Zeiss 85 or Nikon ED82?

[Jaff]

Please ignore my other thread altogether now.

This is how things stand.

On warehouseexpress I could get the Nikon ED82 w 25-75x zoom MC eyepiece for £898 and the Zeiss 85 w 30x WA for £899.

My concerns are the focussing on the Nikon and the supposed narrow field of view, particularly for digscoping and the
weight of it but I've read that the overall image quality is better than the Zeiss.

I will try them out this week but any thoughts people have will make my decision a whole lot easier. :t:

[SiG]

Diascope. No brainer. Ignored your earlier topic as it wasn't comparing similar size scopes, but now you are. The Nikon is very good; the diascope is the best. I don't own one: I had to settle for a Swarovski ATS80 HD, as they change hands second hand within my price range. Angled diascopes very seldom do - a sign of just how satisfied their owners are.

The range of the zoom on the Nikon scares me a bit - I'd be interested to look through it at 75x too! I have a 20-60x and a 30x; 30x is most often used and gives a great image.

[Jaff]

Diascope. No brainer. Ignored your earlier topic as it wasn't comparing similar size scopes, but now you are. The Nikon is very good; the diascope is the best. I don't own one: I had to settle for a Swarovski ATS80 HD, as they change hands second hand within my price range. Angled diascopes very seldom do - a sign of just how satisfied their owners are.

The range of the zoom on the Nikon scares me a bit - I'd be interested to look through it at 75x too! I have a 20-60x and a 30x; 30x is most often used and gives a great image.

Hi SiG,

I should've said the Zeiss has to be straight and in silver, but I'd rather have straight than angled anyway.

My leaning is toward the Zeiss at the momemt, although you get the zoom lens with the Nikon, and the final decision
will be after I've tried them but you have to be certain with these kind of things

[SiG]

Hi SiG,

I should've said the Zeiss has to be straight and in silver, but I'd rather have straight than angled anyway.

My leaning is toward the Zeiss at the momemt, although you get the zoom lens with the Nikon, and the final decision
will be after I've tried them but you have to be certain with these kind of things


Indeed you do. But you can always purchase a zoom eye-piece at a future date (or vice-versa.) If I were you and bought the Zeiss, I'd immediately set up an auto-search for eye-pieces and other accessories on Ebay, worldwide, to keep an eye out for other bargains - warehouse express isn't the only place for them (and there's a number to be had from time to time on here and other fora) ... remains the case that you see very very few secondhand diascopes get advertised.

[iporali]

My concerns are the focussing on the Nikon and the supposed narrow field of view, particularly for digscoping and the
weight of it but I've read that the overall image quality is better than the Zeiss.
Jaff,

If you go with the Nikon, you will need the 30xDS eyepiece for digiscoping. If you go with the Zeiss, you will need the zoom for ...everything.

The Nikon has better colours, contrast and geometry, but the Zeiss has less CA and the *zoom* has a much wider FOV. Just pick the criteria that are most important to you.

But for digiscoping neither are as good as the Swaro ATS80HD or the Leica APO... :hi:

Best regards,

Ilkka

[jcwings]

I am a Zeiss 85 straight in silver owner. I love it and wouldn't trade it (except maybe for a Leica straight which was a fair amount more expensive). I use the 30W eyepiece and I recall reading somewhere that a fixed eyepiece for digiscoping is better than a zoom. I believe the limiting factor in my digiscoping results is my camera. Good photo editing software is also necessary.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/almiyi/

[Jaff]

Had a look and a play with them both today and these are my conclusions.

The Nikon is a fantastic scope and the extra mag. on the zoom lens does come in very handy for I.D.ing birds and the narrower FOV is not dramatic and only becomes a nuisance for digiscoping because the light is greatly reduced compared to the Zeiss. With the 30x WA e.p. it would be more suitable for digiscoping, but that means spending the money to get two lenses which takes its price towards the Zeiss with a zoom lens, but we'll come to that. I can understand now what has been said about getting the focus right but you soon get the nack of how to do it and the focusing ring wasn't stiff at all. I could only see it becoming a true problem when digiscoping with it, even then it would be nothing more than an annoyance that you'd soon live with. A lot has also been made about the compact and lightweight design of the Zeiss but I could not see or detect any real difference from the Nikon.

At £898 for the Nikon ED82 and the 25-75x MC zoom lens it would make a super birding scope at a great price but not a good digiscoping setup, which is why I'd pay the extra money for the Zeiss 85 w 20-60x zoom, if I had it, but unfortunately I don't and won't have come March 2007 either.

The Zeiss 85 Diascope is only truly completed with the zoom lens, the offer of £899 with the 30x lens was tempting but that is the trap I nearly fell for. The 20-60x zoom is what makes the scope so good and super for birding and digiscoping all in one because it just lets in a hell of a lot more light. The dual focusing wheels also add to the advantage for digiscoping over the Nikon. The DA-1 adapter from Infocus for the Coolpix 4500 fits the Zeiss zoom and is also one of the best adapters I've seen. It screws on to the camera and just snaps on to the e.p. and takes a second to take on or off whilst providing a solid hold over the e.p. when attached and still allows some access to the zoom.

In short then, if you just want a large objective ED scope for birding I'd say get the Nikon ED82 with the 25-75x zoom lens from Warehouseexpress for £898 now before the reduced offer on the body ends. If you want to digiscope aswell then save those pennies 'till you can afford the Zeiss w zoom lens, unless you can afford a Leica or Swaro but that's a whole different thread.
As for me I'm just going to keep plugging away with my Kowa until a second-hand Zeiss turns up (and that'll be the same day that hell freezes over!).

Thanks for everyone's help and advice and I hope what I've written here will help someone else in turn. :clap: B (: :clap:

Jaff

[scampo]

Please ignore my other thread altogether now.

This is how things stand.

On warehouseexpress I could get the Nikon ED82 w 25-75x zoom MC eyepiece for £898 and the Zeiss 85 w 30x WA for £899.

My concerns are the focussing on the Nikon and the supposed narrow field of view, particularly for digscoping and the
weight of it but I've read that the overall image quality is better than the Zeiss.

I will try them out this week but any thoughts people have will make my decision a whole lot easier. :t:We have the two (me - Zeiss 20-60x + 30xW; son - Nikon 25-75x + 30x). This is what we find:

- They are both brilliant birding scopes if you want a full size scope. Bear in mind this means that you need a good solid tripod and head to add to the bulk and weight. For carrying long distances, you need either to a) have a strong shouder, be determined, or own a Scopac; b) buy a graphite tripod and lightweight head (e.g. 700RC2). The Nikon is the most compact of the big scopes (all but the same length as the Swaro 65) and its eyepieces are lighter. The screw thread of the Nikon eyepieces is a cinch to use and never comes loose.

- Of the two, the Nikon gives a perfectly natural view: entirely "walk-in" and "3D" in appearance. In comparison, the Zeiss is its equal on "walk in" and ease of viewing but has been given by Zeiss a very faintly yellowish tinge apparently to improve vision through haze (something other users than birders require, apparently). That said, you only notice in direct comparison as both offer top class views that, on their own, seem quite amazing and entirely satisfying.

- the Zeiss zoom offers the widest of all possible views from a zoom eyepiece (about 50% greater than the Swaro, even) and the Nikon zoom offers the least wide fov of the top make scopes (but it does stretch to 75x - and perfectly useably). That said, the Nikon's reduced fov is only really noticeable at low powers as the view at higher powers is very good (never as wide as the Zeiss, but still fine). But... for me, the Zeiss is the scope to go for if you can only afford one eyepiece - a zoom. I would definitely recommend trying before you buy and most definitely trying the Nikon with the 30x which is, to me, beyond compare. To my eyes, it is only in comparison with the Zeiss zoom that you will notice the narrower fov of the Nikon. The Nikon 30xW (or, for that matter, the 38xW) both offer long eye relief and very wide views.

- The Nikon zoom has slightly less eye relief than the Zeiss for wearing specs or photography - but as the fov is smaller, this seems, to me, not to make a lot of difference. In photgraphy, it means you need slightly more zoom to get rid of vignetting.

- For digiscoping (which I gave up because it got in the way of birding and was a pain!), I'd say use the Nikon with 30xW and the Zeiss with 20-60x zoom. Both are capable of top results. I believe that Nikon produce special eyepieces for digscoping offering a greater eye relief even than the Zeiss.

- focusing is a delight on both scopes: very different but soon entirely natural seeming. Th Nikon is high geared so requires a smaller movement. This initially makes it seem less easy to focus at high magnification - fear not, it is an excellent focussing wheel.

- Nikon provides a superb stay-on case free, I think; the Zeiss case seems to attract a lot of criticism but a new neoprene case has just been launched (sounds interesting and is not too expensive, I think £65-00)

Hope that helps. I'd be interested to read your views once you've had a good field test!

PS While you're trying out, look at the Nikon EDIII and ED50 as well as the Zeiss 65. I had the baby Nikon for Christmas and quite frankly, it's amazing. It's all but weightless in comparison with the full size scopes and, well, it does the job brilliantly - with a graphite tripod it's so very light. For a new scope I've seen quite a few about suggesting that others are recognising its undoubted qualities).

[horukuru]

nice review scampo !

[scampo]

Had a look and a play with them both today and these are my conclusions.

The Nikon is a fantastic scope and the extra mag. on the zoom lens does come in very handy for I.D.ing birds and the narrower FOV is not dramatic and only becomes a nuisance for digiscoping because the light is greatly reduced compared to the Zeiss. With the 30x WA e.p. it would be more suitable for digiscoping, but that means spending the money to get two lenses which takes its price towards the Zeiss with a zoom lens, but we'll come to that. I can understand now what has been said about getting the focus right but you soon get the nack of how to do it and the focusing ring wasn't stiff at all. I could only see it becoming a true problem when digiscoping with it, even then it would be nothing more than an annoyance that you'd soon live with. A lot has also been made about the compact and lightweight design of the Zeiss but I could not see or detect any real difference from the Nikon.

At £898 for the Nikon ED82 and the 25-75x MC zoom lens it would make a super birding scope at a great price but not a good digiscoping setup, which is why I'd pay the extra money for the Zeiss 85 w 20-60x zoom, if I had it, but unfortunately I don't and won't have come March 2007 either.

The Zeiss 85 Diascope is only truly completed with the zoom lens, the offer of £899 with the 30x lens was tempting but that is the trap I nearly fell for. The 20-60x zoom is what makes the scope so good and super for birding and digiscoping all in one because it just lets in a hell of a lot more light. The dual focusing wheels also add to the advantage for digiscoping over the Nikon. The DA-1 adapter from Infocus for the Coolpix 4500 fits the Zeiss zoom and is also one of the best adapters I've seen. It screws on to the camera and just snaps on to the e.p. and takes a second to take on or off whilst providing a solid hold over the e.p. when attached and still allows some access to the zoom.

In short then, if you just want a large objective ED scope for birding I'd say get the Nikon ED82 with the 25-75x zoom lens from Warehouseexpress for £898 now before the reduced offer on the body ends. If you want to digiscope aswell then save those pennies 'till you can afford the Zeiss w zoom lens, unless you can afford a Leica or Swaro but that's a whole different thread.
As for me I'm just going to keep plugging away with my Kowa until a second-hand Zeiss turns up (and that'll be the same day that hell freezes over!).

Thanks for everyone's help and advice and I hope what I've written here will help someone else in turn. :clap: B (: :clap:

Jaff
A good report but you make two points that I can't quite understand:

a) the Nikon lets in as much light as any similar scope. It's design and 82mm objective assure this occurs.

b) The Leica and Swaro are not optically superior to either the Nikon or the Zeiss - just different. Indeed the Nikon with 30x is surely unsurpassed and the Zeiss with zoom offers distinct advantages.

There are many on this forum with the Nikon ED78 which was sold off at a bargain price at Warehouse Express and they all love the thing! The ED82 is even better.

[scampo]

nice review scampo !
Thanks Horokuru!

[Jaff]

A good report but you make two points that I can't quite understand:

a) the Nikon lets in as much light as any similar scope. It's design and 82mm objective assure this occurs.

b) The Leica and Swaro are not optically superior to either the Nikon or the Zeiss - just different. Indeed the Nikon with 30x is surely unsurpassed and the Zeiss with zoom offers distinct advantages.

There are many on this forum with the Nikon ED78 which was sold off at a bargain price at Warehouse Express and they all love the thing! The ED82 is even better.

Hi Scampo,

Thanks for your review, albeit a little late, you do have quite a unique situation in your household with you having your Zeiss and your son having the Nikon, I'm sure you've been able to test them in every situation imaginable.

Firstly, your right the Nikon scope does let in just as much light as the Zeiss but where the Zeiss trumps the Nikon is getting all that light through the eyepiece and to your waiting eye or, more importantly for my needs, the camera. The Zeiss at 20x on the zoom lets more light through than even the Nikon with the 30x WA. I'm not saying the Zeiss is the better scope, if I'd never heard of digiscoping I'd be a Nikon owner right now. Unfortunately digiscoping is under my skin and my prospective scope has to accommodate that. The Nikon with the 30x lens would do that but I'm a birder first and a digiscoper second so a zoom lens is a must and constantly switching lenses while birding would grow very tiresome. That is why the Zeiss has my vote, the zoom lens can do the lot and with the DA-1 adaptor that I mentioned I can be looking at one bird and then digiscoping another in less than 30 seconds.

As for the Swaro and Leica I didn't say they were better but they are more expensive and never on offer like the Zeiss and Nikon are right now, which is how all this started cos £900 is the limit of my budget.

Anyway it's all academic now as my choice is to stick with my Kowa TS612 and wait or get myself a new computer.

All the best :t:
Jaff

[scampo]

Hi Scampo,

Anyway it's all academic now as my choice is to stick with my Kowa TS612 and wait or get myself a new computer.

All the best :t:
Jaff
I should have read your post a little more closely - sorry. I get your point and agree fully. I'm a Zeiss fan - the 85+zoom takes some beating for both photography and birding.