Which bin for 700$

[Emmanuele]

Hi all, I'm a newbie in birdwatching and this is my first post.
First of all, I would like to apologize with all of you for my bad English...o:D
So, here's the fact:
In July I will be in California for my honey moon, and I would like to buy there a bin, since the prices are quite cheaper compared to the ones in my country.
The questions are:

1)Which is the best bin available for about 700$ ? I was looking on Steiner Merlin ones, but I changed my mind since I've red not many posts about it... So would you please suggest me some other good bin for 700 bucks ?
2)Is there a good shop in California with reasonable price where to buy my bin ?

Thank you in advance for your help !

Regards to all




Emmanuele

[delia todd]

Hi Emmanuele and welcome to Bird Forum from all the Staff and Moderators

I'm sure someone will be along shortly with some ideas for you. Meanwhile I hope you enjoy browsing the forums

D

[FrankD]

I am not sure which configuration you are considering but at the $700 price point, or slightly under, I would consider the following and not in any order:

1. 8x42 Vortex Razor
2. 8x32 Pentax DCF ED
3. 8x32 Kahles
4. 7x42 or 8x42 Meopta Meostar (some places have them close to that price)
5. 8x32 Nikon SE
6. 8x32 Nikon LX (refurbished)
7. Minox 8x33 or 8.5x42 HG

Maybe someone from that side of the country can suggest a place or two to look at some of these bins.

[APSmith]

I am not sure which configuration you are considering but at the $700 price point, or slightly under, I would consider the following and not in any order:

1. 8x42 Vortex Razor
2. 8x32 Pentax DCF ED
3. 8x32 Kahles
4. 7x42 or 8x42 Meopta Meostar (some places have them close to that price)
5. 8x32 Nikon SE
6. 8x32 Nikon LX (refurbished)
7. Minox 8x33 or 8.5x42 HG

Maybe someone from that side of the country can suggest a place or two to look at some of these bins.

I agree that these are good suggestions. I would add the Swaro SLC 8x30 refurbs (although a little higher price) and the Zeiss ClassiC 8x30. I also think that the $700 price point should afford a top notch bino with no objectionable weaknesses compared to the very best - but I'm not completely sure that it will in the current market (possible exception being the SE). It seems difficult for most, including myself, to pay that much and not be completely satisfied. Your individual needs and preferences will be the determining factor.

That said, if you can find the Nikon LXL 8x32 at an affordable price, I suggest you try it. Unless you just don't get along with the handling, you will likely be completely satisfied, regardless of comparisons.

Frank: Could you take a stab at narrowing and/or ordering the list for a one bino all-arounder for yourself? (I know that's a tall order, but ...)

APS

[matt green]

I'd try and track down a secondhand Leica trinovid 7x42/8x42/8x32

I know the idea of buying secondhand doesn't always appeal but these things
are as good as they come in my opinion, also if you find a good pair and look after them you will lose no money if you ever chose to upgrade.

The old 8x32 BA trinovids I recently purchased (even with a damaged objective lense!) beats anything new for the price I paid for them.

A Swarovski 7x42/10x42 SLC model might be another option

Best of luck which ever you choose, oh and welcome to Birdforum!

Matt

[ThoLa]

1)Which is the best bin available for about 700$ ? I was looking on Steiner Merlin ones, but I changed my mind since I've red not many posts about it... So would you please suggest me some other good bin for 700 bucks ?
Thank you in advance for your help !

Regards to all
Emmanuele


Try to find Zeiss Conquest.
They are optically fantastic. In the USA they are MUCH cheaper than in Europe.

That' what I would do if I were to go there.
Cheers,
Thomas

[Emmanuele]

FrankD: thanks very much for your list ! There are many bin to choose ! I'm particular impressed by Vortex and Minox performance, maybe I'll choose them ! What do you think about Zeiss conquest series ?

matt: thank you for your advice, but I'm not sure I could find an used one since I will be in the USA not for a very long time.

Thola: I thought the very much expensive than I expected, but the conquest 10X40 can be found for 800 dollars... I will think about it

Hope someone will suggest me soon or later a good shop in Californa. In the meanwhile thanks to everybody for the advices !

[Pinewood]

Emmanuelle,

Where in California will you be? It is a large state.

Remember that you have to examine the binoculars, carefully, as you may not have an opportunity to return them to the shop.

Ciao,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

[ThoLa]

What do you think about Zeiss conquest series ?

Thola: I thought the very much expensive than I expected, but the conquest 10X40 can be found for 800 dollars... I will think about it




Eagle Optics has got the 8x30 Conquest for 480 US dollars, that's 352 Euros!
In Germany they can be had for 500 Euros (that's a 30% difference).

See here:
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3900

You may download a very interesting comparative recent test from here:
http://www.leica-camera.de/service/downloads/binoculars_for_hunting/ultravid_32/index.html

See: Stiftung Warentest 9/2006.

Maybe it helps you with the decision.

Regards,
Thomas

[Emmanuele]

For Pinewood: I'll be some days in San Francisco, then I'll move to Yosemite and Sequoia national park. Then head to Los Angeles, and I'll spend some days there, finally I'll move from LA to Las Vegas. As far as you know is there some good shop nearby my route ?

For Thola: I see Zeiss optics are quite cheaper in the USA than Europe. However I don't understand german so I wasn't able to understand the review... Well thanks anyway for your help :t:

[Tero]

The 700-1200 range is still a small number of binoculars. Between 500-700 quite a lot more these days. I have never been impressed by any Steiners. Frank has good suggestions.
If you want 8x, the Zeiss Conquest 8x30 B T* goes for about 500 these days. The main complaint with Zeiss is slow warranty repairs, poor communications.

[ThoLa]

The main complaint with Zeiss is slow warranty repairs, poor communications.

No problem with that in Germany. Excellent feedback here.
maybe it's an american problem (?).

You pay a lot less ....
so stop complaining.

Full prize-Tom

[Pinewood]

Emanuelle,

I do not know those cities well. However, I should let you know that Eagle Optics, mentioned elsewhere, is an online and mail order shop.

Un buon viaggio,
Arthur

[Tero]

No problem with that in Germany. Excellent feedback here.
maybe it's an american problem (?).

You pay a lot less ....
so stop complaining.

Full prize-Tom
But the $ is worst ever, so we really are not better off with binoculars shopping, compared to 5 years ago.

[APSmith]

Emmanuele,

If Zeiss is your preference, you should NOT get the Conquest. Instead, get the ClassiC which I mentioned in post#4. I compared them head to head a while back, along with the Nikon LXL. The ClassiC is without question a better view than the Conquest. It has a wider FOV, better sweet spot, and less problems with flare/glare. The LXL is even better overall, although I thought the ClassiC was slightly sharper in the very center.

The ClassiC is still available from Binoculars.com for under $700.00 with a 7-day trial period.

Good luck,
APS

[chartwell99]

Emmanuele,

If Zeiss is your preference, you should NOT get the Conquest. Instead, get the ClassiC which I mentioned in post#4. I compared them head to head a while back, along with the Nikon LXL. The ClassiC is without question a better view than the Conquest. It has a wider FOV, better sweet spot, and less problems with flare/glare. The LXL is even better overall, although I thought the ClassiC was slightly sharper in the very center.

The ClassiC is still available from Binoculars.com for under $700.00 with a 7-day trial period.

Good luck,
APS

The ClassiC is a fantastic binocular - wonderful wide angle views, extremely handy size and weight, and build quality unavailable from any (repeat, any) of the current Zeiss models. Downsides (which in my view are greatly outweighed by the positives) are eyeglass unfriendly old-timey rubber eyecups and lack of immersion waterproofing. Another strong recommendation if you can find one is the Swarovski 8 x 30 Habicht Traditional - similar views to the Zeiss ClassiC, similar eyecup woes but this unique porro is nitrogen purged and totally waterproof.

[APSmith]

I just checked the Binoculars.com site:

It appears that the ClassiC 8x30s are all gone. (They were on there for at least 18 months.)

Sorry.

[Emmanuele]

Well to be honest, I was looking at least for a 40mm diameter... But as far as I know a 40mm lens requires much more accuracy during realization compared to 30mm one. So I think that 30mm Zeiss or Leica are far better than other brands... In a few words, my mind is completely messed up, I sincerly don't know what to choose.... :brains: :brains: :brains: I found quite good performance on Minox, Vortex, and Meopta... Are they good as Zeiss conquest/ClassiC ?
Another question, how important is nitrogen purging ? Should it be a mandatory feature or not ?
Thank you again for your help !

[Tero]

Well to be honest, I was looking at least for a 40mm diameter... But as far as I know a 40mm lens requires much more accuracy during realization compared to 30mm one. So I think that 30mm Zeiss or Leica are far better than other brands... In a few words, my mind is completely messed up, I sincerly don't know what to choose.... :brains: :brains: :brains: I found quite good performance on Minox, Vortex, and Meopta... Are they good as Zeiss conquest/ClassiC ?
Another question, how important is nitrogen purging ? Should it be a mandatory feature or not ?
Thank you again for your help !
The nitrogen purging is not that important in the short run. But it means they are sealed for water, the main benefit.

You are right to shop for 40mm, and there should be some decent models out there. But I also think there are many OK 8x30 and 8x32 models.

My comments on Zeiss Eye Cups, goes for 8x40 and 10x40.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=83092

[FrankD]

Frank: Could you take a stab at narrowing and/or ordering the list for a one bino all-arounder for yourself? (I know that's a tall order, but ...)



I'd rather not. ;) My preferences change almost daily. There are so many wonderful things to like about each and every one of this bins. Out of the group I have tried I would rank them as.....

1. Meopta Meostar
2. Vortex Razor
3. Nikon SE
4. Nikon LX (32 mm)
5. Kahles (32 mm)

I have not tried the Minox HG or Pentax ED yet but others whose opinions I trust speak highly of both of them. The Zeiss Conquest ABK 8x40s are a fine set of binoculars and compare directly with others in this price range. Their only downside compared to some of the others I listed is their field of view at around 360 feet. I prefer 8x bins with fields of view of close to or better than 400 feet. The apparent field of view is addicting at that level.

Emmanuelle,

It is a shame you are going to be on the other side of the country and for only a brief bit of time. I am looking to sell the Razors.

[Marko_]

I found quite good performance on Minox, Vortex, and Meopta... Are they good as Zeiss conquest/ClassiC ?



In this test, Minox BD BR is better than Zeiss Conquest, and Minox HG should be even better!

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/Publications/LivingBird/winter2005/Age_Binos.html

I have tried the Conquest, and didn't like it.

Marko

[ThoLa]

I found quite good performance on Minox, Vortex, and Meopta... Are they good as Zeiss conquest/ClassiC ?



NO WAY!


"Thola: I see Zeiss optics are quite cheaper in the USA than Europe. However I don't understand german so I wasn't able to understand the review... "

You may just have a look at the table summarizing the results. Everything you need is in simple numbers and +/- symbols.
Have a look at "optische eigenschaften" (optical properties) and "Detailerkennbarkeit" (resolving power)
. It shows nicely the differences, in case you are primarily looking for optical performance.

T

[Emmanuele]

It is a shame you are going to be on the other side of the country and for only a brief bit of time. I am looking to sell the Razors.

Yeah, I know... But I'll be in CA for almost 3 weeks, and I couldn't ask my boss for more holiday... Maybe next year I will visit the east part of US. Anyway I'm sure you won't find any difficult selling the razors since they are a very good equipment.

So I spent the night thinking about which bin would be better, and finally I decided that I will choose between Minox, Meopta, Nikon, Zeiss and Vortex only after tried them all... I came to the conclusion that choosing a bin, it's first of all a matter of LOOK, TRY, and FEEL... At least IMHO ;)

[Marko_]

I found quite good performance on Minox, Vortex, and Meopta... Are they good as Zeiss conquest/ClassiC ?



NO WAY!


"Thola: I see Zeiss optics are quite cheaper in the USA than Europe. However I don't understand german so I wasn't able to understand the review... "

You may just have a look at the table summarizing the results. Everything you need is in simple numbers and +/- symbols.
Have a look at "optische eigenschaften" (optical properties) and "Detailerkennbarkeit" (resolving power)
. It shows nicely the differences, in case you are primarily looking for optical performance.

T


I don't see a Minox HG, a Vortex, a Meopta, or Zeiss Classic in that test, Thomas.
So what are you actually comparing?

Marko

[Emmanuele]

You may just have a look at the table summarizing the results. Everything you need is in simple numbers and +/- symbols.
Have a look at "optische eigenschaften" (optical properties) and "Detailerkennbarkeit" (resolving power)
. It shows nicely the differences, in case you are primarily looking for optical performance.

T

Yes I've seen, but I suppose the conquest 8X30 should be directly comparable to 8X40 bins provided by other brands such Minox, Vortex, Nikon etc. However I'm still sure that I need to try before buy...

[ThoLa]

However I'm still sure that I need to try before buy...

THAT'S TRUE!

I appreciate that your mind feels messed after the spin on this forum.
It will be best you forget all the rubbish and try to find a good shop which has lots of models on exhibition.

Good luck.
Thomas

[Tero]

Frank, have you checked out any of the Stokes Vortex series?
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4092
Seems to be a rebate, so almost in the $700 range now

[marcus]

I'm going to spend some money for a binocular I just heard about today, a Burris Euro Diamond. The 8x42 costs $697 from the online place that I'm going to buy them. Am I going to be spending money for something good?

[APSmith]

I'd rather not. ;)

1. Meopta Meostar
2. Vortex Razor
3. Nikon SE
4. Nikon LX (32 mm)
5. Kahles (32 mm)

... I prefer 8x bins with fields of view of close to or better than 400 feet.

Frank,

Thanks for the ranking.

I'm reluctantly beginning to think that, all things considered, the LX(L) may just be the best option for a mid-size do-all bin. While no bin is the best in every single aspect, it may be that the LXL presents the most appealing set of compromises, and at a significantly lower price than it's rivals. (But, why do I not want to come to that conclusion?)

Good luck Emmanuele.

[Swedpat]

I would like to say: don't care too much of that ED-speak. For the most of people chromatic abberation isn't noticable at all when using the small magnifications of a normal binocular. It's when you exceed 20x you can really talk about CA. I have a Pentax 8x43 DCF SP and have not until now noticed CA at any object, daytime or nighttime. Therefore I would not consider to pay nearly twice the price for the new DCF ED if the image quality otherwise isn't superior to the DCF SP.

I recently got a 66mm APO ED astronomical tube. Colour free at the most objects up to 300x. It's on the extreme the ED really makes difference.

Regards, Patric

[John Russell]

Emmanuele,

I can thoroughly endorse Frank's recommendation of the Meopta Meostar B1, which I think will stand comparison with Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss.
The 7x42 is listed here: http://www.armishop.it/ in Italy for €666 and they would no doubt also be able to supply the 8x42. Should you ever require service it would be better to buy at home.

John

[Emmanuele]

for John: I wouldn't buy in Italy since prices are are too much expensive. I'll spend my hooney moon in the US, so I plan to buy it there...
I don't have any doubt about the quality of meopta optics but as far as I see their stuff are not so easy to find.

for Swedpat: I totally agree with you, I've got the idea that 1500-2000 $ bins aren't far far far better than 700-800 $ bins. I maybe wrong since I've never tried such bins, if so please someone correct me :brains:

[Sancho]

Sorry I can´t give you any advice on which binos to buy in the States, but heartiest congratulations to you and your beloved on your upcoming marriage, and have a great honeymoon! Advice from a married birder, which I´m sure others will back up: make sure you are absolutely satisfied with your first purchase, because repeated "upgrades" can lead to raised eyebrows and temporary disturbances of marital bliss;) .

[Emmanuele]

...heartiest congratulations to you and your beloved on your upcoming marriage, and have a great honeymoon!.

Thank you very much Sancho for you wishes ! You are very kind ! ;)


Advice from a married birder, which I´m sure others will back up: make sure you are absolutely satisfied with your first purchase, because repeated "upgrades" can lead to raised eyebrows and temporary disturbances of marital bliss;) .

You are ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!! |:D| |:D| |:D| That's why I asked for advice from other birders ! I'm sure I won't have any chance of "upgrade"... |:(| At least not before some years now ! |:D|

[Chris D]

A popular thing to do in California is to drive from San Francisco up to Mendocino on the coastal route 1. It'll be foggy in July though, but still beautiful. In Mendocino there is an excellent binocular shop, "Out of This World".

[ThoLa]

So I think that 30mm Zeiss or Leica are far better than other brands... In a few words, my mind is completely messed up, I sincerly don't know what to choose....

Hi!

What about these:

http://cgi.ebay.it/ZEISS-CONQUEST-8x30-BT-binocolo-compatto_W0QQitemZ220108545375QQihZ012QQcategoryZ1 35219QQcmdZViewItem


Optically, there is nothing better in this price range.
Cheers,
Thomas

[Emmanuele]

...drive from San Francisco up to Mendocino on the coastal route 1. ... In Mendocino there is an excellent binocular shop, "Out of This World".

Thanks very much for the advice Chris, however I don't plan to see Mendocino and the costal region of CA, instead I will visit parks region.

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

http://www.binoculars.com/ Will ship to the UK if thats of use to anyone.

[CSG]

You will be shortchanging yourself if you don't seek out a pair of Nikon SE 8x32's and try them. They are the only binoculars at your stated price point that will rival (or better) the best 8x30 class roof binoculars from the Big 3.

[Emmanuele]

You will be shortchanging yourself if you don't seek out a pair of Nikon SE 8x32's and try them. They are the only binoculars at your stated price point that will rival (or better) the best 8x30 class roof binoculars from the Big 3.

I must trust you, since I've heard many good reviews about SE 8X32. The problem is that it's a very hard to find bin, and to be honest I would like to have at least a 40mm optics.
Anyway thank you for your advice.

[DFBHeron]

I must trust you, since I've heard many good reviews about SE 8X32. The problem is that it's a very hard to find bin, and to be honest I would like to have at least a 40mm optics.
Anyway thank you for your advice.


IN my mind by far the best binos for the $ are the German made Docter 10-40's (or is it 42's--and mind you, these are the most expensive binos I've bought, even though I've owned less expensive nikons & pentax, and zeiss diafuns, steiner 8x30 porros). Bought mine on ebay here in the US for $400, but I see them selling there now for 500-600 USD. I then bought attached style lens covers from Eagle Optics and haven't looked back. Awesome binos!

[CHenry]

Hi all, I'm a newbie in birdwatching and this is my first post.
First of all, I would like to apologize with all of you for my bad English...o:D
So, here's the fact:
In July I will be in California for my honey moon, and I would like to buy there a bin, since the prices are quite cheaper compared to the ones in my country.
The questions are:

1)Which is the best bin available for about 700$ ? I was looking on Steiner Merlin ones, but I changed my mind since I've red not many posts about it... So would you please suggest me some other good bin for 700 bucks ?
2)Is there a good shop in California with reasonable price where to buy my bin ?

Thank you in advance for your help !

Regards to all




Emmanuele

You might consider the Meopta Meostar binoculars which at online discount would be about your price. With those, you would be getting the level of quality of the top class brands.

[Stevief]

Question for FrankD

Hi FrankD and everyone

I was reading your reviews with some enthusiasm as I have bought a pair of Razors 8x42's and it seemed money well spent. This especially so in Europe as you pay a lot for Leica et al, and they are definitly out of my budget! You obviously have a lot of bins so I was wondering why sell the Razors?

Incidentally, the Razors are getting really favourable reviews from top optics outlets in the UK. Stopped me buying a pair of Opticrons, which would of cost another £160 than the Razors and not rated as highly.

Steve

[Tero]

Why sell? So you can buy a different one of course! It is not just for good views you buy them, you want to see the whole binocular world. Unfortunately, one at a time.

[Emmanuele]

Hi all !
I'm just back from my honeymoon... What a wonderful place CA ! Me and my really do want to come back there a soon as possibile ! Concerning the bin, I choose the 10X30 Conquest. I bought it from Scopecity in San Francisco, and I could compare it with other Pentax, Bushnell, Brunton and Fujinon... Well to be honest the Zeiss was far sharper and clearer than the other bins. Just the Pentax was almost at the same level.

Then we went to Yosemite and Sequoia national parks where I saw some acorn woodpecker, some peregrine falcons, some clark nutcracker, and a lot of lovely steller's jay ! They are beautiful ! I was totally impressed by their glazing blue color ! Last but not least a couple of Hummingbirds... They are the most amazing birds God has ever created ;) ;) ;)

Sorry for the little OT, thanks to everybody for helping me to choose the right bin. And thanks to all people from California for their kindess and hospitality ;)

[Tero]

Congrats on the Zeiss. I went for the bigger 10x40, as I have never quite made up my mind about 10x30 for any model. Does it keep most things in focus in the area you are looking, or do you see loss of focus just a foot back or so?

[FrankD]

Glad to see you were happy with your choice and that you had a great trip. It sounds like you found the bin for you. I currently have a pair of the 8x30s and find them quite useful for a variety of situations. The 8x40s should be here soon too. ;-)

[Emmanuele]

...Does it keep most things in focus in the area you are looking, or do you see loss of focus just a foot back or so?

Well, IMHO since I'm a newbie I found the same issue on my bin too... Focus is lost some meters back the target. I maybe wrong but I didn't pay to much attention to this issue since I tought it is a normal behaviour. Am I wrong ?

[Tero]

Depends on how far or close the thing is. The worst ever was a small 10x pair I had, where the front of the bird was in focus and the back was not. And the bird was a songbird, not a turkey.

[Emmanuele]

...The worst ever was a small 10x pair I had, where the front of the bird was in focus and the back was not. And the bird was a songbird, not a turkey.
Are you taliking about Zeiss ? The conquest I own has not such a reduced deep of view. Focus is about 4 meters ahead and back the target. However, I'll promise to give you a more accurate description, but I'm sure it's a matter of meters and not of centimeters :)

[Tero]

No, it was not a major brand. A newcomer. But I see the same problem to a lesser degree with many 10x30s and all 10x25 roofs.

[Emmanuele]

Tero, I tried to target a stone 25 meters far from me. Focus needs to be slightly adjusted if you want to look 5 meters above or beyond your target. That's the test I did yesterday... It seems to me a good performance isn't it ? ;)

[Tero]

I could work with that...binoculars: it all boils down to good enough for who it's for. ;)