Which of these 8x30/8x32s would you get?

[vkalia]

I am primarily a bird photographer but am slowly getting more interested in just seeing them (although part of me will always go "if there is no photo, it doesnt count" :P).

So I am looking for a compact 8x32 model to go with my recently-ordered Pentax DCF SP 10x42. This will be for use when I am carrying my photo gear and so do not have much space to spare in the camera bag. My Bushnell something-or-the-other porros were a bit too big and bulky, and rarely got taken out.

My plan is to use the Pentax and this 8x32, until I figure out which of the two gets used more... and at that point, I will upgrade to a Top Gun optic if the incremental quality is worth it to me. But I do have some interesting trips coming up this year (including Borneo), and so I dont want to get a shabby optic either.

Also, porros are out - I need waterproofing and also find porros too bulky. I also dont care about eye-relief as I'll be using them with contact lenses. Small variations in weight between 8x32s is also not important.

I've been researching this for the better part of 2 days, and this is the shortlist that I have come up with, so far:
1/ Zeiss Conquest 8x30 BT -- top choice, but worried about flare -- $375 (demo)
2/ Pentax DCF SP 8x32 -- good all-around optics -- $300 (demo)
3/ Eagle Optics SRTs 8x32 - well reviewed, good budget optic -- $289
4/ Minox BD 8x32 -- some good reviews but not discussed a lot -- $450

Of these choices and prices, what would you get?

As I said, my first choice would be the Zeiss but I am concerned about flare. For those of you who own it, how egregious a problem has it been in the field? Of the rest, I imagine the Pentax would be steps better than the EO. Where does the Minox fit in, compared to the Pentax?

I really wish I could get my hands on them, as then I could decide for myself. However, that is not possible given my location. As such, I'll be ordering mail order. I'm willing to risk ergonomic woes for now - at the very least, it will tell me what to look for when I buy a more expensive optic.

So I'd like your advice based primarily on optical performance here: resolution, brightness, lack of "tunnel effect" (that is vital! The Zeiss has a lower FOV, but does it give a tunnel effect?), etc. Of course, if there any general usability problems in the field (poor focusing mechanism, hard to set diopter adjustment, etc.), I'd appreciate feedback there as well.

Cheers,
Vandit

[Tero]

The Conquest 8x30 has fov of 360ft, the Eagle Optics has fov 390. The sweet spot of the EO is definitely smaller than most of my roof prisms, in relative terms, so that extra 30ft of fov is going to be a bit blurry. You can see bird movement on the edge, but you have to move in on it to make out detail. Other than that, the EO I have, SRT 8x32, have been fine so far. There might be other models out there that will do the job. The cheapest Swarovski SLC 8x30 is really nice, but bulky. You will definitely see a difference with those. If you can hold off on your 8x, maybe it is worth saving up for. Or get the Pentax if you like Pentax. I have nothing against Pentax, I just do not recall them well. I think they were OK, brightness can only be tested side by side with other models.

[vkalia]

Hi Tero -

Thanks for the info. That is really good info, as it gives me a basis for comparing the EO's FOV with that of the Conquest.

Re. the SLCs - well, the question is not of budget so much as making the right choice. I dont want to get a $1000+ bino without trying it; also, I'd rather use the mid-end binos, find out what it is about them that limits me (and also let me own needs develop along with it). Then I can make an informed decision as to what would be the best buy for me. That has been my philosophy when I started out in photography as well, and it worked out ok for me.

I picked this list out b/c each of these binos appears to be pretty well regarded at its price point. I've heard the pros and cons of the EO SRTs as well as the Conquests, but not of the Pentax and the Minox.

Cheers,
Vandit

[ceasar]

The Zeiss has the narrowest FOV. The rest have 390' at 1000 yards. I can't speak for the Minox BD 8 x 32 BR Aspheric, but I have the 10 x 32 version and it is remarkably good. Bright and sharp with a "sweet spot" that covers 85% or so of the view and no flare. I would expect the 8 x 32 to be brighter, just as sharp and with an equivalent sweet spot.

BTW, if you are going to be in the Jungle alot under varying light conditions, have you considered an 8 x 42. Many are quite light in weight.

Bob

[vkalia]

Hi Bob -based on what you and Tero have said, I think the Eagle Optics is off the list.

Now we are down to 3:

1/ Zeiss - lower field of view, prone to flare but also very good optically - comparable to the top glass in many ways
2/ Minox - your recommendation on top of the few good things I have heard about them
3/ Pentax - yet to hear anything poor about them either

I dont want to bother with 8x42s, to be honest. The lighting is usually not so dark where I am that I need the larger objectives. It is more of a question of dappled light. Besides, if I can carry the 8x42s, I can carry the 10x43s and I think I'd prefer the larger magnification in that case. And for other times, the compactness of the 8x32 is going to be hard to replicate in a x42.

Right now, after getting this glass, I think I need to work on my birding skills! :)

Vandit

[APSmith]

Vandit,

You have a pretty good short list there. I have tried the Conquest and the SPs. I want to try the Minox BD, but am leaning toward their HG. Based on the reviews, the EO SRTs, although decent for the price, would not match the others overall.

The shame is that there are pros and cons with either of them - and it becomes a personal preference issue.

For me, between the Conquest and the SP:

The Conquest had the better handling/feel, great sharpness in the center, some tunnel effect, shadowy away from center (esp. in low light), smaller FOV, and more glare problems. But, I liked using them. In the end though, I couldn't get past their weaknesses.

The SP, in head to head comparison with many others, including the Conquest, was just a little better in most categories. Good color, good sweet spot, FOV, glare suppression, etc. They really don't have alot of weaknesses, and may be the best model in the price range. The problem was I just did not like using them. It may have been eye position sensitivity. It seemed to be alot of work to get "on" target and stay there. (Once there, all was good.)

All that said, I decided that I was willing to spend more to get a better set of compromises than either of them. I have not found the one yet that fits, but the Minox(s) are my hopefuls.

Incidentally, my wife has a Nikon EII 8x30 which we share. It is optically superior to just about everything, including higher prices models. They are porros though - bulky, not waterproof, and stiff focus in the cold. Plus, we need a second pair. The EII makes comparative evaluations of the better handling roofs disappointing.

Hope this helps, APS

[vkalia]

APS, thanks for that review. It does put it into perspective. I do agree that at this price point, there are going to be a lot of compromises - either in handling or that last bit of image quality. I am also starting to get a sense of the Zeiss and Pentax binos now, atleast in terms of general pros and cons.

Pentax has the advantage that it doesnt seem to be too bad at anything. But all else being equal, I would prefer a different brand just to get a sense of how different binos match up in the field.

Any Minox users out there care to chime in? Or would it be worth it for me to up my budget to $600 or so?

Cheers,
Vandit

[Marko_]

Any Minox users out there care to chime in?


Not yet, but I have ordered a BD 8x32 BR asph. !

Hopefully it will be arriving in a week or so, so if you can hang on a bit before you decide on anything, I can tell you about it as soon as I get it!

Marko

[vkalia]

Excellent - thanks, Marko. I look forward to hearing your review of this bino.

Cheers,
Vandit

[ceasar]

I just remembered, did you consider the Nikon 8 x 36 Monarch? $250.00 US funds. Weighs 19.8 Ounces. FOV 367 feet. Waterproof etc. Monarchs have been very well received by the buying public. You should be able to find one easier than the others you have listed.
Bob

[vkalia]

Hi Bob - yes, I did. Compared to them, I think the binos on my shortlist appear to offer better quality, and also suffer less from sample variation. Given the costs of international shipping, and my inability to do A/B comparisons, I'd rather pay a bit more and get more.

One interesting candidate for me were the Leopold Katmais, but their FoV is abysmal.

Cheers,
Vandit

[APSmith]

This thread is quite interesting. It seems that you have narrowed down the possibles quite well. You asked a question that many seem to asking: "should I bump my budget to $600?". It seems that for 50% more, the mfgs could get the negatives worked out of the Conquests or the SPs. But, it's hard to really gain anything on the SP at even double the price (good example would be Kahles). At say $800, you can still find SLC (old style) 8x30; BUT, the focus end is goofy. The next real option seems to be the Nikon LXLs at $950 (three times the Monarch price) - then you're really in sight of the other top stuff, so it's a different situation.

To make it worse, Meopta and Vortex have not offered an 8x30/32/36 in this range. It could be a big seller if they did it right. A non-open hinge (so the focuser isn't such a challenge) Razor, in 8x32 would interest me.

Keep in mind, I haven't tried the Minox(s) at all. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that possibility (especially the HG) - may just have to order one and try it.

APS

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

The Minox BD 8x32's are great binoculars! They are my own most-used pair, not my favorite, but the ones I grab the most often now when heading out the door. They have a magnificent 400' FOV, are bright and sharp, and weigh less than most other high-end 8x32 options. The focus wheel is tight and responsive, and so far they have proven to be as rugged and waterproof as I could want. I purchased mine half off at a closeout sale, making them the best binocular bargain I've ever found too...

Best wishes,
Bawko

[APSmith]

The Minox BD 8x32's are great binoculars! They are my own most-used pair, not my favorite, but the ones I grab the most often now when heading out the door.

Bawko,

I'm glad you chimed in. As I recall from a previous post, you preferred these over the SPs.

? How do they compare with your favorites? and what are they?
? Does the focus get stiff in the cold?
? Is the glare under control?

Thanks much, APS

[cbushme]

Or would it be worth it for me to up my budget to $600 or so?
Vandit

I still see the older Nikon LX 8x32's selling for under $600. These only weight about an ounce more than the newer LXL's and are in my opinion a slight step above the others you are considering. I owned a Leica 8x32BN and the Nikon LX 8x32 together for a long time and after using and comparing them pretty extensively I ended up selling the Leica. Some think the focus on the Nikon is too fast, but I find it is easily adjusted to. The only negatives I can think of is the rubber covering seems not to wear that well cosmetically and because of the location of the strap lugs they don't hang as nice as they should.

[vkalia]

APS - that is pretty much exactly my thinking as well. I dont mind upping my budget to $500-600, but if I am going to spend 900 smackeroos, I might as well go for broke and spend 1400. But that has to come later.

And based on everything I've read, the Pentax and Minox are top on the list, and I really havent read of any binoculars that are a few hundred dollars more which are substantially better. I think this is pretty much the sweet spot in value binos - and the Cornell Univ's much-maligned report also supports this indication.

So now we are down to 2.... and I am indeed leaning more towards the Minox.

Bawko - thanks for your thoughts on the Minox. May I know what it is about them that prevents them from being your favorites, despite the fact that you use them most? And I am indeed looking forward to your answers to APS's questions as well.

CBushme - I'll keep an eye out for those Nikon LXs. If I can get them sub-$600 from a reputable outlet, then yeah, I'd be very interested in buying them as well.

Vandit

[ceasar]

Vandit,
I have a Nikon 8 x 32 LXL that I paid $850.00 for and an older Nikon 8 x 30 E2 Porro that cost me $250.00; both new. Frankly, they are both so good that I wouldn't consider spending more than $1,000.00 for any 8 x 30/32! Even at today's prices. You can still get a Swaro 8 x 30 SLC for $999.00 as far as I know. The others cost 30% more and they simply cannot be 30% better. Nuff said!
Bob

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

Bawko,

I'm glad you chimed in. As I recall from a previous post, you preferred these over the SPs.

? How do they compare with your favorites? and what are they?
? Does the focus get stiff in the cold?
? Is the glare under control?

Thanks much, APS

APS, you ask a lot of questions - so I'll try and reply with a lot of answers! :)

First off, you say that I "preferred these [Minox 8x32 BD] over the SPs". This is not ENTIRELY correct - because of your wording. My favorite pair of full-size 10x binoculars is the Pentax 10x50 SP. I love them for their AMAZING brightness in low-light conditions, combined with their excellent focus control. If you are saying that I prefer the 8x32 Minox over the Pentax 8x32 SPs, you would be correct - the Minox have better FOV, better brightness, and (at least to my eyes) better color rendition.

Your next question is how they Minox 8x32 compare to my favorites, and what are they [My favorites, I assume]. This is a fairly easy to answer. My 3 favorite binoculars of ALL TIME are these:

Leica Trinovid BN 7x42 (All-time favorite-of-the-favorites!)
Nikon HG (LX) 8x32
Nikon HG (LX) 10x25

As for how the Minox BD 8x32 compares to these three, it is a more difficult question to answer. You see, the three are completely different optics, with different purposes and intended uses. Probably the easiest to compare is the Nikon HG (LX) 8x32, being of the same configuration and roughly the same size. How does the Minox compare to the Nikon? Pretty straightforward - the Nikon is a bit sharper and has much more "vivid" color rendition - but at the expense of WEIGHT. If the Nikon HG 8x32 didn't weigh as much as they did, they would be the near-perfect implementation of an 8x32 binocular. I've tried the new HGL (LXL) 8x32, and feel that it is ALMOST the holy grail of general-purpose binoculars, but they STILL too heavy - almost 1/4 lb. heavier than the Minox. For me, weight trumps almost ALL other concerns when you're talking about 4-8 hours of continuous birding... I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of color rendition, sharpness, or FOV to attain a more enjoyable long-term experience (which almost ALWAYS translates to lower weight!). There are exceptions, as with everything else, but overall I just prefer lightweight binoculars.

That brings me to the next binocular on the list of my 3 favorites. The Nikon HG (LX) 10x25. These are ALMOST the most perfect binoculars ever created. If it weren't for their less-than-satisfactory low-light performance and high magnification (which leads to ALL SORTS of optical undesireability), they would be perfect. I love the light weight. I love the sharpness from edge-to-edge (the BEST that I've ever seen in ANY configuration binocular). I've even grown to appreciate the unconventional front-mounted focus wheel. However, I'm a fan of low-magnification optics for many reasons - including FOV, brightness, relaxed ease-of-use, and depth of field. These are the areas where these binoculars fall short - and lower-power optics like the 8x32 and 7x42 offerings really excel.

That brings me to my favorite binoculars of all time. The amazing Leica Trinovid BN 7x42. I can't possibly say enough in praise of these fantastic optics. I feel that I am one of the luckiest human beings on the planet for having the undeserved fortune of not only having the experience of looking through these instruments, but actually OWNING a pair. No other optics have EVER thrilled me to the extent of the Leicas... for my eyes they are simply as good as it gets! They have ALL of the benefits of low-power optics, combined with a focus wheel that is as perfect as I could ever ask for, and a ruggedized casing that gives me EXTREME confidence in their ability to maintain those crystal vivid views for as long as I will live. The first time I looked through them, I knew that I had found THE binoculars for me - the perfect mate for the eyes I was born with. Can the Minox compare to this? Hardly. I'm willing to put up with the weight for the awe-inpiring VIEW of the 7x42's, but not all the time.

Which brings me back to the Minox BD 8x32. It just fills the perfect "center-spot" that would result if you could somehow combine the features of the other 3 "favorite" binoculars into one package. It does nothing perfect (like each of the other 3 do in their own way) but just does everything good enough - and excels just enough that it continues to be the one I grab for most journeys out the door in search of birds.

Best wishes,
Bawko

[ceasar]

I also share Bawko's enthusiasm for the Leica 7 x 42 BN Trinovid. It is my primary birding binocular and it is absolutly superb in all respects.

As noted above, I also own the Nikon 8 x 32 LXL. It weighs 24.5 Oz. as does the 10x version. My Minox BD 10 x 32 BR ASPH weighs 22.3 oz. The 8x version weighs 21.87 ounces according to my Minox instruction booklet. (Minox's less expensive BL 8 x 32 BR weighs 18.5 0z.).

My question is this. Is just under 3 ounces of weight difference significant? Thats the difference between the Nikon 8x and the Minox BD 8x.

Cordially,
Bob

[denco@comcast.n]

Greetings!



APS, you ask a lot of questions - so I'll try and reply with a lot of answers! :)

First off, you say that I "preferred these [Minox 8x32 BD] over the SPs". This is not ENTIRELY correct - because of your wording. My favorite pair of full-size 10x binoculars is the Pentax 10x50 SP. I love them for their AMAZING brightness in low-light conditions, combined with their excellent focus control. If you are saying that I prefer the 8x32 Minox over the Pentax 8x32 SPs, you would be correct - the Minox have better FOV, better brightness, and (at least to my eyes) better color rendition.

Your next question is how they Minox 8x32 compare to my favorites, and what are they [My favorites, I assume]. This is a fairly easy to answer. My 3 favorite binoculars of ALL TIME are these:

Leica Trinovid BN 7x42 (All-time favorite-of-the-favorites!)
Nikon HG (LX) 8x32
Nikon HG (LX) 10x25

As for how the Minox BD 8x32 compares to these three, it is a more difficult question to answer. You see, the three are completely different optics, with different purposes and intended uses. Probably the easiest to compare is the Nikon HG (LX) 8x32, being of the same configuration and roughly the same size. How does the Minox compare to the Nikon? Pretty straightforward - the Nikon is a bit sharper and has much more "vivid" color rendition - but at the expense of WEIGHT. If the Nikon HG 8x32 didn't weigh as much as they did, they would be the near-perfect implementation of an 8x32 binocular. I've tried the new HGL (LXL) 8x32, and feel that it is ALMOST the holy grail of general-purpose binoculars, but they STILL too heavy - almost 1/4 lb. heavier than the Minox. For me, weight trumps almost ALL other concerns when you're talking about 4-8 hours of continuous birding... I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of color rendition, sharpness, or FOV to attain a more enjoyable long-term experience (which almost ALWAYS translates to lower weight!). There are exceptions, as with everything else, but overall I just prefer lightweight binoculars.

That brings me to the next binocular on the list of my 3 favorites. The Nikon HG (LX) 10x25. These are ALMOST the most perfect binoculars ever created. If it weren't for their less-than-satisfactory low-light performance and high magnification (which leads to ALL SORTS of optical undesireability), they would be perfect. I love the light weight. I love the sharpness from edge-to-edge (the BEST that I've ever seen in ANY configuration binocular). I've even grown to appreciate the unconventional front-mounted focus wheel. However, I'm a fan of low-magnification optics for many reasons - including FOV, brightness, relaxed ease-of-use, and depth of field. These are the areas where these binoculars fall short - and lower-power optics like the 8x32 and 7x42 offerings really excel.

That brings me to my favorite binoculars of all time. The amazing Leica Trinovid BN 7x42. I can't possibly say enough in praise of these fantastic optics. I feel that I am one of the luckiest human beings on the planet for having the undeserved fortune of not only having the experience of looking through these instruments, but actually OWNING a pair. No other optics have EVER thrilled me to the extent of the Leicas... for my eyes they are simply as good as it gets! They have ALL of the benefits of low-power optics, combined with a focus wheel that is as perfect as I could ever ask for, and a ruggedized casing that gives me EXTREME confidence in their ability to maintain those crystal vivid views for as long as I will live. The first time I looked through them, I knew that I had found THE binoculars for me - the perfect mate for the eyes I was born with. Can the Minox compare to this? Hardly. I'm willing to put up with the weight for the awe-inpiring VIEW of the 7x42's, but not all the time.

Which brings me back to the Minox BD 8x32. It just fills the perfect "center-spot" that would result if you could somehow combine the features of the other 3 "favorite" binoculars into one package. It does nothing perfect (like each of the other 3 do in their own way) but just does everything good enough - and excels just enough that it continues to be the one I grab for most journeys out the door in search of birds.

Best wishes,
Bawko



I have to second that on the Leica 7x42 BN's. I have had every binocular made(Slight exaggeration) and they are the BEST view and construction of any thing.

Dennis

[APSmith]

Bawko,

Sorry about bombarding you so with questions. Nonetheless, thanks for your answers. Between you and the others, I'm about convinced I need a top quality 7x42.

BUT ... you make a darn good case for the Minox. Incidentally, I tried out the 8x32 Nikon LXL for a short period (days) over a year ago. In a way, it was like the SP (yes, 8x32) for me, in that it compared favorably to about anything in about any category - yet, overall, it just lacked something - I believe it was the handling.

It's fun to drive a nice sportscar, when the situation is right and you can appreciate it. Likewise, sometimes a luxury ride is more suitable, or, on a different day, a minivan. But, most days, in variable conditions, an old style Jeep Cherokee is gonna suit my needs best, plus - I just like driving it (not because it's fast, or handles well, or rides smooth) - it just works and feels good in most situations. Oh yeah - it also cost less than the others.

I'm getting my hopes up along these lines about the Minox.

APS

[vkalia]

Bawko, Bob, APS and others - thanks for some very useful info. I am ordering a Minox 8x32 BD BR today. A collective round of cyber-beers for everyone, as a thank you for your help!

Cheers,
Vandit