Why?

[Grousemore]

Forgive the intrusion, but why does anyone bother to post these 'Lists' of birds they've seen?... My Year list, My county lists, life lists etc, etc ad nauseum.

Do they really believe anyone is interested, or moreover if anyone actually reads them in detail?

What is the purpose? I can understand why, and have often gratefully used, the info from particular locations as part of the planning of a trip, but to blandly list species and a yearly/life number is surely pointless?

Is it a competitive thing or what...I really struggle to see the point.

[AlexC]

To each his/her own, Trevor - no reason to list-bash. I love adding to my list! It's a great feeling! And I also like reading other people's lists - it gets me excited about my own!

[JWN Andrewes]

Hi Trevor

I've got two threads running in the lists section here. One is Month Lists ( http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=48356 ), which I enjoy keeping. What I need for a particular month will often influence my choice of where to go off birding in my precious spare time, eg the other day I visited a local reserve that is hosting a wintering Curlew Sandpiper, and I'll be back next month to see it in February. This starts to give me better understanding of a seldom seen (in the UK) plumage. Also it'll be my month lists that will eventually encourage me to go and seek out local specialities (Cirl Bunting, Crested Tit, Common Crane etc) in each month, so I'll be visiting areas outside their optimum season and again, gaining experience(s) I might otherwise have missed. I get off on this and posted to see if I could encourage any one else to do likewise. (Doesn't look like I have, but hey, I gave it a go!) The other is my garden list ( http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=70096 ) which I started simply because I was childishly excited about finally owning my own house, in a place where a Garden List was worth doing! I totally admit it's pretty self indulgent (and the Garden List one would probably be better suited to maybe the Local Patch section - perhaps I'll get it moved sometime), but I enjoy it, so there!
Not a comprehensive answer - it's not always easy to look back and analyse exactly why one does things that just "felt like a good idea at the time" but you raise a good point so I thought I'd give it a shot!

James

[kevinguest]

Do they really believe anyone is interested, or moreover if anyone actually reads them in detail?

What is the purpose? I can understand why, and have often gratefully used, the info from particular locations as part of the planning of a trip, but to blandly list species and a yearly/life number is surely pointless?

Is it a competitive thing or what...I really struggle to see the point.

My main objective in posting lists is to share information with other birders. Beddington Farm has (legitimate!!) access for keyholders only, I am fortunate to be one. This post is regularly visited by local birders many of which do not have access to the site. Vantage points are limited but by knowing the Iceland Gull was on the scrape or lake then there is a good chance a non keyholder will see the bird from one of these points. I add pictures to brighten up the proceedings.

Posting in this format also adds challenge factor encouraging me to improve my lists by "chasing" more common birds that I need for a county list. Birds I probably would not look at if I just had a life list.

I regularly look at other birders lists to see what is about. I have ticked many birds that would not make it onto Birdguides or other rarity alert sites.

You are correct in saying there is competition between birders as well. There is always plenty of banter between the Beddington birders especially during quiet days. In soccer terms I am a 2nd Division (3rd league) birder fighting off relegation when my lists are compared to the experts at Beddington (Johnny Allan and Gary Messenbird to name two Champions / Premier League birders).

I keep a list for every site, county, country and of course a life list (all produced by wildlife recorder).


Listing adds to the enjoyment of a great hobby. It gives me insentive particularly on those freezing / wet days when it would be easier to stay in bed. I use lists to look back with fond memories of birding adventures.

Listing gets a big :t: :clap: from me but each to their own!

Regards

Kevin

[iano]

I really struggle to see the point.

My signature below gives a clue to my views on this ..... and also listing material wealth ...... ;)

[gillian]

Why list on Bf, why not! I guess some do it just for fun which seems a good a reason as any to me. I don't keep a list here but may in the future. I think lots of people read them and enjoy seeing other birders good fortune.

Personally I love the photo lists but wish there was somewhere to coment on them as I have on more than one occasion wanterd to pat the lister on the back!

Gillian

[Katy Penland]

Even though I'm not a lister, I can see why those who do keep lists might want to keep them online -- especially when away from home and the only computer access they have isn't their own hard drive. :t:


Personally I love the photo lists but wish there was somewhere to coment on them as I have on more than one occasion wanterd to pat the lister on the back! You can always send them a PM. ;)

[whomes]

I agree completely Grousemore, although the answer is easy - don't open the threads.

[AlexC]

James gave a really good reason for why I (along with other birders) keep a LOT of lists. I keep my World List (so I know what species I've seen), my ABA List (so I can talk wistfully with friends who don't travel outside the country about the birds one of us has or hasn't seen), my year lists (to keep the new year birds extra-exciting), my state lists (so I can talk wistfully with friends who don't travel outside the STATE about the birds one of us has or hasn't seen), and my month list (to keep the birds fresh and experience birding locations at different times of year - like James said).

[Keith Reeder]

Why publish them online then, Alex?

If they're just for your benefit (and as far as I'm concerned, all lists are for the lister's own satisfaction) they never need to leave your home PC.

Nobody else really cares.

[MSA]

Why publish them online then, Alex?

If they're just for your benefit (and as far as I'm concerned, all lists are for the lister's own satisfaction) they never need to leave your home PC.

Nobody else really cares.

I can think of one very good reason Keith - backup security!

I have always kept a notebook, and in my early days I used to copy this into a neat permanent version, but when family and work commitments mounted I grew a little lazy. The loss of a couple of notebooks (which I'd kept in an old briefcase) in a burglary hit me hard, and was actually the only thing stolen that I really gave a toss about! I now keep as much backup as I can in as many places as I can, being mindful of loss by theft, fire, flood etc; computers and media can all disappear, but at least you can then access an on-line backup if posted here! (not that I do, as yet, post any of my own stuff here, but it may happen).

If anyone else gleans any pleasure from the lists of another, then I guess that's a bonus.

[AlexC]

Keith - exactly as Mark says - for backup, AND as Katy said - so I can access my list from anywhere there's internet, not just from my home computer.

Also, as I said in my first post, I like to read others' lists because it gets me excited about my own, so I like to think in turn that others will read my list to get excited about their own. Just because you or Trevor don't post lists I don't understand why you have to fuss and whine about it and make us feel bad - "Nobody else really cares"... no need for this, Keith. If you don't want to read my list, don't.

EDIT: I could ask you, Keith, "what's the point of putting your bird photos online? Nobody else really cares," but I don't, because that's rude - your business is your business (N.B. I take and post bird photos, too, so I'm not picking on photographers, I'm just drawing a parallel).

[Farnboro John]

I enjoy looking at some of the other lists on BF, and there is always the chance of picking up a site for a species you find difficult or getting a new appreciation of somewhere you had a bad day.

And like every other aspect of birding its not compulsory. You can do it or not, to the extent you feel like it. What dogs me off is the way some posters presume incorrectly to speak for all with comments like "no-one else cares" - always unlikely to be right.

Why can't you say something decent and righteous and POSITIVE for once - Oddball in Kelly's Heroes.

John

[birdman]

Well, as usual, I can see both sides of this argument... and I guess it boils down to whether or not you have listing tendencies in the first place.

I do... and I suppose I hope folks are as interested in my list, as I am in theirs.

But I'll tell you what... I'm glad I did, as I recently had a major computer disaster (somewhat of my own doing) which means I have (=choose) to recompile all my source data.

Rather than go through piles of notebooks, I going to try and recover as much as I can from BF.

Here goes some hammer on the search facility!!!

[lockbreeze926]

Why? is a very good question (and not just in this context).

The answer, I think, is that in all hobbies/pastimes, there is an element that is essentially about collecting, and is often quite removed from the apparent subject. For instance, I have a long-standing interest in beer and am regularly mystifed by people who attend beer festivals and are clearly more interested in "ticking" their lists than actually enjoying a drink - quite perverse, but the same phenomenon can be observed in all hobbies; these people are collectors, rather than drinkers (or birders, or whatever).

As to the underlying psychology of this.....

[colonelboris]

Personally I love the photo lists but wish there was somewhere to coment on them as I have on more than one occasion wanterd to pat the lister on the back!

Gillian

Go on then, I've added some photo montages to keep you lot happy...
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=790239#post790239

[Farnboro John]

Why? is a very good question (and not just in this context).

The answer, I think, is that in all hobbies/pastimes, there is an element that is essentially about collecting, and is often quite removed from the apparent subject. For instance, I have a long-standing interest in beer and am regularly mystifed by people who attend beer festivals and are clearly more interested in "ticking" their lists than actually enjoying a drink - quite perverse, but the same phenomenon can be observed in all hobbies; these people are collectors, rather than drinkers (or birders, or whatever).

As to the underlying psychology of this.....


As an attendee of beer festivals who starts the evening ticking the programme and writing tasting notes that get briefer and more squiggly as the evening progresses, until a mere tick is all that can be physically done and the tastebuds are clearly shot, I suggest that the urge to analyse the pleasant experience and compare new tastes to known reference points is also involved - plus if you want to remember even the early bits of the evening a note or two in the programme is a big help!

I don't have a beer list in the way that I have an array of bird lists, but I will often try one I haven't had before even if its a guest in my own local where I know what I like.

John

[Darren Pearce]

I post my year list into Members yearly totals. I have made an addition this morning after seeing a Treecreeper in a local park. If nobody really cares about other peoples lists why will my number of views figure increase over the course of the day.

I regularly look at other peoples lists in this forum to see what other people have seen.

Each to their own I say

[Collster]

i must admit i do make a list, but only when i have to do the shopping

[bitterntwisted]

There's some really excellent answers to this "Why?" question in this thread, http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=77135, "Lists: Love them or hate them?"

[Grousemore]

I enjoy looking at some of the other lists on BF, and there is always the chance of picking up a site for a species you find difficult or getting a new appreciation of somewhere you had a bad day.


John

I said that in my original Post.

It was the sort of...

54. Chaffinch
55. Wren
56. Blackbird
etc, etc

approach that I was questioning.

[Joe Ray]

Personally this is one of two places I keep my list totals, one is in the Birdwatcher's Yearbook, where I keep most stuff, and the other is here, where I keep my yearlist only.
I use BF as backup as MSA does, as well as simply somewhere I can share my enjoyment of seeing birds, rare or common.

[josh jones]

Is it a competitive thing or what...I really struggle to see the point.


Well to be honest I struggle to see your point ;)

Its up to the individual whether they want to keep lists or not. No need to moan.

[dan pointon]

I enjoy looking at some of the other lists on BF, and there is always the chance of picking up a site for a species you find difficult or getting a new appreciation of somewhere you had a bad day.

And like every other aspect of birding its not compulsory. You can do it or not, to the extent you feel like it. What dogs me off is the way some posters presume incorrectly to speak for all with comments like "no-one else cares" - always unlikely to be right.

Why can't you say something decent and righteous and POSITIVE for once - Oddball in Kelly's Heroes.

John

For me John hits the nail cleanly on the head here, and I agree entirely with everything he says, I for one certainly enjoy scanning through the list section.

Furthermore, no matter whether you've just seen your first Long-tailed Tit or indeed Pacific Diver, as someone with an interest in birds there's always going to be an element of excitement there, something that it is human nature to share with others. I don't think these lists are doing any harm to anyone, if you don't want to read them don't click on them....easy as!

[Tero]

Taking a step back, why does anybody bother posting these messages? Why would anybody care if I saw a gull or tried a new binocular?

I believe the answer is that it fills up time, entertains, etc. At least for the poster himself-herself.

Happy birding!

[Pluvius]

I personally started a list for the first time last year not on here but on my blog. I think that it encourages you to go out and try and see something that isnt on your list. I saw 163 species in Ulster last year and this year I intend to see more. For example I didnt see a Dipper last year and I am going to make a concerted effort to see one this year.

Last year I really enjoyed seeing Postcardcv's Photo list and have decided to try and emulate him this year. Its not easy I could post shots that have been taken at long distance/ record shots and may well use some of them later in the year when I am getting desperate.

But above all I think Listing makes you get out into the country and bird.