Patch Info for 'Green' Woodpeckers?

[Charles Harper]

I would be interested in hearing patch reports on the status of your local species of the Green Woodpecker group (viridis, viridanus, vittatus, xanthopygeus, canus, vaillantii, awokera, rabieri, erythropygius) in residential (urban/suburban) habitat. I do not believe it is a regular resident of my patch; awokera in this part of Japan is normally a bird of the sparsely-inhabited hills and mountains. However, I do have irregular sight records of single birds in 2/00, 5/00, 2/01 and 9/03. No pattern seems to be emerging. Do you see them seasonally? Regularly or irregularly? Do they nest in your residential areas? What seems to affect their presence in or absence from your patch, in your opinion?

[Ruby]

Hi Charles,

I live in South London/Surrey area in the UK and they are quite common around here.

They are occasionally seen in my suburban garden, but more often we get greater spotteds which like to sit on the very top of some conifers that we have.

Green woodpeckers are often seen (and heard!) in the local countryside and woods. A favourite haunt seems to be golf courses - they seem to like the mixture of open space and manicured trees.

But there again, maybe they're just easier to spot!!

Can't recall ever seeing more than one at a time.


Rgds... Ruby

[Ruby]

Oooo-er - something odd going on here. Hadn't meant to post *3

Sorry...

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Charles,

I've noticed a big difference between northern and southern England - in the north, Green Woodpeckers (viridis) are scarce, and very timid, only found in sparsely populated rural areas, whereas in southern England they're far commoner, and often found in tree-rich suburban areas.

In Bulgaria, Green Woodies are very common, and again often found in rural villages and small towns. Grey-headed Woodpeckers (canus) are scarce, I only saw one (the only one I've ever seen anywhere - fortunately, very good views!), which was in dense mixed pine/spruce/fir forest at about 1500m altitude, which wasn't the habitat my Bulgarian friend was expecting to find them in - he was saying he most often sees them in lowland riverside poplar plantations or areas with only a few scattered trees. His general feeling is that Grey-headeds try to get a look-in in any situation with trees, but without Green Woodies; and that competition from the larger & stronger Greens is the main reason for their scarcity.

Michael

[Dave G]

Hi Charles,
Live in North Kent 3 minutes from Thames Estuary and 5 minutes (by car) from Medway Estuary.
Can guarantee several birds local to me, have seen on occasions numbers (Green woodpeckers) in double figures.
Greater Spotted very occasional, with sightings every couple of trips, no Lesser Spotted here that I have yet found.
One of the commoner birds in my locality, but only in the right place, they seem very habitat dependant and are breading.
The birds are on the edge of a residential area and come onto the recreation fields early in the morning.
Biggest disturbance seems to be dog's, they seem almost invisible after dog walkers have gone through the area.

[HokkaidoStu]

Hi Charles...........

As you know we don't get Japanese Green up here but Grey Headed ( canus ) is around. There are several pairs in the forest on Hakodate-yama ( Mt Hakodate ) but I've never seen them in urban areas. I don't go on the mountain in winter ( I don't have snowshoes! ) but I'm guessing they stay there all winter. Ditto Japanese Pygmy Woodpecker. Great Spotted Woodpeckers on the other hand are a common urban bird except in the breeding season ( there was one tapping away on the telegraph post outside my balcony the other day ).

I've seen plenty of ( European? ) Green Woodpeckers in the UK but never in an truly urban setting. One of my old birding buddies who grew up in the same area saw one in his garden a few times ( his family was rich and had a huge garden with lots of trees ). When I lived in Munich I had to work out at Dachau some afternoons and I used to see occasional European Green while I was waiting for the train back into the city. It was in the suburbs.....sorry not very specific!!!

[pduxon]

My local patch is Hatfield Forest and Green Woodpeckers are very abundant.

I've seen quite a few sitting by the side of the road in the town I live in - Harlow Essex

[StevieEvans]

One of my favourite birds

I shall type something on this later

S

[Andrew]

I watched a family of two young Green Woodpeckers being raised by their parents at the local cemetery this year. They seem to have moved off to pastures new and return very sporadically.

Another related topic....has anyone noticed a lack of ANTS? We always get them all over our garden. I kept squishing them in the evenings on the patio and red ant nests always appeared at the edge of the garden away from the house. The Black ants always came into the house, every year there would be a mass esacpe of flyiong ants from somewhere in the garden too. This year I have not seen a single Red Ant nest and no Black Ants have shown up anywhere at all. Anyone else noticed this in their part of Britain.

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Andrew,

Plenty of urban ants up here - in recent years they have increased a lot, digging their nests in the laying sand under street paving stones, which keeps them dry and out of the rain. Of course, Green Woodies can't get at these.

Otherwise, Northumberland doesn't have very many ants, mainly because most of the soils are heavy damp clays, which are not good for ants to nest in. Ants prefer drier, sandy soils. This explains why Green Woodies are so scarce here (but not why they are more timid than down south). The patches of land with sandier soils up here do have more ants, and are the best places to find Green Woodies.

Michael

[alan_rymer]

Was watching two in a dry dusty field feeding ( Usually horses in the field but now too dry ). Whilst watching these two, two others were calling from different directions.
Nr Twyford, Berkshire.
I usually see or hear at least one everynight here whilst walking the dog.

[Nina P]

Charles, I live in a rural area in southern England and over the back gardens and all down the road there are so many green woodpeckers that when the rain is about to come in, the yaffling of these makes everything seem, silent, there are numerous Greater Spotteds here too as one pair nesting in the oak tree opposite my home raised three youngsters this year, and less than 2 miles from me there were two pairs of lesser spotteds this year. This area is mostly farm land with houses dotted along one side of the road, and huge trees with protection from the axe wielding tree haters. Nina.

[Charles Harper]

This has been extremely productive. It seems that your viridis is much more a ground feeder (i.e. preferring more open mixed habitat, and therefore more visible in and more adapted to human-modified areas. Hence most of you seem to have them around, rather commonly, like the North American flickers. Michael's comment about the difference in behaviour between northern and southern English birds remains unsolved.

I have never seen awokera even low in a tree, much less on the ground; they are always high and usually seen as they dash from one treetop to another. While I suppose there are many arboreal ants, the book says they are primarily frugiverous, which would immediately explain why they remain away from man in the more closed forest.

Judging from the comments on birds in Bulgaria and Hokkaido, canus may be behaviourly somewhat intermediate. I wonder if it is competition or niche requirements that keep Grey-headed out of Green habitat in Europe? Here in Japan, of course our two species are separated by geological events and a broad strait.

My own birds I still cannot explain except as young or non-breeding wanderers who hang around for a few days and then are heard from no more; my original idea in submitting the thread was that I thought they may be secretive and quiet but present-- I just wasn't seeing them.

Any of our Mediterranean, Mideast or south Asian members have any comments?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Charles,

I'd agree about our Green Woodpecker being like a Northern Flicker - they strike me as having very similar behaviour, and both have ants (dug from nests in the ground) as their primary food resource.

Some similarity in the ant diet to Black & Pileated Woodies, but these are more specialists on the tree-dwelling Camponotus ants (carpenter & hercules ants).

Greens are larger than Grey-headed, so I'd suspect it is primarily competition that forces Grey-headeds into habitats that are sub-optimal for Green.

Greens are limited north-eastward in Europe by their susceptibility to cold winters, which Grey-headeds are not; this suggests to me that the ground-feeding habits of Green are a liability in this respect. When ants nests in the ground are frozen rock-solid, Grey-headeds can feed in tres, Greens can't, or at least don't so much.

Michael

[IanF]

Thanks for postnig this query Charles I nearly asked a similar question on Steviewols thread about Brassside Ponds as he mention Green Woodpeckers as being resident there.

I have seen them in a few locations in my area, but only very in frequently despite looking out for them in particular. I concur with Michael they are prtty scarce around here.

[Karl J]

To me (in my area of eastern england ) they seem pretty thin on the ground & not as common as Greater Spotted , the few times I've seen them has been in rural areas either on or very near the ground.


Andrew - yes definitely - I've not seen one of those mass flying breakouts this year despite the heatwave which I'd have thought would have the opposite effect.

[Billy Boy]

Green Woodpeckers are quite common around here in Derbyshire. There's not many a day goes by without hearing ones cackling. We had one in the back garden earlier in the year (i only wish he/she had found the ants nest) speaking of which...

Andrew, I wish I could say the same regarding "lack of ants" we have numerous red ants nests in the front garden, and in the height of the Summer it was unbearable. We must of spent a fortune on ant powder. Where's that Green Woodpecker gone now?

Billy Boy

[Andrew]

Carlos, that is what I thought too. Pergaps heatwaves are not good for ants?

[StevieEvans]

Hello

Charles, Green wpkr's are very vocal birds, especially in April, with many more heard than are seen.
I would use this factor in determing if my patch had resident birds or not.
Are your equivalents noisy birds at breeding time?

The prefered habitat requirement would appear to be mature semi-natural woodlands with surrounding areas of grazed land, (preferably rough terrain- less pesticides)

I have seen this species in open mature gardens & in & around towns & villages, but It appears not to be as regular here as in other habitats.

At the edges of some of our now suburban areas, we have reclaimed coal spoil heaps (pit heaps)
In many cases these have been recontoured & covered with Scots pine trees as a cheap soloution to an unsightly blot on the landscape.
The heaps are ideal for ants & i cannot think of a reclaimed heap with adjacent suitable nest trees, which ive visited, that does not support Greens.

Ants are numerous in coniferous plantations, so afforestation schemes will have provided them with additional habitat. In our area we have the Great North Forest, it will be interesting to see how this develops as it surrounds some of our less pleasant industrial areas.

On the whole, i would say Green Woodpecker is regular in Co.Durham, where there is, at present suitable habitat.
Milder winters will perhaps encourage it to expand its population into maturing woodlands.


Gwpkr prefer to feed on the ground? I see as many feeding in trees as on the ground.
Im not convinced on this one.

Ive seen Gwpkr systematically ousting Great spotted wkpr from its excavations, as they spiralled up a tall tree.

During a period of hard winter weather 1992, with snow & ice cover, i saw a Gwpkr feeding greedily on corn which i had put out at the edge of a wood.

We had a recent sighting of a lucky yaffle which was screaming & screaching after being caught & pinned to the ground by a Sparrowhawk, both flew off apparently unharmed.


MF. Much of our County has heavy clay soils, but GWpkr appears not to be affected by this. I estimate approx 10 pairs along the Wear valley between Durham & Ch-leStreet. (approx 12Km)

IanF. If you want photographs, I would try the huge Poplar tree at Beechburn Gravel Pits, just down river from Low Barns. Or the compact river Browney section at Bearpark Hall, Bearpark, Durham City- several good trees here including a large dead Elm.

[Charles Harper]

Yes, Steve, quite vocal in April and May, when I first go up into the hills to look for them. But my odd records in town here (February, May, September of various years) also come from vocalizations, which is what has attracted my notice. I started this thread on the impetus provided by its latest appearance, in a big old Black Pine (don't hold me to that i.d., Michael) across the street, where it woke me up two mornings running with its regular, repeated piercing notes... and it has since disappeared.

I'm afraid something is lost in that I can't get a feeling for habitat in some of the above comments-- Billy, Ian, et.al.-- because I am ignorant of your areas of the UK; don't know how forested you are-- are you all talking about residential segments of your patches?

[Billy Boy]

Charles- The green Woodpeckers around here seem to be mainly on open farmland. On the many occasions I do go on walks up into the woods I never hear let alone see one. There's quite a few woodland walks around here but there's never a Green Woodpecker in sight. I actually live on open farmland and hear and see them quite often where I live.

Billy Boy

[Elizabeth Bigg]

Hello Charles - we get them in our small garden occasionally. There are very mature trees in two neighbouring gardens and lots of trees beyond them. I've just checked back in the records I keep for the BTO, and I've only seen one here once in the last 13 weeks. There have been 9 weeks in the last year when one has visited the garden, but my records don't show repeat visits in any one week. When one comes, it spends ages digging quite deeply into the lawn - for ants, I presume. Once I saw one pecking in the cracks of the paved path - the slabs aren't cemented in so it could search for ants there too.

We have not seen many ants this summer - sometimes they can be rather a nuisance, so perhaps that is why Woody hasn't been around this summer?

[Karl J]

Originally posted by Charles Harper
are you all talking about residential segments of your patches?

Sort of yes and no Charles. One place I've had a few sighting is near ( about half a mile from) a large thick woodland, actually at the entrance to a prison. Theres a small village about half mile away and small market town about 2 miles away.

Another area is Winterton dunes; sand dunes next to the sea.

And another one, is on the edge of a small village near mixed woodland.

[john gardiner]

Green Woodpecker is very common on Waldridge Fell near Chester le Strret seen feeding on the ground particulary burnt out Gorse bushes and on the telegraph poles.

[StevieEvans]

Hello John Gardiner

I used to get on the fell almost daily about 10 year ago.
Only couple of visits a year now.
Like you say, GrWpkr very regular, Used to get a pair on the East side (Fell Edge Fm) & another pair on the West/Congburn side (Waldrige Tavern)

(This is another place with large areas of colliery waste, but in this case colonised by natural succession, gorse, birch etc.
I think the woodpeckers were there first though ? )

Birds that the Fell bring to my mind include:-
Cuckoo, Woodcok, Stonechat, Long eared owl, Jack Snipe & one Marsh Harrier.

Regards Steve Evans

[Henry H]

I don't think we get many Greens here in Lancashire. I've only ever had one possible sighting (at RSPB Sandy). It was flying away from me very low, undulating flight, heading from a sandy open area to the nearby woods. Ironically my mother-in-law who lives on the outskirts of Bedford sometimes gets one in her back garden (which backs onto a field the size of a football pitch, surrounded by woods). Unfortunately, the elusive so-and-so never visits when I'm there!

[CJW]

We don't get any woodpeckers Charles - apart from the very occasional Great Spotted.

[guffers]

Michael's point about the dry, sandy habitat preference seems a very good one but one that I'd admit I'd never thought of before. On my local patches Green Woodpeckers are very regularly seen and heard and these areas are very dry and sandy. In fact my area is a mosaic of disused, reclaimed and still active sand and gravel quarries. There are some smallish woods nearby where the woodies nest and where I sometimes hear them calling but where I don't think they feed very often.
I reckon green woodies will be common on lowland, southern heaths. If anyone here lives near a sand quarry then check it out as Green Woodies should be possible.

[birdman]

Must've missed this first time round.

Don't see our British Greens too often on my outback, but hear them very regularly. Pretty sure they must breed.

I'll try to keep a record from now on, Charles

[StevieEvans]

This afternoon heard 2 noisy Green Woodpeckers calling from about 50m away, the birds appeared to be approx 20m apart.

Looking round the corner of a wall i saw the most vocal of the 2 perched on the side of a wooden telegraph pole at about 20' in height.
This bird wasn't just 'yaffling' but sounded like it was being murdered !
The sounds were amazing, a constant stream of noise; the bird sounded 'terrified'
Its mate (i asumed it was a m/f pair) 'yaffled' back normally but often.

The reason for all this commotion became apparent when i saw what was sat higher up on top of the pole...a substancial female Sparrowhawk!!

The noisy woodpkr didnt try to move away, but its head moved from side to side as it 'shouted' up at the predator above.

After 2-3mins the hawk took off & headed low over a field full of Wood pigeons, the woodpecker stopped calling as soon as the hawk flew, & remained motionless for about 30 seconds before flying off to join its mate.
No other calls were heard in area in the next hour.

I think the Green Woodpecker was trying to use its loud voice to scare off the threatening raptor.

Any thoughts...?

Stevie

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Stevie,

Probably more of a threat display . . . . sort of "Watch it mate, don't mess with me, or you'll get stabbed in the belly"

It'd be at higher risk if it flew, that would give the hawk a chance to grab it from behind out of easy stabbing reach.

Michael

[Denis J]

My local patch has its share of greens I usually hear them more often than I see them though check out "Hawthorn Dene" in a recent issue of Birdwatching I almost always at least hear them there and when I see them its usually on some old sandstone spoil heaps near the old quarry so the well drained soil theory sounds right

[Ashley beolens]

I have them quite regularly on my patch (just at the edge of a growing town (milton Keynes) I assume it is just one pair but they get around.

[Adey Baker]

My local GWs nest in woodland on clayey soil and as well as feeding around that area they're very often seen, on the ground, in well-grazed horse-paddocks on sandier soil about 1/2 mile away.

[david kelly]

Being further north than any of the UK repliers Green Woodpeckers have a patchy distribution here in Lothian. The heavy clay soils of the coastal plain are avoided, but they are found in the plantations of the East Lothian coastal dune systems (replacing the Pallas's Sandgrouse ;) ). They are also found in the Holyrood Park in the centre of Edinburgh. In the City there are a number of locations, usually areas of open ground adjacent to semi natural woodland such as golf courses or open hill. They are more widely distributed in Mid and West Lothian, although still patchy.

In this part of the world, other than the East Lothian coast and in town you seem to get Green Woodpeckers in the same places as you get Jays.

David

[StevieEvans]

Hi
MF That sounds like a pretty good translation of the noise!

This summer we had a similar commotion, but on that occassion it was coming from ground level.
Although it was at a different site(Lanchester) the same 2 species were involved & were 'scuffling' on the ground.
The Sparrowhawk was also very vocal that time, & i should imagine that the large GreenWpkr would have been defending itself with its 'primary-weapon' (beak) hence the noise from the raptor (pain).....?
I would have thought that most birds of prey would try to dispatch their prey as quietly as possible, so as to avoid alerting crows/fox etc....?

DennisJ
Hello, Hawthorn is a great place, ive never seen such densities of GSW, Nuthatch & Marsh tits in the NEast, as you say, the area thats best to see/hear yaffles is in the Quarry/Meadow/Hive area.
There are some tremendous trees in the dene with 'tons' of deadwood, Some huge Elms seem to be trying to 'cling on' in the sheltered dene bottom.
Send me a PM we you track down LSW...!
(had 87species over 13th/14th Oct this year-will get ScopsOwl there one day)
Regards Stevie Evans

[jayhunter]

I only see GW flying low down the valleys on the outskirts of the village, here in Cheshire. My daughter who works at Starcross near Exeter has one that feeds on the lawn from ant hills. We have had no red ants this year few black ants and I didn't notice the usually annual swarm of flying ants. LSW has been seen in the woodland to the East of Kerridge ridge, but don't believe the GW is in the same woodland.