Best Bins For Me

[ARauckhorst]

I have just recently began to dabble in the world of birding. After next week, the binoculars I've been using courtesy of the Ohio Northern University Biology department will be taken away from me. I'm giving serious thought to buying my own mid-range pair of binoculars. I realize a trend around here is to try the binoculars before I make a purchase - I intend to do this. I'm just looking at a jump off point.

I'm looking for a pair that:

Roof-prism
Nitrogen Purged
Waterproof
Very good optics
Less than $450

I've read a lot of good things, and a few bad things about the 8x42 Nikon Monarchs. Also I've read some good things about the Pentax 8x43 DCF SP.

I asking for some opinions on these bins and perhaps a few suggestions as to some other bins.

Thanks
-adam

[delia todd]

Hi Adam I see this is your first post, so may I welcome you on behalf of the Staff and Moderators at Bird Forum

I'm sure there'll be someone along soon to advise you

D

[June Atkinson]

I have just recently began to dabble in the world of birding. After next week, the binoculars I've been using courtesy of the Ohio Northern University Biology department will be taken away from me. I'm giving serious thought to buying my own mid-range pair of binoculars. I realize a trend around here is to try the binoculars before I make a purchase - I intend to do this. I'm just looking at a jump off point.

I'm looking for a pair that:

Roof-prism
Nitrogen Purged
Waterproof
Very good optics
Less than $450

I've read a lot of good things, and a few bad things about the 8x42 Nikon Monarchs. Also I've read some good things about the Pentax 8x43 DCF SP.

I asking for some opinions on these bins and perhaps a few suggestions as to some other bins.

Thanks
-adam

:hi:
And welcome from me too, Adam!!
We have three pairs of binoculars in our family; I gave a Dollond & Aitcheson 10x9 to my husband as a wedding gift, 43 years ago, and they are still going strong!
I have a pair of Opticron and a pair of Leica; the latter were expensive, but I can use them wearing my specs, which is really useful when you want to catch sight of something quickly.
As you say, trying them out is the way to go - take every opportunity to beg/borrow/commandeer them so that you can get the "feel" of the pair in your hands, and the weight too.
At present the German supermarket is offering Bresser binocs for £49 - what a snip for what are considered to be quality gear. Do you have Lidl in the States?

Happy hunting and here's to a lifetime of pleasure using whatever you decide to buy!:clap:

[elkcub]

<sbuo>
I'm looking for a pair that:

Roof-prism
Nitrogen Purged
Waterproof
Very good optics
Less than $450

Thanks
-adam

Hi Adam,

Welcome aboard. You might wish to consider Swift's roof prism Audubon for about $350. It meets all your requirements, and has received excellent reviews.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=1156

Blue skies,
Ed

[Tero]

Nikon and Pentax OK. I have a fancier pair, but still use the Nikons. Nicer eye cups. Good luck. ;)

[ThoLa]

Roof-prism
Nitrogen Purged
Waterproof
Very good optics
Less than $450

I asking for some opinions on these bins and perhaps a few suggestions as to some other bins.

Thanks
-adam


http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3900

Best offer for the best quality in this price range by far.
Tom

[ceasar]

Compare them with the Nikon Monarch PC 8 x 36 at about $200.00 less or Eagle's house brand the Ranger SRT 8 x 32, also $200.00 less and with a wider field of view than the Zeiss or the Monarch. Ask about Eagle's 30 day no fault return policy too. The Swift Roof Prism that Ed recommends is a very nice binocular for the money. You might like their 8.5 x 44 format better than the 8 x 30/32/36.
Good luck,
Bob

[Perry Grin]

I have just recently began to dabble in the world of birding. After next week, the binoculars I've been using courtesy of the Ohio Northern University Biology department will be taken away from me. I'm giving serious thought to buying my own mid-range pair of binoculars. I realize a trend around here is to try the binoculars before I make a purchase - I intend to do this. I'm just looking at a jump off point.

I'm looking for a pair that:

Roof-prism
Nitrogen Purged
Waterproof
Very good optics
Less than $450

I've read a lot of good things, and a few bad things about the 8x42 Nikon Monarchs. Also I've read some good things about the Pentax 8x43 DCF SP.

I asking for some opinions on these bins and perhaps a few suggestions as to some other bins.

Thanks
-adam



Give the Bushnell Natureview a try. You'll even get plenty of change out of your budget.

[ARauckhorst]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

The more I've been thinking the more I'm beginning to realize that I'm not sure what I need or want.

So lets change this topic a little:

What do the best of best roof prism bins have?
Knowing that, what would a very good mid-priced pair of bins have?

I'm very open to opinions. Thank-you everyone that has replied thus far.

-adam

[Pinewood]

Thanks for the warm welcome!
...What do the best of best roof prism bins have?
Knowing that, what would a very good mid-priced pair of bins have?

I'm very open to opinions. Thank-you everyone that has replied thus far.

-adam

Hello Adam:

The best roof prism binoculars have:

Mechanical reliability and "sweetness," meaning they function smoothly;
Wider fields of view, than less expensive models;
Better edge sharpness or less pronounced degradation of resolution from the center outwards; this is in direct conflict with having wider fields of view;
Higher contrast, mostly a product of costly coatings, and superb resolution providing superior sharpness;
Lack of chromatic aberration;
Suppression of internal reflections;
Elimination of ghost images;
Suppression of "flare" from strong light sources, outside the field of view;
Ruggedness of surface and of optics;
Well designed ergonomics for ease of use;
Adjustable eye cups;
Internal focussing;
Right diopter settings, which are internally locked as in Leica and in Zeiss, which may be over engineering, as a standard diopter setting is probably sufficiently waterproof and more rugged;
A "feeling" of high quality;
Reliable service for most problems.

As all binoculars are design compromises, some models may emphasise some features over others. Some inexpensive binoculars may do very well in many optical properties but fall short in durability, sweetness and some optical properties. There are some design decisions which drive a few people to irritation and distraction like purposeful pincushion distortion to reduce the rolling ball effect in panning.

Finally, the eye/brain/binocular interface is subject to a lot individual effects and challenges, like wearing eyeglasses, making binocular choice very personal. I cannot stand one highly praised Porro binocular. In fact, I found it unusable, but I am in the minority.

You were interested in a price point of $450 for a roof glass, which is a few hundred dollars less than the point of diminishing return. Somewhere above $700, the purchaser gets smaller, but real improvements, for larger increases in price.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :brains:

[Marko_]

Here's my suggestion:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3218

This has it all.

Very good optics and handling. Better field of view and less flare than Zeiss Conquest.

Marko

[Tero]

Looks good, Marko. I was not that committed to 8x when I was looking, got the Eagle Optics 8x32.

[Pinewood]

Here's my suggestion:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3218

This has it all.

Very good optics and handling. Better field of view and less flare than Zeiss Conquest.

Marko
Marko and Adam,

I cannot keep track of all the Minox models, but I did try an 8x32, in a shop, last year, when I thought that it was a good binocular, not just good at the price. However, Adam has to be happy with the glass, not me.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62122 has some demos, but I do not know what the return policy may be, while Eagle has a very good return policy.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[Marko_]

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62122 has some demos, but I do not know what the return policy may be, while Eagle has a very good return policy.



Hi Arthur,

Those demo prices look tempting. I considered a demo Minox BD 8x32 BR myself, but didn't know of Cameraland then.

I almost ordered a demo model directly from Minox AG (Germany) but, because I was in a hurry, and Minox were a bit slow in answering my inquiries, I ended up getting a new BD 8x32 BR from Eagle Optics.

A long way from EO to Finland, but I got the binocular all in good order and no trouble whatsoever.

I can say I am very pleased with this purchase (I think I already mentioned this in another thread).

Everyone needs to make their own decisions, but I would recommend at least considering the BD BR. The Minox BL apparently is not as good, although I haven't tried one. The Minox HG's I have tried, and found them excellent. I would recommend those to anyone, as I would the BD BR.

Regards,
Marko

[Pinewood]

Dear Marko,

It would appear from the pictures, that one of the cost savings, of this middle priced binocular, is lack of an integral diopter setting, like those on Leica and on Zeiss binoculars. I guess that it is also made either in Japan or in China, with lower labour costs than the best Leica and Zeiss glasses. The eye relief is not overly generous but facial features, type of correction and style of specs may mitigate that situation. The eye relief would be sufficient for me.

I live less than four kilometres from Cameraland and I have had good experiences dealing with them.

With warm regards,
Arthur

[Marko_]

Dear Marko,

It would appear from the pictures, that one of the cost savings, of this middle priced binocular, is lack of an integral diopter setting, like those on Leica and on Zeiss binoculars. I guess that it is also made either in Japan or in China, with lower labour costs than the best Leica and Zeiss glasses. The eye relief is not overly generous but facial features, type of correction and style of specs may mitigate that situation. The eye relief would be sufficient for me.

I live less than four kilometres from Cameraland and I have had good experiences dealing with them.

With warm regards,
Arthur

Hello Arthur,

Yes, your observations about the Minox BD BR seem correct.

I find no problem myself with the diopter setting. Actually, I haven't even touched it! Eagle optics were nice enough to adjust it a little bit to the plus side, which is the correct setting for me :cool: (Maybe I should test the adjustment, though, just to make sure ...)

As to the country where the binocular is made, I have somewhere read that Minox are assembled in Japan, but I can not confirm this. Some models could me made in China. And I don't really care, because I find this binocular just perfect for me, regardless of where it's made.

Eye relief is adequate for me. I don't need to wear glasses with binoculars.

Best Regards,
Marko

[falcondude]

Better edge sharpness or less pronounced degradation of resolution from the center outwards; this is in direct conflict with having wider fields of view;


Hi, Pinewood, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that edge sharpness conflicts with wider field of view. For a pair of 10x42 and 8x42 roof prism binoculars of the same brand/line, 8x42 tends to have better edge sharpness and of course wider field of view. The lower mag power leads to better depth of focus, hence better edge sharpness.

To achieve better edge sharpness, the manufacturer just have to overcome the shallow depth of focus: (1) reduce aperture size (that's why 8x32 is better than 8x42 for sharpness); (2) add some fancy internal glass for edge correction. I don't know how that was done though..

[MacGee]

The best roof prism binoculars have:
...
Lack of chromatic aberration
...
Arthur, unless you're interpreting 'the best roof prism binoculars' to mean just the Zeiss FL line, I have to disagree with you. I've seen gross secondary colour in top-line Leica and Nikon bins, though whether it was chromatic or one of the other 5 aberrations, I'm not qualified to say. Of course, if your eyes, unlike mine, can compensate for CA, it won't matter to you, but it does exist in the top roof prisms.

Michael.

[Pinewood]

Arthur, unless you're interpreting 'the best roof prism binoculars' to mean just the Zeiss FL line, I have to disagree with you. I've seen gross secondary colour in top-line Leica and Nikon bins, though whether it was chromatic or one of the other 5 aberrations, I'm not qualified to say. Of course, if your eyes, unlike mine, can compensate for CA, it won't matter to you, but it does exist in the top roof prisms.

Michael.

Michael,

You are quite correct but I would write that the older Dialyt may have had reduced CA. In my case, I never notice CA, but I am using two FL's and a Dialyt, almost exclusively. So I was writing from my personal, but clearly not typical experience.

Later: The Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 probably has a larger f number and does not have internal focussing. Both features may tend to reduce CA, while my FL binoculars use special glass.


Thanks,
Arthur

[jaymoynihan]

Roof-prism
Nitrogen Purged
Waterproof
Very good optics
Less than $450


The very good optics, roof prism and price limit parts, make this a difficult choice.

I would suggest you check out the Swift Audubon HHS 8.5x44 roofs.

They are ALMOST as sharp as the porro version, which as far as sheer optical quality best anything under $1000, other than the Nikon SE series of porros.

I like them alot, not as much as my Zeiss classics pairs, but hey...

On the roof version, eye relief is very generous, good hand balance, good color correction, relatively bright view for a lower priced roof, one-hand use is ok. Only down side is FOV @ 6.3 degrees.

[vkalia]

Well, I went through this research last month and settled on a pair of Pentax DCF SP 10x43s. I've been quite happy with them - see my post on how they fared against Leica Trinovids. At 1/4th the price, they acquitted themselves quite well.

The Minox would be another option, as well. Based on the sum of what I've read, these binos appear to be a step above the Monarchs and Eagle Optics...

Vandit

[Swissboy]

.... I ended up getting a new BD 8x32 BR from Eagle Optics.

A long way from EO to Finland, but I got the binocular all in good order and no trouble whatsoever.



Hi, I thought EO did not ship abroad!? Have they changed their policy or did you get them in North America (as I have done so far)?

[Marko_]

Hi, I thought EO did not ship abroad!? Have they changed their policy or did you get them in North America (as I have done so far)?

Hi,

No, EO don't ship abroad.
I used a company called International Checkout to buy from EO and ship them over here to me. That company buys from any on-line store in USA and ships anywhere.

Regards,
Marko

[ceasar]

Robert,
That might be a solution for getting 8 x 30 Porro's for your students which you brought up in another very recent thread. I'm talking about the Leupold 8 x 30 Yosemite's of course.
cordially,
Bob