Batteries

[Brian Bullough]

I bought some non "Canon" brand batteries as a back up ,they worked fine for sometime although they never lasted as long as the original but now they drain in a very short time and recharge in minute's,I was wondering if they could have build up a memory effect and can I fully discharge them somehow or are they just duff now.
Brian

[Henry B]

Brian, sorry to hear about your battery problem.. I use 7dayshop batteries, and so far have not had any probs.

[Keith Reeder]

Same here, Henry - I've got several "non brand" batteries from 7 Day Shop (for my 30D, and previously for my Nikon D70) without any problems.

[robski]

I have several 7dayshop Canon batteries no problem at all. In fact one of them I've had for nearly 3yrs.

I had a similiar problem with some AA batteries. I blamed the batteries and got new ones. LOL - problem turned out to be the charger and not the batteries.

[Keith Reeder]

Brian,

if they're Li-Ion batteries, memory effect should be somewhere between negligible and non-existent.

Rob makes a good point about the charger though...

[Robert L Jarvis]

Thank you all for putting me onto 7 day Shop. Just ordered 2 batteries for my 300D and cost just £9.99 + p&p for both. Now that strikes me as a bargain. Just compare that price to any other supplier.

Thanks once again, Henry B, Keith and Robski.

[Brian Bullough]

I must say these where not from 7day. the charger works ok for the canon battery so I guess these are now just scrap. I have some on order,the originals last a very long time but you always need spares.
brian

[Brian Bullough]

I must say these where not from 7day. the charger works ok for the canon battery so I guess these are now just scrap. I have some on order,the originals last a very long time but you always need spares.
brian
Just a follow up on this, the dealer on ebay replaced the batteries with no problem.
Brian

[John Gibson2]

Thank you all for putting me onto 7 day Shop. Just ordered 2 batteries for my 300D and cost just £9.99 + p&p for both. Now that strikes me as a bargain. Just compare that price to any other supplier.

Thanks once again, Henry B, Keith and Robski.
Hi Robert,
I've been using a 7dayshop battery for my 20D for a year, and I can't tell the difference between it and the one that came with the camera.
John

[christineredgate]

You need to leave the batteries to totally expire before you re charge.I have been using both Canon and cheapy ones for 4 yrs now,with no problem.I just leave in the cam until exhausted ,and only then do I remove and charge.

[graham catley]

bought a spare compatible battery for the 1DMkII from 7day--£99.99 from Canon £14.99 from 7dayshop and it last just as long on full charge---even if it expires in 2-3 years I can but 6 for the price of one Canon---

[Robert Tilt]

An important point is to charge FULLY and discharge FULLY even `non-memory` Li-ion batteries for the first few times if full capacity is really going to last.
This is very important for laptops etc as well.

For the record - I find my Jessops batteries and Keene batteries are at least as good as the Canon ones.

[Keith Reeder]

Christine, Robert, you absolutely should not discharge li-ion batteries unless you're in a hurry to kill them off.

They have internal monitoring circuitry in them to prevent (among other things) total discharge, and letting them go completely flat can and will damage them, often beyond recovery.

There is any amount of information on the internet about this. One of many sources is Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery) which (in common with just about everyone else) has this to say:


A stand-alone Li-Ion cell must never be discharged below a certain voltage to avoid irreversible damage.

Therefore all systems involving Li-Ion batteries are equipped with a circuit that shuts down the system when the battery is discharged below the predefined threshold.

It should thus be impossible to "deep discharge" the battery in a properly designed system during normal use.

This is also one of the reasons Li-Ion cells are never sold as such to consumers, but only as finished batteries designed to fit a particular system.You'll still find guidance out there suggesting that discharging Li-ions is a good idea, but this thinking is based on what works for Ni-Cads and NiMhs, and it just isn't true for Li-ions - as I say, they're specifically designed with "protection" circuitry built-in to try to prevent total discharge, and forcing the issue will hurt them.

This page (http://www.realshopping.co.uk/exo2/lithium-ion-info.html#chargecharacteristics) explains:

The discharge should be terminated when the cell reaches an end of discharge voltage (EODV) of 3.0V (although the EODV can be as low as 2.7V depending on the application, number of cells, cell type etc).

Failure to terminate discharge can result in the copper of the anode dissolving into the electrolyte leading to permanent damage - It is for this reason that a voltage sensing protection circuit is fitted to prevent over discharge of any one cell

You have been warned!

;) ;) ;)

[Robert Tilt]

I am not referring to short circuiting them.
It still is advisable to fully charge and then discharge in the equipment to the minimum positive voltage for the first couple times. Even Li-ion need conditioning first. AN experiment under controlled conditions has confirmed this - i was suprised how much difference it seemed to make.

After that its OK to use as normal. No memmory problems will arise.


(NiCd are probably not worth bothering with now of course).

[Keith Reeder]

Robert,

you said to fully (sorry: "FULLY" ;)) discharge Li-ions in your post 12, which is pretty unequivocal, and that's what I'm saying not to do because you will knacker the battery.

[Colin Key]

Robert,

you said to fully (sorry: "FULLY" ;)) discharge Li-ions in your post 12, which is pretty unequivocal, and that's what I'm saying not to do because you will knacker the battery.

There is an awful lot of "mystique" (if not downright witchcraft) talked about about modern batteries. I sometimes think it is perpetrated by the manufacturers in order to ensure on-going sales.

Keith is 100% correct regarding Li-ion batteries; they should never be fully discharged unless that is totally unavoidable, and there is no harm whatsoever in topping-up these batteries (whether it is for camera, cell phone, laptop or whatever) every day. The philosophy of "completely empty the basket before you refill it" is wrong here. The more you keep a modern Li-ion battery topped-up, the better (and longer) it will perform.

Swampy

[Chris Galvin]

[QUOTE=Keith Reeder]Christine, Robert, you absolutely should not discharge li-ion batteries unless you're in a hurry to kill them off.

Don't forget that if you fully discharge your batteries whilst shooting, particularly a sequence, then you run the risk of corrupting the files on your flash card and being left with no usable images. ALWAYS change the batteries before they are fully discharged.

[christineredgate]

Gee thanks for the info.It is my hubby,who has the idea that all batteries must be fully discharged before re charging.so I have always adhered to this,and my Canon batteries have lasted for 4 yrs,and the Nikon 4500(which always suddenly switch off in the middle of being used!!!) are still going strong.

[Brian Bullough]

I nearly missed these replies, seems more complicated than I thought.
I have nearly always allowed the battery to run out on my 350D and as Christine wrote the Nikon 4500 just cuts out without warning when the battery expires, if it is so important why have just that very tiny battery symbol on cameras, rather than let's say this blinks to advise battery change
or something similar, otherwise you have to judge how much is left for the shots you are going to take how would you know before hand what is required it could be a couple of shots of a static subject, or suddenly a long burst of a flying owl etc.
Brian

[Duck_Pond]

We use Li-ion batteries at work with the handheld computers we sell, and they only ever need charging up from whatever charge they were left with. We specifically chose them for this purpose, as the industry in which they work demands a fast turnaround and no need to recycle the batteries on a regular basis.

I too have bought some compatible batteries from 7dayshop and they seem as good as the £35 ones from Canon... they're selling a double pack of 350D ones for £10.49 a the moment - bargain!

[stevo]

FWIW I have 2 batteries for my 10D i`ve never fully disharged them before charging & 4yrs on they`re still going strong.

Steve.

[Colin Key]

FWIW I have 2 batteries for my 10D i`ve never fully disharged them before charging & 4yrs on they`re still going strong.

Steve.

Ipso facto!
|:D|

[Keith Reeder]

Well there you go...

[mjmw]

Well there you go...

Shouldn't you people in the UK be asleep or something?

Anyway, I was going to say 'of course you don't need to fully discharge...' then I saw you had already done it. That said, the NiCDs (for example, on the Canon 1D series) do need full discharging every so often to avoid 'charging memory'...

[Keith Reeder]

I'm a stressed out, depressed, anxiety attack-suffering civil servant, Mark - I sleep for about 4 hours on a work night..!

;)

As you say, NiCads need to be fully discharged on occasion, but Li-ion batteries are an entirely different beast.

[mjmw]

I'm a stressed out, depressed, anxiety attack-suffering civil servant, Mark - I sleep for about 4 hours on a work night..!


OK, any question or remark (no matter how TiC) will take this way off topic :) Take some pics and the world will be a better place! but wait till the sun comes up or you will wonder if you removed the lens cap |:D|

[Robert L Jarvis]

I ordered some batteries from 7dayshop on the 6th Nov, took the money from my cc on the 7th. On e week later no sign of the goods, emailed supplier. Reply, must give at least 2 weeks. Two weeks later no sign of batteries so emailed supplier again all I got was a message that they must be on their way and I should check my local sorting office. I replied that it was their responsibilty to ensure delivery and they should trace the goods from their end but in deference I did check and my local office told me that they had not received or held any goods awaiting delivery to me!!

As for my email they took no notice for me suggesting they should trace the goods from their end. Three weeks later still no sign so emailed for a refund, the reply was that I should allow 28 days for delivery if not received by then they a a repeat of the goods would be sent or have my money back.

Simply not good enough, I shall be asking for refund and I will never use them again. Future customers should note that the only means of contacting them is through their automated email system, there is no address or phone number. Shall email them on the 7th for a refund, so will follow up on this story.

On the basis of this performance I cannot recommend this company to Forum members.

[Henry B]

Sorry to hear you are having problems with 7dayshop I,ve used them lots of times with no trouble.

[Robert L Jarvis]

Maybe it was bad luck, but they could have been a bit more positive and helpful on tracing the goods if indeed they had been despatched in the first place. Most other reputable suppliers I am sure would have taken more positive action by sending a replacement especially after 2 weeks with a proviso to return if first goods turn up.

[graham catley]

it does seem strange---I place many orders a year and if anything is out of stock, even if expected in a few days, they have always emailed me straight away to state that no cash would be taken for the OOS item and I could cancel that part of the order if I wished---only once has an OOS item taken longer than two weeks and I cancelled and ordered from another supplier---I have also returned some old CF cards which were faulty after 6 months and had my money refunded straight away so this does sound like an exceptional case in my experience

[Keith Reeder]

OK, any question or remark (no matter how TiC) will take this way off topic :) Take some pics and the world will be a better place! but wait till the sun comes up or you will wonder if you removed the lens cap |:D|;)

Aah, I'll be OK Mark - I'm pathologically optimistic by nature, and that goes a long way to balancing up the dark stuff.

This weekend's a bust though, weather-wise: shame, 'cos I could do with that photography fix!

[Robert L Jarvis]

Graham, what can I can say, nothing more. I have not had a good experience with them and to be told that I should chase round after the Royal Mail was not on, they did nothing at all to ascertain what had gone wrong just sat on their backsides.

[robski]

Like Graham I have used 7dayshop many times and not had any problems. But having said that based on a similar posting about 7dayshop they do seem to have a policy of non action on items lost in the Post. On more expensive items they do use Royal Mail Special Delivery. I am sure that they don't use any certificate of posting system and basically what use would it be if they did.

So if you frequently experience items lost in the post 7dayshop are not the ones for you. Otherwise it's one of the small risks in life you take.

[Colin Key]

If you Google "7dayshop reviews" and read the dire experiences of many of its customers you will realize that you guys who have not had problems with their delivery and customer service are the lucky ones. O.K., I know that it is always the problems that get aired, but they sound to me as though they have a poor track record.

[paul goode]

If you Google "7dayshop reviews" and read the dire experiences of many of its customers you will realize that you guys who have not had problems with their delivery and customer service are the lucky ones. O.K., I know that it is always the problems that get aired, but they sound to me as though they have a poor track record.

Funny old world. I've used 7Dayshop regularly with no problems at all but had big problems with ,ahem, our site sponsors over a memory card which the Royal Mail 'lost'. Warehouse Express made me do the legwork to prove it had been wrongly delivered and signed for.

Paul

[Robert L Jarvis]

It appears that we have all had good and bad experience with suppliers but one thing I can say is that I have never experienced anything untoward with my local post office. In fact this is the first instance of a non delivery in all the time I have lived here.

[Colin Key]

Funny old world. I've used 7Dayshop regularly with no problems at all but had big problems with ,ahem, our site sponsors over a memory card which the Royal Mail 'lost'. Warehouse Express made me do the legwork to prove it had been wrongly delivered and signed for.

Paul

As you say Paul, a Funny Old World. Living outside the U.K. most of the time I rely heavily on internet shopping. I have recently bought a load of stuff from http://www.waltersphotovideo.co.uk/ (partly because they were recommended by Nigel Blake) including a Canon 500mm f/4 L IS lens which was ordered at 1.00 pm one day and arrived via DHL at 11.00 am the following morning.

I have also recently used WE; I have used them before then they stopped delivering outside the U.K. However, I went through the "motions" of an online order with them and, lo and behold, they would send to countries within the E.U. I have found WE always to be first class and the couriers they use are excellent.

But, I have to pay for it - and overnight delivery of the Canon lens by DHL was about £250.

I have never bought from 7dayshop and only just went to their website out of curiosity after reading this thread. My first impression was that their site was very poor and, after discovering (with a bit of searching) that they operate out of Guernsey, I would not touch them with a barge-pole. A bit more digging reveals that their low prices were tax-free and they were exploiting this by not filling-in the "value of merchandise" panel on the customs declaration label. This is criminal, but they were getting away with it for some time until the Post Office sussed them. Single camera batteries, etc. (or anything under the value of £18) were O.K. but for higher value orders they were breaking the law.

You gets what you pays for.

Colin

[postcardcv]

I've only used 7dayshop once and very similar problems to Robert - eventually I did get the item I'd ordered (a camera), but it took much longer than stated. When I tried to contact them to see why there was a delay, they were no help. Their prices are good, but as they don't seem to back it up with good customer service I haven't gone back to them.

[robski]

A bit more digging reveals that their low prices were tax-free and they were exploiting this by not filling-in the "value of merchandise" panel on the customs declaration label. This is criminal, but they were getting away with it for some time until the Post Office sussed them. but for higher value orders they were breaking the law.



Is this a legal requirement if you are paying VAT on Goods over £18 ?

Typically I have never waited much more than a week for delivery (except when they tell me an item is on back order). Most items I buy are under the £18. I've not paid much so I don't expect much in the way of service. For the more expensive items it's probably not worth the hassle.

[Colin Key]

Is this a legal requirement if you are paying VAT on Goods over £18 ?
.

It is a legal requirement to state the nature and value of any goods destined for export to a different tax-paying regime (no, I don't work work for HM Customs and Revenue, but I know someone who does!).

[Robert L Jarvis]

For comparative purposes, ordered a memory card from WE at 11.00 am yesterday Monday 4th December, goods arrived this morning at 7.30am by first class post. Can't argue with that.

[paul goode]

Credit where its due.
I ordered some items from Warehouse Express yesterday morning and they've just arrived (9am) safely by Royal Mail Special Delivery.
Hopefully my previous experience was a one off.

Paul

[Robert L Jarvis]

Ordered a battery from Digital Media Store on Monday, it arrived this morning with the usual post.

[Robert L Jarvis]

Back to 7day shop, the 28 days were up last thursday and no sign of my order. I emailed the supplier and requested a refund. This was duly made and received 2 days later with no quibble or explanation re non delivery.

Made me wonder if in reality any goods had been despatched, after all if this was happening fairly frequently to a supplier you would think they would do something as they suerly could not be standing these losses. Meanwhile had my money for 28 days in their account!!!

[Colin Key]

Read on another forum that they should be renamed "the 7week shop".