New Taxonomy subforum

[Andy Bright]

The more observant out there will have noticed we now have a separate subforum inside the main Bird Identification or Taxonomy section, simply entitled 'Taxonomy'.

We have received numerous requests to have a separate forum devoted to this subject, as current threads on taxonomy get lost in amongst the very active Bird I.D. threads.

In time, and depending upon activity, we will consider moving the 'taxonomy' subforum to a full forum status on the main page.

Regards,
Andy
Admin

[Larry Wheatland]

Yeah, one more vote for a separate taxonomy section please !

[bitterntwisted]

In time, and depending upon activity, we will consider moving the 'taxonomy' subforum to a full forum status on the main page.


But would the sub-forum status not intrinsically limit its usage and therefore work against its elevation to full forum status? Let's have a proper debate about the classification of taxonomy. Should it be split, or lumped with ID?

Personally I've always seen "Your Birding Day" and "Birds and Birding" as a cline, and I can think of several intergrade threads, so I think these should be lumped.

love,
The Post-Modern Awkward Squad

[Larry Wheatland]

But would the sub-forum status not intrinsically limit its usage and therefore work against its elevation to full forum status? Let's have a proper debate about the classification of taxonomy. Should it be split, or lumped with ID?

Personally I've always seen "Your Birding Day" and "Birds and Birding" as a cline, and I can think of several intergrade threads, so I think these should be lumped.

love,
The Post-Modern Awkward Squad

Perhaps the taxonomy / ID superforum may best be considered to constitute a ring forum, with distinct and incompatible individual threads at each extreme edge of the foral ranges, yet with irrefutible hybrids occurring within the zone of overlap (eg. threads discussing the ID as well as proposed elevation to species status of related taxa).

[AmpelisChinito]

I think that Bird ID and discussion deserves a full section, rather than Taxonomy, which would then leave out Taxonomy and make it it's own section. Just a thought.

[bitterntwisted]

I think that Bird ID and discussion deserves a full section, rather than Taxonomy, which would then leave out Taxonomy and make it it's own section. Just a thought.

That's the serious point I wanted to make but my own flippancy undermined it.

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

I think that separating out bird identification from taxonomy makes great sense to me. Both are areas that I am very interested in, but admittedly, they don't share too much in common with one another. Often, one is relevant to the other, but not necessarily so. Not all bird IDers are knowledgable taxomists, and many great taxonomists have little interest in bird identification.

Another potential shift toward finding more natural groupings to the Bird Identification category would be to allow for bird photo quizzes to be included under the umbrella of the ID forum, rather than relegated to the Bird Forum Fun Quizzes section of The World Today/Off Topic Subjects category they currently fall under. Most of the folks with an interest in bird identification "hang out" in the Bird Identification forum, and some cases, might not even be aware of a separate quiz forum. Since a lot of contributers like to sharpen their birding skills by answering requests for identification, there is really very little difference between whether or not the original posters know the answers themselves at the time they pose the question. The respondents use the same skill sets to answer them. It would be simple enough to flag such threads in the title by typing "Quiz: subject heading" to alert folks to the fact that the poster knows the identity up front, but is allowing for others to test their skills should they chose. Some food for thought.

Chris

[AlexC]

I think this semi-separation is working out great. :t:

[Andy Bright]

Well, the time has come and we now have the 'Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature' forum on the main page, instead of a subforum tucked away in the bird i.d. section.
http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=505

cheers
Andy

[egalinou]

Well, the time has come and we now have the 'Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature' forum on the main page, instead of a subforum tucked away in the bird i.d. section.
http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=505

cheers
Andy
Very good idea- I aggree with this title for a forum

[Andy Bright]

Very good idea- I aggree with this title for a forum
Thanks go to Chris Benesh for the title and description :t: Let's hope it proves a popular area of the site.

cheers,
Andy

[Tom Tarrant]

I must admit I've always felt that the "Birds Of Asia, Australia & Pacific Islands" Gallery should be split too (....we've lost New Zealand and the Antarctic!!)

[Steven Astley]

It's disappointing that something as specialized as taxonomy gets its own forum yet where is the one for bird behaviour. But we all know the main reason why don't we, as ever, the tick.

[Larry Wheatland]

It's disappointing that something as specialized as taxonomy gets its own forum yet where is the one for bird behaviour. But we all know the main reason why don't we, as ever, the tick.

Interesting point. Maybe there should be one exclusively for bird behaviour too ? And not just because we could do with a few new thread ticks. ;)

[Andy Bright]

It's disappointing that something as specialized as taxonomy gets its own forum yet where is the one for bird behaviour. But we all know the main reason why don't we, as ever, the tick.
You seem to specialise at being confrontational, in fact you have quite a history of it on Birdforum. We've had dozens of polite requests for a separate taxonomy section and therefore we have responded.

Lose the chip off your shoulder and we may take your request a bit more seriously.

Regards,
Andy

[SteveO43]

Well, the time has come and we now have the 'Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature' forum on the main page, instead of a subforum tucked away in the bird i.d. section.
cheers
Andy
Since Species/Ssp. Distribution appears to fit in with taxonomy, is distribution a valid subject as well? Or is there a more logical forum?

[Chris Benesh]

Since Species/Ssp. Distribution appears to fit in with taxonomy, is distribution a valid subject as well? Or is there a more logical forum?
Hi Steve,

I would agree that distribution is quite relevant to any discussion of avian taxonomy though it may not be relevant in all instances. Certainly when discussing variation in populations, their distribution is an essential component.

Chris

[Chris Benesh]

It's disappointing that something as specialized as taxonomy gets its own forum yet where is the one for bird behaviour. But we all know the main reason why don't we, as ever, the tick.

I am inclined to agree that bird behavior is a significant, fundamental aspect of bird biology and birding, and that there is a lot of interesting stuff observed out there that is worthy of sharing with members at large in a forum specifically dedicated to behavior.

However Steven, I must add that I found your dissing of the new taxonomy forum pretty juvenile. Do you really believe that researchers are conducting thousands of different studies in avian systematics just so that they can get another tick? Or that we as amateur and/or professional ornithologists should have no interest in the science of birds? If so, then maybe you ought to spend more time reading some of the threads that appear in the T & N forum to see what is actually being discussed.

Chris

[Marcus Lawson]

However Steven, I must add that I found your dissing of the new taxonomy forum pretty juvenile. Do you really believe that researchers are conducting thousands of different studies in avian systematics just so that they can get another tick? Or that we as amateur and/or professional ornithologists should have no interest in the science of birds? If so, then maybe you ought to spend more time reading some of the threads that appear in the T & N forum to see what is actually being discussed.

Chris

Mr Bright summed it up perfectly when he said it was due to the chip on his shoulder. Twitcher bashing is still a popular sport in the UK, borne predominantly out of ignorance and jealousy. Hey-ho.

Can I just congratulate the mods and those with positive input who help to constantly improve BirdForum as such an important resource to birders of all levels. Keep up the great work and thankyou.

[njlarsen]

I am a twitcher, in the sence that I enjoy seeing something new and tick it, but also, it will often give me an unexpected insight into unexpected behaviour. I am also a "serious" birdwatcher, who have been known to count up whether this flock of little greebe is 25 or 49 birds, and report the number to the proper database. I am also a person interested in the conservation of birds, and one of the sorry things is that subspecies are not given the same level of protection as full species. For that reason (and because I like it as an intellectual challenge), I am interested in Taxonomy. I will also confess that if there is doubt about the status, species vs subspecies, I want to err on the side of splitting, simply because otherwise the subspecies might have gone extinct before we even know it was a species.

What is wrong with people who think that you can only be a birdwatcher in one particular way?

Niels

[AlexC]

With Niels on this. I'm twitch-crazy, list-crazy, taxonomy-crazy, and help-people-crazy. It's fun to help people out with IDs in the ID forum! Especially giving tips about IDing that will help them know what to look for in the field next time. I learned from helpful birders who knew more than I did, and I just want to give back what I've been given.