When is a bird?

[walwyn]

I'm confused!

Saturday I went to Rutland Water to see Osprey, and sure enough got to see a pair from one of the Lax Hill hides (Widgeon?).

There was another guy there who was ecstatic at seeing Osprey (first for me too), and kept muttering wonderful, great, etc. His mate said something about 'better view than at Loch Garten'.

Michael says in another thread (http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=43988#post43988) that as far as the BOURC is concerned, these birds aren't real. So does that mean that with 'real' and 'unreal' Osprey in the country any seen on migration are suspect, until you know where they end up?

Earlier in the day I over heard someone saying that the 'Ruddy Shelduck' were real, but the Australian ones weren't. And what of the Egyptian Geese? Rutland has a feral population, but what of elsewhere? And what does feral mean anyway?

Then there are the 'unreal' Red Kites from Spain which are now 'real' and the 'unreal' parrots unless you see them in the SE.

The more I think about this the more surreal it all becomes.

[phyllosc]

I guess it comes down to comparative listing. How can birder A compare his list with birder B when birder B has ticked species X when everyone knew it was likely to be an escape, while birder A had twitch the 'real' species X back in the 70's.

Meanwhile birder C has seen species X abroad and doesn't really care but then species X has now been split by the Dutch and birder C cannot recall which of the two races, X1 or X2, he saw. Birder A knows this because he's been sleeping with birder C's ex-wife, who left him over the his twitch for species Y in Dorest in '94. Birder A confronts Birder C over the X1/2 issue in ear shot of Birder B. Someone - I couldn't hear who, the pub was very noisy - accuses Birder B of being a 'stringer' and he replies 'At least I'm not sh*gg*ng my best mates ex-wife!' Tables were upturned and fist flew.

The birders carried on birding though they never spoke again. Birder A concentrates on his world list these days, Birder B spends more time with his ringing (banding) and Birder C drives to coast each weekend and does nothing but seawtching.

It's not an unhappy ending though. The ex-wife settled down with the landlord's son. He likes football and golf and as such makes a far more reliable partner than any birder.

So you see Walwyn, it is very important that we make these status distinctions between birds.

Dave

[Charles Harper]

A work of genius, Dave!

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Walwyn,

Do remember, one of those Ospreys is real . . . you gotta work out which one, by careful observation of the behaviour [hint: like most raptors, dad does the hunting, and mum prepares the food for the kidz and generally looks after them]. Well I guess its nice that the tickable one is the one that stays home, so is the more easily seen of the two!!

Quite what the kidz count as, I haven't a clue!! I'll leave that for the boffins at the BOU Records Committee to work out. But I suspect they'll get the nod, given they've got a genuine mum.

Australian Shelducks are escapes from zoos, so they can't be counted.

Most Ruddy Shelducks are also escapes from zoos, but a few are probably genuine vagrants from their breeding grounds in Asia, and these can be ticked - IF you can come to a firm conclusion that they are wild individuals and not escapes (not easy!!)

Egyptian Geese were originally escapes from zoos. But they actually started breeding here, and they bred well enough that it was judged (by the BOURC) that they were here to stay. So they get given honorific citizenship papers and are allowed onto the lists (that's basically what 'feral' means).

That could happen with the escaped Ruddy Shelducks and OZ Shelducks too, if they were sufficiently successful at breeding in Britain - but to date, their success has been pretty poor, so they've not been allowed in.

The released Red Kites by contrast showed themselves very good at breeding here, so they were allowed in quickly.

If you want to read up on all the full definitions, check on the BOU website, it's in the list of websites on the BF Links page.

But yes, surreal does seem pretty apt at times!

Michael

[phyllosc]

Thank you, Charles.

Dave

[walwyn]

Yep I liked it too.

But really X1 and X2 (http://www.birdforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6140) that is like differentiating between Bradfordians and Harrowgatians. When all is said and done it is still a Yorkshire goose to chase.

[phyllosc]

The Dutch splitting Yorkshiremen? Now that would be surreal.

Dave

[Michael Frankis]

Actually, they were split, and by the UK authorities too, into no less than FIVE different species, just short of 30 years ago:
West Yorkshiremen
South Yorkshiremen
North Yorkshiremen
Clevelanders
Humbersiders

The last two cases are interestng, as they were at the same time lumped with races of Durhammen and Lincsmen respectively. Further genetic evidence has resulted in the reversal of the taxon Humbersiders back to their original status in two different species.

Michael

[Colin]

Dave,
How did you know that I have been sleeping with Birder C's ex-wife????


Oh, sorry, I misread your post. I see that you said "Birder A", lots of people call me "A birder". 3:-)

[Edward]

Originally posted by phyllosc
The Dutch splitting Yorkshiremen?

Separating Bradfordians and Harrogatians should prove no problem, one lot are rough, the other posh but I think the idea of DNA testing Yorkies is dead in the water. They are all so hopelessly in-bred.

E
(born west of the Pennines)