hard drives?

[postcardcv]

well it seems I may have finally been converted to using RAW... took long enough. Only two days in but one thing that is instantly obvious to me is that I'm gonna need more memory, so today I started looking at external hard drives.

I was originally planning to buy a really big one (400gb+) but am now considering buying two ~200gb ones so I can duplicating everything as a back up.

So a few questions:
Is it worth storing everything twice?
Are any makes better/more reliable than the rest?
Where's eth best place to buy from?

[Roy C]

I am also thinking about an external hard drive for backing up my on board hard drive. The prices of these devices are really dropping and you can buy 200gb drives for as little as £50-£60 but like postcardcv I would also like to know a few things like
Are any makes better/more reliable than the rest?
Where's eth best place to buy from?

[baillieswells]

I am also thinking about an external hard drive for backing up my on board hard drive. The prices of these devices are really dropping and you can buy 200gb drives for as little as £50-£60 but like postcardcv I would also like to know a few things like
Are any makes better/more reliable than the rest?
Where's eth best place to buy from?

LaCie and Maxtor are two of the most popular makes. The important thing to remember is that RAW files can take up to 15MB space, so it is absolutely essential to have a firewire connection from your computer and from your card reader to download your images otherwise the time taken to download will be enormous.

[Roy C]

LaCie and Maxtor are two of the most popular makes. The important thing to remember is that RAW files can take up to 15MB space, so it is absolutely essential to have a firewire connection from your computer and from your card reader to download your images otherwise the time taken to download will be enormous.

When you say it is essential to have a firewire connection from the card reader to download images I would say that 99% of people download via a USB2 card reader. I cannot see that the size of a RAW file makes any difference - I am talking about backing up my entire hard drive and say150 gb of data is 150 gb if it is RAW files or Word documents
I am not an expert but from what I read firewire 400 (IEEE 1394) is not as fast as high speed USB2 (400 Mbps v 480 MBps). The new FireWire 800 (IEEE1394b) is faster (800 Mbps).

[baillieswells]

When you say it is essential to have a firewire connection from the card reader to download images I would say that 99% of people download via a USB2 card reader. I cannot see that the size of a RAW file makes any difference - I am talking about backing up my entire hard drive and say150 gb of data is 150 gb if it is RAW files or Word documents
I am not an expert but from what I read firewire 400 (IEEE 1394) is not as fast as high speed USB2 (400 Mbps v 480 MBps). The new FireWire 800 (IEEE1394b) is faster (800 Mbps).

Sorry, I meant firewire 800.Yes 150 GB is 150 GB. I was thinking in terms of compact flash cards. Whereas just using JPEG a two week holiday would involve something like 2-3 GB to download, taking RAW plus JPEG I now have to download 8GB, which takes nearly three times as long.

[Hottentot]

well it seems I may have finally been converted to using RAW... took long enough. Only two days in but one thing that is instantly obvious to me is that I'm gonna need more memory, so today I started looking at external hard drives.

I was originally planning to buy a really big one (400gb+) but am now considering buying two ~200gb ones so I can duplicating everything as a back up.

So a few questions:
Is it worth storing everything twice?
Are any makes better/more reliable than the rest?
Where's eth best place to buy from?

Its worth storing everything at least twice, I use two internal hard drives and and one external USB hard drive.
You can buy enterprise level hard drives but they are expensive, its more cost effective to go for three back-ups on separate drives.
I buy from scan.co.uk as they have an excellent reputation.

Just a small note, USB hard drives are pretty slow compared to internal drives but are worth the effort as you can physically remove them and put them in a safe place for peace of mind.

[davebenj]

....When one drive is full- connect another....

Or you could use one of these:

http://www.dcs-online.biz/shop/product_info.php/cPath/93_77/products_id/5471

(Its neater)

[gmax]

I am not an expert but from what I read firewire 400 (IEEE 1394) is not as fast as high speed USB2 (400 Mbps v 480 MBps). The new FireWire 800 (IEEE1394b) is faster (800 Mbps).

I have an external 300Gb hard drive, connected through a firewire port: I find this the best solution since it does not get in conflict with other equipment using simultaneously the other USB 2.0 ports in my PC, so the dataflow max speed has not to be shared among them (if you are using a hub for example). Furthermore it's safer since you can store it in a different place, you can unplug it and avoid power shortcircuits
While downloading a 2Gb card I compared the relative speed of firewire and USB 2.0 and firewire is noticeably faster ...
What you'll surely need when shooting in RAW and are in the field are spare CF cards: I use a fast 2GB + a 512Mb and I'm thinking to upgrade ... a RAW file is heavy and my main card is full after ca. 220 shots. When I download it to the FlashTrax it takes ca. 15 min and in 15 minutes a 512Mb card may not be enough ...
As for the makes, it's not so important the case as the drive .. I use a Maxtor 7200rpm and it's fast, silent and has never left me down (touch wood) ... I'd suggest downloading the cards to the hard drive, then backing up files to a DVD, two copies are enough ... in case, burn periodically also your best shots
One thing is certain: shooting RAW is MORE expensive all in all :-C
Regards,
Max

[Roy C]

Furthermore it's safer since you can store it in a different place, you can unplug it and avoid power shortcircuits
Same goes with external USB2 drive doesn't it ?

When I download it to the FlashTrax it takes ca. 15 min and in 15 minutes a 512Mb card may not be enough ...
Sorry I do not understand this, are you saying it takes you 15 minutes to download 2gb of data? if so that it sloooooooooow!

p.s I have been shooting in RAW for a year or so now and have no issues with uploading from card reader to PC (a full 1gb card takes just under two minutes- which is quick enough for me) I also back up my image files to dvd every week.
What I am after is a external hard drive to back up the whole of my internal hard drive - even if this takes several hours this will not be an issue.

[James Eaton]

I use a 250GB hard-drive to keep everything I have. I then keep all my better photographs back-up on DVD's and a select few on the computers hard-drive.

Shops worth looking at include Amazon.co.uk (250GB at under £70), dabs.com, also try going to the shop search engines, ie kelkoo.co.uk or froogle.co.uk to search for the cheapest around. I have a freecom one (from amazon), works fine. The only irritable thing is that is is AC powered, not USB powered, reduces the cost slightly.

[gmax]

Sorry I do not understand this, are you saying it takes you 15 minutes to download 2gb of data? if so that it sloooooooooow!

Well, yes, that's the speed of my FlashTrax .. this drive is not intended solely to download pictures from a CF card, it's a jpg viewer and an MP3 player I use for bird calls, it's a combo, it does not excel in any skill but it's good enough compromise when you are out in the field ... at home my card reader takes less than two minutes to download a full 2Gb card to my PC, I wish the other one had the same speed ;)

[alan_rymer]

If you have a network, and the money, you could try one of these:.
http://www.staples.co.uk/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=,&webid=4m396&affixedcode=WW

250GB network drive, £170.

£150 if you search on the web.

[Saphire]

If you have a network, and the money, you could try one of these:.
http://www.staples.co.uk/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=,&webid=4m396&affixedcode=WW

250GB network drive, £170.

Alan thats rather steep I bought two similar ones from aldi for £89 each

[alan_rymer]

Alan thats rather steep I bought two similar ones from aldi for £89 each
Its just something I saw in a Sunday freebie mag, and thought it a good idea.
Done a very expensive way on business networks. But an easy and reasonably cheap way to back up.
Unfortunatly, no Aldis down south!.

[Keith Reeder]

There's an Aldi in Reading, Alan...

Have a look here: http://tinyurl.com/qmexy

[Saphire]

I just had a look in the staples mag I got this morning they have a 250gb for 77.99 before Vat. Don't know what the diference is.

[alan_rymer]

I just had a look in the staples mag I got this morning they have a 250gb for 77.99 before Vat. Don't know what the diference is.
Just a bare drive!

[alan_rymer]

There's an Aldi in Reading, Alan...

Have a look here: http://tinyurl.com/qmexy
Well I'll go to foot of our stairs!.
Thanks Keith.

Wrong again!.:eek!:

[Saphire]

Just a bare drive!

It isn't a bare drive, I was surprised. Its a freecom External 3.5" Hard drive 2. usb 2.
Cat No 6B-385 074

[Roy C]

Just a bare drive!
Not sure what you mean by this Alan. PC world have lots of external hard drives around the £60-£70 mark are these 'bare drives' or do you think they would be ok for back ups.

[dbradnum]

[from the name of the thread, I thought this would be about a high-speed trip along the A149 from Burnham Overy to Weybourne to see an Eye-browed Thrush in 30 minutes of remaining daylight.... never mind ;)]

[Mickymouse]

Post card
The computer buffs will cringe !! - but - this is what I do. Go to
a computer fair and get a load of old well - not that old - hard drives. If you have two cd drives- most computers have, - take one out. If you have a dvd drive you don't need the cd drive anyway. Bring the IDE cable and power cable outside your computer. Oh dear !! you have to take the side off. Connect your newly acquired hard dives ( with the jumpers set to "slave" ) and then copy stuff to there. When one drive is full- connect another.
Cheers
JohnRThat's what I shall do when I get my new set up, except I wouldn't trust iffy drives from a fair.

Mick

[HappyFish]

Go look at the Epsion P-2000 or the Epsion P-4000. You can see and share and blow way up and edit out the junk fast making more room for the good stuff. Shoot a small j-peg along with your raw. The Epsion will only enlarge the J-peg but that will work just fine out and about. This is a favorite toy of mine.

[Leif]

Computer fairs always seem a bit pricey to me except for media. PC World are convenient but expensive.

Try www.savastore.com. Prices are low, and they have a huge range, although after sales service is said to be poor. I bought a Lacie 250GB ext HDD from them and it works fine. The one big disadvantage is that I have yet another power supply to plug in, as the Lacie needs external power. It comes with basic backup software, that allows me to select which folders to save.

As someone else suggested, you could buy a HD caddy and insert it in one of the optical drive bays (removing a CD/DVD player if need be). Then you just buy internal hard drives to fit the caddy. In the long run this is cheaper. But you will need to buy separate backup software. There is some free stuff available, and it works, but is not especially elegant.

[stanacko]

Computer fairs always seem a bit pricey to me except for media. PC World are convenient but expensive.

Try www.savastore.com. Prices are low, and they have a huge range, although after sales service is said to be poor. I bought a Lacie 250GB ext HDD from them and it works fine. The one big disadvantage is that I have yet another power supply to plug in, as the Lacie needs external power. It comes with basic backup software, that allows me to select which folders to save.

As someone else suggested, you could buy a HD caddy and insert it in one of the optical drive bays (removing a CD/DVD player if need be). Then you just buy internal hard drives to fit the caddy. In the long run this is cheaper. But you will need to buy separate backup software. There is some free stuff available, and it works, but is not especially elegant.

Hi Leif,
Why do you need backup software, I went to a pc fair bought an external case and hard drive and I just save my photos to a folder which I date and then send the folder over to my external H/drive I,ve been doing this for about 18 months with no problems.I forgot to mention I only send them to my external H/Drive when I have finished processing the photos,and I only switch my ex on when I want to view or have some photos to transfer.
Regards.
Stan.

[Leif]

Hi Leif,
Why do you need backup software, I went to a pc fair bought an external case and hard drive and I just save my photos to a folder which I date and then send the folder over to my external H/drive I,ve been doing this for about 18 months with no problems.I forgot to mention I only send them to my external H/Drive when I have finished processing the photos,and I only switch my ex on when I want to view or have some photos to transfer.
Regards.
Stan.

Hello Stan: Why? Because I find it tedious having to manually copy data across. I have a lot of folders that potentially change, including email archive, personal settings, documents, photos and so on. I do admit though that I only perform the full backup occasionally, and often just copy across the most recently added image folder, on the grounds that the full backup takes an hour and ties up the CPU.

Leif

[stanacko]

Hello Stan: Why? Because I find it tedious having to manually copy data across. I have a lot of folders that potentially change, including email archive, personal settings, documents, photos and so on. I do admit though that I only perform the full backup occasionally, and often just copy across the most recently added image folder, on the grounds that the full backup takes an hour and ties up the CPU.

Leif

Hi Leif,
Yes I understand now that,s why I do,nt let mine build up I transfer the photo,s every time I take some. Regards.
Stan.

[postcardcv]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I have stuck with the idea of an external one, I don't fancy messing around with internal ones and it makes it easier when I change the PC in the future. So I've just ordered 2x250GB externals for £65 each which seemed a decent price to me.

[psilo]

Sounds good to me too Peter, nice one!

btw it takes me 20 minutes to download 3 gig of images from my cf cards :(

[Duke Leto]

Late to the conversation, I back all my photos on an external drive and then every time I have another 5Gb I transfer to a DVD, not sure if this is safer than 2 hard drives. When this 300Gb drive is full I'll remove it for storage and start a new one but still hard copying to DVD

[Ben M]

Hard disks (and other disks) fail all the time for all sorts of reasons and to varying degrees. I've had a couple of disks fail on me in the past. One was a serious fail of a Maxtor drive and I lost a lot of valuable data (most of it backed up though). I've heard that the Maxtor drives have improved a lot since then (2000ish), but I've since always bought Western Digital. No failures of those, but I'm sure everyone has different stories.

If anyone is really serious about data storage (as I am) they should look into RAID. The idea is that multiple hard disks are combined into one logical hard disk via hardware controllers and so the operating sees one hard disk, but in reality the data is being shared or replicated across multiple disks. Most server machines are using a RAID setup, and this is the standard method for long-term storage of sensitive data.

Description of RAID on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_array_of_independent_disks)
Description of various RAID levels (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/R/RAID.html)
Step-by-step instructions for setting up a RAID array (http://www.pctechguide.com/tutorials/RAID.htm)