first scope?

[reg]

i'm after a bit of advice really :)

what's a good scope to start off with?
still a bit new to bird watching so don't want to spend a fortune.
maybe up to about the £300 mark.

has anyone tried the Opticron Mighty Midget II?
i like the look of this one but is it any good?

reg

[paj]

I haven't had the opportunity to try out the Opticron Mighty Midget II but Bird Watching Magazine ran a review in their June issue and gave it a very favourable rating for such a small scope.
You could also look at the likes of Kowa's 61 & 66mm scopes and others by Opticron.
The problem with scopes and the same goes for binos, is that you will find big differences between the different models in how they suit your eyes!
You will find some that as soon as you look through them everything falls into place and you will feel you are getting a nice relaxed clear view. There are others that no matter how you adjust your head the view will still be lousy and you will never get on with them.
The only way to decide is to look through as many models within you price range as possible at a retailers who will not rush you into making a decision or, get down to the Bird Fair and look to your hearts content.
If you think you will stay with birding, then buy the best scope you can afford and, if you do decide to spend a little more on a larger scope, then don't forget the the non - flourite/ED/HD models from the likes of Swarovski, Leica, Kowa etc.


your eyes

[reg]

thanks for the advice, Kevin & pajarero.

anyone know if there are any good internet sites that have online reviews of scopes?

[paj]

Reg

Take a look at [URL=http://www.betterviewdesired.com]
There are plenty of reviews on scopes & bins but I think most of those on scopes tend to be top-end models. Still worth a look though!

Paj

[reg]

thanks Kevin. i've just send off for the back issue :)

[Colin]

Reg,
Here are a few points to consider before buying. You may know of these but here they are for what they are worth.

Don't go to a high street shop in the first instance - they do not have the viewing facilities - you will have to escorted outside with an assistant and one scope and by the time another is set up you will have forgotten what the first was like. Go to a specialist shop first but don't necessarily buy from there.

Decide if you want an angled scope or a straight.

Decide if you want a fixed magnification or a zoom. 32x is a middle of the road fixed. For general watching a fixed is OK but if you want to do things like reading plastics rings etc, a zoom is needed.

Decide if you can afford the more expensive florite glass - give a brighter image especially on dull days. (Try to choose a dull day for viewing - the dullness of the day sorts the men from the boys so to speak).

When you have decided what you want seach the magazines and even the internet for a good price. Beware of 'grey' imports. These are NOT fakes but have been imported by dealers who are not official dealers of that particular make. The problem comes when things go wrong (unlikely with a scope unless you drop it but more likely with, say, cameras with lots of electonics etc.) Then, the dealer will have to send it off, often overseas and you may be without it for weeks whereas with an official dealer, the problem may be fixed on the spot or maybe have to be sent only to a local repairer.

The bottom line is have a look through as many as you can. I endorse what others have said - you will find one which suits your eyes. I have a Kowa 824, now superceded. I found this better to my eyes than more expensive scopes which although very good I considered to be awful in terms of value for money but that was just my eyes.

One final tip. Once you have got your scope try to keep the eye, that you are not using to look through it, open. If you close your other eye and spend lots of time observing, you will find that you will get an ache from the muscles around that eye and for a while you may even find this eye twitching a bit. It may seem to other people that you are winking at them!!! Just thought - maybe a good thing for pulling, on the other hand, might get my face slapped!!!!!

Hope this helps

Colin

[paj]

All good advice Colin.
Especially about not winking at other birders, as most I meet are male!!!

paj

[reg]

thanks for all that advice Colin :)
i thinking about going down to the scottish wildlife and countryside fair at vane farm this saturday to have a good look at all the scopes so will bear all that in mind.
i'm still thinking, looking at all the scopes in the adverts at the back of the bird watching mag, that the MM2 is probably best for what i want. just something to keep in my racksack when i'm out and about. probably with the fixed 25x W to start off with.

on a small scope like the MM2 do people think it would be better to get 2 fixed eyepieces, say a 25x W and a 40x W or go for the 15-40x zoom?

thanks
reg

[paj]

Reg

On a small scope such as MM2 you want the brightest possible image so I would edge towards the fixed eyepieces.
There may be too much loss of light on the zoom as you go up in magnification but the only way to find out is to try all the eyepieces. As Colin mentioned, try to pick a dull day for the test to get the best idea.
Also, the field of view is normally greater on fixed than zoom for the same magnification, which makes for more relaxed viewing.

paj

[Colin]

Reg,
Kevins idea of a monopod is a good idea for what you want (rucksac etc.). It should work very well with a 20x fixed or at the bottom end of a zoom but I think that a 40x is pushing it a bit for holding the monopod still. Best way is to try it.

It may be a bit expensive and I have forgotten the make but there is a tripod where the centre section lifts out and becomes a monopod. It's a bit like some tripods have a centre section which pulls out to be used with a hide clamp but in this case the 'pole' part is much longer.

DON'T buy the MM1 - which you could only do second hand. It is nowhere near as good as the MM2. In terms of a small scope, try the Kowa 501 or 502 - one is angled and the other is not - can't remember which is which.

Paj - Yes, winking at males could be problem - might have to run fast!!

Colin


Colin

[reg]

yep i'll have a look at the Kowa 501 and 502.
but i think i remember reading that you couldn't change the eye piece on these so was put off a bit.

[reg]

i went down to vane farm on saturday and had a try on all the scopes there (they had a fair there over the weekend).
in the end i got an opticron IS 60 with a fixed 25x W.
i think its quite a good compromise between getting a lightweight one like the MM2 and a big scope.
thanks for everyone's advice
reg

[Colin]

Reg,
I reckon you have a good value for money scope there Reg. You should have hours of fun with it. You will probably have tried it but using a scope to watch insects, such as settled butterflies at close range (near the minimum focussing range) is quite interesting - don't have to be looking at things a long way off to appreciate the usefulness of a scope.


Colin

[Spinnity]

For a first scope, I wouldn't make changeable eyepieces a major criterion. Price, clarity of view, zoom or no zoom, and angled vs. straight would be my focus. I think you would be better off getting a clear view (thru field testing!) on a one-eyepiece scope than compromising on view to get more eyepieces.

My first scope was the Bushnell Spacmaster - rubberized body, 20-60x zoom. It was less expensive than you are planning to spend, so I expect _your_ first scope will give you much better views. But I'm glad it was a simple device, fairly limited. Not having lots of bells & whistles on the early scope really helped when it came time to buying the *second* scope.

[boznia]

Reg, I am thinking of getting an Opticron IS 60mm scope with 18-54x zoom eyepiece. Could you tell me how you are getting on with yours, and how much you paid for the two items.

I think i may take everybody elses advice and go and have a look through one first, but i will probably go mail order.

Thanks for your time,

Ben

[boznia]

Reg, sorry to post again, but i have found a supplier who sell me this scope with 18-54 zoom eyepiece for £189. Do you think this is a good price and how is the scope?

Ben

[Ashley beolens]

A lot of the specialist shops sell off trade ins for cheap and as some rich birders upgrade at the first sign of a better scope you can get some good scopes for much less than full price, its always worth asking.

[boznia]

Thanks Kevin and Ashley for your thoughts. I have seen a KOWA TSN 820 series 20-60 zoom in 'good condition' on the internet for £99. Comparing a first hand Opticron IS 60mm to this, what do you think?

I have asked for more details about the condition, and hope to get a response tomorrow.

Ben

[boznia]

It turns out the KOWA is just the eyepiece, silly me, should have known by the '820 series'

sorry.

[digi-birder]

Boznia,

Take heed of what Kevin says and try and compare scopes side-by-side.

I'm not familiar with the Opticron IS 60, but my first scope was an Opticron Imagic 65, purchased from inFocus at Titchwell. I was initially going to get the Mighty Midget or the small Kowa 501/502. I used it for about a week and thought it was OK. We had previously shared a Bushnell Spacemaster, which we'd had for years.

My husband then decided he wanted a new scope, so we went to an inFocus demo day at a local reserve and he purchased the Opticron ES80. When I compared the view through this with the one I'd just bought, it was no contest. I went back to the demo hide and asked to pay the difference and upgrade. InFocus allow you to do this if you return the original purchase within two weeks.

I walked away with the ES80 and have never looked back. Well, only once, when I thought I needed a Swarovski for digiscoping because everyone else had one and they were getting better results than I was at the time!

Hope this helps.

Diane.

[KCFoggin]

Well, I just purchased my first spotting scope here in the US and I must say I am quite pleased with it. It is the Raven from Eagle Optics. It's not the one I really, really want but that will come later. I wonder if EagleOpticsUK would have the same scope. It has a 78mm objective lens, eyepiece is 20 x 60x. I did have to buy a sturdier tripod and I opted for the straight angle to make it a bit easier for me to get a bead on my sight. My local audubon gives it high marks as well. It goes for $400. here so I'm not sure what that would be in your currency.

[T0ny]

Well don't keep us in suspence, KC - which is the one you really really want ? Does the name start with an 'S' or an 'L' ?

Tony

[KCFoggin]

Either/or would make me extremely happy, but, I decided I needed a simple basic scope to get my feet wet. Gosh this birding has become quite an expensive passion.B (: On my third and I'm sure not my last digie camera and my first scope.

[Andy Bright]

....And why wasn't I informed about this new purchase, K.C? ;)
Sounds like a good buy.... equates to exactly £250 (didn't know the £ was doing so well) Glad you're enjoying a bird in the hand view...but you get that from your camera anyway ;)

Eagle Optics in the U.S. are a different bunch to our boys at Eagle Eye Opiczooms (b300 et al). I've heard very good things about Eagle Optics, especially as far as service to the customer (their 78mm ED sounds good). Not sure who makes their scopes, expect they are from the Far-East and rebadged for Eagle Optics.

There are some really top quality and good value optics coming from the Far-East at the moment, giving the Europeans a fright. I'm wondering if the scopes badged for the RSPB are the same as Eagle Optics... not many 78mm scopes around (and I'm sure they're not the Nikon 78mm Fieldscopes).
Regards,
Andy

[KCFoggin]

I'm sorry Andy, :( my bad. Actually I was saving up for it and my kids got wind of it and surprised me with it for Christmas. Nice kids huh? Other than a bit of eye fatigue, which I think will lessen in time I am enjoying the feeling of looking thru the scope and feeling as though I could reach out and stroke the bird. New experience.
Actually watched a pair of woodies preening each other. That blew me away cause I didn't realize they did that and I felt like a bit of a voyeur. :) Did have to get a sturdier and taller tripod which makes for less pain in the neck area :) I think I will thoroughly enjoy using it although now it is becoming a bit of an ordeal carrying camera, scope, tripod etc. on my bird outings.

[Andy Bright]

Hi K.C. If you can, try to keep both eyes open when looking through the scope...it's hard to get used to at first but it will save eye fatigue.
What's next from your kids? You got your blind, now a scope ;)
Best regards,
Andy

[KCFoggin]

Andy, the blind and scope came at a dear price. I had to make a solemn promise to them (with fingers crossed behind my back) not to climb any more trees in my pursuit of birding B (: