What is your opinion about Carduelis genus?

[LaB O RINg]

.... Carduelis citrinella or Serinus citrinella?

[Xenospiza]

Latest evidence is strongly suggesting Carduelis. But Carduelis itself needs some revision with regards to the redpolls and crossbills...

[Hotspur]

Crossbills bringing in and redpolls out? Where would that leave siskins? Aren't they quite close to redpolls?

[Xenospiza]

No: there are at least five groups that are now in Carduelis:
Greenfinches (Chloris, related to the Desert Finch)
Goldfinch (unclear)
Redpolls (related to crossbills (Loxia))
Linnet and Twite (unclear)
all remaining “yellow” Carduelis, including the Citril Finch.
The relations between these groups, and with the canaries, are still unclear or only badly supported...
In the end, I guess a few groups will get new genus names (redpolls and linnets were Acanthis, but this would probably not be a group either...).

[AlexC]

No: there are at least five groups that are now in Carduelis:
Greenfinches (Chloris, related to the Desert Finch)
Goldfinch (unclear)
Redpolls (related to crossbills (Loxia))
Linnet and Twite (unclear)
all remaining “yellow” Carduelis, including the Citril Finch.
The relations between these groups, and with the canaries, are still unclear or only badly supported...
In the end, I guess a few groups will get new genus names (redpolls and linnets were Acanthis, but this would probably not be a group either...).

Do your groups include New World finches? Would American/Lesser/Lawrence's Goldfinch be in your Goldfinch group or your yellow Carduelis group? And where are all the siskins in all this?

[Joern Lehmhus]

Do your groups include New World finches? Would American/Lesser/Lawrence's Goldfinch be in your Goldfinch group or your yellow Carduelis group? And where are all the siskins in all this?


I thought they all group in this yellow Carduelis group? But I may well be wrong?

[AlexC]

I thought they all group in this yellow Carduelis group? But I may well be wrong?

You may not be wrong categorically, but as to the actual yellow... what about... say... Red Siskin? Carduelis cucullata? ;)

[Gentoo]

Goldfinches ans Siskins are, at least to my understanding, thought to be very closely related. To the point that the only thing that really seperates then are the names Goldfinch and Siskin. I wouldn't be suprised to see many of the Serinus species be moved to Carduelis or vice versa. Many in these genera hybridize successfully and produce fertile hybrids. Red Siskin and Canary gave us the Red Factor Canaries we see in pet shops. American Goldfinch has hybridized successfully with Canaries and European Goldfinches producing fertile offspring as well.