Minidisc replacement

[kimandsue]

Hi. I currently use a minidisc for recording both birds and bats but it is starting to 'play up' so I am looking to replace it. Minidiscs seem to be going out of vogue. Has anyone experience with the Edirol R-9 or Edirol R-1?
Many thanks for your help Kim

[ermine]

The Edirol R09 is a nice and handy device and will work well recording the line output of your bat detector. For direct bird recording it is a little bit noisy on the mic input compared to a HiMD recorder.

Whether that is okay enough for you depends on the mic you are using, the noise level of the environment you are working in and your expectations. If you can borrow one to test with your gear or get one on sale or return you can check.

R09s work well with the Telinga dish mics and Pro5 handle because that is already amplified. If your mic recordings are too hissy with an R09 you can use a FEL preamp, but then costs are then really mounting up compared to a used HiMD from ebay of even a new Sony RH01 MD.

For most field recording apps there's no contest between MD and even cheap Cf recorders. Unfortunately, recording low sound levels like birds using low cost mikes is a case where HiMD scores due to the quality of the mic preamps compared with the cheaper CF recorders.

You can read more at

http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/newcomersguide/recorder.html

and listen to this difference at

http://www.uwm.edu/~type/Mic%20Preamps/MicroTrack_NH900_722Compare2.mov

The M-Audio microtrack he used is a CF recorder of probably a similar performance to the R09

[kimandsue]

Thanks Ermine
I only have a small Sennheiser MKE300 (although it works OK) I think I might stick with a new MD. Thanks for your help and the useful links
Kim

[ermine]

The MKE300 works a treat with MD - you can't really beat that for the price. Lots of people seem to feel MD is on the way out so ebay is a good place to look to keep costs down.

I've just come across this
http://www.avisoft.com/test/noisefloors.pdf
test which indicates that the R09 has a 12dB higher noise floor noiser than a Sony HiMD. Avisoft didn't test a MD but the figures are available from http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/himd/index.html

That is a lot noisier. I've attached a clip of a chaffinch calling with shelduck in flight recorded using a HiMD and a MKE300 with the recording level flat out. It isn't the quietest recording but it's okay. I've added a repeat of the same clip, but with 10dB noise added - there is a significant difference. This was recorded in an ordinary English wood so you don't need ultra-quiet locations to benefit from quieter mic amplifiers.

The Edirol R09 is 25dB less sensitive than a HiMD, which means that this recording would hardly register on the metering, and you'd probably struggle to monitor it in the field.

[kimandsue]

Thanks
That is a lot of difference! I have read some good reviews regarding the new Sony on the web, and on the site you gave me the link for.
Thanks for your help and time in making the sound clip.
Regards Kim

[Andy Bright]

Thanks
That is a lot of difference! I have read some good reviews regarding the new Sony on the web, and on the site you gave me the link for.
Thanks for your help and time in making the sound clip.
Regards Kim

I have recently purchased the Sony's RH1 recorder, certainly a revelation compared to the abilites of my old md recorder. It may be the last one made, but it's top notch... sort of MD equivilant to the legendary Walkman Pro WM-D6C cassette job.

cheers,
Andy

[griffin]

The MZRH1 is very good and if your budget is £200 ish then it is a no brainer. However, if you can push the boat out a bit more the new Fostex FR2LE is really good, offering CF recording and seamless easy uploading of all audio files. It also has a two sec pre-record buffer so you will not miss anything. Runs for 8 hours on the 7.2 volt battery that is an extra ( 4 hours on 4 x AA).

The worst thing about MD is the sonic stage interface - if you can get your head around that then it the way to go !

Cheers,

Linz

[Andy Bright]

The worst thing about MD is the sonic stage interface - if you can get your head around that then it the way to go !

Cheers,

Linz

The latest sonic stage is far better than previous versions... it's now risen to the heights of 'poor' in my opinion ;)

[Didier Godreau]

I have also bought one piece of the Sony RH1 :


what is your advice for a good microphone?
and where to buy it for a good price???


thank you in advance
Didier
Paris
:t:




The latest sonic stage is far better than previous versions... it's now risen to the heights of 'poor' in my opinion ;)

I have recently purchased the Sony's RH1 recorder, certainly a revelation compared to the abilites of my old md recorder. It may be the last one made, but it's top notch... sort of MD equivilant to the legendary Walkman Pro WM-D6C cassette job.

cheers,
Andy

[Andy Bright]

Hi Didier,
You have quoted my posts, but I'm really not the person to ask about nature sound recording microphones, as I don't use an md player for that purpose.
Hopefully someone else will answer you... or maybe a better idea, start a thread specifically for your question.

regards,
Andy


I have also bought one piece of the Sony RH1 :


what is your advice for a good microphone?
and where to buy it for a good price???


thank you in advance
Didier
Paris
:t:

[griffin]

The latest sonic stage is far better than previous versions... it's now risen to the heights of 'poor' in my opinion ;)

A nature recordist in Switzerland that sends the odd xbill call to me recently reported on a sound recordists forum that he lost 14 files when attempting to transfer from MD to computer, blaming windows updates that may have unstabilized the software. I can't afford gaffs like that, especially with release calls of trapped and ringed crossbills. I only report this so anyone can weigh up the pros and cons. Ermine on this forum is a dab hand virtuoso with Sonic Stage so not everyone hates it, and am sure it can be worked around !;)

However, the guy that builds Telinga mics uploads his audio from MD to computer in "real time" so as not to lose anything ! His is a HiMd model so it could do it digitally............but he chooses not to through lack of confidence in Sonic Stages reliability.

I have the new MZRH1 and really like it, but Sonic Stage still gives me the absolute crappers ! :h?:


Lindsay

[griffin]

I have also bought one piece of the Sony RH1 :


what is your advice for a good microphone?
and where to buy it for a good price???


Well Didier you have got a good recorder there (if not software interface) !

I would recommend the Sennheiser MKE300 Camcorder mic, which is around £130. I would check Thomann in Germany as it will be much cheaper from there.

The Audi Technica ATR55 is also a decent option though the self noise will be more than the sennheiser.

Both have a 3.5mm socket and are mono - though the ATR is avialbale with stereo jack. I use a mono to stereo convertor just cos I don't like monitoring only hearing one channel of the stereo spectrum ( eg. sound only in one headphone ear).

This said I use a Telinga parabola and a Sennheiser ME67 for bird calls, though I started off with a Czech knockoff of the ATR !

Lindsay

[Big Phil]

Sonic Stage still gives me the absolute crappers

I'm finding it ok to use so far, but some of it's behaviors are a bit odd. It also only runs on my PC as admin, which is very annoying and smacks of amateurish programming.

[Andy Bright]

Not particularly relevant here, but the playback quality of the RH1 is amazing... it's the first portable player I've ever owned that I'll regularly plug into a Stax energiser/earspeaker combo and enjoy.

[g8ina]

Ohhh, Stax ! Nice :)

I'll keep on plugging away for the iRiver WAV/MP3 player/recorders. In fact, with the better weather and a bit of strength returning to my left arm, I may well get the parabolic mics & iRiver H120 out and try and catch a few new calls.