Guides for your part of the world

[pduxon]

This has sort of been asked before but....

reading this forum has been fascinating. Looking through the gallery is both exciting and frustrating as there are so many birds to see - I really need to win the lottery!

I'm tempted by the thought of an Aussie Guide, South American guide (especially after reading the Spix Macaw book), Africa etc....

So what guide/book would you recommend to oversees visitor to your country or have you used when abroad........

cheers

Pete

[Beverlybaynes]

Morning, Pete!

I'd certainly recommend the National Geographic guide for the US, as it's my personal favorite. I'm still using the 3rd edition, which I purchased several years ago, but there is a 4th edition which became available within the last year.

Good format, good illustrations, and covers the entire country in one book.

Sibley is, of course, a superb guide, but it's bigger and heavier. There are new Sibleys out now, though, smaller and divided into Eastern and Western guides. I've not yet given them a look.

The one I would NOT recommend for anyone coming to the US are the Audubon guides -- not that they don't have good information, but the format is awkward: males and females are not together, species accounts and range maps (small) are separate from the photos, etc. Their size, tho, is a big advantage.

Lots of other good guides for the US, too: Peterson's, Kaufmann, Golden Book. It's all a personal choice.

[Charles Harper]

Pete, don't get tempted to purchase until you're ready to go there-- you'll end up with a book that is outdated and superseded. New and better guides are coming out each year, for all areas of the glove, and this year's wonderbook may be on the remainder shelf before long.

[Edward]

A good idea this thread.
Of course, for my region the obvious choice is the Collins Bird Guide but for books specifically on Iceland then a friend of mine has written the best photographic guide to Icelandic birds called The Icelandic Bird Guide by Jóhann Óli Hilmarsson (available from NHBS). Icelandic birds are generally not difficult to identify but this is a good collection of first-rate photos. But for Europe, Collins, of course (beginning to sound like a scratched record).

I've seen three and own two Australian guides and would warmly recommend Pizzey and Knight. Aussie guides were done to death on another thread this week but I'm sure the Aussie birders won't mind making their points again.

E

[HokkaidoStu]

The only English-language fieldguide to Japan is over 20 years old and the information/illustrations leave a lot to be desired. There might be more up to date guides for East Asia ( China/Korea/Russia ) which have most Japanese birds but I haven't checked this out ( if indeed they exist ).

I think European birders have been a bit spoilt with the Collins Birdguide-I even use it here ( I'd say it has good descriptions on about half the birds here esp the Siberian races ). I haven't seen the Sibley guide and I used the Slater one in Australia a few years ago ( nowt special ).

I went to Venezuela and took a real monster of a book-Schaunesse and Phelps. Not even remotely user-friendly and I never really got to grips with the birds there I'm afraid. Like Charles said this has since been superceded ( I haven't seen that one yet ).

I've been to SE Asia and the Indian subcontient a few times but only took slim volumes containing common birds....I was on lengthy in my mid 20's backpacking pot-smoking tours of Asia and decided that I couldn't afford the big fieldguides and they were too heavy to carry anyway.

I used the Golden guide when I was in the States as a 12 year old kid.......is this book still in print? God only knows......

[Beverlybaynes]

Yep, Stu, there's still a Golden Book guide out there. BElieve a new one has been reissued in the last few years.

[HokkaidoStu]

Hi Beverley...I still have the Golden Guide ( purchased in 1981 in San Pedro ) on my bookshelf here in Japan. I kinda liked it-those sonographs were strange but interesting. I seem to remember it had ( has ) the same author/artist as the old Hamlyn guide ( "The birds of Britain and Europe" ) which was the first "real" fieldguide I ever bought.....................

[pduxon]

I understand Charles' point. But when our American or Australian friends are going on about a particular bird I feel this need to know what they, the bird looks like.

The Collins is of course amazing but some of the British guides are rather good, E.g Holden/Cleeves and the Madge, Kightley, Nurney.

The book I looked at and was disappointed by was the Lars Jonsson - although I've seen and liked some of the paintings from his new book.

Beverley would you recommend the NAt Geo or Sibley to first time birders to the US? There are alot of speicies over there that we don't see and I suppose vice versa. Could there be a case of info overload. I think that's why the Porters(?) praised the Kightley so much.

[Edward]

I defence of the Lars Jonsson, I think that some of his illustrations are second to none - divers and skuas for example. The thing is that that Jonsson's book was never devised as an identification guide, that was the publisher's idea who put together Jonsson's paintings over the years and put it out as a field guide.

Charles does have a point but I have field guides to North America, East Africa, Southern Africa, South Asia to name a few and have never visited any of these places and probably won't be doing for a while yet. However, looking through these books just getting an idea of what's out there has provided me with a lot of enjoyment. I really want the West Africa guide which was published last year and I haven't even started on South America - I say go for it Pete, get an "exotic" guide and it will start you dreaming. So what if you have to buy a new guide when you eventually visit Australia, Brazil or wherever. it's only 30 quid and you will have had a valuable headstart by having familiarised yourself with the birds in advance.

E

[fede]

In this part of the globe, we use Gary Stiles' / Alexander Skutch's A Guide to the Birds of Costa Rica, a really excelent book. We call it the Bible,the authors took more than 10 years putting it together. The only shortcomings are its weight and that the illustration plates are located in the center. Many modify it by taking out the plates and making them a separate book. The third edition has updated information on 8 new species that have invaded, mainly from Panama.
I consider the illustrations by Dana Gardner great, some people dislike them. By the way you can go to his site to check other neotropical guides he´s illustrated, I think his recent work is even better:
www.gardnerbirds.com

[pduxon]

Thanks for that Edward,

will get the Pizzey & Knight for Aus I can get that for £14 whereas Morcombe is 30. No contest!!

Pete

[Charles Harper]

Why didn't you say in the first place that you wanted a price list, not a critique, Pete?

[Beverlybaynes]

For birders doing their first visit to the US, I personally would recommend the National Geographic -- but that's a personal choice. It covers the entire country, including some exotics that have established populations, and the format is great, with the species account, range maps and illustrations on a two-page spread.

HOWEVER, the Sibley is magnificent for its illustrations, and for the range of plumages shown for each bird. It also covers the whole country. It is larger and heavier than the National Geographic, and I do not carry it into the field -- it stays in the car, along with the Birder's Handbook.

Sibley has issued two new guides, Eastern and Western, which I'm told are smaller and lighter. I have no personal experience with them, though.

The only guides I would caution against -- and again, it's a personal thing -- are the guides from Audubon. Very unhandy format, small pictures, scattered information, etc.

But Peterson's, Kaufmann and Golden all have their adherents, as well. I own the Peterson and the Kaufmann, but haven't really used them.

As for carrying them about, I found the perfect solution several years ago -- a guide carrier/cover, which holds my NG (they make a separate model for Sibley-sized books), then is divided and holds a small (5x7) legal pad for notes. Pen carrier in the spine, pocket, etc. It's a heavy cardboard/matteboard cover, covered in ripstop, waterproof nylon, and has a velcro fastener. There's a handle along the spine, then a removable strap that can be adjusted to sling over a shoulder or across the chest (my choice, as I have no shoulders to speak of). I paid about $30US for it back in 99 and have used it constantly since. Made by Fieldfare, I believe.

Do public libraries in England carry guides? I like to suggest that people go check out various guides and give them some trial runs before buying. While you won't be able to test your ID skills on American birds while still in England, at least you can get a feel for the formats and how well it works for you before shelling out the bucks.

[Malvolio]

Go to disagree that the National Geographic Guide is the best guide for someone visiting N.Am for the first time, even the latest edition has very inferior plates to the Sibley and unless you can feel that a guide is trustworthy its value is limited. On my first visits to N.Am I was constantly frustrated by the poor quality of the plates in Nat Geo.

In my view the conception and design of Sibley is superior to anything available in Europe. If we could have that design, text by Lars Svennson and illustrations by Lars Jonsson then that would be the ultimate guide.

Yhe biggest disappointment with the large format Collins was that the additional space available was not made use of to include extra text. I'm always amazed that so much emphasis is put on the measured length of birds - this is so misleading much of the time. Only Sibley had the sense to include weights which give a much better indication of size/bulk - that is what we tend to tend take in.

MV

[pduxon]

Originally posted by Charles Harper
Why didn't you say in the first place that you wanted a price list, not a critique, Pete?

Sorry Mr H but from reading the comments of the Aussies and Edward there doesn't seem much between the Pizzey/Kinght and the Morcombe. So something half the price seems the logical thing to buy? Especially when the Aussies seem to imply the Pizzey/Knight is more consistently illustrated. Am I missing something??

Pete

[pduxon]

When glancing through the Sibley I looked at the birds I'd seen. The Winter Wren in Sibley looked really strange when compared to the Collins.

[Tannin]

Yes you are missing something, Pete - but the something you are missing is the things I didn't mention about the Morecombe. Morecombe is by far the easiest Oz guide to find things in because it gets more birds per page without making the illustrations smaller (very clever layout); because it mixes descriptive (i.e., recognition aid) text in with the illustratons in such a way that there is less wasted verbiage and more room for interesting information,; and because those tiny dotted lines make it immerdiately obvious which species is under consideration.

IMO, Morecombe's layout will become the standard for all field guides over time: it really is streets in front of the others on that front. He consigns the nesting info to a seperate section (which wasn't of much interest to Edward but I find invaluable). We quite regularly find a nest and wonder who made it: with Morecombe's illustrated nest section, it's easy - and very interesting to browse just for its own sake.

So, in short, Morcombe offers things that none of the others do. I don't know why you are seeing such a price difference though: I'd expect to pay a little more, not double. Perhaps it's because Pizzey and Knight is getting a little old now. Graham Pizzey died a year or two ago, so I guess a new edition is unlikely - which is a shame, as he was a wonderful writer with a real gift for communicating about nature. I have several of his books and treasure them.

As an introduction to Australian birds, I'd recommend Morecombe without hesitation. But you will be very happy with Pizzey and Knight: we are lucky to have two such outstanding guides. By the way, there are two or three new photographic guides on the market here too. I confess to having bought them and then never really looked at them. (One of them is in a really weird order designed to make things "easier". No thanks!) I should drag the other one out and get to know it.

[pduxon]

Tannin

You live in Ballarat? Reminds me of the Sherlock Holmes Story!!.

If you think I'd be better off with the Morcombe then fine. From earlier comments it seemed unlikely to be worth twice the price. That said the dosh doesn't worry me.

Pete

[Malvolio]

"When glancing through the Sibley I looked at the birds I'd seen. The Winter Wren in Sibley looked really strange when compared to the Collins."

perhaps that's because the of all the various geographical variations Sibley shows none are the same as any of the Winter Wren's in Europe.

MV

[Grousemore]

I agree with Malvolio about the National Geographic Guide being inferior and have always preferred the Peterson Guide for the field,with the Sibley in the car/back at home for later study.
At WWT recently they had the new smaller Sibley field guides and a quick perusal looked encouraging.Will no doubt get them on my next trip to the USA.

[Edward]

More on the Pizzey/Knight v Morecombe. Firstly, Tannin's totally right when he says that the layout in Morecombe is the shape of things to come. The plates are annotated (as in Collins Bird Guide) which draws your attention to certain ID features. I have never said that the nest sections was not of interest to me. Far from it, but as I don't live in Australia then they are of far more interest to Tannin! The Pizzey/Knight doesn't have the annotations but the text is excellent (see Tannin's exquisite quote on the Flock Bronzewing in another thread). Sad that Graham Pizzey has died and of course there will be no updated edition. My preference for Pizzey is based on Frank Knight's illustrations which, although not annotated, are far better than Morecombe's. I had a good look at both books last night. Some illustrations in the Morecombe look excellent, especially those of my favourite of all bird families anywhere in the world, i.e Maluridae, Fairy-Wrens, Emu-Wrens and Grass-Wrens, but the "less good ones" are real shockers (Northern Shoveler, Song Thrush, most of the albatrosses to name a few - I remember reading one Australian review which complained that the Spotted Quail-thrush looked more like a lizard in this book). However, I've never used Morecombe in the field and Tannin has infinitely more experience than me of Australian birds (although I admit to having a real passion for Australian birds after one six-week visit and five years of going through Pizzey and Knight and Morecombe ever since).
Buy either or both and enter the fabulous world of Fairy-wrens, Logrunner and Chowchilla, Currawongs, Honeyeaters and the rest!

By the way, Tannin, do you know the Australian mammal guide illustrated by Frank Knight? I was thinking of buying that some time. Any good? Love the Musk Duck avatar by the way!

E

[cspratt]

I have the two Sibley field guides. Much easier to carry than the larger Sibley's. Can carry either one in the back pocket.

I also like the Kaufmann.

The Stokes "Field Guide to Birds" is nice but rather big to carry in a pocket. It comes in east and west versions.

Chris. Spratt

[pduxon]

Originally posted by Malvolio
perhaps that's because the of all the various geographical variations Sibley shows none are the same as any of the Winter Wren's in Europe.

MV

well no doubt you're right :t: its just that the nat geo trogy trogy looked more like I was used to.

Well got to pack for trip to Dorset. I want all of you to mentally tell all the Dartford Warbler's to be nice and showy!!

[Tannin]

Edward, I suspect that maybe Michael Morecombe is most familiar with the same temperate forest and woodland birds that I usually see (the wrens are an example), as I have rarely found a problem with his illustrations. Perhaps, when I get to travel more widely, I'll see them differently. As I understand it, he was a photographer with an enormous collection who decided to learn to paint simply in order to do his guide. If that's so, then it is an incredible achievement, flaws notwithstanding.

Stand by for warmer weather down here, Edward: I'm keen to get lots of wren pictures, which I'll post here, of course.

I have Menkhorst and Knight's A field guide to the Mammals of Australia, and perhaps I'll comment on it at greater length in another thread, but the short version is "sure, buy and enjoy". But if you are interested in Australian mammals and don't mind spending a bit, Ronald Strahan's Mammals of Australia is simply superb. It's not a field guide, it's a hardback weighing about 2 or 3kg, so it's strictly an armchair book, but it is the Australian mammologist's bible and you will have many very happy evenings by the fire with it. Simply wonderful. It should cost about US$60 by rights. (My copy was AU$115.)

Keep your eye on the gallery: I'll post my avatar duck for you tonight: he is a real cutie.

[Charles Harper]

I confess: it was I who had no use for the nest section of Morecombe. Because I didn't see any nests. I have never seen enough nests to warrant a nest section in any FIELD guide. Nests don't fly away: you can sketch 'em, photograph 'em, even collect 'em after the young have fledged.

Pete, your remark just seemed a little incongruous preceded by all those in-depth discussions by Tannin, Edward, et. al. I really like Bev's idea if you can-- try the libraries if possible, or get to a good bookstore and spend some quality time thumbing and thinking. It indeed is a personal choice in the end. I still go back to my Richard Pough N.A, guides when I really need him.

[MikeMules]

On the Australian Field Guides, I've used Pizzey & Knight in the Field since 1996 (during my honours year, as the Slater, Slater & Slater was not comprehensive enough) and the Morecombe since it came out in around 2000.

Pizzey & Knight is an excellent field guide, and while it lacks the in-plate text of Morecombe and a few other features, its simple layout and uniformly high quality of illustrations (not to mention the text - the level of behavioural and non-plumage identification information is something else) make it my first choice for beginners and for myself.

I enjoy using the Morecombe, mostly because I know what the birds are meant to look like. Many illustrations are too cartoony, and some such as the aforementioned Quail-thrush and (of all birds) the Feral Pigeon are unrecognisable. It makes a good field guide, but as a book for someone outside the country to use to learn what our birds look like, I would not recommend it.

Also around is the Slater, Slater & Slater, which is taxonomically out of date, but has some stunning illustrations. Peter Slater is one of the foremost Australian bird/wildlife illustrators. The book also fits easily into the pocket, but suffers from a lack of alternate plumage illustrations or extensive text.

Simpson & Day has very good, "artistic" drawings, and very brief text. There is apparently a new edition coming out in this year, which I will buy as soon as possible. I have used earlier editions since the late 1980s and it is a very good field guide, even if it does try to cram too many species onto each plate.

As to nests and eggs, I have been tempted to cut out the nest/family information out of my field guides to cut down on bulk and weight! The Slater has the only accurate drawings of eggs of any of the field guides; in my opinion, Morecombe's eggs often are only good to get down to family or genus.

[MikeMules]

PS: Tannin, I like your Musk Duck avatar!

[pduxon]

Originally posted by Beverlybaynes
Do public libraries in England carry guides? I like to suggest that people go check out various guides and give them some trial runs before buying. While you won't be able to test your ID skills on American birds while still in England, at least you can get a feel for the formats and how well it works for you before shelling out the bucks.

I was looking at a number of guides on an RSPB reserve the other day. Just excuse me whilst I sit in the corner and drool!!!

[Lewis]

My wife has a Nat'l Geo guide that she says she prefers over Peterson's Western Birds. I much prefer the Peterson's over Nat'l Geo. I did purchase the Sibley Western Birds guide and now favor this over Peterson's. The quality of the plates are far superior to Peterson's, and, just at important, there are a greater variety of images presented for each species.

For instance, on our hike into Desolation Wilderness this past weekend, I took along Peterson's because it is already quite weathered and because it is slightly smaller and easier to carry. We witnessed common nighthawks for the first time: Peterson's presented exactly two images of this bird; when we got home and I looked it up in the Sibley Western Birds guide, I found 9 images for this species. I might prefer Peterson's text accounts over Sibley's...

[Tero]

Morning, Pete!

I'd certainly recommend the National Geographic guide for the US, as it's my personal favorite. I'm still using the 3rd edition, which I purchased several years ago, but there is a 4th edition which became available within the last year.

Good format, good illustrations, and covers the entire country in one book.

Sibley is, of course, a superb guide, but it's bigger and heavier. There are new Sibleys out now, though, smaller and divided into Eastern and Western guides. I've not yet given them a look.

The one I would NOT recommend for anyone coming to the US are the Audubon guides -- not that they don't have good information, but the format is awkward: males and females are not together, species accounts and range maps (small) are separate from the photos, etc. Their size, tho, is a big advantage.

Lots of other good guides for the US, too: Peterson's, Kaufmann, Golden Book. It's all a personal choice.

Beverly, I have a few North America books, but I do like the National Geographic one at times. The fact that it covers the whole country is a plus, but it also has more Mexican birds that have ranges just South of the US, such as Flycathers, hummingbirds and tropical birds, makes it interesting to leaf thru. I have no Mexico trip plans right now. The Peterson Mexico book I leafed thru has no maps.

As far as region books go, I have 2 Stan Tekiela books for nearby areas, as they have tiny county by county maps of the state. They are in no way complete, but are small to carry. Tekiela's organization is useless to me and most of us here.

[Tim Allwood]

Steven Hilty's Birds of Colombia - for me it is without doubt the best field guide ever written

[Tim Allwood]

Asiawise

Tim Inskipp et al's Birds of the Indian Subcontinent is superb as is Craig Robson's Field Guide to Birds of South East Asia
Indonesia is a bit lacking at the moment as Birds of Sumatra,Java and Borneo and Birds of China are not really top standard. Wallacea does have David Bishop's guide though which is very useful

Used Steve Howell's Mexico guide recently which is fantastic and I'm sure Dave Smith will back me up on this one.......

New guides on the way for China, and Peru by Schulenberg promise to be the business though.......

[Dave B Smith]

Yes Tim, I fully agree, Steve Howell's guide is the best for Mexico. Peterson's Mexico book has slightly better illustrations but does not include ANY of the US birds that are also found here (60% of all the birds here), so you would need his Eastern and Western US books as well. Also his descriptions pale in comparison to Howell's.

For Costa Rica, it's 'A Guide to the Birds of Costa Rica' by Stiles and Skutch. Its great!

[Swissboy]

Pete, don't get tempted to purchase until you're ready to go there-- you'll end up with a book that is outdated and superseded. New and better guides are coming out each year, for all areas of the glove, and this year's wonderbook may be on the remainder shelf before long.

That is the one side. I already bought the fourth National Geographic US book because they changed names, splitted or lumped species. But on the other hand, I use those books to prepare my trips.

More importantly, though, if you plan to go to some more remote area, the field guide you need may be out of print when you need it. An English version of a guide for Japan is a particular example, even for a not so remote area!

Robert

[Swissboy]

Asiawise

Tim Inskipp et al's Birds of the Indian Subcontinent is superb as is Craig Robson's Field Guide to Birds of South East Asia
Indonesia is a bit lacking at the moment as Birds of Sumatra,Java and Borneo and Birds of China are not really top standard. Wallacea does have David Bishop's guide though which is very useful

Used Steve Howell's Mexico guide recently which is fantastic and I'm sure Dave Smith will back me up on this one.......

New guides on the way for China, and Peru by Schulenberg promise to be the business though.......

A new book for Peru in the offing? That would be great, as the only book that is available now has been very disappointing.

Nobody has discussed any books on Africa here, so far. My overall favorite among the African bird guides is Birds of East Africa by Stevenson and Fanshawe. But the new Birds of Africa south of the Sahara by Sinclair and Ryan provides the best overview. Its pictures are a mixed bag of old illustrations from other field guides plus new ones. That seems to have been the most economical shortterm solution. But it also leaves room for improvements and thus more sales.

Swissboy

[Gorgon]

As a follow up on the Australian Guides - I still lug my Pizzey and Doyle from the early 80's - terrible pictures, but the information is still the most comprehensive of any guide (though some maps are well out of date). I also carry a copy of Simpson & Day, which has by far the best illustrations but very limited text.

I have Pizzey and Knight at home, which is quite a nice book (and just reprinted with additional editing by Peter Menkhorst), but I usually check specific details in HANZAB (though a bit big to carry around).

A recent survey run through Birding-Aus showed that Slater is the most popular field guide (which has also just been reprinted) but I don't own this book as I hate the pictures and it has very little information. I reckon it only popular because it is also the lightest.

I also don't own Morcombe, because as an artist he makes a great photographer. The style may be great and the way to, but the pictures are truly awful and colours are as well (though this may be a printing problem). Every time I look at my father's copy, I have to put it down and I would pity anyone trying to learn Australian birds based on these illustrations.

So my recommendatiosn: Visiting Australia and unfamilar with the birds - Pizzey & Knight, keen to just see what Australian Birdos are talking about (and not trying to actually identify them) - Simpson & Day.

Cheers,
Peter