Can you do it all with one pair of binos?

[Macaoidh]

Decision tree: Better to spend all my budget (approx $300) on one set of binos that would work for at home and travel for birding/nature watching, or get a real compact, waterproof set for travel, and a larger set of porros for home/neighborhood. 8x for each.

For example:

Monarch 8x36 / EO 8x32 / Leupold Katami - Approx $260-$320, tough to travel with (not pocketable at all, even a coat pocket) but great overall binos.

vs.

Pentax DCF MP 8x28 - either as sole pair or the travel pair, plus/minus
Nikon action/extreme 8x40 or leupold yosemite 8x30, or...?

vs.

Nikon Prostaff 8x25 plus
Nikon action extreme 8x40 or other ~$200 porro/roof? And which one?

I've read and looked through so much lately, I'm just swimming with too much to consider. What's the better compromise, loss of optic quality with 2, or light, and perhaps optics quality with 1 smaller bino? I'd appreciate input from y'all. HELP ME SPEND MY MONEY! :^)

Best,
Christopher

[Tero]

I would not go with the ProStaff alone. They are reliable enough, but I have better pairs. Curiously, the corresponding Travelite appears to me a tiny bit sharper, though has more flare.

The EO 8x32 is sharp enough in the middle, but sweet spot a bit small for the money. I like them, though, not a problem to spend a day with them. The Monarch 8x36 is overalla similar.

[elkcub]

...What's the better compromise, loss of optic quality with 2, or light, and perhaps optics quality with 1 smaller bino?

Welcome aboard.

My advise is always to get the best quality you can afford. About $300 should be enough for a medium 8x that will provide very good service. You might expand your search to include Swift products, particularly the waterproof 828 HHS Audubon, — but make sure it's the latest model.

Ed

[APSmith]

For a "one bino" compact all-arounder, I believe the Katmai is significantly more compact than the Monarch.

I like the idea of having two binoculars over one. BUT, don't go cheap on your primary bino - you will use it mostly, and want the best possible/affordable.

[ceasar]

The Bushnell 7 x 26 Custom is an excellent Binocular for about $250.00. It can be carried easily in a jacket pocket or a large bellows type shirt pocket. 16mm eye relief, 373' FOV,
3.7mm Exit Pupil, 7' close focus and it weighs 12 Oz. I have one, I used it today, I had to travel to another city and I left my Leica Trinovids at home.

Welcome to Bird Forum!
Bob

[Robert / Seattle]

I think you were on the right track with the 8x32 Katmai. Sharp as a tack, built solid -- and very compact for the work it delivers. I'm a Leica and Zeiss user, and I was still impressed with the Katmai's capabilities. Given your parameters, that's what I'd get.
Good review at:

http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gear.tcl?gear=Leupold-Wind-River-Katmai&gear_id=96&action=showgear

Good price and service at:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4034

[Otto McDiesel]

the 8x32 Katmai


335 feet of field of view in a $325 8x32? I bet that he can do better than that.

[APSmith]

335 feet of field of view in a $325 8x32? I bet that he can do better than that.

Other than Bob's Custom Compact, what other candidates match the criteria for a single unit solution, including compactness?

[Robert / Seattle]

335 feet of field of view in a $325 8x32? I bet that he can do better than that.


In that ONE regard, you're absolutely right -- couldn't agree more. But in ALL other physical parameters, I don't think he can do better. There's always compromise in any given choice, but with the Katmai you will not be sacrificing overall optical quality for the price paid. And I have come to wonder, at what cost in optical performance does a wider field of view mechanically necessitate?

[Chris D]

Buy the Monarch 8x42's and put a bullet in your computer.........

[Robert / Seattle]

Buy the Monarch 8x42's and put a bullet in your computer.........


Compact, remember?

[Dave B Smith]

I'd go with one pair of the best optics I could afford. Even travelling, I prefer a great view over a lighter load. To each their own though.

[Katy Penland]

I've had my Bausch & Lomb Elites (10x42) for almost 10 years, and I've been told you can pick them up used for under $400 (mine were originally $1500 but you could always get them on the street for around $800). They've got great optics, are waterproof, and are small compared to most of the 7x or 8x bins. Even though a 10x has a smaller field of view than 7x or 8x, I'm far more interested in getting the closest, best image I can, not cover the most ground. But as Dave said, to each his own.

I use my bins primarily for bird watching but they also are my prime whale watching optics as well. I have only the one pair and they go with me everywhere.

Good luck with your shopping! :t:

[jaymoynihan]

Do you wear eye glasses or not when using binoculars?


jay


Decision tree: Better to spend all my budget (approx $300) on one set of binos that would work for at home and travel for birding/nature watching, or get a real compact, waterproof set for travel, and a larger set of porros for home/neighborhood. 8x for each.

For example:

Monarch 8x36 / EO 8x32 / Leupold Katami - Approx $260-$320, tough to travel with (not pocketable at all, even a coat pocket) but great overall binos.

vs.

Pentax DCF MP 8x28 - either as sole pair or the travel pair, plus/minus
Nikon action/extreme 8x40 or leupold yosemite 8x30, or...?

vs.

Nikon Prostaff 8x25 plus
Nikon action extreme 8x40 or other ~$200 porro/roof? And which one?

I've read and looked through so much lately, I'm just swimming with too much to consider. What's the better compromise, loss of optic quality with 2, or light, and perhaps optics quality with 1 smaller bino? I'd appreciate input from y'all. HELP ME SPEND MY MONEY! :^)

Best,
Christopher

[Chris D]

Compact, remember?

Sorry. I was being a bit gruff. We just had a big birding fest here in Chico. A dealer was there with all the brands and models. The Monarch 42's are just a tad bigger than the 36's --- and in my opinion -- just incredible, especially for the price. The "Binocular" branch of this forum is fun to read and very informative. It reminds me though (sometimes) of Stereo Equipment junkies....... Bright and sharp bino's like the 42's I think are always worth any bother brought on because of size. (I also wear glasses)

[Robert / Seattle]

Sorry. I was being a bit gruff. We just had a big birding fest here in Chico. A dealer was there with all the brands and models. The Monarch 42's are just a tad bigger than the 36's --- and in my opinion -- just incredible, especially for the price. The "Binocular" branch of this forum is fun to read and very informative. It reminds me though (sometimes) of Stereo Equipment junkies....... Bright and sharp bino's like the 42's I think are always worth any bother brought on because of size. (I also wear glasses)


No worries, Chris. I might shoot the computer anyway (and I'm sure there'd be no lack of opinions from forum members regarding what gun I should use).

[Macaoidh]

Thank you all for you input. I know as with most things, if you ask many people their opinions on a controversial topic, you'll get many different answers; all appreciated!

The first thing I can gather, is no one really recommended the two binoc approach. Good. That helps narrow my thoughts considerably.

Regarding an all around glass, I did like the Katami I looked at. Any other experience with glass in that same size/price range? Once from scanning other posts that look interesting are the EO 8x32 (thanks for your opinion Tero), which I just found out a local store carries, so I'll be seeing soon. Also, the Pentax DCF SP 8x32 is available for $350, which is above my original price range, but not by much. I mention these two as they both advertise >390' FOV.

I wish I could see the little Bushnell custom compacts here in town, as they do look like a highly regarded option for what they are (true compacts).

Also the Minox BD 8x32 BL's fit that range. I liked the 8x42 BL Minoxs I saw, but they didn't have the 32s.

If I do just pick an 8x42 and put a bullet in my screen, I'll have a tough time deciding between the Nikons (seen them), the Minox BLs (seen them - very comperable to the Nikons to me), and the Swifts (wish I could see them).

Thanks for the laugh Chris D. There is much wisdom in what you say. I'm sure I'd be happy with any of the above, honestly, but I'm just a touch Type "A".

Best,
Christopher

[PaulJacobson]

Pentax DCF MP 8x28 - either as sole pair or the travel pair, plus/minus
Nikon action/extreme 8x40 or leupold yosemite 8x30, or...?


If I can be heard over the din of Nikon fans I'd like to share my experiences with the DCF MP http://www.pentax.co.jp/english/products/sougan/big/dcf-mp/. I've owned and used a pair of the DCF MP 8x28 as my main bin's for about two years, and I personally think they are pretty good bins. I'm not alone in thinking that as they have reviewed well, see for example http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/site/optics/under_500.aspx, where they were regarded as a best buy.

I haven't compared the with a huge number of bins, but after being told I'd see more birds with some bigger/better bins I asked to look through the persons bins to see what i was missing. They weren't anything special: some 8x42 Bushnell Natureview's that are being sold and recommended by the local birding club. What I saw I was missing out on was a slightly brighter image and larger FOV, but overall I still preferred the DCF MP's in terms of sharpness, build quality, weight, etc.

At very least they'd make an excellent pair of travel/take anywhere bin, and are very usable as an only pair.

The pentax's seem to be being sold by Eagle Optics and others for around $190US at the moment.

[jaymoynihan]

If you do not wear eye glasses (or try before you buy, with them):
Swift 8.5x44 audubon porros.
jay

[Macaoidh]

If you do not wear eye glasses (or try before you buy, with them):
Swift 8.5x44 audubon porros.
jay

Thanks Jay. Unfortunately, the Swift porros are too large for an "only" set. The $350 price tag puts it at/above the top of my range, and doesn't give me a good option when travelling. Optically, everyone seems to agree that those will be superior to anything else I'm considering - I won't argue that.

Best,
Christopher

[APSmith]

Thanks Jay. Unfortunately, the Swift porros are too large for an "only" set. The $350 price tag puts it at/above the top of my range, and doesn't give me a good option when travelling.

Christopher,
I have some fresh advise:
It is possible/likely that you will eventually need at least two binos to cover all the bases. Read AlexisPowell's posts #21&24, in the thread: "binocular regrets". He describes a personal Reference Set, for which we are all, in one way or another, searching. Also, since you mentioned the Pentax SP, I feel you have entered new territory - just a step or two away from the top. This is dangerous and expensive territory, and could become a mini-hobby in itself.

So, do you have to try to completely cover all the bases now at your current $ limit ('cause you probably won't be able to)? If not, you can concentrate on one set of conditions for now. Get a model that is completely satisfactory for that category, even if you have to spend a little extra.

BTW What do you currently use?

Good Luck!

[Macaoidh]

I do appreciate your advice. My Wife and I are very new (neophyte) bird/nauture watchers, and my Wife greatly enjoys watching all the birds and their goings on that occur even in our backyard. So for sure, more than just identifying species, though you always want to know what you're looking at!

The only pair of binoculars we currently have is a junk pair of 7x35 porros. They're horrible. No eye relief, wavy image off of the smallest of center areas. They'd probably cost $10 on ebay nowadays.

Enough belabouring that. Needless to say, even a $50 pair of binos would be a large improvement, but I hate to buy something to find out that I could have spent a bit more and gotten a lot more quality.

We have two upcoming trips to Colorado and Utah, with time to be spent in the mountains with the kids (young kids), and we'd like to be able to take the binos there as well, but with everything else you have to outfit yourself with for even a little nature walk with children, large binos become clumsy and hard to tuck away. Looking through glass will not be the primary purpose there for sure, but it would be nice to have something to check out what we do stumble onto.

This is why I was trying to find something to fit the "do it all" bill, that's still compact enough to travel easily with, yet comfortable enough to view through that they could be used as a primary binoc. -Anything- is an improvement at this time, even a set of Prostaffs! 8x28-32 seemed to me to be the best compromise of compactness and a view that you could really relax and not feel like you were straining with (like most compacts).

Sorry for the long winded answer.

Best,
Christopher

PS To finally answer an earlier question, I may wear glasses with the binos, but I don't have to. I have minimal astigmatism, and my diopter difference eye to eye is only about 1 diopter.

Christopher,
I have some fresh advise:
It is possible/likely that you will eventually need at least two binos to cover all the bases. Read AlexisPowell's posts #21&24, in the thread: "binocular regrets". He describes a personal Reference Set, for which we are all, in one way or another, searching. Also, since you mentioned the Pentax SP, I feel you have entered new territory - just a step or two away from the top. This is dangerous and expensive territory, and could become a mini-hobby in itself.

So, do you have to try to completely cover all the bases now at your current $ limit ('cause you probably won't be able to)? If not, you can concentrate on one set of conditions for now. Get a model that is completely satisfactory for that category, even if you have to spend a little extra.

BTW What do you currently use?

Good Luck!

[APSmith]

I see now the situation. You're new to the hobby. There are SO many options to choose from. The advice is sometimes conflicting.

It might be about impossible to narrow things down in a short period of time. Consider this option:
Go ahead and get a Yosemite - the ULTIMATE beginner's binocular. It will cost you around $100. You and your wife will be in a whole new world of viewing. It is small for a porro, light, and handles great, plus it's waterproof.

While you're enjoying the use of the Yosemite and becoming more and more of a birder, you can casually learn and test binoculars until you've found THE ONE - it could take a while, especially if you're type "A". (You will be suprised how much you will have to spend to get a significantly better view - your budget will have to increase.)

[PCH BIRDER]

I think it would be very hard to beat the Pentax DCF SP's at $350. I have them and love them, after trying a lot of the competition. I would encourage you to give them a try before making your decision. Good luck.

[AnotherNightOwl]

it could take a while, especially if you're type "A". (You will be suprised how much you will have to spend to get a significantly better view - your budget will have to increase.)

:brains: What's type "A" ?

[Macaoidh]

:brains: What's type "A" ?

Wikipedia says: Type A personality, also known as the Type A Behavior Pattern, is a set of characteristics that includes being impatient, excessively time-conscious, insecure about one's status, highly competitive, hostile and aggressive, and incapable of relaxation.[1] Type A individuals are often highly achieving workaholics who multi-task, drive themselves with deadlines, and are unhappy about the smallest of delays. They have been described as stress junkies.

When I read this, I realized that's not quite what I meant. I hardly consider myself a "stress junkie". I am one who can analyze things to an extreme. It'll take me weeks or longer to pick out a new digital camera, for example. I'll go read hours and hours of reviews and pour over them in a store. I find myself doing the same thing with binoculars. To some extent this is good, it's too easy to let the (usually unknowledgable) store salesman give his advice, and just go with it. Too much analysis gets confusing, frustrating, and usually doesn't end up in a significantly superior decision in the end. :)

I've also read a lot about the Leupolds, would you recommend the 6x or the new 8x (and why)? :)

Best,
Christopher
;)

[Chris D]

We live in the "Golden Age" of Binoculars, Bird Field Guides, Jet Travel, etc. It's only natural to research things. Another tad bit of advice is to find a store with a great many kinds of bino's and try them all. "A bird in the hand.........." - so to speak. You might be quite amazed at the difference between things, - brightness, clarity. Could add to the experience and interest in birds. A decade or two ago the gap in quality between $100 and $1000 spent was much greater than today. Something for a few hundred smackers might be what you still are using at the kid's weddings ---- when you should be paying attention to the ceremony. Find a bunch and try them all..

[Robert / Seattle]

:brains: What's type "A" ?


Reference is to Type A personality:


http://www.answers.com/topic/type-a-personality

[AnotherNightOwl]

Reference is to Type A personality:


http://www.answers.com/topic/type-a-personality

Thank you.

Did not know there was such a thing.

[Robert / Seattle]

Thank you.

Did not know there was such a thing.


A North American idiom, perhaps. Probably just goes by another name in England.

Take care.

[APSmith]

I had just looked up the Wikipedia definition myself. I had thought type "A" was more like what you described, meaning that you might tend to over-analyze (as I'm often accused of). Interesting.
Oh well.

Leupolds:
For all purpose birdwatching, I suggest the 8x (Yosemite). A 6x might make details noticeably harder to pick up.

The main weakness of the 8x Katmai is the smallish FOV of 335' (compared with a very respectable 393' of the Yosemite). Keep in mind that these linear FOVs result in about a 38% area difference, which will be significant when watching multiple birds, or searching/following in the trees. Having said that, the Katmai is still a decent option if compactness is a priority, even at it's higher price. (But, I don't really think you'd have a big problem with the Yosemite size - it is very small for a porro.)

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

My experience with your question "Can you do it all with one pair of binos?" is this:

The answer is YES - if the pair you choose are $500+ binoculars in 8x32 configuration.

Best wishes,
Bawko

[Robert / Seattle]

(Quote) ...Leupolds:
For all purpose birdwatching, I suggest the 8x (Yosemite). A 6x might make details noticeably harder to pick up.

The main weakness of the 8x Katmai is the smallish FOV of 335' (compared with a very respectable 393' of the Yosemite). Keep in mind that these linear FOVs result in about a 38% area difference, which will be significant when watching multiple birds, or searching/following in the trees. Having said that, the Katmai is still a decent option if compactness is a priority, even at it's higher price. (But, I don't really think you'd have a big problem with the Yosemite size - it is very small for a porro.) (Quote)



Good points, AP. But another potentially decisive feature bewtween these two fine choices is the minimum focus distance: 16.4 feet fot the Yosemite but only 4.9 feet for the Katmai. Could be a meaningful consideration, along with size, for our buyer.

[Wuchak]

I see now the situation. You're new to the hobby. There are SO many options to choose from. The advice is sometimes conflicting.

It might be about impossible to narrow things down in a short period of time. Consider this option:
Go ahead and get a Yosemite - the ULTIMATE beginner's binocular. It will cost you around $100. You and your wife will be in a whole new world of viewing. It is small for a porro, light, and handles great, plus it's waterproof.

While you're enjoying the use of the Yosemite and becoming more and more of a birder, you can casually learn and test binoculars until you've found THE ONE - it could take a while, especially if you're type "A". (You will be suprised how much you will have to spend to get a significantly better view - your budget will have to increase.)

I second the vote for the Yosemite 8x30. The best price I could find was $109 shipped from Eagle Optics. The price includes free return shipping if you decide to send them back within 30 days. I have Nikon Mountaineer 8x25's and the Yosemites, with that extra 5mm of objective lens, are so much brighter it shocked me. The 8x30 Yosemites are so close in size and weight to the 8x25 Nikons and provide a FOV that is so much larger, brighter, and clearer that I cannot think of many places where I would choose to take the Nikons over the them.

[Macaoidh]

Well, an update: Through much reading of many, many messages, and y'alls input here, I ended up opting for.... the Leupold Yosemite 8x30. I think the size will be acceptable, at the very least, for a "home" binocular, and likely for traveling. If it proves to be too large for that, I certainly haven't burned a lot of money, and can consider a purpose built for that. This, though, should really get us going with a great bargain binocular that should deliver a great picture, and will easily fit both of us.

Of note: The Katmai 8x32. I looked at two at two different stores. One was slightly out of collumation, and the other wasn't as sharp to my eyes as the 8x42 and 10x42 monarchs, and suffered more CA. Both, to me, were not up to the Minox BL 8x42s which had a very natural, clear view, with only very slight CA. It was very close between those and the monarch 8x42s, but I think the edge clarity was a touch better, and my eyes felt more relaxed with the Minoxs.

I saw the excursion 8x28s, wasn't really impressed. The prostaff 8x25s were not as bright, but sharper, and the excursion 8x28s paled next to any of the 8x32s I've seen (mind you at half the price). They didn't have the excursion 8x32s at any store I went to, so no real comparison there.

No store here has the Yosemite's, but I've read nothing but positive comments, so I'm going on the input from folks here. I may not be able to use them with glasses (with 14-15mm of eye relief), but I'm finding even with a bino with good eye relief, I prefer taking them off to view anyhow.

Thanks again, and I'll give you an update when I get them!

Best,
Christopher

[APSmith]

Christopher,

Good luck with your new bins when they arrive! I think you made a great choice, and a fairly low risk one. Also, keep in mind, if they don't work for you, send 'em back.

And thanks for the Katmai information. I haven't made a purchase yet. This will sound like a wierd set of options, but (for a second pair to complement my EII 8x30), I'm looking at the Katmai 6x32, Fuji CD 7x42, Minox HG 8x33, and can't rule out the ELs. I've looked at/tried a BUNCH of different models, with some close calls, but still not there. Supposedly, there are some interesting new models due out later in '07 - I may wait and see - but I'd really like to be set up for the Spring already.

Happy birding!

[Macaoidh]

This will sound like a wierd set of options, but (for a second pair to complement my EII 8x30), I'm looking at the Katmai 6x32, Fuji CD 7x42, Minox HG 8x33, and can't rule out the ELs.

Don't rule out the Katmai's just on what I said. From everything I've read on a few different reviews, the 6x32 seemed to impress where the 8x32 (which is what I was looking at), did not. I think the main reference for that was the cornell ornithology lab review. That may have also been before they phase coated the 8x32s as well (which I believe they do now).

Good luck! I haven't seen any of your other options in person.

Best,
Christopher

[Macaoidh]

Alright. I just received my 8x30 Yosemite's by UPS (they dropped them off at 10pm!). Obviously I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get to check out our backyard birds, but here are my first impressions, good, and bad.

Good: The size is fine. It's at the top of the size range I was looking for, but very small for a porro, fits into my large hands, and is quite light and well balanced. From looking across the rooms in our house, picking out details on our wall clocks, etc., the optics look nice and sharp, perhaps slightly better than the roofs I was looking at, with just a bit of fallout in detail along the outer edges. The view is nice and bright as well, but that will be seen better tomorrow. The strap that comes with it is nice, and the binoculars themselves are very handsome (I opted for the natural color).

The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare. If I'm looking at an object, and there's a light or the TV within 20 or 30 degrees or so of the binoc (but not within the picture being looked at), there is a LOT of flare and ghosting across the image. I remember looking through many different roofs, including the Nikons, Minox, Eagle Optics, and I don't recall this being an issue with a bright window and looking at another object nearby. We'll see how they work in more "real world" settings. The other thing is the focus wheel. It has "slop". There is nearly 1/4" of movement when going from near to far and back when changing directions, where the focus wheel moves, but there's no change in focus. That combined with the focus wheel being significantly harder to turn to the counterclockwise vs clockwise, makes focusing not as pleasant as nearly every roof in the $300 price range. Mind you, these are 1/3 the price. Also, for some reason with these binos as well I seem to have trouble getting a "seamless" image, where both barrels overlap without a noticeable "line" from the opposing side. I wonder if that has anything to do with a smaller exit pupil than the others I had been looking at..?

We'll see, but these may very well be going back. Perhaps I'm being too picky for a $100 pair of binoculars, but with the way folks raved about them (and another buyer who when I asked pre-purchase if his had any focus "slop", the reply was no) I had high hopes and expectations. I have no qualms at this point with the optical clarity, but the focus wheel at is driving me nuts. My best bet is probably to use them a bit outdoors, and take them to a shop with me to compare directly against my top contenders in the roof arena, which I think right now are the EO 8x32 sxt and Minox 8x42 bl.

Best,
Christopher

[Tero]

The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare. If I'm looking at an object, and there's a light or the TV within 20 or 30 degrees or so of the binoc (but not within the picture being looked at), there is a LOT of flare and ghosting across the image.
Sometimes that is coming from behind, so if you can adjust the eye cups at all, it might help. I have seen that problem in expensive bins as well.

[Babzz]

I agree with Dave Smith (and others?): a good pair for everywhere. Especially when I'm travelling, I want the best bins I can get b/c I'm most likely to see birds I've never seen before and perhaps the ONLY time I'll ever see them. I've kicked myself so many times on my travels for not having bought a better pair of bins beforehand. Though there are the weight/size and price (expensive stuff in poor countries=theft potential) considerations.

[APSmith]

Christopher,

Your comments all make sense.

I noticed some flare, but I've also noticed it in much more expensive bins. I thought it was quite acceptable for the price. It was less of a problem than the other issues I've had with some mid-priced roofs.

The focus slop didn't show up in the pair I tried. Mine wasn't silky smooth, but not bad at all.

If they do drive you crazy, definitely return them. But, being "picky" can be expensive.

BTW CameralandNY is still showing a Minox asph BD8x32BR DEMO for a good price.


APS

[Macaoidh]

Christopher,

Your comments all make sense.

I noticed some flare, but I've also noticed it in much more expensive bins. I thought it was quite acceptable for the price. It was less of a problem than the other issues I've had with some mid-priced roofs.

The focus slop didn't show up in the pair I tried. Mine wasn't silky smooth, but not bad at all.

If they do drive you crazy, definitely return them. But, being "picky" can be expensive.

BTW CameralandNY is still showing a Minox asph BD8x32BR DEMO for a good price.


APS


Thanks for those thoughts. Really the most irritating issue is the focus slop. Everything else seems reasonable, especially for the price. I'm going to give it a few days to see how they work "real world", looking at birds, and see if trying to follow them is tough to do with the focus issue. I spoke with Eagle optics (the vendor whom I purchased them from), and they checked a few other of their samples of the 8x30 Yosemite. The customer service rep I spoke with said that they all suffered from focus slop with that design to one extent or another. They were extremely helpful, and more than willing to accept a return if I am not satisfied. Kudos to EO's customer service.

Oh, and I realize that being picky can be expensive. I'm certainly in the position of trying to figure out at what point does the cost and performance curves cross for my need and budget.

Best,
Christopher

[Robert / Seattle]

Thanks for those thoughts. Really the most irritating issue is the focus slop. Everything else seems reasonable, especially for the price. I'm going to give it a few days to see how they work "real world", looking at birds, and see if trying to follow them is tough to do with the focus issue. I spoke with Eagle optics (the vendor whom I purchased them from), and they checked a few other of their samples of the 8x30 Yosemite. The customer service rep I spoke with said that they all suffered from focus slop with that design to one extent or another. They were extremely helpful, and more than willing to accept a return if I am not satisfied. Kudos to EO's customer service.

Oh, and I realize that being picky can be expensive. I'm certainly in the position of trying to figure out at what point does the cost and performance curves cross for my need and budget.

Best,
Christopher

Hi Christopher,

I'm again beginning to wonder if you should have gone with the Katmai.
As silky a focussing knob as my Zeiss FL, and center sharpness like my Leica Ultravid. And let's not forget that they're the perfect size and they close focus to less than 5 feet. While you have the chance to exchange and compare in real life field tests I'd recommend you might want to do so.

Just a thought,

Best of luck always ... Robert / Seattle

(PS. Neither have I observed any significant flare with the Katmais)

[Alexis Powell]

I just received my 8x30 Yosemite's....
The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare....
The other thing is the focus wheel. It has "slop". There is nearly 1/4"....

Hmm...these are not good qualities. I think you must have a substandard unit. I somewhat reluctantly (having promised myself not to spend any more money on cheap binos) got a Yosemite recently for my son (now that his IPD is >50 mm). He wears glasses, so I got the 6x30. The unit has ZERO focus slop and is extremely flare resistant. I'm accustomed to a bit of slop in this type of focus system, so if there had been some I wouldn't have been surprised. I'm very pleased with the performance against the light. More and more, flare is the deciding factor when I am ranking binos since it still seems to vary from model to model quite a bit, whereas centerfield resolution and color fidelity are consistently quite good in most midpriced or better binos. My only gripe with the Yosemite is that focus direction is opposite of the quasi-standard used with Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, and most, if not all Nikon binos.
--AP

[ceasar]

My 6 x 30's don't have any slop or flare either but they do have alot of flair for a $100.00 Porro! A handsome binocular, indeed!
Bob

[Wuchak]

Alright. I just received my 8x30 Yosemite's by UPS (they dropped them off at 10pm!). Obviously I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get to check out our backyard birds, but here are my first impressions, good, and bad.

Good: The size is fine. It's at the top of the size range I was looking for, but very small for a porro, fits into my large hands, and is quite light and well balanced. From looking across the rooms in our house, picking out details on our wall clocks, etc., the optics look nice and sharp, perhaps slightly better than the roofs I was looking at, with just a bit of fallout in detail along the outer edges. The view is nice and bright as well, but that will be seen better tomorrow. The strap that comes with it is nice, and the binoculars themselves are very handsome (I opted for the natural color).

The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare. If I'm looking at an object, and there's a light or the TV within 20 or 30 degrees or so of the binoc (but not within the picture being looked at), there is a LOT of flare and ghosting across the image. I remember looking through many different roofs, including the Nikons, Minox, Eagle Optics, and I don't recall this being an issue with a bright window and looking at another object nearby. We'll see how they work in more "real world" settings. The other thing is the focus wheel. It has "slop". There is nearly 1/4" of movement when going from near to far and back when changing directions, where the focus wheel moves, but there's no change in focus. That combined with the focus wheel being significantly harder to turn to the counterclockwise vs clockwise, makes focusing not as pleasant as nearly every roof in the $300 price range. Mind you, these are 1/3 the price. Also, for some reason with these binos as well I seem to have trouble getting a "seamless" image, where both barrels overlap without a noticeable "line" from the opposing side. I wonder if that has anything to do with a smaller exit pupil than the others I had been looking at..?

We'll see, but these may very well be going back. Perhaps I'm being too picky for a $100 pair of binoculars, but with the way folks raved about them (and another buyer who when I asked pre-purchase if his had any focus "slop", the reply was no) I had high hopes and expectations. I have no qualms at this point with the optical clarity, but the focus wheel at is driving me nuts. My best bet is probably to use them a bit outdoors, and take them to a shop with me to compare directly against my top contenders in the roof arena, which I think right now are the EO 8x32 sxt and Minox 8x42 bl.

Best,
Christopher

Hi Christopher,

I'll out myself as the source of the "no-slop" information. After reading your description of slop I checked both my wife's Yosemites and mine again. How did you measure the 1/4" of slop?

Looking at, not through the Yosemites, while turning the focus wheel back and forth I checked to see if there is anyplace in the travel where changing focus direction does not result in immediate movement of the eyepieces in the opposite direction. I could not find anyplace. No matter how gently I moved the focus knob in each direction it results in an immediate, if subtle, movement. I did the same test looking through them (both pairs) and when I change direction I immediately see slight change in focus that becomes very apparent after 1/16" of travel.

(some details for those who haven’t seen the Yosemites) The focus knob is rubber with a series of grip ridges. The distance from a point on one of the ridges to the same point on the next is 1/8". Going from one extreme of focus to the other takes just a bit over 1/2 a rotation of the focus knob. During that rotation 11 1/2 of the ridges pass, giving a total travel of 1 7/16”.

If you have 1/4" of slop in there I think your pair must be defective. I’m sorry your experience with the Yosemites has turned out less positive than my own.

Kind regards,
Wuchak

[Macaoidh]

Hi Christopher,

I'll out myself as the source of the "no-slop" information. After reading your description of slop I checked both my wife's Yosemites and mine again. How did you measure the 1/4" of slop?

Looking at, not through the Yosemites, while turning the focus wheel back and forth I checked to see if there is anyplace in the travel where changing focus direction does not result in immediate movement of the eyepieces in the opposite direction. I could not find anyplace. No matter how gently I moved the focus knob in each direction it results in an immediate, if subtle, movement. I did the same test looking through them (both pairs) and when I change direction I immediately see slight change in focus that becomes very apparent after 1/16" of travel.

(some details for those who haven’t seen the Yosemites) The focus knob is rubber with a series of grip ridges. The distance from a point on one of the ridges to the same point on the next is 1/8". Going from one extreme of focus to the other takes just a bit over 1/2 a rotation of the focus knob. During that rotation 11 1/2 of the ridges pass, giving a total travel of 1 7/16”.

If you have 1/4" of slop in there I think your pair must be defective. I’m sorry your experience with the Yosemites has turned out less positive than my own.

Kind regards,
Wuchak

I guess, perhaps I did not take out a pair of calipers. When moving focus from one direction to the next, and looking for movement in the eyepieces (or apparent change in focus through the binocular), it would take just over 1 ridge-to-ridge distance before there was any change in focus or movement in the eyepieces noted. I guess there may be the -slightest- movement in eyepiece before that, but nothing noted visually. If I were to focus a hairs-breadth past an object, then reverse focus knob motion, it would be a very "light" movement of the knob that amount, then you can feel the resistance increase at the same time it begins to change focus in the other direction. I guess I should be more careful when I make those distance references.

Of note, I found that our Academy stores here in town carry the 6x30s, and looking through one of those, there was much less "slop" in the motion.

The resistance difference clockwise to counterclockwise has lessened with increased usage of the new binoculars.

The nice thing about these binoculars is that even with my 41/2 year old (who I belive has an IPD of about 45, by my crude measurement), can see well through them, and can manipulate the nice large focus knob well enough to change and bring the field into focus. I was surprised that he could work them so well.

Best,
Christopher

PS I plan today to take them with me and compare them to some of the roofs I've been looking at. Should be interesting. No one in town carries the 8x30 Yosemites yet.

[Macaoidh]

Alright. I made it to Sportsman's Warehouse today, with the Yosemites in hand. They were itching for a fight, and ready to stack themselves up against the field. To make a long story short, I walked away (VERY happily) with a set of 8x42 Monarchs. I love them. All I need to do now is put a bullet in my computer. ;)

To make a short story long, for those of you interested, here's my first impression of a few different ~$300 roofs, and how they compare to each other and the Yosemites. I spent a couple of hours and hundreds of A/B comparison looking at these, so I felt like I didn't just make a snap judgement. The guy and the binocular counter must have been VERY bored, and thought me out of my mind. |:$|

The contenders: Leupold Yosemite (using at home for about 4 days) - $120; Nikon Monarch 8x42 - $289, Nikon Monarch 8x36 - $~265, Minox 8x42 BL - green - $309, Minox BD BR 8x32 - $450. You've already heard my thoughts on the Leupolds, but you'll hear a bit more as I get through this. I also looked at the Leupold 8x42 Cascades, but quickly discounted them (if you want more info I'll be happy to give my thoughts).

1) Nikon Monarch 8x42 - Overall winner for me. They were clear and sharp, with a bit of a drop off at the edges. They were a hair sharper than the Minox BLs. The Minox BD 8x32s were a hair sharper in the right eye, but not the left (sample variance?). The colors were natural, even across the spectrum, and a bit more vivid than the others. They were very bright, slightly more than the Minox 8x42 BLs. The eye relief was exceptional, allowing me full view with glasses. The Yosemites I needed to have the cups half way down with NO glasses to have a full view (strange). The handling was equal to the Minox 8x42s, being light, well balanced, and very secure. Focusing was smooth and easy, with no play/slop in the wheel. Exceptional warranty, and with small kids and packing it around in a backpack, the attached objective covers are quite nice. They suffered no flare, reflections, or glare that I could pick up in a in-store environment. Though tied for largest in size, they are no larger than the Yosemites. If you tipped the yosemites on their side, they would be the same size as these, so no real deficit there.

2) Nikon Monarch 8x36 - For me, not quite as sharp, or easy to focus with as the 8x42s. Just a bit of brightness loss, and the focus wheel was much touchier than the 8x42s. There was less eye relief, to the point where my glasses would not provide a full field. The cost difference, and size difference did not make up for the decreased handling/image for me. They, as the Monarch 8x42s, suffered no glare or reflections with all the light sources present in the store (numerous fluorescent lights, windows, and skylights).

3) Minox 8x42 BL. ALMOST went with these. Practically the same price, size, weight, balance, eye relief, and handling as the Monarch 8x42s. Nearly a clone! However, the image was just -slightly-, and I mean slightly less sharp, and the colors were a touch more "flat". Perhaps they were truly more natural than the Monarchs, but my eyes liked the colors of the Monarch a bit better, after many, many A/B comparisons inside and outside the store. The focus was slower (more revolutions to get the same effect) than the Monarchs. Some may like this. At first I thought I did, but as I played with them more, I liked the faster focusing of the Monarchs. Excellent binocs, great price. It really could have come down to pure sample variance. But in the end, I went with the Monarchs. They "spoke" to me..?

4) Minox 8x32 BD BR. These have been brought up in many discussions lately, and I was curious to try them. They are smaller than the 8x42s, but at least as heavy, and certainly feel even heavier/stouter. The eye relief was not as good as the 8x42s (either one). The focus wheel was smooth, but stiff, and this may have been just because it was new. The focusing was slower, like the BL 8x42s. The right side was tack sharp. Sharper than the Monarchs. The left was actually not quite as sharp as the right, and a bit softer than the Monarchs. This may have been a malaligned sample, but I thought that was interesting. No glare or reflections, as with all the roofs I evaluated today. Brightness was a bit less than the 8x42 Minox, and a fair amount less than the 8x42 Monarchs (not surprising) Handling was alright, but didn't feel as balanced to me. Overall, for my needs, not worth the extra money. If I HAD to have an 8x32, I'd certainly consider them, and look at another sample to check out the clarity issue.

5) Yosemite 8x30. As I really had a chance to give them a great A/B workout against many of the most popular $300 roofs, I must give credit where credit is due. These things are sharp. They gave up nothing to any of these binoculars in overall clarity, and they are surprisingly bright for a 30mm objective. There was some CA to be found with all these binos, and I think these had the least (by a small margin) of any of the above. The field of view is wider than all of them as well, which was quite noticible when compared, especially to the 8x42s. As a compact, lightweight, sharp, waterproof, inexpensive 8x bino that has great FOV, I don't think there's anything else in this price class. They aren't without flaw, however.

The things that made me spend nearly 3x as much for a PRIMARY set of binoculars are few, but important to me. First, the focus wheel issue. I may have an aberrent example, but it was smooth and heavy, not easy to turn in both directions with one finger. There was enough play/slop that it was not as easy or pleasant to hop from one focus point to another and feel like I had good control. If I overshot, it was not "graceful" to come back spot-on focus. The eye relief, while excellent for a non-glasses wearer was strange. I had full view with all the roofs with their cups fully extended, but I had to halfway retract the cups on the Yosemites, or suffer from left and right edge blackouts. I'm sure it was a combo of eye relief and a smaller, less forgiving exit-pupil. Handling is good with these, being light and well balanced, but my large hands prefered the enveloping feel of really wrapping around a set of roofs. I felt very relaxed and in control of the Monarchs and Minoxs. This is nothing against the Yosemites, just a preference that I have learned about myself about roofs vs porros. Also, and very importantly, is the issue of "flare". I likely misspoke earlier when I mentioned this. I don't see any "flare" with these, in the sense of "exploding" light point sources, but I do see a LOT of reflections and ghost imaging that is not coming from light behind, but in front. For example, indoors, when panning around the huge expanse of Sportsman's warehouse, I would constantly see ghost images of the ceiling fluorescent lights, windows, skylights, etc., when they were no where in my FOV. This happened with none of the other binocs I evaluated today. That was quite distracting.

In conclusion, for a combination of better focusing, glare/reflection resistance, handling, and warranty (in that order), I was willing to spend the extra for the Monarchs. Slightly better color rendition and low light performance were the icing. I was willing to accept the size of the Monarchs, as they are not any larger than my previous choice. Also, my wife, who was really driving the weight/size issue, had no issues with the Monarchs, as they are so well balanced.

Assuming most people's experience of no focus wheel slop, these would be a great second pair or backup pair for me. I may have to consider them in the future when the stores around here get them in stock and I can evaluate the focus on the pair I get. My wife and I can't look through the Monarchs at the same time, and these are a real bargain for the money.

If you got through all that rambling, I applaud you... :)

Best,
Christopher

[Robert / Seattle]

That more people would be as exhaustive and informed in their selection process, whatever their parameters may be ...

You deserve to be as happy as you seem to be. Good going, Christopher!

[Tero]

Thanks for the Monarch comparison, 42mm and 36mm. I have a vague recollection that the 36mm might have a smaller, relative to the fov, sweet spot. But as the fov is not the same, and I never had the two in hand at the same time, I always wondered. With no other info on hand, I would always tend toward the 42mm, as they are not much heavier at all, and in no way big or bulky. I have the 10x version.

Happy birding! kinglets and one parula were out today for me.

[ceasar]

The Yosemites are multi coated (MC) rather than fully multi coated (FMC) which might explain some of the flair and reflections seen indoors but I would think proper blackening of the interior and the inside rim of the barrels outside the objective lens's would minimize this.
Bob

[APSmith]

Christopher,

Great job on the review - very informative and sensible. I hope you enjoy your Monarchs - certainly a popular choice.

Your comments on the Minox BDBRs are quite interesting to me, as I am leaning that direction at this time - perhaps even the HGs.

APS