gordon ramsey eating rooks

[seggs]

caught some of this programme tonight the f word.
he was seen shooting what looked like young rooks from the tree tops then dressing ,cooking and eating them with his son!!!! and saying rooks should be brought to the dinner table...med evil! next it will be swan!!! nice to teach your kids nature ...( but he could not kill deer last week)

[scampo]

After last year's shooting of a woodcock by Hugh F-W which was stuffed inside a dish consisting of half a dozen other game birds of increasing size, each stuffed inside the other, then I thought TV couldn't get much worse - but this has equalled it for crassness.

[michaelmacey]

Does he bore everyone else like he bores me? He's almost as bad as Laurel and Hardy, otherwise known as Trinny and suzanna

[ayasuda]

Is this the same chef from Hell's Kitchen. You would think he would f-bomb the rooks instead of shooting them.

[Barred Wobbler]

I've never had rook.

[seggs]

Does he bore everyone else like he bores me? He's almost as bad as Laurel and Hardy, otherwise known as Trinny and suzanna
well at least they try to treat tits nice!lol

[Gill Osborne]

He's just a total pillock who's trying to recapture his fading star by doing his utmost to upset folks :C
Last week he was extolling the virtues of eating horses - did NOT go down too well on my riding site :C

Boring boring boring tv :storm: It's obviously easier and cheaper to produce cr*p like this than a decent intelligent documentary :brains:
I've been on holiday this last five days yet never turned the tv on once except for Springwatch - there just hasn't been owt else worth wasting time over :'D

[Woody]

I didn't watch the programme because I can't stand the guy, but aren't rooks the original 'four and twenty black birds, baked in a pie'?

Woody

[Ben Nevis]

Is this the same chef from Hell's Kitchen. You would think he would f-bomb the rooks instead of shooting them.

Yes the very same man.Failed footballer and after last night..a desperate Chef/TV Celeb.As I work with children,I found it pathetic to see his Son,dressed in camoflauge clothing and shooting at Rooks sitting on a tree from close distance."What a ****".

[Capercaillie71]

I watched this programme, and I don't see what the problem is. As he pointed out, large numbers of rooks are shot every year - why not make use of them? Given that I eat chicken, I don't see how I can object to anyone eating rooks.

However, it was slightly disturbing to see him encouraging his son to take an interest in guns at an early age.

[Gill Osborne]

Forgot to add there was a bit in one of the weekend papers about how upset he is at one of his lambs he was rearing on David Beckham's land being killed by a mystery beast. According to an 'expert' it was taken by a big cat!!!
How exciting......the Beast of Beckingham Palace! :clap:

LOL Posh should be ok.....no meat on her for the cat to be interested in :'D

[scampo]

Boring boring boring tv... It's obviously easier and cheaper to produce cr*p like this than a decent intelligent documentary...

Well said, Gill. Ah... if only the money didn't follow people like him and programmes like that - there's the rub; and it follows them because they have an audience. And I suppose we'd be called elitist or the like if we dared to argue against that audience's tastes.

Even my son was telling me yesterday that the new Big Brother was much, much worse than the last, which he thought had reached rock bottom. But, as I say, there must be an audience out there - and a big one, to satisfy the advertisers.

I'm reminded of a poem by Philip Larkin:

Fiction and the Reading Public

Give me a thrill, says the reader,
Give me a kick;
I don’t care how you succeed or
What subject you pick.
Chose something you know all about
That’ll sound like real life:
Your childhood, your Dad pegging out,
How you sleep with your wife.

But that’s not sufficient, unless
You make me feel good –
Whatever you’re ‘trying to express’
Let it be understood
That ‘somehow’ God plaits up the threads,
Makes ‘all for the best’,
That we may lie quiet in our beds
And not be ‘depressed’.

For I call the tune in this racket:
I pay your screw,
Write reviews and the bull on the jacket –
So stop looking blue
And start serving up your sensations
Before it’s too late;
Just please me for two generations –
You’ll be ‘truly great’.

Philip Larkin

[KnockerNorton]

Nowt wrong with eating horses, Gill - 50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong!

Incidently, the rooks that are shot for food are 'branchers' - the young chicks that are just at the point of fledging. Nobody eats full-grown rooks (nobody in their right mind, anyway). I find it a bit mean to eat fledglings, it's hardly sporting and it doesn't seem very fair either. But shooting branchers is, and has been for a long time, a popular sport among landowners and shooting types.

Incidently, Giles Coren, the restaurant critic, was writing in the Times the other week how he and his mate were happily taking pot shots at breeding rooks at his neighbour's property - the reason being that they wake his neighbour up! He said he gets about 2 a week. That, to me, is pointless, wrong and especially mean when they have young. There's a lot of it about though - rooks are seen as fair game by just about everyone with a gun.

I've got no problem eating a driven woodcock, lamped hare, shot teal or other wildfowl, and have done, but I would draw the line at fledglings and breeding birds on moral grounds alone.

I recall Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall climbing a rook nest to take the chicks to eat, in Cook on the Wild Side.

In a way, it's good that people are reconnecting with wild food, as that gives these animals a 'value' in their mind, which tends to make people care about them more and want to preserve them. But I think if you're going to kill somethign to eat then it at least deserves to have had a chance at life first, and a fighting (sporting?) chance of eluding you if it's good enough. Quite what chance a 5 week old rook has as it leaves the nest for the first time, well.......

[Gashead]

Well said. I've enjoyed horse when I've eaten it.

[Capercaillie71]

Nobody eats full-grown rooks (nobody in their right mind, anyway). I find it a bit mean to eat fledglings, it's hardly sporting and it doesn't seem very fair either. But shooting branchers is, and has been for a long time, a popular sport among landowners and shooting types......

I've got no problem eating a driven woodcock, lamped hare, shot teal or other wildfowl, and have done, but I would draw the line at fledglings and breeding birds on moral grounds alone.



This is a fair argument and has made me reconsider my earlier comments. However, I suppose it depends on whether you consider what was going on as a sporting activity or a means of harvesting wild food. Obviously it's a blurred boundary and most rook shooting is purely for 'sport'. However, in this programme, he decided he wanted to eat rook, went out into the woods and shot some and then cooked them. Is that any different from eating a chicken? They don't have a sporting chance either - it's just that we are disconnected from the killing part of the process.

I suppose there are parallels with the Lewis Guga hunt, which originated not as a sporting activity, but as a means of harvesting much needed protein.

One thing I will take issue with is a comment Gordon Ramsey made, which was that 'controlling' rook numbers is best done by shooting the fledglings. Even the most basic knowledge of population dynamics would suggest that killing young birds (a high proportion of which will die anyway) is unlikely to be an effective way of controlling the population.

[Brian Stone]

Agree very much with Poecile here, except that I think harvesting fledglings for food can be acceptable, c.f. Gannets. Caper's quite right to point out it's effect on populations.

However, I suspect the item was more about ensuring further publicity for the so-called celebrity rather than any attempt to get people to connect with food, wild or otherwise.

And when did we start handing out OBEs for swearing and shouting a lot?

[saluki]

Agree very much with Poecile here, except that I think harvesting fledglings for food can be acceptable, c.f. Gannets. Caper's quite right to point out it's effect on populations.

However, I suspect the item was more about ensuring further publicity for the so-called celebrity rather than any attempt to get people to connect with food, wild or otherwise.

And when did we start handing out OBEs for swearing and shouting a lot?

Many gunmakers used to produce specific 'rook rifles' - with slightly larger calibres than your average .22 (from obscure calibres such as .22 hornet and .22 swift, up to .310 cal.). Not sure why - I think .22's only became popular in the UK after 1900.

I'd agree with Poecile, taking pot-shots at adult rooks simply because they're making a noise is wrong, and condemns their offsprings to death by starvation. Don't really have a problem with shooting juvs to eat though if I'm honest.

I'd agree with you Brian about Ramsey - the man's obnoxious. Why do TV bosses think we want to watch self-important bullies humiliating inadequate individuals who'll do anything for their four minutes of fame?

Jonathan

[nick scarle]

Anyone remember the Two Ronnies sketch about The Rook Restaurant ? (showing my age now) where every dish has Rook in it, including such delicacies as Rook-and-raspberry-ripple ...

RC: "This is certainly not the place to come to do if you don't like Rook"
RB: "Actually it is".
RC: "Why?".
RB: "Because we serve bloody awful Rook, that's why. It's old, tough and stringy".

[bobwoodcock]

I remember going down into our local woods to a Romany gypsy family and their horse drawn caravan when I was a young boy for a meal of rook,nice people ,nice memories.

[KnockerNorton]

When you watch Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares, in which he's actually quite thoughtful and seems genuinely caring, you realise that his shouty-sweary persona is just an act. That's his schtick, and that's what they pay him for. A bit like Jeremy Clarkson, really. If either of them were half as obnoxious, bullying and misanthropic in real life then they wouldn't be married with families!

Rook rifles were marketed as a good gun for ladies, if I recall correctly.

I wish we had horse meat in Tesco - I prefer it to beef. I'd rather eat one than bet on one, put it that way.

[Brian Stone]

When you watch Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares, in which he's actually quite thoughtful and seems genuinely caring, you realise that his shouty-sweary persona is just an act. That's his schtick, and that's what they pay him for. A bit like Jeremy Clarkson, really. If either of them were half as obnoxious, bullying and misanthropic in real life then they wouldn't be married with families!
True, but it's still an unneccessary and unpleasant act. How are we supposed to discourage bullying among the young when it is apparently rewarded in role-models (which, depressingly, he probably is).

[Andrew Whitehouse]

RB: "Because we serve bloody awful Rook, that's why. It's old, tough and stringy".

'Stringy'? Maybe they were serving Carrion Crow by mistake.

[PYRTLE]

True, but it's still an unneccessary and unpleasant act. How are we supposed to discourage bullying among the young when it is apparently rewarded in role-models (which, depressingly, he probably is).

The "OFF" button on one's TV set if you think the content is likely to offend or have a negative influence on any of the viewers or young people, particularly if you've previously experienced the programme. Better (IMO) to be doing something practical / or failing that, go birding.

[KorHaan]

Gordon Ramsey is on Dutch television as well; I watched it once. Nice but boring after ten minutes. It's a role he plays, his programme nicely fits in with all the other dreadful s**t that is terrorizing our commercial network.

you've seen one you've seen them all.

The great DONOR SHOW - hoax seems to be an all time low even Gordon can't equal.

Greetings, Ronald

[KnockerNorton]

His creased up face makes me chortle. It's like he's been sleeping face-down with his head wedged in a corner, and he's just woken up.

[Brian Stone]

The "OFF" button on one's TV set if you think the content is likely to offend or have a negative influence on any of the viewers or young people, particularly if you've previously experienced the programme. Better (IMO) to be doing something practical / or failing that, go birding.

How is this comment in any way relevant to my point about honours you quoted?

[PYRTLE]

Brian - it was my response on the posting to your message about bullying / role models and the effect on others. The quote regarding honours was by another bf member, and not commented by I.

[Brian Stone]

It was me that refered to honours initially and that was the reward I refered to in the quote. He still got the OBE as a result of the popularisation of that persona whether you or I had the telly on or not.

[stuart C smith]

I've never had rook.
my grandad [ when a boy] used to catch sparrows with a net in the ivy of his local church and sell them to the locals for pies.

[Vectis Birder]

My late uncle used to shoot pigeons for eating. I had a bit of pigeon pie once and found it was vile.

[Barred Wobbler]

Pigeon breast is wonderful meat. The carcases make great stock for soup also, so nothing goes to waste.

Perhaps the recipe was at fault?

[redeyedvideo]

'Stringy'? Maybe they were serving Carrion Crow by mistake.


I got it Andrew. Some of the hypocritical posts are equally as laughable.

This reminds me of Sophie Grigson's programme where she ate Ortolan Buntings, another species in desperate need of 'controlling' I don't think.


Dave J

[da2m]

are you lot arguing over the person or the subject.

G.R is a great motivator/chef and if you don't like him, don't watch him.

as for eatting rooks, if you eat meat or go fishing your a hypocrite regardless wether you watch birds or not.

at least they were eatting what they shot and not just for sport!

[redeyedvideo]

are you lot arguing over the person or the subject.

Who's arguing?

G.R is a great motivator/chef and if you don't like him, don't watch him.

I don't.

as for eatting rooks, if you eat meat or go fishing your a hypocrite regardless wether you watch birds or not.

I don't

at least they were eatting what they shot and not just for sport!


They're not. They're doing it for a sensasionalist TV programme just like C4 showing pictures of Princess Di dying in a car crash.


Dave J

[Vectis Birder]

Pigeon breast is wonderful meat. The carcases make great stock for soup also, so nothing goes to waste.

Perhaps the recipe was at fault?


I don't know, this was around 1976, when I was young and innocent!

[Barred Wobbler]

Might be worth another try?;)

[seggs]

True, but it's still an unneccessary and unpleasant act. How are we supposed to discourage bullying among the young when it is apparently rewarded in role-models (which, depressingly, he probably is).
hi brian
thats the whole point of this post..
its as bad as the royal family(and i am a royalist) following traditional hunting and shooting themes..do we need to carry on the old styles and traditions and promote them to this scale? hunting like ramsey goes back centuries..for food..and like most high up chefs are always looking for something different to serve up...but i think the kids should be shown to live with nature and support it not eat it..

[Isurus]

hi brian
thats the whole point of this post..
its as bad as the royal family(and i am a royalist) following traditional hunting and shooting themes..do we need to carry on the old styles and traditions and promote them to this scale? hunting like ramsey goes back centuries..for food..and like most high up chefs are always looking for something different to serve up...but i think the kids should be shown to live with nature and support it not eat it..

Couldn't disagree more. I'd much rather the kids were shown how to eat natural food (provided it is sufficiently abundant as in this case) than not (in which case they'll continue to eat crap without thinking about it - crap produced unnaturally in ways that produce far worse consequences for the environment than a few woodcock or rooks here or there).

[Barred Wobbler]

hi brian
thats the whole point of this post..
its as bad as the royal family(and i am a royalist) following traditional hunting and shooting themes..do we need to carry on the old styles and traditions and promote them to this scale? hunting like ramsey goes back centuries..for food..and like most high up chefs are always looking for something different to serve up...but i think the kids should be shown to live with nature and support it not eat it..


Where is the dividing line? Is it OK to eat a legally-shot rook? No?

What about a legally-shot pheasant? No?

Or a legally-shot duck? No?

Or a farmed duck (like the one we had on Sunday)?

Or a farmed chicken?

Venison? Beef?

Or any meat at all?

Where does nature end and "we" start? As far as I'm aware we are part of nature and it is part of our nature that we should eat meat, farmed or otherwise. Those with a vegetarian principle may disgree, that is their right and I respect it, but for the rest of us, the majority, remember that all the meat we eat, beef, chicken, pheasant or rook has been killed for us first.

It still will taste good and do you good.

[g8ina]

The only TV chef I have any time for is good old Keith Floyd. But on eating juv rooks, anyone have qualms about veal ? Same thing in my book.

[Farnboro John]

My word you lot go on sometimes. how about some ground rules?

1. Is it going to go extinct? No - proceed, yes - stop

2. Are you going to eat it (or sell it for eating which is the same thing) No - stop, yes - proceed and enjoy.

Otherwise you might as well get into whether eating meat is all right, and if its OK for Orcas (who are smart enough to know better but play with their food) its all right for us, frankly.

John

[KnockerNorton]

Alan et al., just curious - what if it were, say, fledgling Starlings or House Sparrows? Would it be ok to eat them? It was legal until last year, and nestlings/fledglings of every kind were eaten in rural areas until about 100 years ago.

So I'll put it back to you, where do *you* draw the line about what wild food it would be acceptable to eat? Would it just be scarcity or legality? Would personal ethics come into any decision (eg like my randomly not liking the idea of eating something so young).

At the minute you'd be within your rights to take Collared Dove squabs, various gull or corvid chicks or eggs etc. After all, not much differenc ebetween a young rook and a young jay/magpie/carrion crow except tradition

[Farnboro John]

It may not be a bird but I do enjoy a big lump of hot dead baa-lamb.

And Duckling a l'orange is a bird and a very tasty one.

Pass the pepper, please.

John

[stronzo]

what if it were, say, fledgling Starlings or House Sparrows? Would it be ok to eat them?

Personally I would say good luck to them. I got served this by a family in Greece once, baked, everything left in place. Definitely goes down as one of the worst moments of my life

Another one for the duck in orange please.

[campbellewan]

Im a veggie, birder, ringer (what a shocking combo you might say!).

If the rooks were going to be shot anyway....and i get the impression from the gamekeeper that they were.....then eating them is a better option than not. I do object to him encouraging his kid and then saying that more birds should be "back on the menu" though.

What I found more disturbing was the use of veal. I understand folk want to eat veal and, although i personally find this a particularly inhumane meat, i suppose thats peoples choice. But to have those w*nker estate agents burning and ballsing up every plate of veal they touched knowing what the animals been through to get there was really awful.

I do love the f word and although gordon ramsay has become what he always stated he would not...a celebrity chef....he is still light years removed from ainsley harriet and anthony worral in terms of cooking and entertainment.

At least he understands the connection between where food comes from and the plate which sadly most folk do not !

[KnockerNorton]

At least he understands the connection between where food comes from and the plate which sadly most folk do not !

Agreed to a point, but I think that like Hugh F-W he's gotten a bit zealous with it, and is maybe doing stuff just because it's quirky before actually thinking about the ethics of it too much.

They may be making the connection between where food comes from and the plate, but are they necessarily making the connection between the fact that meat was once a life?

I eat meat like there's no tomorrow - from horses to woodcocks, and I'd give most things a try. But I think that eating meat carries an element of responsibility to the creatures that have died for it, and the fact that we are taking their lives. Compassion comes into it. I'm just not sure that shooting a branching 5-week old rook is at all compassionate. They deserve a shot at life first, especially seeing as they're wild and Ramsey's therefore robbing them of quite a pleasant one before they've even left the nest tree.

[Barred Wobbler]

Alan et al., just curious - what if it were, say, fledgling Starlings or House Sparrows? Would it be ok to eat them? It was legal until last year, and nestlings/fledglings of every kind were eaten in rural areas until about 100 years ago.

So I'll put it back to you, where do *you* draw the line about what wild food it would be acceptable to eat? Would it just be scarcity or legality? Would personal ethics come into any decision (eg like my randomly not liking the idea of eating something so young).

At the minute you'd be within your rights to take Collared Dove squabs, various gull or corvid chicks or eggs etc. After all, not much differenc ebetween a young rook and a young jay/magpie/carrion crow except tradition


Personally I'm not into eating young birds, but I'm not about to criticise others for doing it. As I said above, I've never had rook, but that's not to say I would throw a wobbly if someone was to serve it up in front of me. I don't have a problem with eating game either, I love it.

I don't know that age comes into it. I've rarely refused a nice bit of lamb.