Clements updates

[Larry Wheatland]

Anyone got a link to any updates to Clements' list for 2006 ?

[cuckooroller]

Hi Larry,
I wouldn't stick my hand on a grill on this, but I think that there are none dating past Dec. 15, 2005. Perhaps someone knows better.

[SteveO43]

Hi Larry,
I wouldn't stick my hand on a grill on this, but I think that there are none dating past Dec. 15, 2005. Perhaps someone knows better.
Yes. There have been no updates since Dr. Clements died and the checklist material was transferred to Cornell.

I am sure that the sixth edition, from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, will be out in the near future. The publish date has slipped a few times, but I believe the latest target is in the April '07 timeframe.

[njlarsen]

Steve,
that is my impression as well, that the last updates on the Ibispub website came when Clements sat down to finish his new version. When I ordered my copy of the new version, the date for publishing was set for November 2006, but I was just asked to approve a date in April 2007. I have the impression that online updates can be expected to the new version as well, but I would not hold my breath until I see those ...

Niels

[Jeff hopkins]

Yes. There have been no updates since Dr. Clements died and the checklist material was transferred to Cornell.

I am sure that the sixth edition, from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, will be out in the near future. The publish date has slipped a few times, but I believe the latest target is in the April '07 timeframe.

Ironically, I was up at Cornell last month, and the sales person at the Lab of O bookstore was unaware a new version was coming out. Hmmm.

[SueBryan]

Ironically, I was up at Cornell last month, and the sales person at the Lab of O bookstore was unaware a new version was coming out. Hmmm.

Oh dear, this is not good news for all us world listers who keep our records in Clements.
Sue

[cuckooroller]

Jeff,
That might not mean a whole heck of a lot. A Sales Clerk does not necessarily have to know a whole lot about what he is selling, or have any personal interest in it either. Maybe he/she is more interested in Insects, Jason Biggs memorabilia, or whatever...

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

FYI,

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/Publications/clements_checklist.html

Chris

[SueBryan]

Hi All,

FYI,

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/Publications/clements_checklist.html

Chris

Phew..........thank goodness for that!

[Jeff hopkins]

Jeff,
That might not mean a whole heck of a lot. A Sales Clerk does not necessarily have to know a whole lot about what he is selling, or have any personal interest in it either. Maybe he/she is more interested in Insects, Jason Biggs memorabilia, or whatever...

I know. I just found it a bit mildly humorous.

[SteveO43]

I am sure that the sixth edition, from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, will be out in the near future. The publish date has slipped a few times, but I believe the latest target is in the April '07 timeframe.It now appears that the publish date for THE CLEMENTS CHECKLIST OF BIRDS OF THE WORLD, Sixth Edition is now delayed until mid-June '07.

[cuckooroller]

It now appears that the publish date for THE CLEMENTS CHECKLIST OF BIRDS OF THE WORLD, Sixth Edition is now delayed until mid-June '07.

That stinks! :-C

[njlarsen]

That stinks! :-C

I will second that opinion

Niels

[Steve Lister]

But the delay might mean that the book is two months more up to date. There again it might not.

Steve

[njlarsen]

More likely, it means that production of the book has technical difficulties so that it is two more month out of date. We must hope that they make good on the promise of keeping the online updates coming

Niels

[martinf]

has anyone seen a copy of this yet?

[SteveO43]

has anyone seen a copy of this yet?

Just received mine. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to open it yet.

[Pterodroma]

I see on the ABA website the following:

''This completely revised sixth edition is current as of 2005 and incorporates hundreds of updates since the last edition''.

Mmm.....not so good

[Pterodroma]

Yet on the Cornell website it says:

''This completely revised sixth edition is current as of January 1, 2007''

Puzzled?

[Mark Harper]

Birdbase website is showing the chages from 5th to 6th editions (link below) and as far as I can see there is no changes that weren't on the previously published updates. If the 6th edition does just contain those previously published updates I cannot see myself rushing to buy a copy.

http://members.aol.com/sbsp/clements5thto6th.htm

[Steve Lister]

The Birdbase link does not mention new species, only changes resulting from splits, lumps and name changes, so obviously the new edition will be a little different.

Also, the very first two listed changes, lumping Green and Two-barred Greenish Warblers with Greenish, are ones that James Clements never made, suggesting that there are indeed at least some revisions made between his death and January 1st 2007.

Steve

[Steve Lister]

Just noticed that Lesser and Common (Mealy) Redpolls get lumped (don't know which authority this is based on but clearly the BOU view has been ignored) but then in the splits list it is down as a
split. Coupled with some typos it makes you wonder how reliable the Birdbase treatment of the changes actually is.

Steve

[Mark Harper]

Also, the very first two listed changes, lumping Green and Two-barred Greenish Warblers with Greenish, are ones that James Clements never made, suggesting that there are indeed at least some revisions made between his death and January 1st 2007.

Steve


Lumping of the Green, Two-barred and Greenish Warbler was included on http://www.ibispub.com/updates.html on May 30 2000. In relation to Lesser and Common Redpoll's they were shown as splits in the Dec 2000 update and relumped in Dec 2003.

I agree that they do not show new species, but if they have got all the splits and lumps from the updates, they may have taken the new species from the same place.

[Steve Lister]

Lumping of the Green, Two-barred and Greenish Warbler was included on http://www.ibispub.com/updates.html on May 30 2000.


Sorry Mark, I had missed that as it is sort of merged in with Humes's and Yellow-browed being split.
I have found 16 changes that I had not encountered anywhere else but I may have overlooked some of them previously. Equally, there are others that I have come across that are not listed by Birdbase and so presumably are not in the new edition.

Steve

[Pterodroma]

So what was the cut-off date?

Is the sixth edition only including updates and revisions to December 2005, or December 2006?

[Pterodroma]

So what was the cut-off date?

Is the sixth edition only including updates and revisions to December 2005, or December 2006?

Amazon.com say ''This completely revised sixth edition is current as of 2005''........this would mean the new 6th edition takes us only as far as the updates website

[Arbu]

I already had my list updated to take into account
http://www.ibispub.com/updates.html, but there seem to be a few more splits in http://members.aol.com/sbsp/clements5thto6th.htm.

I checked a random selection of the changes in the splits and lumps, but all I could find was a few items at the end of the splits which were listed in the latter link but not the former link.These were:

Dendragapus fuliginosus split from D. obscurus

Rostratula australis split from R. benghalensis

Aratinga alticola split from A. mitrata

Hylocharis humboldtii split from H. grayi

Melanerpes pulcher split from M. chrysauchen

So I have updated my list accordingly. But has anyone else in a similar position to me found that there are more differences?

[martinf]

Amazon.com say ''This completely revised sixth edition is current as of 2005''........this would mean the new 6th edition takes us only as far as the updates website

I thought that Cornell were now managing this since Clements death, so would that mean that their website should be more accurate.
You'd think..........
but who knows....
still puzzled

[cuckooroller]

Now I am getting rather confused. I just ordered this darn thing from NHBS. However, I am now asking myself if I could have just kept my always updated 5th Edition and have essentially the supposedly new and updated 6th Edition. Did I just waste my money?

[martinf]

Now I am getting rather confused. I just ordered this darn thing from NHBS. However, I am now asking myself if I could have just kept my always updated 5th Edition and have essentially the supposedly new and updated 6th Edition. Did I just waste my money?

I thought you would be able to answer our questions Steve! Guess you'll know when it lands on your doorstep

[cuckooroller]

I thought you would be able to answer our questions Steve! Guess you'll know when it lands on your doorstep

Hi Martin,
Would that it were so...o:) I need to see it though. I had it back-ordered from Cornell since January - they wrote me a couple of days ago to tell me that they can't sell it to me from there (no licensing for Italy) so now I am scrambling to get a copy from UK. I have no idea what this edition contains as far as any changes since the 5th Ed.

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

I have received a few private emails from colleagues critical of the new 6th edition of The Clements Checklist of Birds of the World and have a few of my own criticisms based on own very brief perusal of the update. Knowing full well that no one checklist will ever win over the adoration of all, I am curious to know what others feel about the update.

One thing that I had noticed off right away was that some of the Australian bird taxonomy seemed outdated. To my shock and surprise, I found that one of the two recent taxonomic works, Schodde & Mason's The Directory of Australian Birds - Passerines, wasn't even in the bibliography.

Comments from others included:
- some odd linear sequences
- outdated South American taxonomy (ignoring recent SACC activity)
- flawed seabird taxonomy (after review of the procellariformes)
- incorrect extinction dates for Labrador Duck and Great Auk (and an incorrect historical range for Great Auk). Also, the recently rediscovered New Zealand Storm-Petrel is listed as extinct, while some others are not ;) ;) ;).

So what do you think? Does the 6th edition of Clements reflect a less imperfect understanding of bird taxonomy than its predecessors?

Chris

[Richard Klim]

At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, I question why Clements is still considered to be the checklist of choice by the ABA and so many other birders. Although of similar size & weight, Dickinson (Howard & Moore) (2003) is far more rigorous and contains significantly more information, including a justification of the sequence of families adopted, author/date down to subspecies level, and almost 3000 specific bibliographical references. By contrast, Clements provides absolutely no justification for its taxonomic stance and includes only a minimal introduction and a very short (7 page) and unreferenced bibliography - the reader is simply expected to take everything on trust.

Although I admit that I have obtained a copy of Clements 6th edition (mainly out of curiosity), I look forward to the 4th edition of Howard & Moore (2009?).

[cuckooroller]

Richard,
By all means ruffle!

Chris,
In total agreement with all of the exceptions that you have listed.

I have had the volume only since the first of the week. I am extremely disappointed. After waiting so long for the publication of this volume aside from some inclusion of new species, a few lumps, some revision of Leaf-Warblers, I am hard pressed to find anything worthy of producing an entire new edition in order to basically include the updates to the fifth edition. What a wasted opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is hard for me to believe that an adequate team of proofreaders went meticulously through the fifth edition. Did someone check the justifications and the validity of the race names?? An example, Arborophila rufogularis vietnamenis?????????? Carried in both editions. Can't find it anywhere else. Who invented the taxon name. How about annamensis! Would anyone care to comment on the maintained silence of Megascops centralis - again overlooked!
Now we are faced with the unhappy prospect of having to go through and include by hand what will by necessity be an enormous inundation of taxonomic changes that they apparently will have to come out with in the updates. I repeat, what a wasted opportunity!

As far as what is the best list, well I have been a convinced HM user for some time and now more than ever it is imperative that the prospected fourth edition comes out as soon as possible. The Cornell Ornithology Lab just shot themselves in the foot as far as I am concerned. This Edition will certainly not add to the stature of the Clements list. My four cents!

[lewis20126]

Just going through it myself - its still got Lophura imperialis and L hatinhensis listed - these were conclusively demonstrated to be hybrid forms a few years ago.

BTW albatross taxonomy is VERY conservative, not even the Chatham Island Albert has been split - surely one of the most distinctive forms. Perhaps it was decided not to pick and choose the divisions here maintaining the status quo.

Cheers
Alan

[lewis20126]

Sidamo Lark Heteromirafra sidamoensis "Known from two specimens from S Ethiopia"

I suspect this sp has been seen by several hundred birders in the last ten years.

(Good to see Degodi lark hanging in there as well for another edition ... not for much longer I suspect!)