buying my first binocs

[Storm21]

I was on walmart's site and saw these:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2153038

I wanna know what you guys think of em! (I almost died when I saw em)

I know theyre cheap, but I dont have much money and Im trying to save for a trip to Rio De Janeiro with my bf come December.....

[AlanFrench]

I was on walmart's site and saw these:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2153038

I wanna know what you guys think of em! (I almost died when I saw em)

I know theyre cheap, but I dont have much money and Im trying to save for a trip to Rio De Janeiro with my bf come December.....

Are you looking for a binocular, or do you really want something that doubles as a camera too? I had a more expensive pair of binoculars with a built in digitial camera that I won as a door prize, and neither the camera nor the binocular were very good.

If you are mostly interested in a binocular for looking at birds and such, there are some nice ones available for just a little more. One example is the Eagle Optics Triumph 8x25s. See the link below
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=3360

Eagle Optics has a 30 day guarantee, so you can send them back if you don't like them.

I only singled these out because I have a pair and think they are very nice for the price. I am sure other folks will have some other good suggestions.

Clear skies, Alan

[Tero]

Recommend lower end Bushnell, if you want that style, roof prism, but slightly above the level of those 10x25 you showed:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/busbinsal.html
there, look for a price you can afford, we can give more hints then.
This may start to be useable
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-excursion-8x32-binocular-240832.html
some people have tried the Trophy
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bustrop8xwat.html
I really don't remember it well.

If you have a sports store, they should have some similar models. And forget the camera part, they really don't work well.

The one Alan showed is OK, they are called reverse porros. Most stores carry just one or two, maybe a Nikon Travelite 8x25 at your local store.

[MacGee]

0.35 megapixel camera
Plenty of resolution for small, quality photosIf they're the size of a postage stamp, or less.

Michael.

[eliaszuniga]

I was on walmart's site and saw these:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2153038

I wanna know what you guys think of em! (I almost died when I saw em)

I know theyre cheap, but I dont have much money and Im trying to save for a trip to Rio De Janeiro with my bf come December.....

Sorry, Storm, the technology just isn't there yet with respect to binocular/camera combos. Especially at that price point, you will just get a piece of plastic that is neither a usable binocular nor camera. If the Eagle Optics Triumph is too much for you, you may want to try an 8X compact Nikon Sportstar, also available from Eagle Optics, for around $25 less.
Good Luck

[Storm21]

Im really only going to be using em for backyard birding, so I dont mind if theyre not high-powered or anyhting. I want something compact and -cheap- (cheap to me is $50 or less, anything over that is not an option right now). I was looking at the Bushnell site, and I like the looks of some of these binocs: http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-powerview-line-binoculars.html

Compact, cheap, sounds like good quality...

btw, what do Eye Relief and Exit Pupil mean?

[kmiernik]

In range of 50$ you just can't get anything with roof prisms with resonable and acceptable quality. Do NOT buy any cheap 8x20 or 10x25 rubbish binoculars unless you won't to throw away 50$. You won't identify or clearly see any bird even in backyard or garden.

I reccomend you Nikon Action VII 7x35. You'll buy them for 60$ and they're something perfect for begginers. Magnification 7x is enough for close range birdwatching and you'll get very bright and clear image due to Porro prisms system. Later on you'll keep them as secondary binoculars to carry them all around.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-7x35-action.html

One more advice: go somewhere and compare any of those 10x25 with Nikon 7x35.

[alfredotod]

I agree with the previous poster, if you want a cheap binocular avoid roof prisms, they simply cannot be good. Also avoid very small binoculars like 8x20, 10x25 and so on; I had a Nikon 10x21 and it was really usable only in very bright light. So I would go for a 7x35 or 8x30 or 8x40, at least.
I don't know if you wear eyeglasses, but this is a VERY important point. I wear glasses AND I have astigmatism, this means that a binocular without sufficient eye relief for use with glasses is basically useless for me.
I would also recommend the Nikon Action series, they are very good for the price! However if you need to use them with glasses, and want waterproof binoculars, then you should choose the Nikon Action EX, they are still cheap but more expensive that the regular Actions, they are perfect for eyeglass wearers and are waterproof. Moreover they have a metal body which look more robust. Recently I purchased a Nikon Action EX 8x40 as a second binocular, and frankly I was surprised by its quality!
Of course it is not perfect, the outer part of the image is not sharp, and in this it differs from more expensive binos; but the image is very bright, and very sharp in the center, which is mostly important for birdwatching. Moreover it has a very wide FOV, which I find useful. I don't think that for the price you can find anything better.

In range of 50$ you just can't get anything with roof prisms with resonable and acceptable quality. Do NOT buy any cheap 8x20 or 10x25 rubbish binoculars unless you won't to throw away 50$. You won't identify or clearly see any bird even in backyard or garden.

I reccomend you Nikon Action VII 7x35. You'll buy them for 60$ and they're something perfect for begginers. Magnification 7x is enough for close range birdwatching and you'll get very bright and clear image due to Porro prisms system. Later on you'll keep them as secondary binoculars to carry them all around.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-7x35-action.html

One more advice: go somewhere and compare any of those 10x25 with Nikon 7x35.

[scampo]

Im really only going to be using em for backyard birding, so I dont mind if theyre not high-powered or anyhting. I want something compact and -cheap- (cheap to me is $50 or less, anything over that is not an option right now). I was looking at the Bushnell site, and I like the looks of some of these binocs: http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-powerview-line-binoculars.html

Compact, cheap, sounds like good quality...

btw, what do Eye Relief and Exit Pupil mean?Eye relief is the distance between the lens and your eye such that you can see the whole view offered by the binoculars. It's important to be able to see the whole view or you will not be happy with the small view seen. The longer the eye relief, the better, as this makes the binoculars more comfortable and easy to use. If you use specs for viewing, the eye relief needs to be even longer (say 18 - 20mm) to account for the extra distance yours spectacle lenses adds to this eye/eyepiece distance. Exit pupil I wouldn't worry over, but a larger exit pupil makes it easier and more comfortable to use the binoculars.

I would - absolutely - go for the Nikon Action VII 7x35. At the price I see you can get them at, they are a genuinely good buy. They offer a bright, wide and sharp view, from a leading world optics company. The cheap compact binoculars you have suggested will offer, in comparison, such a dull and narrow view that it will be difficult to adjust your eyes to them comfortably. This will result, eventually, in them being left permanently in the drawer and not used! The Nikons will prove easy and comfortable to use and will remain a useful buy.

[Tero]

Even as a compromise cheap item, the only Powerview I would use is
Bushnell Powerview 8x42 Porro Prism Binoculars. Wal Mart may have them. So DO not get the 10x or 12x, no good for back yards. We generally don't want power either! Try to stick to 7x or 8x. The Porro type will be better optics. The Bushnell powerview
http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-binoculars-10x25-powerview.html
10x types are dim on cloudy days and mostly blyrry. I have pair, it is in my bike bag for once a year use. :eek!:

I would not go to Wal Mart, find a sports store. They will have Bushnells and Simmons for their cheap end. Get the 7x or 8x porros, the old fahioned kind that are bulky.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/simmons-7x35-prosport-wide-angle-binoculars.html

They will not be great but much better than cheap roof prisms, tht link above. And they will have a wider field of view, you will see the entire flock at the same time.

And no ZOOMS! Promise? They are the worst junk out there.

If you have a Wild Birds store, they have some porros for under a 100. Usually Swift brand or smiliar.

[MacGee]

...And no ZOOMS! Promise? They are the worst junk out there....
I once bought a pair of Tasco 7-20 zooms and they sat in a cupboard for 20 years before going to a charity shop. Mind you, they were in mint condition when they left.

If you're persuaded by the arguments in favour of the Nikon Action, just be sure you're going to be comfortable carrying around that amount of bulk and weight. If not you'll just be getting another pair of Cupboard Binoculars. Cupboard Binoculars are like Dark Matter; they're never seen, but they make up the vast majority of all the binoculars in the universe.

Michael.

[ceasar]

If not you'll just be getting another pair of Cupboard Binoculars. Cupboard Binoculars are like Dark Matter; they're never seen, but they make up the vast majority of all the binoculars in the universe.

Michael.

Well said! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Bob

[Storm21]

Some of those (like the Nikons) look good. I do wear eyeglasses though. And I really dont want anything bulky. When I was younger, my uncle gave me an old pair of binocs. I believe they were standard size, and they were heavy! My arms and hands started shaking after a few minutes from trying to hold em up and hanging em around my neck gave me a headache, thats why I want something compact.

We only have two sporting goods stores I know of, Dicks Sporting Goods and Gander Mountain. I went to Gander's website, but I couldnt find anything (seriously... they dont have any merchandise online what-so-ever).

Too bad Dick's doesnt list Eye Relief on thier descriptions....
Maybe I'll hop on over to the nearest store Friday (my day off) and see what they have.

[Tero]

Dick's carries Nikons and Bushnells and SImmons. Try the Nikon Action 7x35, they are not that heavy. My store has them in plastic and no display item. They sell a lot of 10x, for hunters, so the selection is a bit limited for 8x and 7x.

The only light casual viewing 8x25 roof prism I would recommend at all, if weight is tha main issue, is Nikon Sportstar 8x25. DO NOT buy the 10x version they usually have at Dick's. The 8x is not too blurry and FOV is great. I got a pair for my wife where size was issue one, optics #2 issue. They do have screw out eye cups which you leave twisted in for glasses, price 50-70 dollars.

[scampo]

I once bought a pair of Tasco 7-20 zooms and they sat in a cupboard for 20 years before going to a charity shop. Mind you, they were in mint condition when they left.

If you're persuaded by the arguments in favour of the Nikon Action, just be sure you're going to be comfortable carrying around that amount of bulk and weight. If not you'll just be getting another pair of Cupboard Binoculars. Cupboard Binoculars are like Dark Matter; they're never seen, but they make up the vast majority of all the binoculars in the universe.

Michael.For that kind of money I doubt there's anything else that is lighter in weight that is worth using. The Nikons will offer a useful, bright and clear view of whatever is being looked at; the other bins wouldn't even do this, so would definitely end up in a cupboard. They do only weigh 690g - is that heavy?

[ksbird/foxranch]

The other responders are correct that the $45 binocular-camera is pretty bad. But this binocular is surprisingly reasonable for $23 + shipping. It is the 10x42 Bushnell Sportsman. It isn't phase coated or even fully multicoated, but I looked thru a demo unit outdoors at WalMArts (for $29 + tax), and I couldn't believe they only cost $32 including all taxes. We have finished the major bird watching season here and we don't need any more "lose-able/dunk-able" binoculars right now, but if they are around in March '07 we may get a few as throw aways (the Olympus 7x & 8x Troopers for $18/23 + $5 shipping are pretty astounding values, but I still get upset when they get damaged or dunked because in spite of their cheapness they are nice binoculars). Here is the WM website link

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4324523

Also under $45 is the 10x50 Bushnell Falcon

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2653077

although the 10x50 Nikon Action for $78 would seem a better deal in the long run (although I still can't figure out how Bushnell makes a decent 10x42 that sells for $23). If you lose a really inexpensive binocular for $23 in Rio you won't feel really bad. Have fun

I was on walmart's site and saw these:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2153038

I wanna know what you guys think of em! (I almost died when I saw em)

I know theyre cheap, but I dont have much money and Im trying to save for a trip to Rio De Janeiro with my bf come December.....

[Tero]

The 10x42 Bushnell Sportsman is actually not really bad, but the better idea would have been to make them 8x, as now they are obviously a bit dim. At 8x they would have been OK. They are curiously not really sharp but not disturbingly bad even at the edge.

[scampo]

...(although I still can't figure out how Bushnell makes a decent 10x42 that sells for $23).
Near slave labour wages paid to Chinese workers, I expect...

)-:

[Otto McDiesel]

decent 10x42 that sells for $23

Decent, sure, and i am Napoleon.

[Otto McDiesel]

The 10x42 Bushnell Sportsman is actually not really bad,

It is really bad. For $30 i would get a bottle of really good wine, rather than bad binoculars.

After a good wine i would be happy imagining beautiful birds as opposed to being unhappy struggling to see them through dismal binoculars.
B (:

[ceasar]

I still can't figure out how Bushnell makes a decent 10x42 that sells for $23). If you lose a really inexpensive binocular for $23 in Rio you won't feel really bad. Have fun

They can't! Certainly not consistently! Occasionally they get lucky with a few, but most are junk with guaranteed profit for the retailer because the people who buy them don't know what a good binocular is, and they won't bother to return it!

Why ruin a trip to Rio with a chintzy binocular? Spend 50 bucks or so more and get the Nikons or even Leupold's classy new 6 x 30 Yosemites which in addition to being small, lightweight and attractive are waterproof and built like a tank. You can get them from Eagle for 99.00, which includes shipping. They are bright enough to enjoy the Rio nightlife with and 6x is plenty of power for a general purpose binocular. Besides, you'll be able to take them on your next 10 trips also. See Andrew Bright's review of them under small binoculars and other reviews in the Leupold thread.
Cordially,
Bob

[Tero]

Well, in comparison, the Wal Mart 10x25 Bushnell roof prisms ARE really bad. The Sportsman is just slightly on the poor side. Or maybe slightly better than bad.

Happy birding, with whatever you have. I have these Sportsmans, I give them to my kids. They see an eagle, look with bins, see a BIGGER EAGLE. Wow.

[FrankD]

I would agree with Bob's suggestion of the Yosemites. For the price they cannot be beat. They are actually lighter in weight and smaller in size than the Actions plus they have excellent image quality.

[kmiernik]

It is really bad. For $30 i would get a bottle of really good wine, rather than bad binoculars.

You could also buy two bottles of wine each for 5$. Drink it and tie empty bottles to each other with some sort of string. Now you'll have "decent binoculars that can not be beaten in their price range" plus 1.5 liter of wine. I'm sure that you'll hardly recognize difference with Busnell's 10x42 for 23$. So why should you pay 13$ more?

PS. Hangover in both cases is for free.

[MacGee]

If you can stretch to $65, you might consider the Olympus PC I 8x25.


Olympus
PC 1 8x25
Reverse Porro Prism

This is an amazing little Porro, well made, bright, and sharp. It did as well as or better than the most expensive binoculars in our optical resolution tests. It offers a close focus of 8.2 feet. At 16.5mm, the eye relief is one of the best, for those who wear glasses as well as those who do not.

The inch-long focus knob is rubberized and textured for an easy grip even to gloved fingers. It hangs well, tending to clasp the wearer's chest rather than bouncing around with each step. It's silver and gray, the gray part of which is a nonslip surface. It also comes in 10x25.There's a chart here (http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/pockets_chart.html).

Michael.

[Tero]

Olympus is a little hard to find here. Bushnell and Nikon and Simmons are the common brands. Swifts at the bird feed stores.
PC III and Roamer look OK, no idea who sells them
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_binoculars.asp

added, one supplier found
http://www.optics4birding.com/olympus-binoculars.html

[Storm21]

Wow, thanks a bunch you guys :) Im so glad I found this place, who knows what kind of junk I would have gotten without all of you giving your input *big grin*

[MacGee]

The PC I is even cheaper from here (http://www.ebinoculars.com/products/Olympus_Tracker_PC_I_8x25_19500.html), though they only have one left.

Michael.

[Tero]

Storm, just go buy something. Dick's will be fine, tell them it is for birding and should be 7x or 8x. Make sure you get to try the pair, a display item. The ones in the plastic package should still be tried with the display item if not the actual pair, people have eye and facial shapes that don't work with all models. Try them with glasses and without. I use glasses mostly with one of my pairs, but three will work. If I am reading a field guide and a new bird comes up, I need to be ready even with my glasses on.

One cheaper Nikon model I forgot to mention is Medallion, 8x, DIcks has had some.

[normjackson]

Assume your bf has got his own binocular? Presume so many nice things to see in Rio 8-P

[Tero]

Storm, did you get some binoculars? I looked at some cheap Simmons models. For 7x, I did not get to see them, only the Actions, now $70 at Dick's. Those would be my first choice for you, then 8x Actions or Simmons. I just posted in anothe thread:
There is a sports store in our mall, and they had some Simmons 8x and 10x out. The ProSport models are much improved from their previous stuff. I do not have any Bushnells with the rocker focus, that they sell at discount stores, but I would say this lineup is slightly better. The 10x model on display was better than the 8x on display, but the 8x display model did not match the one in the plastic package. Close focus on the 10x was about 20ft. I guess they put some effort into this as the hunters buy most of the 10x.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/simmons-pro-sport-10x50-wa-binoculars.html

The 10x are harder for birding than 8x or 7x. Do not buy the Simmons roof prisms, though.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/simmons-waterproof-binoculars-wilderness-8x32.html

Well, even those are better than no binocular, but the porros, this last link, are better at under $100.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/simmons-prosport-8x40-binoculars.html

[Storm21]

yeah, I got a pair :) Bought em from Amazon.com. theyre 16x32 (a bit high, I realize), but they work great. Nice and compact, and only $20. I really like em :) Now to get a digital camera... (that might have to wait for X-mas tho *lol*). They did spot an unknown bird for me :D (later identified as a yellow-billed cuckoo). So yeah, theyre workin out for me.

[Tero]

I am guessing that they are Meade or Celsestron roof prisms. Well, those work for the back yard, as long as you can rest your elbows on something. If you get into more hiking with binoculars, you may move up to some others later on. Good luck on winter birding, it is much easier once the leaves are gone.