Newbie ramblings

[ggirino]

Hello everyone,
just signed in and I start bothering you right away.

I accidentally stepped into this forum in my search for info on binoculars. Planning to buy one and knowing about nothing on the subject, I’m trying to build some knowledge on the matter.
Needless say that at this stage I’m still looking for the perfect binocular; the one that would be the best for any kind of use but I know this utopia won’t last for long.

So, let’s see if I got it right so far.
The top gun product lines, in random order and with regards to optical quality first and build quality second only, should be:
Leica Ultravid
Zeiss Victory FL
Swarovski EL
to which I might add the Minox HG as soon as reviews/opinions start to come out, even though the much lower price, compared to the above, might suggest equally lower performances.
That is to say, these are the ones you quickly scratch out of possible buys as soon as you see the prices!!!
Am I wrong to assume that others follow by a margin? Did I unforgivably leave out something important?

Then come some naive questions:
- Exit pupil, twilight factor and what elseIf I’m not mistaking these tell nothing about quality. They just follow from the dxM numbers. Correct?
- Depth of field
as above, doesn’t this, in any optical system, depend from focal length, aperture, focusing distance and circle of confusion only (leaving out the ratio between entrance and exit pupils since focusing at far enough distances for these to have a neglettable effect)? That is, isn’t it independent from materials/build quality?
- Image quality/brightness
Given the same power and disregarding any non optical factor such as cost, weight, etc., isn’t a larger lens preferable anyways? It looks to me that larger binocs, such as *x50, *x52, *x56, are little considered at least on forums like this one and alike.

If we then leave out the above parameters, what we’re left with that makes the quality of the instrument are things such as glass type, coating type, presence of aspherical elements (glass or plastics?), building tolerances, alignment, etc, which are all very difficult, when not impossible to quantify. I also wouldn’t leave out a good dose of fetishism over brand names: “heck man, it says Zeiss on it!!!”

Well, thank you for following so far, all that was just to say: am I correct to think that the “best” binocular is mainly subjective? I would anyways like to hear from those who feel the top gun list above is not correct, anyone think that there are other products (optics quality only) that are up to or superior to the ones I mentioned?

With the promise of keeping quiet for a while,
ciao
Lino

[Penny Clarke]

Hello there

In a nutshell the Swarovski 8x32 EL's are the BEST binocular around, which I don't have but WILL have by next year hopefully!!!!!!! They are very light weight, much lighter than the 8.5x42 EL's and although field of view is not quite as good on the 8x32's the extra lightness more than compensates — I think so anyway!!!!

Best Wishes Penny

[ceasar]

Hi Lino,
Welcome to Birdforum's Binocular Forum! WARNING--This site can become addicting!

In addition to the big 3 manufacturers you mentioned above, there is a 4th manufacturer whose best binoculars equal or exceed the big 3 in quality and performance. That would be Nikon with it's LXL Roof Prism binoculars and SE Porro Prism binoculars. Nikon's prices are rather a bit friendlier to your pocketbook also.

As to which one makes the best 8 x 32 binocular, it is the considered opinion of many, if not most experts, that the Nikon 8 x 32 SE (Superior E) Porro Prism is optically better than any equivalent Roof Prism made, and it costs about half as much as the 8 x 32's made by the big 3! Additionally, it's big brother, the 10 x 42 SE, which I own and use, has a view which can only be described in superlatives! It can also be argued that the Nikon 8 x 32 LXL Roof Prism is just as good as the ones made by the big 3. Again at 2/3rds their cost.

Now, then: As far as your technical questions; I recommend that you read Better View Desired's articles on choosing and using binoculars. www.betterviewdesired.com.

Additionally, Eagle Optics has very good educational articles on their website: www.eagleoptics.com.

Nothing like diving in headfirst! Good Luck!

Bob B (:

[Tero]

Welcome!

I don't own any Leicas Zeiss Swarovskis and have been able to find nearly 300 species with plain old Nikons and a beginner scope. If you are going to spend some time birding, leave room for a scope as well, it costs about as much as the bins. A well chosen 8x42 roof prism and a scope is all you really need. If you like porros, a few 8x40 porros are OK. For 10x, there are good foor prisms for under 500 euros. The guys that post here in this section are mostly equipment junkies, but some are also good birders.

[Alexis Powell]

Designating what is the "best" binocular is certainly subjective. Binos are complex, so it is impossible to optimize all their optical, ergonomic, and build quality attributes of interest, thus certain users will prefer one model's set of strengths and compromises over those of another. Certain models do stand out from the others, however, as being particularly impressive to many critics/users (e.g. Zeiss 7x42 Classic, Leica 8x32 BA/BN, Nikon 8x32 SE to name just a few), so it's not a bad idea to compare whatever you are considering buying to such commmunity favorites. When it comes to optical quality in the very center of the field, there are MANY MANY binoculars that are the equal of the top guns you've named. When it comes to overall optical (and even build) quality, I'd say your biggest omission among widely available stuff of recent manufacture is Nikon as a brand, and its SE porros, HG/LX roofs, and recently discontinued EII porros in particular. There are lots of older porros with awesome optics too, especially if long eye-relief is not of concern.
--AP

[pduxon]

Lino

I would add the Nikon HGL to your list of top bins.

Size is not everything. If you are out in the field all day a big heavy bin will prove cumbersome.

If you want to read some excellent reviews of binoculars check out www.alula.fi

Oh and Penny - they are not!

[Penny Clarke]

Lino

I would add the Nikon HGL to your list of top bins.

Size is not everything. If you are out in the field all day a big heavy bin will prove cumbersome.

If you want to read some excellent reviews of binoculars check out www.alula.fi

Oh and Penny - they are not!

Hi Pete

Well they are a million times better than my old Optolyth Alpins!!!! I admit I have not looked through ALL top brands, but they were they best of what I looked through and I have heard several people say the same. I have not looked at the Nikon HGL (thanks for tip) so will do so before making my purchase next year. All a matter of personal preference at the end of the day.

Cheers Penny

[pduxon]

Hi Pete

Well they are a million times better than my old Optolyth Alpins!!!! I admit I have not looked through ALL top brands, but they were they best of what I looked through and I have heard several people say the same. I have not looked at the Nikon HGL (thanks for tip) so will do so before making my purchase next year. All a matter of personal preference at the end of the day.

Cheers Penny

hi Penny

line up the swaro, nikon, zeiss and leica's (don't overlook the 8x32 trinovids - i prefer them to the ultras). also look at the £300 RSPB BG and see if you can tell the difference.

but as you say all personal. read reviews ask opinions but trust your own eyes

[MacGee]

I'm looking to buy my first pair of good(ish) binoculars too and I recently had the chance to try the big 3 as well as Nikon and one or two others (they didn't have any of the ones I went in to look at). My ranking was as follows:

1 Zeiss Victory 8x32 (by a long way)
2 Swarovski EL 8.5x42
3 Leica Ultravid 8x32 (nicest looking by a long way)
4 Swarovski SLC 8x30
5 Nikon HGL 8x32 (heavy, clumsy, ugly)

When I looked at a street sign through the £600-odd Nikon there was a reddish fringe round the edge of it. Looking at the same sign through the Zeiss (£800-odd) the picture was clear and bright and the letters amazingly sharp. In fact they were sharper than those letters could possibly have been in person. If you know what I mean.

Hello again, Pete.

Michael.

[FrankD]

I tend to agree with most of the other comments above. However, I think I agree with Ceasar the most in terms of both the big "4" (typically when comparing the 8x42 roof prism models from each manufacturer). The 8x32 SE is, arguably, regarded as offering the best image quality of any normal sized bin but some folks have issues with their design.

I think your last statement sums up a comparison of the top roof prism bins....

am I correct to think that the “best” binocular is mainly subjective?

Each offers superb optical quality with certain biases both in terms of the image presented and the package it is presented in. Some folks just prefer one over the other. Personally, I think those four stand a bit above all the others on the market with a variety of very good to excellent bins coming in right at the $1000 price point.

[Pinewood]

Ciao Lino,

I would like to add one objective consideration: ED or FL glass. Binoculars using such glass seem to provide lower chromatic aberration and higher colour contrast. In the States, Swift Optics markets two binoculars with ED glass, at the middle price range. Alula favoured the Leica Ultra over the Zeiss FL but it is your money, so you should decide what you want, especially as your criteria may differ from those of others.
In previous posts, there are some contradictory opinions, so I will write that there is no perfect binocular. Even the considered opinion of many is not the opinion of every experienced binocular user. Trying the binocular before you buy it has always been good practice.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:

[ggirino]

Hi again,
I wish to thanks all for the prompt replies, useful links and suggestions.
I should perhaps have said that bird watching is not a real interest to me, I’m more of an optics fan, and for that reason I wonder if I really belong to this forum. I will nonetheless keep reading you and may be jump in from time to time.

Regards,
Lino

[Tero]

No problem, many here have turned birding into a minor sideline. An excuse for binoculars. ;)

[ggirino]

just to subscribe to this thread...

[postcardcv]

am I correct to think that the “best” binocular is mainly subjective?

you certainly are - there is not a 'best' binocular, if there was we'd all be using it. In optical quality the top four (adding the Nikon HGL to your list) are basically on a par, so selection often comes down to how they feel and focus.

I'm fortunate enough to work in an optics shop so regularly look through all of these top brands, I know which I prefer, but also know I would happily use any of the others.

You mentioned the new Minox HG, I had my first (brief) look at a pair the other day (the 8x33) and was very impressed. Very good optics and a nice feel in the hand, I have a feeling they will become quite popular. It will also be interesting to see what the new high end Kowa bins are like, I've not seen them but have been told that they're quite impressive.

[MacGee]

am I correct to think that the “best” binocular is mainly subjective?I've only been visiting here a short while myself, and I'm strongly aware that, though other people's experiences are useful (and often fascinating), they can only take you so far. Having read several perceptive reviews of the Leica Ultravid, I was all set to love them, but whenever I try them, I just can't. Beautiful looking things, but they just don't work for me. Same with Nikons; they get praised and recommended continuously on here, but whenever I see a pair, the thing that strikes me most forcibly is how much I don't like the look of them. Yet millions of people must think they look okay (at least) or they wouldn't buy them in such numbers.

My one-line reviews above were made in ignorance of the fact that I have a narrow IPD. So the opinions expressed would likely have been different if my eyes just happened to be a little further apart, or if my nose was a little thinner.

I must admit that when I first started reading all the "don't buy without trying" posts, I was sceptical. "They're just a couple of tubes stuck together," I thought. "What can possibly go wrong with that?" Now I know.

Michael.

[Sout Fork]

Welcome!

I don't own any Leicas Zeiss Swarovskis and have been able to find nearly 300 species with plain old Nikons and a beginner scope. The guys that post here in this section are mostly equipment junkies, but some are also good birders.

I have to agree with Tero here...

I have been birding for over 30 years now and have well over 600 species on my life list. I own seven pair of binos from $54 to well over a $1000 including a pair of Zeiss and Leicas and this does not include all the binos I have owned in the past. I own three scopes as well.

Today I'm going out looking for woodland warblers. My binos of choice?- my $54 Nikon Action 7x35. The bright ultra wide field of view with it's deep depth of field and relatively close focus is ideal for this kind of birding and none of the other bins are as well suited for this purpose.

To ask which binos are the best without any reference to use is a meaningless abstract question. Rather like asking someone else who you should marry.

If it came down to it and I had give up all but one I would keep the Zeiss 7x42's. Not because they are the "best" or "pefect" but simply because over-all they are the most versatile binos I have ever owned for my purposes.

SF