dim light for around 1 hour after being exposed to the spotlight. If that hour were crucial for survival, or if another team came later and compounded the problem, then spotlighting would have deleterious effects that night...The impact of being effectively blinded for an hour after being spotlighted would have to be judged carefully for each bird, based upon knowledge of their natural history and routines.
JD Pettigrew FRS
Professor of Physiology and Director VTHRC
Vision Touch and Hearing Research Centre
University of Queensland

I have flash photographed captive owls and they seem to be undisturbed, but they will even stare straight into a photoflood light, which must erradicate any dark adaptation and leave them functionally blind for a couple of minutes. Therefore this is not a good indication of whether photographic lights will disrupt natural behaviours. In view of all this, it seems reasonable always to err on the side of caution in these matters. The scotopic spectral sensitivity and rate of dark adaptation of avian retinas are very similar to those of mammals, including ourselves. Thus if our own dark adapted vision is disrupted by the flash used then it is wise to presume that the bird's dark adaptation will be equally affected. If we are temporally "blinded" by the flash then so also will be the bird for a similar length of time. For example, if you knock out a fully dark adapted retina assume it will take up to 30min for full sensitivity to be recovered.
Graham R. Martin BSc, PhD, DSc.
(Reader in Avian Sensory Science)
The University of Birmingham

[wally170]

Is it true that Barn Owls are 'attracted' to headlights on cars, thats one of the reasons so many are killed by the roadside. My own, slightly less educated but perfectly rational view on this is, Barn Owls are 'blinded' by car headlights, meaning they can't see what they need to avoid. Read into this what you will, but i have a better option than using a lamp of any kind.

EAT MORE CARROTS

[will bowell]

Tawny Owls certainly like roads and use headlights to locate prey on wet nights.

It's a blinking bird (what else can it do to reflect the harmful rays of those evil torches) ppl, stop trying to guess that's somethings wrong with it- we'll soon know if there is, cos it will bugger off!

Lee Evans, who watched the Scops for far long than I did last night, said they had it in the spot light several times and the bird didn't look into the light. It is suggested the bird and the residents are left from mid-night onwards as it can usually have been seen well by then anyway.

Will

[Tim Allwood]

people just need to use their effing brains and not continually lamp it. It perhaps ought to be done once or twice and if you're such an idiot that you can't get onto it then come back the next night.

there must be a few people, even among twitchers, who can lamp stuff with a bit of speed and precision (hopefully, this is happening).

birds aren't very clever and even if it's pissed off it may remain around. My neighbour's cats go for my blackbirds every day, but they keep coming back to the same spot when they could easily shift 25 yards etc...

it's those nerds who 'need' it that get me...

Tim

[Big Phil]

Must be a pretty naughty twitch if you need to visit Tooled Up dotcom before you go. I blame the police for stopping the hoolies going to Germany.

It's only a game, guys.

I recommend using the following website's products for illuminating owls.

http://www.sailgb.com/c/distress_flares_pyrotechnics (http://www.sailgb.com/c/distress_flares_pyrotechnics/)

[Mike Johnston]

It's a blinking bird (what else can it do to reflect the harmful rays of those evil torches) ppl, stop trying to guess that's somethings wrong with it- we'll soon know if there is, cos it will bugger off!


I'd say it soon will; get there while you still can... :t:

I guess it's just one of those, 'You could have...', 'But I didn't...', 'But you could have...', 'But I didn't...' situations. ;)

[Andrew]

Cleared the fence in one swoop meself!

Yes, I do like to boast. ;)

Well it was a Scop's you understand? Brings out the best.......

[wally170]

It's a blinking bird (what else can it do to reflect the harmful rays of those evil torches) ppl, stop trying to guess that's somethings wrong with it- we'll soon know if there is, cos it will bugger off!


I have no oppinion on this, other than people should eat more carrots to help them see in the dark** :-)
But i think the point certain people are trying to make is that you don't know what the result will be. You think if the bird doesn't like it it will leave, maybe, but on the other hand, the bird may not mind being blinded, but it could have an affect on the bird which nobody is considering, which may result in something happening to the bird which would not have happened had it not been lamped.

Whos right? who knows. I will never be able to get you to stop doing something you strongly belive in, so why should i try? Well, to make you think about what you are doing.

**No scientific evidence exists to prove this theory. Do not blame me if you cannot see in the dark after eating carrots. Do not eat lots of carrots, you may turn orange.

[devon.birder]

Had to smile to myself when I was told about one Birder who put his bag down somewhere on Thursday evening when there were plenty of torches around only to find that around midnight when most of the crowd had left that it was too dark for him to find it. Last seen he was frantically trying to find someone with a torch. Roger

[London Birder]

Cleared the fence in one swoop meself!

Yes, I do like to boast. ;)

Well it was a Scop's you understand? Brings out the best.......


any chance of you getting into the England squad any time soon Andrew?

[teamsaint]

Reported again by BirdGuides at 18:32. I may go and if I did it would be my first proper twitch. Also it would take my year list to 150, not a bad one to get to that point on.

[London Birder]

go for it teamsaint my friend, 'cause even if it's shit you'll love it in the end ..

[Big Phil]

I don't know of any problems with the Strathbeg bird.

Of course not. |;|

[jdj]

Of course not. |;|

These things are already lost to the gene pool, so there's no lasting harm to the species if a few flares go off a bit too close to home.

[Big Phil]

These things are already lost to the gene pool, so there's no lasting harm to the species if a few flares go off a bit too close to home.

So you are saying that the pyrotechnic destruction of vagrant birds is acceptable since there is next to no chance of them returning to their home range to breed?.

[jdj]

So you are saying that the pyrotechnic destruction of vagrant birds is acceptable since there is next to no chance of them returning to their home range to breed?.

Evolution can be a harsh process.

[dan pointon]

Went back for another look at this bird last night, and it has to be said that behaviour on site was absolutely fine, with nothing at all amiss going on, (a couple of people had got large lamps, and these were the people lamping it in the tree), it was all very controlled. The bird showed extremely well, at one point I and another birder managed to get it in our scopes, and everyone enjoyed cracking views. Indeed true to form it did show better later on, towards midnight, but then unfortunately the birder with the lamp left so it was no longer visible!! Definitely worth a trip now the crowd's died down, although don't know what the weekend attractions going to be like....

Good to meet David and Mark on site too, hope you got decent views in the end Dave!

[Reader]

Hopefully it will show ok tonight as i will be going for it. I will probably get there for about 8pm so if there are any BFers going as well just look out for a dodgy old geezer wearing a cream coloured BF cap.

John

[Steven Astley]

can infra filters not be used to illuminate the bird. i have always thought it was how you watch animals at night.

With this new term to me it's now possible a bird has to suffer being lumped then split hence it can be ticked but only after it's been lamped. very nice.

[Reader]

can infra filters not be used to illuminate the bird. i have always thought it was how you watch animals at night.

With this new term to me it's now possible a bird has to suffer being lumped then split hence it can be ticked but only after it's been lamped. very nice.

I haven't been there yet so don't know what these lamps are like but if you have seen these birds abroad you may know that they can live in the busiest of places.

I was in Corfu one year and was staying at Kavos, which is a mecca for the young. Booze, nightlife, you name it, everything happens there. It is one heck of a noisy place. Right in the middle of this lot was a Scops Owl, illuminated by all the flashing lights, streetlights, you name it. Totally unconcerned. I don't think lamping, if done correctly, will have much effect but I stand corrected if I am wrong.

John

[MikeCross]

unfortunately the birder with the lamp left so it was no !


The birder with the lamp? Isn't that Fluorescent Nightingale?

[Kite]

Indeed true to form it did show better later on, towards midnight, but then unfortunately the birder with the lamp left so it was no longer visible!!

How do you know if it was showing better later on if it was no longer visible ;)

[Reader]

The birder with the lamp? Isn't that Fluorescent Nightingale?


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[dbradnum]

Good to meet David and Mark on site too, hope you got decent views in the end Dave!
I assume you mean me?! Yeah, got superb views in the end - both in flight quite early on (about 10pm), straight over the heads of the crowd, and then perched at about midnight. I think one guy with a good lamp, the ability to swiftly locate the bird, and the inclination to let others use his scope deserves many thanks!

[Tim Allwood]

anyone who wants to know about effects of 'lamping' might try:

a) a three cell maglight into your eye - used to use these a lot when i was lamping

b) a million candle power lamp into your eye...

after b) write your answers on here in a few days when you can see properly... ha ha ha. Is there a nice pub in the village? Surely must be some fun to be had during the evenings owling...?

good to hear some one is doing the lamping, hopefully not too extensively, and letting others view it. Had visons of 100 searchlights over Berlin, after the bombers...

Tim

[Stephen Menzie]

How do you know if it was showing better later on if it was no longer visible ;)

The kid next to us told us. He was wearing night vision goggles.

Top twitch (even if I did lie down on the grass and fall asleep at one point); and the bird was pretty decent as birds go as well :t:

Menzie

[headington7]

Pleased everyone is happy,only heard word of mouth on Friday evening,drive past on main road regulary.The Boat pub is OK,as is The Jolly Boatman on the main-road.Could drop nin-birders off (in daytime/evening in Oxford...be careful after midnight !) or indaytime Blenheim Palace !
Mervyn. :bounce:

[Gary Jenkins]

I managed to see the bird today at 00.50 am after a 6 hour 50 minute wait,and that was thanks to the select few who shone the lamps for all who stayed to see.(Thank goodness for decent people who weren't just in it for themselves).The bird called all the time that I was there,though not as often earlier on.
Disappointing aspect about the whole episode was that there was no field craft in searching for old hooty,and a large majority of the crowd ran around shouting like a herd of bloody elephants.And why do people on twitches consistantly turn up and stand right in front of scopes,cameras etc (Because they need to see the bird at all costs,and bollox to how long you've been standing there)!
It was nice to meet many decent people there last night,for what is a new bird on my British list,but I do think some folk should have a bit of a word with themselves.

[wolfbirder]

I managed to see it too later on. It was initially by the railway, but views of it perched were nigh on impossible altho a few claimed it was just visible. At least 200 folk gathered on the field behind and each time it called people ran on mass towards it. it was incredibly hard to see at all. i just had a glimpse in flight. Eventually just after 11pm i moved back round to the trees just before the canal bridge. Periodically it returned here and yes the spotlights enabled me to obtain views vertically above me. Thanks to them because they were not doing for themselves (whether it was morally right or not).
A tick - yes. Good birding - no. Enjoy it? yes and no. Strange experience, lovely hamlet, generally nice people but plenty of nervous jostling.
What a lottery, a farce, whatever you want to call it. Bird seemed happy enough giving us all the runaround, but what do i know!

[paulsullivan]

Took my mum along with me last night. Well she went to the toilet and of course on the way back when only two or three people were at the area where it was perched there was an exclamation of "there it is" and my mum saw it-she's lucky like that. In the minute it took for her to find me the three had turned into thirty, but we felt confident of views, after all it was still light and the bird was calling right in front of us-surely someone would see it. Then it became all about the yellow leaf. The couple of people who could see the bird were giving directions to this seemingly conspicuous yellow leaf, which was near the bird. I couldn't see it. For the next hour there were instructions such as-follow the tree with the V then across where the thin branch is and back, and many similar with increasingly plaintiff calls from the back"i can't see the yelow leaf-anyone on it?(this was too much for some-i,m sure one chap nealy choked with laughter , the absurdity of the situation finally proving too much for him) " Eventually one chap did give instructions to all that i could follow-"yep" to myself-"up light branch-got that", across thin horizontal branch-"yes still following". Then he said "and that's where the yellow leaf is-but the birds moved" Well, this caused an explosion of laughter and exasperation amongst the gathering. After a while nearly everyone moved elsewhere and i did get to see a bit of the owl deep in the bush, and then in flight, so went home happy, but wishing i could have seen it whilst it was still light-the owl that is , not that damn yellow leaf

[The Barn Owl]

Hopefully it will show ok tonight as i will be going for it. I will probably get there for about 8pm so if there are any BFers going as well just look out for a dodgy old geezer wearing a cream coloured BF cap.

John

Yep, I found the dodgy old geezer all right ;)

I was there until 10:30pm last night, Mum wouldn't let me stay any longer, as she then had to drive an hour home. Consequently, I didn't see it, although some of the assembled 300 or so did get brief flight views while I was there - quite a sight to see hundreds of grown men laden with bins, 'scopes, tripods, cameras etc go hurtling across a field when someone (I think Lee Evans?) found it perched in a fairly open tree, and then it flew back again when everyone was staring into a tree...

Hope you got good views in the end John, but at least I can say I saw a Hummingbird Hawk-Moth in my Grampa's garden!

Sam

[Reader]

Well I'm back, tired and exhausted. I arrived at 8pm just outside Thrupp to a long line of cars parked on the edge of the A4260. Thankfully close to the road to Thrupp there was one space that I think all other car drivers hadn't thought of. It was near a gate and the grass was very very high but I slowly edged my car onto the grass, mindfull that I couldn't see if it dropped into a ditch, but after a couple of minutes I was safely parked and ready to go. It was about a 10 to 15 minute walk to the Scops Owl site and as soon as I got there I could hear the Scops single note call. In fact a few times in the first hour and a half I was probably standing within 20' of the bird but apart from a quick flight, in deep foliage, (which could have just have easily been a Thrush) nothing was seen of the bird.

By 9:40 pm the crowd was beginning to swell so I took a photo of it (below). You can at least double this number as there were large amounts the other side of the trees and similar numbers the other side of the canal. As the night wore on even more arrived.

The one thing I have to say about this twitch was that it was like no other twitch I have been on. There were whole families in the field with their kids and more woman than I have ever seen on any twitch, most of them none, or novice birders.

At 9:45pm the bird flew unseen and started calling at the far side of the small wood next to the field we were standing in. Most people moved to one side of the tree but I got there about 30 seconds later just as the bird flew out towards the canal. I managed a brief two second look at the bird.

As the night wore on the Scops moved around the area frequently and as it got darker so a couple of lamps were switched on when it landed in any nearby trees. We waited in our field for another hour but the bird seemed to favour the trees furthest away from us and also those the other side of the canal so most of us moved to by the canal bridge. On the way we were treated to a pair of Glow worms which caught the attention of a few of us.

Four times the bird landed in the trees above our heads, near the canal bridge, and each time the trees were illuminated by two torches. If any more were lit up they were told to shut them down as the beams were to be controlled. Four times the bird was located but each time only a few birders managed to see it (I wasn't one of them). Each time the bird flew to groans from birders that hadn't seen it. After each sighting the birders that had seen it started the journeys back home, so reducing the numbers there.

At 12:35am the bird flew back into a nearby tree and straight away I was first under it, followed by Lee Evans (who was controlling the lamping) and another lamper, then the rest of the birders.

Two sides of the tree were illuminated and 5 minutes later one birder caught sight of it then I did. It was calling and each time it called it dipped its tail so at least there was movement to look for. I managed to get Lee onto it and then the second lamp was switched off.

This was a very hard bird to see as it blended so well into its surroundings but if you managed to see the movement then you had prolonged views of it but sadly a fair proportion of birders were possibly slightly at a wrong angle and failed to see the bird.

I had an eight minute look at the bird before it flew of to yet again more groans by those that still hadn't locked onto it.

I left just before 1am but there must have still been at least a couple of hundred people there that still hadn't seen it.

I don't normally give Lee Evans much credit but on this occasion I will as he controlled the lamping to perfection. He was telling me that he had been there every night so if that was the case I would have thought the lamping would have been equally controlled on each night.

In the end it was an enjoyable twitch amongst birders that were respecting both the habitat and the bird. I can't speak for other nights (apart from reports from friends that had been on previous nights) but this night was certainly succesfully controlled.

John

[Collster]

What a carry on , unbelievable!

[Paul Hackett]

I too took a trip to Thrupp last night after literally getting off a plane from a 2 flight trip from Lithuania late afternoon after parting company with our Mr Stratford 5 hours previously

I didnt see Reeder or Gary Jenkins although they must have been close to me in that field, it was a relaxed atmosphere as somebody pointed out, the great majority of people were well behaved and quiet, save for some bizarre mobile phone rings we were all subject to! i had a number of flight views but all silhouette, if you were patient and in the right place at the right time, you did get glimpses. I waited till about 1.00am - 1.30am? ( i didnt have a watch on) before i saw the bird, i managed to locate it with my torch under the tree next to the canal, and most people who were literally gathered around me saw the bird in full view for a short period looking down towards us, then it swooped down within the canopy wings outstretched catching a moth on the way down and veered left out of sight, people around me said that those were the best unobscured views of the bird they had seen all night

Made my way back to the car, pulled over at the services on the M40 for a quick snooze and eventually back home for 5.30am with an bright red sunrise for company trying to break through the dark clouds, job done, but had to work for it!

[Richard Wall]

[QUOTE=

I don't normally give Lee Evans much credit but on this occasion I will as he controlled the lamping to perfection. He was telling me that he had been there every night so if that was the case I would have thought the lamping would have been equally controlled on each night.)


Hi all
Thoroughly enjoyed saturday nights Scops twitch.Following the bird by call as it moved around the area like a stealth fighter was very entertaining.A decent gathering was pretty much good natured with the exception of some minor disagreements during one of the birds visits to the tree with the light underneath.Not sure why.!?! I was patiently waiting in the field rather than try to cram under one spot with the masses.
Ultimately....that was the tree that finally gave us few hardy souls the best and most wonderful views at 1.15am.It was in full view,face on and then flew forward and left to catch a unfortunate moth......awesome and well worth the vigil.
I was stood next to L.G.R.E at this point as he picked the bird out instantly in the spotlight.At all times during the twitch he tried to organise the most effective way to light up the scene without spooking the bird.I believe that he very much had the birds interest in mind as well as hopefully providing views for all.
Thanks to Lee for taking the lead. :clap:
A reminder to all that a bird can be twitched successfully with a little common sense and organisation.

[Collster]

How can he have the interests of the bird in mind whilst shining a light at it?Do Scops Owl hunt using torches?

[Reader]

I too took a trip to Thrupp last night after literally getting off a plane from a 2 flight trip from Lithuania late afternoon after parting company with our Mr Stratford 5 hours previously

I didnt see Reeder or Gary Jenkins although they must have been close to me in that field,

Hi Paul

How on earth did I miss you. I was there from 8:15pm to 12:50am so we must have almost rubbed shoulders at times.


it was a relaxed atmosphere as somebody pointed out, the great majority of people were well behaved and quiet,


It was a good atmosphere wasn't it. Almost like a family occasion with a lot of birders in attendance.


save for some bizarre mobile phone rings we were all subject to!


There were some bizzare one's weren't there but there were two very apt ones that shone through. One was the theme tune for the "A" Team and some wag shouted out, "send in Mr T, he get the damn bird out" then there was the Mission Impossible theme, which at the time it rang was very apt.


i had a number of flight views but all
silhouette,


You were lucky. I managed a quick flight shot at 9:50pm but most people didn't see anything.


if you were patient and in the right place at the right time, you did get glimpses.


And that was the trick, being in the right place at the right time. For most people that didn't happen.


I waited till about 1.00am - 1.30am? ( i didnt have a watch on) before i saw the bird, i managed to locate it with my torch under the tree next to the canal, and most people who were literally gathered around me saw the bird in full view for a short period looking down towards us, then it swooped down within the canopy wings outstretched catching a moth on the way down and veered left out of sight, people around me said that those were the best unobscured views of the bird they had seen all night


I must admit that the sighting I had in the end was a satisfactory one but it does sound like yours was possibly one of the best of the week.


Made my way back to the car, pulled over at the services on the M40 for a quick snooze and eventually back home for 5.30am with an bright red sunrise for company trying to break through the dark clouds, job done, but had to work for it!


Glad you had a safe journey back home and I hope you had a good un with our Jos

John

[Reader]

How can he have the interests of the bird in mind whilst shining a light at it?Do Scops Owl hunt using torches?

First have all have you ever seen a Scops Owl and if you have where was it. I bet it was possibly in one of the busiest towns you can think of full of nighlife, flashing lights, the works. I know I have.

I will pose this question again, as it seems that members like Valley Boy never answer it. If the bird is distressed, as you say it must be, surely it would have been long gone from that site by now.

I also ask was you there? If not don't make far reaching judgements on a situation you neither understand or witness.

John

[MikeCross]

[QUOTE=Reader] followed by Lee Evans (who was controlling the lamping)

John[/QUOTE


Is controlling the lamping the same as ensuring that you are in the best position to get the best views every time the bird is found?

[Richard Wall]

How can he have the interests of the bird in mind whilst shining a light at it?Do Scops Owl hunt using torches?

It's no coincidence i'm sure that the owl preferred the tree with a VERY bright light next to it.The light attracted more moths and the owl was more than happy to take advantage.
As regards the twitch............how did you find the whole experience?????????

[Reader]

[QUOTE=Reader] followed by Lee Evans (who was controlling the lamping)

John[/QUOTE


Is controlling the lamping the same as ensuring that you are in the best position to get the best views every time the bird is found?

Controlling the lamping meant that there were never more than two lamps going at the same time in different areas of the tree. Once found the second lamp was switched off and the remaining one kept steady in the area the bird was in. It had nothing to do with ensuring you were in best place as if that were the case what you would in fact be saying was that the light was actually attracting the Owl to it.

The other element of control, that hasn't been mentioned, was that the crowd were also controlled noise wise also, allthough these birds abroad I have found in the busiest of places. Having said that everything was being done correctly in my opinion.

I suppose if we were to be absolutely correct then we should have all ignored the fact that the Scops was there and not gone for it. Is that what people are thinking, because it was virtually pointles in the day as it only came out once it got dark.

John

[dan pointon]

How can he have the interests of the bird in mind whilst shining a light at it?Do Scops Owl hunt using torches?

Scops Owls do actually prefer hunting in the vacinity of light, as it attracts moths and insects.

[Tim Allwood]

does someone really have to point out the difference between hunting in lights and having a million candle power lamp scorching your retina?

and as i mentioined above the bird may not move even if 'disturbed' by the lamping

having said that, i'm not criticising anyone for going or shining lamps at it. Seems like it's well organised now anyway...

i think the crowds do show just how many birders are actually twitchers these days... seems that everyone starting out does it now. There's been a fair few twitchable ones in recent years after all. Just another observation

Tim

[Gavin Haig]

i think the crowds do show just how many birders are actually twitchers these days... seems that everyone starting out does it now.....
You make it sound like a new phenomenon, Tim. When I 'started out' a major objective, along with like-minded buddies, was to get on the grapevine and see new birds, locally and nationally. Strikes me the fundamentals haven't changed really..........

Some of us don't do it any more, some do, some never have, some will start soon (Scops the first twitch for several, I bet?). All the best to you all - enjoy the craziness if you can!

A few of us seem to feel the urge to pontificate from some so-called moral high ground (not you, Tim) every time a bit of iffy behaviour is reported from a twitch. Makes for amusing reading, but pleeeease!!! No one's paying any attention, and it won't make a blind bit of difference anyway - just comes accross as pompous and self-righteous.....

Feel free to bite me - but only if you've never run for a bird.

[dan pointon]

does someone really have to point out the difference between hunting in lights and having a million candle power lamp scorching your retina?



Nope, i'm merely pointing out the light may have some advantage to the owl apart from 'scorching' its eyes. Good point Gavin - it does get a bit boring!!

[josh jones]

well put, Gavin.

[Highway Man]

There's been a fair few twitchable ones in recent years after all. Just another observation

Tim

Not really Tim. Only the two Cornish birds come to mind (with the exception of any on Shetland) The first was 11 years ago and looked very ill and the second was only for a day and a half in the middle of the week.

Mark

[cheshirebirder]

How can he have the interests of the bird in mind whilst shining a light at it?Do Scops Owl hunt using torches?

For goodness sake , give credit where it's due. Surely it's better if someone organises the event rather than having a free-for-all ? I haven't been to see this bird but organised twitches are always better for both bird and twitchers.

[wolfbirder]

Dont know if it harms thebird in anyway, but in my opinion the person controlling the light denies themselves the opportunity to also use optics so perhaps in some ways they are not acting in self interest all the time - seemed that way to me.

[Tim Allwood]

no one's taping their maglites to their bins then?

Tim

[The Barn Owl]

Well said PB!!!

Out of interest, did anyone see a ginger-haired 13-ish-year old kid on Saturday evening?

Were you one of the lucky few I spoke to ;)

Sam

[Collster]

enjoy the twitch thats fine doesn't mean that the bird is better off for all the attention. For the record i ain't ever run for a bird

[Richard Wall]

enjoy the twitch thats fine doesn't mean that the bird is better off for all the attention. For the record i ain't ever run for a bird

But have you ever run for a bloke.????? 3:-)

[Harry Hussey]

Recent threads on BF:
Someone finds a rare bird, usually one that hasn't ever occurred in my poor little country, or has seldom/ never been twitchable, but almost always one that the 'big boys' saw back in the 80s the day after a Yellow-billed Cuckoo, which seemed to be as common in Britain then as Yellow-browed Warblers are now.
Said bird is visited by an assortment of kid listers, tarts, muppets, dudes etc, a minority of whom act with any decorum, the rest running wild in scenes reminiscent of the fall of Rome. Some old hands and sensible newcomers give useful advice on better fieldcraft, but some others who have done the same thing years ago jump on their soapbox and decry modern twitcherdom en masse. All the while, Joe Public is either amused, bemused, angry or outright hostile after the hordes descending on their local town for local people, and, depending on their degree of outrage, may very well be writing to some right-wing newspaper demanding that the birch, or even public hanging, be brought back to deal with such miscreants.
Meanwhile, those of us living in the small island to the west of you (you know, the one that you visit on the seldom occasion that there is something good here that you need for your 'British' lists, or where you all year-tick Fea's Petrel (ALL British birders have seen Fea's in Ireland, and those who claim to still 'need' it are lying: I'm sure that some British NON-birders have seen multiple Fea's from 'da Bridgez'?) ) go on with our boring little lives, and bemoan the fact that there has never been a truly twitchable Scops Owl/ Cream-coloured Courser/ Aylesbury Duck....
Slán libh anois,
Harry

[London Birder]

blimey girls this thread's gone a bit tits-up ain't it!

[Collster]

blimey girls this thread's gone a bit tits-up ain't it!
Yeah! my line snapped ages ago 3:-)

[scary-canary]

no one's taping their maglites to their bins then?

Tim
Great idea. Bet they'd sell.

[London Birder]

cyanus ...

4 seen in the Thrupp area by a bloke called Charlie Saddlebags-Hallogen ...

[Jos Stratford]

This ain't a 'trooping out of the same old anti-twitcher stuff' - I am a twitcher (when in the UK), but the stuff being churned out by the owl watchers on this thread is a joke - almost seems that they need to trot out total garbage to convince themselves that this owl might even be enjoying the whole circus following. The comments that this species favours areas with bright lights in the Med, etc, is pie-in-the-sky if this is being used as justification for spotlighting it throughout the night. I too would be able to see okay should I choose to prance down the high street in Marbella, but shove a 2 million candlepower spotlight in my face and it sure gets a bit harder! And as for our LRGE performing 'controlled' spotlighting, well fantastic, but what exactly is so fantastic about controlling a near constant spotlighting of the bird for hours on end ...until at least 2.00 a.m. (or longer?)? Better control would be (if you absolutely have to spotlight) limiting the duration of spotlighting, not the number being used at any one time. Won't bother with the comments that it must be okay because it would crash into a tree otherwise, that it continues to call, etc ...'cos they just seem farcical, so I'll assume they were in jest.

Na folks, admit it, the welfare of this birds meant sod all to virtually anyone from day one. But conscience dictates that it must be argued so. Recommendations and requests were ignored and instead it was 'well there was no other way to see it'.

Perhaps a few should take a read of post 105 again, then like to argue why they believe they know better (on the basis of one twitch) than persons who have studied this - so, our new found owl experts, are the professers in post 105 wrong or is the Oxfordshire Scops simply a super owl (in more ways than one)?

Application for SWIFT this way, ta

[London Birder]

well, if people were happy to tick on call in the first place it would've negated the need to lamp the poor little blighter, but nooooo ... sadly Jos, people like VB and yourself may be considered to be a bit cranky but I applaud you both ...

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Well said Jos.
What a load of wallies.
Makes me proud to have been a founder member of SWIFT.

[Reader]

well, if people were happy to tick on call in the first place it would've negated the need to lamp the poor little blighter, but nooooo ... sadly Jos, people like VB and yourself may be considered to be a bit cranky but I applaud you both ...

Well I'm not sure I applaud both.

These members that slate what has gone on were not on site to witness what was going on. Their opinions are based on images in their own minds of what they think went on.

The scenario is:

There is a very rare bird that has landed in an area that is easily accessible to the public. It will attract many hundreds (if not thousands) of birders once the news has been released. The only problem is it can only be seen in darkness.

Now then Jos & VB,and anyone else that is slagging off the birding fraternity that has been (and is intending to go), you tell us with your words of wisdom, how would you deal with this. Please give us the benefit on how this twitch should be handled. Should the news have been completely supressed or if not how do you propose to get all those birders in a position to see this bird.

Oh BTW Jos. I see our friend Paul Hackett was one of the many throng that went down the route of watching the bird whilst it was being lamped. I hope you are going to slag him of vehemently when he next visits you, but I bet you won't.

John

[London Birder]

not a case of slagging off the birding 'fraternity' (what an awful expression), we're all part of it! ... what about those who were on site and report some rather less than sensible scenes?

Jos's and VB's concerns are for the bird, what the hell is wrong with that?

after all, post 105 is food for thought, no?

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Should the news have been completely supressed
John
Yes of course it should because the welfare of the bird should be paramount. But too many twitchers clearly couldn't give a toss about that.

[Collster]

Nice one Jos, nice to see that there are others who refuse to be railroaded by the majority who seem to think that what they are doing has some benefit to the owl.

[London Birder]

Should the news have been completely supressed or if not how do you propose to get all those birders in a position to see this bird.
John

no need to suppress anything ..

explain why it is that a group of grown up men (and women) can't reach a consensus that say's 'no one NEEDS to see it, it's tickable on call' (serious question), after all at least one high profile lamper regularly does so with Corncrake ... or to put it another way, if it was only seen and photographed initially by one or two birders and subsequent visiting birders, twitchers (whatever) could only get it on call, would those hundreds (or thousands) seriously not add it to their personal lists even given the fact they've had a perfectly good encounter with Scop's Owl in the UK?

nothing to do with being 'anti-twitching (fraternity)', we all do that one way or the other at some pont ...

edit: is it going to be lamped every night of it's residency? or just until everyone who wants to clap eyes on it has done so?

[Jane Turner]

enjoy the twitch thats fine doesn't mean that the bird is better off for all the attention. For the record i ain't ever run for a bird

I thought I would never run for a bird either... but when grilling an Olive-backd Pipit, a shout about 40 feet away of Eye-browed Thrush prompted a short sprint out of me.

[Collster]

Well I'm not sure I applaud both.

These members that slate what has gone on were not on site to witness what was going on. Their opinions are based on images in their own minds of what they think went on.

The scenario is:

There is a very rare bird that has landed in an area that is easily accessible to the public. It will attract many hundreds (if not thousands) of birders once the news has been released. The only problem is it can only be seen in darkness.

Now then Jos & VB,and anyone else that is slagging off the birding fraternity that has been (and is intending to go), you tell us with your words of wisdom, how would you deal with this. Please give us the benefit on how this twitch should be handled. Should the news have been completely supressed or if not how do you propose to get all those birders in a position to see this bird.

Oh BTW Jos. I see our friend Paul Hackett was one of the many throng that went down the route of watching the bird whilst it was being lamped. I hope you are going to slag him of vehemently when he next visits you, but I bet you won't.

John The way i would deal with it is by leaving it alone. I get to see a lot of birds throughout the season, some of these would attract a crowd, but apart from the relevant authorities or agencys i dont tell anyone. Thats because im into birds and realise their interests are not best served by the arrival of hundreds of birders( wont say twitchers as you dont seem keen on that word).No body has a devine right to see any bird, we dont sodding own them and they owe us nothing. As has been said the welfare of the bird should always come first. If you and others want to convince yourselves that lamping it is fine carry on , but you wont convince me. By the way i haven't been there and wont be but i think i can picture the scene

[Collster]

no need to suppress anything ..

explain why it is that a group of grown up men (and women) can't reach a consensus that say's 'no one NEEDS to see it, it's tickable on call' (serious question), after all at least one high profile lamper regularly does so with Corncrake ... or to put it another way, if it was only seen and photographed initially by one or two birders and subsequent visiting birders, twitchers (whatever) could only get it on call, would those hundreds (or thousands) seriously not add it to their personal lists even given the fact they've had a perfectly good encounter with Scop's Owl in the UK?

nothing to do with being 'anti-twitching (fraternity)', we all do that one way or the other at some pont ...

edit: is it going to be lamped every night of it's residency? or just until everyone who wants to clap eyes on it has done so?
Why not have done with it, net it , take it to the local football ground, put on all the floodlights. Charge everyone a fiver and give the money to people doing research on the affects of shining a bright light into an owls eyes

[cheshirebirder]

Why not have done with it, net it , take it to the local football ground, put on all the floodlights. Charge everyone a fiver and give the money to people doing research on the affects of shining a bright light into an owls eyes

'cos the local footie ground is Oxford and they're shite - bit like the welsh team, Valley Boy. (can you tell that you're getting on everyone's tits yet ? )

[Collster]

'cos the local footie ground is Oxford and they're shite - bit like the welsh team, Valley Boy. (can you tell that you're getting on everyone's tits yet ? )
Do you think i give a monkeys if im getting on your tits, as for shite teams you got one of your own by the looks of it

[Big Phil]

To be fair - dazzling a vagrant bird a bit is probably fairly low in the list of crimes against wildlife. I would have more issues with people doing such things to birds in their breeding ranges.

[London Birder]

that would probably be the most exciting UK related thing that happens at a footy ground over the coming weeks ..

tonight Matthew, I'm gonna be a Scop's Owl ..

[Collster]

To be fair - dazzling a vagrant bird a bit is probably fairly low in the list of crimes against wildlife. I would have more issues with people doing such things to birds in their breeding ranges.
Listen if thats what people are doing and are happy with it fine, but if you read some of the previous posts they seem to imply that the owl is actually been done a favour.This is obviously rubbish

[London Birder]

Cheshire mate, VB's views echo other peoples regardless of who's tits he may be irritating, no need for handbags ..

[cheshirebirder]

Cheshire mate, VB's views echo other peoples regardless of who's tits he may be irritating, no need for handbags ..

My point is that there is no point to his ramblings anymore. He's stated his point of view ad nauseum.

[Darren Pearce]

Is anybody going tonight ? I missed it last Thursday and have been unable to get back but plan to go tonight.

[Collster]

My point is that there is no point to his ramblings anymore. He's stated his point of view ad nauseum.
Ramblings, you 're not exactly taxing my brain with your posts

[London Birder]

yeah but they ain't ramblings ... why so dismissive? ... he's not slagging you off nor anyone else personally, merely voicing concerns for the birds welfare! but maybe you're suggesting the thread comes to a conclusion?

anyone know if and when the organised lamping will cease?

[Isurus]

but when grilling an Olive-backd Pipit,.

well that sounds much worse than lamping an owl - did you use a marinade or seasoning of any kind?

[cheshirebirder]

yeah but they ain't ramblings ... why so dismissive? ... he's not slagging you off nor anyone else personally, merely voicing concerns for the birds welfare! but maybe you're suggesting the thread comes to a conclusion?

anyone know if and when the organised lamping will cease?

A sensible post ! I certainly wasn't taking the comments personally as I haven't been for the bird. Of course, I also acknowledge V, B.'s right to comment. It's just when the whole thing gets endlessly repetitive.
Your question about when the organised lamping will end is a good one.

[deboo]

i went to see/hear this wol on friday....
am i sorry that i did?
nope
did i witness any inappropriate behaviour?
nope
did i speak to the locals?
yup
will i ever twitch again?
yup
do i care what anyone else thinks about the rights and wrongs of seeing this bird?
nope

but.........i do like the new colour scheme here :)

dave...

[Jos Stratford]

These members that slate what has gone on were not on site to witness what was going on. Their opinions are based on images in their own minds of what they think went on.


Erm, no. Based on what was written by those who were there - don't need to be there to read that this bird is being spotlighted for hours each night and to have an opinion on it. Have I misunderstood, has this bird not been targeted by multiple spotlights for many hours each evening? BTW similar has been said by some attending (see beginning of thread).


Now then Jos & VB,and anyone else that is slagging off the birding fraternity that has been (and is intending to go), you tell us with your words of wisdom, how would you deal with this.


About sums up the twitchers attitude to this particular bird ...'well, there was no other way, no sorry we're going to do what it takes to see the bird'

How would I go about it? I don't argue about spotlighting per se, but about the duration of hours and hours over repeated nights on a single bird ...anybody who thinks that is putting the bird's welfare first is simply fooling themselves. As I said in earlier post, if it is deemed absolutley necessary to spotlight, limit it in duration to a short spell per night - if people don't get to see it, tuff luck.


Oh BTW Jos. I see our friend Paul Hackett was one of the many throng that went down the route of watching the bird whilst it was being lamped. I hope you are going to slag him of vehemently when he next visits you, but I bet you won't.


Nice of you to drag someone else's name into this - for what purpose? No, I will not be 'slagging him off', nor do I think I am being anti-twitcher. My criticism is of the mass illusion that people have created for themselves that this bird could not possibly be adversely affected.


No comment regarding post 105?

[Big Phil]

I'm just amazed anyone can get worked up about this - do we see so many posts devoted to our nesting Dotterels, Black Grouse, Corncrakes etc all of which get unmercifully booted around day after day by birders at certain sites?. No!.

[Tim Allwood]

I'm not getting involved in the virtues etc of seeing these birds and worse things happen at sea etc but the obvious denial of facts by the people who 'needed' to see it, of the effects of lamping (most of whom have probably never really done it) is odd. Just read the paper qouted in above post (the one Jos referred too). I have done it overseas but admit it and don't deny well known facts to make myself feel better. I'm guilty, so are you. Deal with it.

Glad to see common sense prevailed with the organisation and lamping. Mr Evans is able to control these things quite well, thank goodness. Well done to him. Standing with 300 (insert your own descriptive phrase) in a field would do my head in for one night, never mind five.

[Jos Stratford]

I'm just amazed anyone can get worked up about this - do we see so many posts devoted to our nesting Dotterels, Black Grouse, Corncrakes etc all of which get unmercifully booted around day after day by birders at certain sites?. No!.


There should be ...let's start threads on them too :) And another slagging off the Japanese for blackmailing/bribing/persuading LDCs this weekend into supporting their warped vision of the future of whaling.

[Big Phil]

the Japanese for blackmailing/bribing/persuading LDCs this weekend into supporting their warped vision of the future of whaling.

The bastards. Was listening to a piece on the wireless this weekend about how long it takes a whale to die at the hands of a Japanese Whaler.....not nice.

[London Birder]

posts devoted to Dotterels, Black Grouse, Corncrake? oh come on Phil, of course there's been many conservation threads and if there isn't who's fault is that, ours .... and it's us who start threads about the glories of twitching, naturally ... not sure 'worked up' is the right phrase, welfare was always going to rear it's head with this bird when lamping came into it ... personally, I've no idea what effect this is having on the bird, and even if I'd been along for it I doubt I'd be much the wiser (though it would be a Brit tick up for what that's worth), maybe all is well and good, maybe not but the professor of avian sensory whatnots comments in post 105 surely can't just be brushed aside, and in any case it's not like everyone's experiences at the bird have been positive judging by what's been said by some (though by others the 'twitch' itself has been reported as fine) ... as much as this thread and it's opposing views may be becoming a bit jaded, surely the nightly lamping of the Scop's is also?

[Collster]

i went to see/hear this wol on friday....
am i sorry that i did?
nope
did i witness any inappropriate behaviour?
nope
did i speak to the locals?
yup
will i ever twitch again?
yup
do i care what anyone else thinks about the rights and wrongs of seeing this bird?
nope

but.........i do like the new colour scheme here :)

dave...
Spoken like a true twitcher

[Big Phil]

posts devoted to Dotterels, Black Grouse, Corncrake? oh come on Phil, of course there's been many conservation threads

I wasn't criticising the lack of conservation threads - this is after all a birders forum. My point is, why are y'all so concerned about the wellfare of a stray bird which could move somewhere else if the disturbance really is so bad, whereas apparently quite happy to harrass nesting birds when on trips away?. I'm sure there are Owls, Nightjars etc in certain birders hotspots abroad that are lamped at their nest sites on a near nightly basis every year.

[London Birder]

stray or not, it deserves a modicum of respect, enough is enough ..

[Andrew]

Everyone lamped it for my benefit last Wednesday. ;)

[Collster]

I wasn't criticising the lack of conservation threads - this is after all a birders forum. My point is, why are y'all so concerned about the wellfare of a stray bird which could move somewhere else if the disturbance really is so bad, whereas apparently quite happy to harrass nesting birds when on trips away?. I'm sure there are Owls, Nightjars etc in certain birders hotspots abroad that are lamped at their nest sites on a near nightly basis every year.
I expect those owls and nightjars are glad of the illuminations too :smoke:

[josh jones]

Standing with 300 (insert your own descriptive phrase) in a field would do my head in for one night, never mind five.

Yes, as you say on every thread involving a rare bird and a big twitch. We get the idea you don't like twitching Tim, I don't see any point in you having to make this known any more.

Before you start thinking it, I have nothing whatsoever against you or your views. But pleeease just give it a rest with your "I hate twitchers, thankfully nowadays I'm not one of you idiots" attitude. I'm bored of reading it every time I click on a thread like this.

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Everyone lamped it for my benefit last Wednesday. ;)
Well that's ok then Andrew......

[Tim Allwood]

ha ha ha now it's well stoked up so.........As some of you can run for an owl, why not come on the OBC sponsored fun run on Sat 1st July on the north norfolk coastal path? We need a few runners still, you can run as little or as much as you want and it ends in the Dun Cow, Salthouse at 4 pm. Can't promise an Otus at the end of your run but there will be beers and food etc...

seriously, pm me if interested... come on folks, put a little back for the birds...

and i'll get you a pint

please allow my little digression mods...

Tim B (:

[Collster]

Yes, as you say on every thread involving a rare bird and a big twitch. We get the idea you don't like twitching Tim, I don't see any point in you having to make this known any more.

Before you start thinking it, I have nothing whatsoever against you or your views. But pleeease just give it a rest with your "I hate twitchers, thankfully nowadays I'm not one of you idiots" attitude. I'm bored of reading it every time I click on a thread like this.
Some of us get bored by the attitude that cause you need to see the bird( whatever it is) that its ok to set up a circus and carry on regardless, nothing personal like!

[josh jones]

Some of us get bored by the attitude that cause you need to see the bird( whatever it is) that its ok to set up a circus and carry on regardless, nothing personal like!

what?! does that make sense?

If it you mean you get bored by the attitude of twitchers making a big fuss out of a twitch, and feeling the need to see a bird, take it up with them. However, there is a slight difference between sitting at a computer slagging off twitchers, and going to see a bird...

If you mean you get bored of everyone in this forum saying "bird X at site Y, today" and then a select few people saying "yes great, saw it, what a bird!", then try another forum, valley boy. Such an attitude by some on here is so negative that all it seems to be about is ruining other people's fun, and declaring them to be idiots because they decided to twitch a bird.

[cheshirebirder]

what?! does that make sense?

If it you mean you get bored by the attitude of twitchers making a big fuss out of a twitch, and feeling the need to see a bird, take it up with them. However, there is a slight difference between sitting at a computer slagging off twitchers, and going to see a bird...

If you mean you get bored of everyone in this forum saying "bird X at site Y, today" and then a select few people saying "yes great, saw it, what a bird!", then try another forum, valley boy. Such an attitude by some on here is so negative that all it seems to be about is ruining other people's fun, and declaring them to be idiots because they decided to twitch a bird.

How about setting up a Moaning B***rds thread ?

[Collster]

what?! does that make sense?

If it you mean you get bored by the attitude of twitchers making a big fuss out of a twitch, and feeling the need to see a bird, take it up with them. However, there is a slight difference between sitting at a computer slagging off twitchers, and going to see a bird...

If you mean you get bored of everyone in this forum saying "bird X at site Y, today" and then a select few people saying "yes great, saw it, what a bird!", then try another forum, valley boy. Such an attitude by some on here is so negative that all it seems to be about is ruining other people's fun, and declaring them to be idiots because they decided to twitch a bird.
Why did you feel the need to moan about what Tim said then, aren't you guilty of spoiling his fun. You're not spoiling my fun though as this is much more entertaining than going out in the rain and mist. What i get bored with is the attitude that the bird is never bothered by all the people attending. I think you should try smurf birds im happy with my choice of forum :t:

[London Birder]

just out of interest, who decreed that lamping was the way to go with this bird, was their some sort of referendum ? ... I ask because it does now and then seem to me that there's a certain arbitration that goes on at certain levels which doesn't involve the opinions or thoughts of perceived lesser birders ... the lamping obviously has it's exponents and it's critics (I broadley fall into the latter for my own, possibly over cautious, reasons), but who is it that decides these things are ok without garnering opinion ?

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Such an attitude by some on here is so negative that all it seems to be about is ruining other people's fun,
Speaking for myself, I have no wish to spoil anyone's "fun", but when that "fun" is enjoyed at the possible expense of a bird's welfare, then I will criticise it. It's selfish.

[Collster]

Speaking for myself, I have no wish to spoil anyone's "fun", but when that "fun" is enjoyed at the possible expense of a bird's welfare, then I will criticise it. It's selfish.
I think that thats where all the people who have expressed a less than enthusiastic opinion are coming from

[josh jones]

Why did you feel the need to moan about what Tim said then, aren't you guilty of spoiling his fun. You're not spoiling my fun though as this is much more entertaining than going out in the rain and mist. What i get bored with is the attitude that the bird is never bothered by all the people attending. I think you should try smurf birds im happy with my choice of forum :t:

I moaned about what Tim said because he always has his little gos at twitchers, and it gets boring.

[Big Phil]

I think that the secondary moaning about people moaning about stuff is even more boring then the original moaning. I will admit, that my tertiary moaning about people moaning about people moaning about stuff is even worse and fully accept the inevitable fourth wave of moaning that this will induce.

[Tim Allwood]

Hey Josh

why not respond to the majority of my post which was about the effects of lamping as explained by the nice professor. I've done it, it's bad but i wanted to see the bird.... howabout you?

don't you just love the man in the street and his 'wisdom'?

he's seen it once so it must be true

Tim

[Bonsaibirder]

I think that the secondary moaning about people moaning about stuff is even more boring then the original moaning. I will admit, that my tertiary moaning about people moaning about people moaning about stuff is even worse and fully accept the inevitable fourth wave of moaning that this will induce.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Osprey_watcher]

So in summary - the bird was flushed by twitching scum lead by arch Twitcher Marek, blinded by a barrage or torches and in the confusion flew into the blades of a wind turbine. I blame the RSPB.

Chris
Love it. :bounce: :bounce:

[Collster]

Isn't it about time that this thread degenerated into a barrage of anti-twitching/torch/tape lure/windfarm posts?!

Seriously - respect the villagers if you decide to go.
You are way ahead of your time :bounce:

[deborah4]

tonight Matthew, I'm gonna be a Scop's Owl ..

... and sing that ole favorite 'Superstition' :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Nick-on]

i went to see/hear this wol on friday....
am i sorry that i did?
nope
did i witness any inappropriate behaviour?
nope
did i speak to the locals?
yup
will i ever twitch again?
yup
do i care what anyone else thinks about the rights and wrongs of seeing this bird?
nope

but.........i do like the new colour scheme here :)

dave...

Well I'm sorry Dave, I just cant agree................don't like the new colour scheme at all, too pastelly for me. As for the rest of it though...spot on my son!
Was there on and off from midday until midnight (did leave for a few hours to stop my 10year old son getting too bored) and had a really nice day: listened to the Scops calling, looked at a few damselflys (is tghat spelt right? or is it damselflies? may never know, sigh) had a bit of lunch and an extremely nice pint of Greene King IPA in the pub, saw a gloworm, bumped into a couple of friends I've not seen for years and eventually saw the Scops in the lamplight by the canal bridge. Didn't get home until nearly 2:00 am and was totally knackered.
Would I do it again after reading all these negative posts.....definitely!!!

As an aside, parked in the village during the day, lots of room, but in the evening parked in Shipton and walked along the canal, less than 10 mins and definitely safer than walking along the road.

Nick

[Nick-on]

Well said PB!!!

Out of interest, did anyone see a ginger-haired 13-ish-year old kid on Saturday evening?

Were you one of the lucky few I spoke to ;)

Sam

Don't know if I was particularly lucky (would have seen 'THE owl' sooner if I was) but fairly sure I spoke to you during your first visit about 1:00pm when you spotted a Red Kite, so a belated Hello.

Nick

[Tim Allwood]

W listened to the Scops calling, looked at a few damselflys (is tghat spelt right? or is it damselflies? may never know, sigh) had a bit of lunch and an extremely nice pint of Greene King IPA in the pub, saw a gloworm, bumped into a couple of friends I've not seen for years and eventually saw the Scops in the lamplight by the canal bridge.

Nick

that's the way to do it

but just the one pint?

shame on you

might be tempted this fri nite for a drunken owling sesh - any interesting butterflies or plants nearby?

Tim :cool:

[Andrew]

There is the rare Black Festoon. Completely black and hard to see in the dark especially after a few ales! ;)

[josh jones]

that's the way to do it

but just the one pint?

shame on you

might be tempted this fri nite for a drunken owling sesh - any interesting butterflies or plants nearby?

Tim :cool:

Don't forget your lamp Tim. If you meant previously have I done lamping, no I haven't. Probably only 'cos I can't afford a lamp......

[Harry Hussey]

I see that my feeble attempt at humour a few pages back (but only posted yesterday!) has been SWIFTly followed by such vitriol and stubbornly repeated views, which makes me think that my musings were either:
a) ignored by those champing at the bit and keen for a debate

b) ignored (perhaps rightly?) as the unfunny self-indulgent ramblings of a madman

c) printed out and will appear in an amended form in some cheeky plagarist comedian's repertoire...it's happened before!

To the 3-4 subscribers who actually enjoyed it: cheers, lads, though what does your enjoyment of weird s**t like that say about your sanity....

Getting serious for a moment: I will start by stressing that, when the mood takes me, I certainly do twitch a fair bit here in Ireland, so I refuse to condemn twitchers per se. Neither will I attack those who, for whatever reason, choose not to twitch, whether they formerly did so or not. Each to their own, within reason.
I do wonder, however, at how feasible it is to maintain order at any decent-sized British twitch these days? After all, the scene over there just seems so overwhelmingly large to a hick like me (who has never seen a pager!), and there can be no question of everybody knowing everybody else. In a smaller scene, like the one here, individuals who misbehave at a twitch are duly noted, and, if a pattern becomes apparent, they may well find themselves being rebuked firmly...how can one keep track of the bad eggs in British twitching, and what threat could be held over them? I mean, there are so many ways of obtaining rare bird news, and the real muppets probably don't care if they are roundly disliked and condemned as a result of their actions?
Of course, it should still be the case that the silent majority within the twitching scene, who act with due discretion most of the time, voice their disapproval of rogue elements on the day (or night) itself, but I know from experience that it is all too easy to fail to do so, whether due to peer pressure or just plain fear of being decked by the muppet....
Oh, and before anyone takes this to heart, it's as tongue-in-cheek as my humourous posting, albeit less amusing. Many a true word is spoken in jest, however....
Regards,
Harry

P.S. Phantom Birder: I had heard about the suppressed Aylesbury Duck in Tipperary alright after the event, still hurts.... ;)

[Larry Wheatland]

that's the way to do it

but just the one pint?

shame on you

might be tempted this fri nite for a drunken owling sesh - any interesting butterflies or plants nearby?

Tim :cool:

You'll be near some Black Hairstreak sites, but might be a week too early. The toughest of the lot I gather..intend to try for this one meself this year. Someone told me that whitecross green wood is a good bet for them. Might need a scope !

[wolfbirder]

The number of people shuffling like a herd of elephants was ludicrous because it inevitably shifted the bird on. Perversely I found myself doing the same as I got caught up in the adrenalin rush of it all.

But the lamping is the serious issue for me - I genuinely have no idea if it affects the bird, I should imagine so after a while. But at the same time it was not continuous - I was there 2-3 hours and the bird only came to the particular tree where it could be lamped about 6 times , i would guess a minute per time before it flew off. Hardly scientific I know but it was not continuously lamped & did not appear to change its behaviour due to the crowds or the lamping.

Nevertheless it was not what I would call enjoyable birding, the place was gorgeous though.

[Cuckoo-shrike]

To the 3-4 subscribers who actually enjoyed it:
Make that 4-5 Harry!

[London Birder]

... and sing that ole favorite 'Superstition' :cool: :cool: :cool:

or possibly 'Scop's, hey what's that sound, everybody look what's going down' ...

message box now cleared (those who were trying to pvt message moi) ..

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Aquila,
Thanks! Eagerly awaiting the chance to dazzle a Scops Owl here, with sheer white light, but, until then, I'll just have to amuse myself on this website!
Seriously, the only Scops that I've seen anywhere was under torchlight, I must admit, but we neither shone the torch at the bird's eyes nor stayed for too long...as it was on some quiet Spanish country road, I should hope that it wasn't lamped by anyone else subsequently. The views were incredible...now back to muttering and moaning about the lads wielding Batsignal-esque lights in Engerland.... ;)
Harry

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Hi Harry, the only one I actually saw was calling from the roof my tent about 1.00am somewhere in the Pyrenean foothills. I slowly stuck my head out and had point blank views in natural light!

Meanwhile here's the text of a message posted by one Noel Lewis on the UK400Club forum:

"No wonder the locals aren't so pleased, If birders would just stick to the rules than I am sure there would be no problems. The reason for my post is that I have just been reading the Bog Bumper blog at www.bogbumper.blogspot.com and the author of this blog writes -

'' There were around 400 people trying to get around in a hurry, so twitchers started hurdling the fence next to the gate, with predictable results: 'It was like Becher's Brook in the Grand National... one bloke caught his leg on the fence and fell into a blackberry bush''

Now people are wondering why the locals are kicking up a fuss, it really does surprise me that some birders are not sticking to the Country Code and are showing total ignorance towards it."


This response from LGRE:

"I visited Thrupp village Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings and in
general, birders were very well behaved and considerate. However, lamping the bird
has now become a problem and largely a free-for-all and in my view probably
detrimental to the bird's welfare. If lamping is done, it should be slowly and
direct, not flashing all over the tree and surrounding countryside. Once
located, the bird should be lamped ONLY if it is facing away or hooting in a fashion
that means it is only glancing at the torch light occasionally. IT SHOULD NOT
BE LAMPED DIRECT INTO THE EYES FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE. In fact, when the lamps
are shined into its eyes, it immediately flies off on most occasions. It
certainly seems to be more unsettled in recent days and is widening its circuit of
trees from where to call."

And this from John Bernard Bell:

"Unfortunately a few birders did take to running through the horse paddock.

A few birders drove into the village which I was under the impression was a no no."

[Reader]

Erm, no. Based on what was written by those who were there - don't need to be there to read that this bird is being spotlighted for hours each night and to have an opinion on it. Have I misunderstood, has this bird not been targeted by multiple spotlights for many hours each evening? BTW similar has been said by some attending (see beginning of thread).



You have completely misunderstood Jos. First of all there is nowhere in this thread that says this bird is being spotlighted for hours. On the night I was there it actually was being spotlighted in three areas and those were only three of many areas it visited throughout the night. It went for long periods without being seen and never stopped in any tree for any length of time, lamped or not.

The most it was in one tree when I was there was seven minutes (and within those seven minutes it was perhaps lamped for three of them). For the most part it was always on the move.

Now you could say that was down to the lamping, and i can't argue that point as I am not experienced enough, but it was also completely on the move in the areas where the birders didn't go so in those areas lamping couldn't be the reason it was moving.

You are also wrong on multiple spotlighting. Whilst i was there anyone that tried to put a third spotlight on was told to turn it off. There were usually two on the go in different areas of the tree (LGRE's being lower powered than the other giving off a softer light). Once the bird was located the second one was switched off.

The other point was that once the bird was seen it was illuminated by the outer edges of the beam rather than the centre of the main beam.

All the harm the twitchers are supposedly causing should be having some adverse effect by now (not that you can notice any yet). In fact as Paul stated it was actually actively feeding in the one spotlight that was trained on the area it was in.

I have been on some twitches that have disgusted me in the past but this wasn't one of them. In fact such was the family atmosphere that this little bird might have spawned quite a few more birdwatchers but I suppose some wag in this thread will think I am making things suit the occasion to make it all look good. If that is the case so be it.

I personally don't give a damn anymore. I for one don't think you can have a sensible debate anymore on BF as there are two many that want to make it personal.

I'm wondering if some of these so called do gooders are really in an argument for the birds welfare or just in it for the argument. I know one or two members in this thread that I feel are genuine in what they say (both for and against) but i suspect a few just couldn't give a damn about the bird even with all their arguments that say they do.


One thing we are forgetting about this bird stay is that something will benefit, as well as the goodwill that is being generated in the village, and that is the good collection that is being made off the back of the visiting crowds and that is the fund for cystic fibrosis, but I suppose again the wags will have a go at even that as a way of smoothing over the cracks of this twitch.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

John

[Andrew]

5-6 people Harry!

[Tim Allwood]

This response from LGRE:

"I visited Thrupp village Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings and in
general, birders were very well behaved and considerate. However, lamping the bird
has now become a problem and largely a free-for-all and in my view probably
detrimental to the bird's welfare. If lamping is done, it should be slowly and
direct, not flashing all over the tree and surrounding countryside. Once
located, the bird should be lamped ONLY if it is facing away or hooting in a fashion
that means it is only glancing at the torch light occasionally. IT SHOULD NOT
BE LAMPED DIRECT INTO THE EYES FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE. In fact, when the lamps
are shined into its eyes, it immediately flies off on most occasions. It
certainly seems to be more unsettled in recent days and is widening its circuit of
trees from where to call."
"

wise words from Mr E.

maybe now a few people will get a sense of reality and stop blindly (no pun) defending the actions...

lamping is fine, if done with common sense... he says again

Tim

[tom mckinney]

here's the text of a message posted by one Noel Lewis on the UK400Club forum:

"No wonder the locals aren't so pleased, If birders would just stick to the rules than I am sure there would be no problems. The reason for my post is that I have just been reading the Bog Bumper blog at www.bogbumper.blogspot.com and the author of this blog writes -

'' There were around 400 people trying to get around in a hurry, so twitchers started hurdling the fence next to the gate, with predictable results: 'It was like Becher's Brook in the Grand National... one bloke caught his leg on the fence and fell into a blackberry bush''

Ha! That quote is me. :'D

I went on the Wednesday and then went back on the Friday when I bumped into Katie Fuller (the Bog Bumper). That's right, it was just like Becher's Brook. There were twitchers with broken legs lying in the bushes, some were later humanely destroyed. It was appalling. The Owl almost fell out of its tree it was so shocked by the scenes of carnage unfolding in the beautiful hamlet of Thrupp.

I fear an ever so slightly tongue-in-cheek conversation between Ms Fuller and myself has been taken a wee bit too seriously!

By the way, nice thread. Not at all predictable. :flyaway:

[London Birder]

couldn't give a rats arse what he says, load of old crap ... scores of hairy arsed birders charging around (at least on occasion), lamping the poor little bugger and for what?

ornithological insight? doubt it, lets be honest, a tick in a box ... wait till a showy one shows up or modify tick criteria.


fail to see how any of it has been worth it (and no, I'm not anti-twitching) ...

[The Barn Owl]

Don't know if I was particularly lucky (would have seen 'THE owl' sooner if I was) but fairly sure I spoke to you during your first visit about 1:00pm when you spotted a Red Kite, so a belated Hello.

Nick

Yep, 'twas me. You should consider yourself lucky - I stayed until 10:30pm without any views (Mum refused point-blank to let me stay any longer) Ah well! Glad you saw it eventually.

Sam

[Tim Allwood]

You'll be near some Black Hairstreak sites, but might be a week too early. The toughest of the lot I gather..intend to try for this one meself this year. Someone told me that whitecross green wood is a good bet for them. Might need a scope !

Hey Larry

cheers mate

been there a couple of times for Black Hairstreak when i worked at RSPB Banbury. Could try again. I'm trying to raise interest in a visit from Norwich on Fri night. Would be good to meet a few folks for a beer - if it stays.

no fun runners yet though...

Tim

[Highway Man]

Ha! That quote is me. :'D

I went on the Wednesday and then went back on the Friday when I bumped into Katie Fuller (the Bog Bumper). That's right, it was just like Becher's Brook. There were twitchers with broken legs lying in the bushes, some were later humanely destroyed. It was appalling. The Owl almost fell out of its tree it was so shocked by the scenes of carnage unfolding in the beautiful hamlet of Thrupp.

I fear an ever so slightly tongue-in-cheek conversation between Ms Fuller and myself has been taken a wee bit too seriously!

By the way, nice thread. Not at all predictable. :flyaway:

Nice one Tom

I saw you and your good lady on Friday night, but didn't get to talk to you. Though you would probably have shunned me - you celebrities are like that.

Mark

[Cuckoo-shrike]

there are two many that want to make it personal.

Nah, there's definitely more than two.
You're talking nonsense though. Of course it's not personal. I've never even met any of them - and I'm unlikely to. Thankfully.

[Osprey_watcher]

I moaned about what Tim said because he always has his little gos at twitchers, and it gets boring.
Maybe you find it boring. But everyone has the right to voice their opinion. And to reiterate that opinion if the invidual feels the point is not getting across.

[redeyedvideo]

You'll be near some Black hairstreak sites. I'm trying to raise interest in a visit from Norwich on Fri night. Would be good to meet a few folks for a beer - if it stays.

no fun runners yet though...

Tim

If what stays, the Hairstreak or the owl? ;)

Originally Posted by wrexile1
I moaned about what Tim said because he always has his little go(e)s at twitchers, and it gets boring.

Let Tim have his fun, if you follow the threads you'll find he's just an old fashioned twitcher himself, Black lark, Trumpeter Finch, Little Swift, Scops Howl!!!

He just happens to have a sense of humour too. Or should that be two?


Dave J

B (:

[Jos Stratford]

You have completely misunderstood Jos. First of all there is nowhere in this thread that says this bird is being spotlighted for hours.

You are also wrong on multiple spotlighting. Whilst i was there anyone that tried to put a third spotlight on was told to turn it off. There were usually two on the go in different areas of the tree (LGRE's being lower powered than the other giving off a softer light). Once the bird was located the second one was switched off.



Funny, does this mean Lee, who has presumably been at the site more than anyone, has also misunderstood the situation?

He is now saying much the same as some of the concerns being raised here ...to requote Lee's words, in case you anyone missed it:

"lamping the bird has now become a problem and largely a free-for-all and in my view probably detrimental to the bird's welfare."

"It certainly seems to be more unsettled in recent days and is widening its circuit of trees from where to call."

[Collster]

Pity he didn't reach that conclusion after the first session

[dan pointon]

Another one of LGRE's recent quotes, painting an entirely different picture:

''I actually believe using the spotlights causes less disturbance to the bird
than if they were not used, as then birders would be battling it out right
beneath the bird trying to locate it. It also alleviates the problems created by
visiting birders on the villagers. The bird kept calling throughout the period
it was in torchlight (25 minutes or more) and faced away from the light. It
was clearly not being denied the chance to feed. Surely if the bird did not like
the light being shined on it, it would fly off. In the two hours of darkness
before midnight, there should be ample opportunity to see the bird''

Unfortunately it seems threads like this, whether 'in jest' or not, are having a detrimental affect on the forum as a whole, with experienced and long standing members feeling more and more inclined not to post, and I can only imagine what guest viewers to the forum must think - we're never all going to agree, about time we settled our differences and let such issues go.

[LSB]

I can just picture the scene now. A Twitcher enters his local shop for some new batteries for his lamp, and finds Arkwright behind the counter.. Twitcher “ do you sell lamp batteries ?” “L L L Lamp B b batteries Sir? Why of course we do sir. What size?” “ D size “ reply’s the Twitcher. “ Oh D D D D size so you’re a sun reader then s s sir? G G G Granvile fetch your box!…..
Enter Granvile from the back room with the box of batteries. “ Here you go sir D size batteries how many?”
“ 4 “ . “that’s a lot of batteries “ says Granvile. “well I was using my lamp last night to see a Scops Owl.” the Twitcher says. “A w w w what ?” asks Arkwright. “ A European Scops Owl “ reply’s Granvile knowingly. “ Oh!” says Arkwright “Didn’t you af f f feel a tit ? Standing in a field in the dark? Speaking of tits I wonder what Nurse Gladys Emmanuel is doing tonight”……………fade out…..

Can you tell Ive never seen one. btw ;)

[Tim Allwood]

Another one of LGRE's recent quotes, painting an entirely different picture:

''I actually believe using the spotlights causes less disturbance to the bird
than if they were not used, as then birders would be battling it out right
beneath the bird trying to locate it. It also alleviates the problems created by
visiting birders on the villagers. The bird kept calling throughout the period
it was in torchlight (25 minutes or more) and faced away from the light. It
was clearly not being denied the chance to feed. Surely if the bird did not like
the light being shined on it, it would fly off. In the two hours of darkness
before midnight, there should be ample opportunity to see the bird''

Unfortunately it seems threads like this are having a detrimental affect on the forum, with experienced and long standing members feeling more and more inclined not to post, and I can only imagine what guest viewers to the forum must think - we're never all going to agree, about time we settled our differences and let the issue go.


at the risk of boring people senseless, read what the professor said about the effect of the light. It's posted earlier on. I don't really care what people do, most of what i write is for fun, but when people 'overlook' the facts to justify what they do, especially based on experience of one real life situation, that really irks me. Surely it's simple to acknowledge the effects and just fess up?

isn't Lee's entirley different picture just saying that the lamping prevents people from being even bigger tools?

still no runners... come on you lazy tickers... it's for the birds. There are lots of Otus in Asia you know

:eek!:

[Kite]

we're never all going to agree, about time we settled our differences and let such issues go.

Exactly. One way or another this thread has probably bored everyone. Perhaps it should just be left now... twitchers can go and leap over birds and shine torches in the face of fences, and the rest can go back to what you do, watching garden birds or something B (: ;)

[dan pointon]

when people 'overlook' the facts to justify what they do, especially based on experience of one real life situation, that really irks me. Surely it's simple to acknowledge the effects and just fess up?



:gn: People who want to see the bird will go and see it, people who don't, won't, simple as, that isn't going to change. Can we leave it now, please!

[Steven Astley]

The welfare of birds at unregulated twitches is always going to be an issue. As far as Lee 'i have 500+ uk ticks therefore i am an expert at everything birding' Evans comments i take with pinch salt. The professors views is more authorative.

It's been a good debate I suggest people who are upset by this thread should join the beeb forum where things are lot gentler.

I suggest Tim if you want raise money at your charity event how about you in stocks and people paying to throw wet sponges at you, think of the amount of money you would raise with twitchers, anti wind farm protestors etc. queing up to have a go

[London Birder]

if there was organised lamping, who was running it?

once they stopped running it (if it has stopped) did they leave any checks and balances in place for after they decided to move on to pastures new? .. ie. instruct local birders on 'how to lamp sensibly according to what we consider right' for those 'stragglers' that would inevitably show up?

did they honestly expect it all to cease once they'd stopped the organised lamping?

[Jos Stratford]

Can we leave it now, please!

Leave it? This thread is more popular than the actual owl - almost 8000 views in less time than the owl has been there! (and it sure is less damaging to the real birds welfare 3:-) )

[Adey Baker]

might be tempted this fri nite for a drunken owling sesh - any interesting butterflies or plants nearby?

Tim :cool:

What about checking the nearby Canal for dragonflies, etc? Carl Baggott and I did just that with our local canal over the weekend and found good numbers of White-legged Damselflies which had been grossly under-recorded before, plus a bucketful of those nearly-extinct Water Voles.

Or how about gathering up a load of those Glow-worms mentioned by Nick-on and with the aid of a reflector of some sort you could focus them onto the Owl :eek!:

[Gavin Haig]

Thought I'd just look in and see how this, erm, discussion was going. Took me half the night to plough through today's posts. Quite a to-do.

Nice cross section of the UK birding scene represented.....

Keen Lister. Chuffed to have seen a new bird, rushes to the thread to share his excitement, only to be quenched by the gloomy doom-saying of the...

Twitch-Spoiler. Many are ex/occasional-twitchers themselves, but all are expert at hi-jacking the 'Rare Bird Information' Forum with their how-dare-you-have-fun-at-the-expense-of-the-bird opinionating, thereby once in a while rendering a thread unpalatable for the Keen Lister, to the extent that the more sensitive souls are discouraged from posting. Shame on you (and that's not tongue in cheek). They appear momentarily unaware that they could start a whole new thread on the ethics of lamping, twitching, keeping a list etc....etc...where the intricacies of such debates could be discussed ad nauseum, and give the impression they would much rather simply spoil the party. They are ably assisted by the...

Grump. Characterised by an inability to post anything that smacks of sharing excitement. In the field can be ID'd by their response to the Q "Anything about?". Ranges from stony glare and total silence, to a ranting tirade, querying your need to exist at all, let alone show your miserable face on their patch.

Almost forgot the Professional Cynic. Not a descrition species......too obvious!

When the thread reaches the stage where one or two BFers are losing the will to post, it's gone too far.

Take the (obviously viable) debate elsewhere, and leave the 'Rare Bird Information' Forum for just that.

[Kite]

Thought I'd just look in and see how this, erm, discussion was going. Took me half the night to plough through today's posts. Quite a to-do.

Nice cross section of the UK birding scene represented.....

Keen Lister. Chuffed to have seen a new bird, rushes to the thread to share his excitement, only to be quenched by the gloomy doom-saying of the...

Twitch-Spoiler. Many are ex/occasional-twitchers themselves, but all are expert at hi-jacking the 'Rare Bird Information' Forum with their how-dare-you-have-fun-at-the-expense-of-the-bird opinionating, thereby once in a while rendering a thread unpalatable for the Keen Lister, to the extent that the more sensitive souls are discouraged from posting. Shame on you (and that's not tongue in cheek). They appear momentarily unaware that they could start a whole new thread on the ethics of lamping, twitching, keeping a list etc....etc...where the intricacies of such debates could be discussed ad nauseum, and give the impression they would much rather simply spoil the party. They are ably assisted by the...

Grump. Characterised by an inability to post anything that smacks of sharing excitement. In the field can be ID'd by their response to the Q "Anything about?". Ranges from stony glare and total silence, to a ranting tirade, querying your need to exist at all, let alone show your miserable face on their patch.

Almost forgot the Professional Cynic. Not a descrition species......too obvious!

When the thread reaches the stage where one or two BFers are losing the will to post, it's gone too far.

Take the (obviously viable) debate elsewhere, and leave the 'Rare Bird Information' Forum for just that.

Very well put Gavin B (: :clap::eat::D