Turkey Vulture

[Stephen Dunstan]

Given the news of one in NE Cumbria today anyone know if this is a realistic vagrant?

Stephen.

[Gill Osborne]

If it is then Gilly's gonna throw a sickie at work!!!!!

[steve_nova]

Hi Stephen,
I would have thought it would be an escapee rather than a vagrant. It would never make it across the Atlantic, would it anyone???

[postcardcv]

Personally I would doubt that it's a genuine vagrant... and think it's even less likely that it will be accepted on to the British list.

[Michael Frankis]

There was one escaped from the Kielder Raptor Centre (a zoo) a few years ago, spent a day or two flying round Kielder Forest before it was recaptured.

Sounds like he's had another freedom bid!

Michael

[Tim Allwood]

could never make it!

[MarkHows]

If there is no chance of it being a genuine vagrant why are The Cumbria bird club going to so much trouble to arrange viewing?

[Lol]

I had one a couple of years ago at Lavernock Point - never considered it could be anything other than an escape. We have a hawking centre a few miles away, and sure enough they (eventually) admitted that one of their's might be missing. It did end up on the Glamorgan birdline, mind.

[Colin]

Although the concensus here is that it is an escapee, there are also a lot of question marks in this thread. So, let me put a few points in its favour of being a genuine vagrant.

Some individuals of this species are long distance migrants, travelling from Canada to South America. Although it is quite rightly stated that there are no thermals over water (Atlantic Ocean), the satellite tracked young Honey Buzzard made a long and suicidal trip as it turns out last year (correct me if it is more than a year ago) over the Atlantic Ocean. On top of all that, there have been lots of depressions which have taken a more northerly route than is usual and which appears to have resulted in many rarities in Ireland, Scotland and Iceland so this vulture may have come via Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands. The time of year is also correct for a migrating species to turn up in an unusual place. That is the evidence for. There may be more.

I am not saying that this is a genuine vagrant but have just put some ideas down to be discussed.

[Michael Frankis]

Equally, there is a Turkey Vulture, with an established track record of escaping, kept at a zoo within a few miles of the sighting . . . .

Michael

[Colin]

Michael,
Good point but according to reports that I have seen, this bird is unringed and if it had come from a keeper/zoo should it, as a raptor, not have a closed ring on it? Maybe if a BirdForum member is near to this zoo perhaps he/she could pop in and see if their bird is there?

[Tim Allwood]

tick if you like....
you only have to convince yourself!
no chance of this getting on British List
main point against is the crossing of a large body of open water.

[Colin]

Tim,
I am not ticking the bird for two reasons. One, I don't believe that this bird is a genuine vagrant and most importantly, two, I have not seen the bird and probably never will.

In terms of crossing large bodies of water, I have just looked up the details of the Honey Buzzard mentioned above. It flew for 100 hours and covered 5000kms. It came down from Scotland, according to the maps and went out over the Atlantic from Cornwall, so for arguments sake, lets say it did 1000kms from the middle of Scotland to the tip of Cornwall as a conservative estimate, that still leaves 4000kms over open water. From my experience of satellite tracked Whooper Swans back in the 1990s, height is also recorded, so if it had landed on a ship for example that would be known.

I agree that it will probably never make it onto the British List and may well be claimed by that zoo in a few days time but I still think a raptor from the Americas could make it here.

[Tim Allwood]

Watcha Colin

just found this http://www.cordis.lu/express/archive/041002/finally.htm
- guess it's the same bird. details a bit diff.

'Having only learned to fly at the end of August, the two-month old fledgling left its nest in the highlands of Scotland on September 15. Destination: Africa's ivory coast. The bird was being monitored as part of an attempt to understand that breed's migration patterns.

It's route should have taken it through England, France, Spain and North Africa. However, it started drifting off course, crossing over Cardiff last Monday and out into the Atlantic, past the Azores, before finally turning east toward Madeira.

The satellite also revealed that although the buzzard had come down in the sea, its radio signal was still transmitting and showed that it was moving slowly, perhaps clinging to a piece of driftwood or a fishing vessel.'

not really crossing the atlantic but a remarkable feat nonetheless:clap:

[Colin]

Tim,
I got my info re the distances from the map at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2289149.stm

but ooops, I did not scroll down far enough to see the details about the boat or driftwood. Same info as you quote. Even so, as you say a remarkable achievement of distance. What is needed as in the case of several Canada Geese over the years, a bird with an American continent ring on (neck collar in one case with the geese). Until then, well I will just carry on watching raptors, escapees or not - fantastic birds.

[Tim Allwood]

Hiya Colin

in a similar vein there's been a Crested Caracara in North Norfolk for a while. Lovely bird though and livened up a couple of quiet days. I saw it before I saw my first 'real' ones but it didn't really detract from them at all.
Waiting for a White-tailed Eagle this winter......escape or not that would be a bird to see.
:bounce:

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Colin & Tim,

Far more detail here:
http://www.roydennis.org/migration%20maps%202002.htm

Should mention though, Honey Buzzard is among the best able of the larger raptors (probably 2nd best after Osprey) to cross open water, they regularly cross the middle of the Med without bothering to use the trad shortcuts via Gibraltar and the Bosporus (that's why more Honey Buzzards than anything else get shot in Malta).

And remember - despite valiant efforts, this bird did end up dead, rather than crossing . . .

Turkey Vultures, by contrast, are very badly designed for this type of sea crossing.

There's one accepted record of Swainson's Hawk (a long-winged species, with fairly similar wing shape to Honey Buzz) from Norway

Michael

[logos]

There was a Swainson's Hawk in NW France a couple of weeks ago, Bald Eagle has been recorded in Euope as has the N.Am race of Rough-legged Buzzard and several American Kestrels. Many, if not all of these birds have probably made some part of the crossing on board ships and some may have been escapes.

I suspect very few people will bother going for a TV ; - )

Spud

[Colin]

Michael,
Thanks for the Roy Dennis link. I had found some links of his but they were dead - error 404. I agree with your comment re the best suited raptor for a long water crossing.


Tim,
Yes, White-tailed Eagle. I saw a pair on Mull during 2001. It took me two days but eventually found a bird in the south east of the island which was followed immediately by its mate. It was a clear blue sky day and they went soaring from a small wood. I watched them for ages as they eventually disappeared through sheer height into the wild blue yonder and I was using a scope in the latter stages. Probably one of my top 10 memorable bird sightings.

[christineredgate]

I read this thread started by Stephen last night,and was interested when N East Cumbria was mentioned,although i live in the south West.but on reading the parts of this thread I can understand, there is a Bird of prey centre at Lowther Castle near Penrith,and I do know they have vultures there.We went to see them a couple of months ago.these birds do fly around within the castle grounds ,under supervision,but nevertheless,one could have flown from there.
Do not know if this is of any help or not.also I think there is a centre in the Kirby Lonsdale /Stephen area but then that is much further south.
Christine.

[Highway Man]

Apparently (according to Rare Bird Alert) there was an escaped Turkey Vulture and an American Black Vulture in North Yorkshire During the spring.

Mark

[HelenB]

Missed this thread when it first started! Am interested as TV's are a very common bird in my area - Texas, but as a Cumbrian wanted to find out more. I've posted a message on the Cumbria Birds Yahoo Group, as there were quite a few posts there about it. So if I get a reply on the status, I'll let y'all know.

There is also a Birds of Prey Centre near Carlisle, as well as the Lowther one that Christine mentioned.

[Steve G]

I think genuine N.American race Merlin have made it across into Europe. With respect to broad-winged raptors is Northern(Hen) harrier a confirmed transatlantic vagrant?

[HelenB]

I got a reply on the BirdingCumbria Yahoo forum.

Its seems that they do not know for sure whether it was an escapee or true vagrant. Apparently according to one of the Bird Information services over there, both a Turkey and a Black Vulture escaped from a collection in Yorkshire some time ago. The Turkey Vulture was apparently seen in Yorkshire in the Spring. The 'Cumbrian' Turkey Vulture was not ringed, but it wasn't known if the Yorks. escapee was ringed or not.

It is thought to be unlikely that a Turkey Vulture would be able to cross the Atlantic by itself, but feasible that a bird could be 'ship assisted'.

It will be interesting to see where this vulture is sighted again!

[Andrew Rowlands]

It used to be thought that Honey Buzzards were not capable of crossing relatively small bodies of water!

I'd still be VERY sceptical if I saw it locally!

Andy.

[Harry Hussey]

Hi all,
"I think genuine N.American race Merlin have made it across into Europe. With respect to broad-winged raptors is Northern(Hen) harrier a confirmed transatlantic vagrant?"
North American Merlin("Taiga Merlin") has been seen over here at least once(Cape 2000,missed it by a few hours,but probably saw it anyway:had inadequate views of a Merlin hunting Starlings near Lough Errul,then left the island.Later that day the Taiga Merlin was found mantling a dead Starling not far from there....)
American Hen Harrier("Northern Harrier" or "Marsh Hawk") has been seen in the UK a few times(?).
Harry H

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Tim,
You wrote:"Waiting for a White-tailed Eagle this winter......escape or not that would be a bird to see."
This from the Birdguides website:
"11:43 28/10/03 White-tailed Eagle Norfolk Hunstanton 10:30"
Also a Red-flanked Bluetail in Norfolk:would love either of these,or one of the Dusky Warblers that are on the east coast of the UK.3 Common Cranes the best in Ireland so far today,the sp. is still quite rare here(saw one in Co.Kerry back in Feb)
Harry H

[Michael Frankis]

American Hen Harrier("Northern Harrier" or "Marsh Hawk") has been seen in the UK a few times(?).
Harry H
Hi Harry,

I seem to remember all the UK records of hudsonius were reviewed and tossed out a few years ago after evidence that the European race could throw up occasional juvs resembling hudsonius. There was one record from the Hebrides that was thought to be very probably hudsonius, but the documentation wasn't quite up to what was felt necessary for a sole UK record

BWP Concise mentions an accepted record of hudsonius for the Faroe Islands.

Michael

[Tim Allwood]

Hi Harry
yep the eagle was seen this a.m. but not again may turn up somewhere in Norfolk fingers crossed.
managed to get a Dusky tho - found one at Waxham yesterday!!!
the Bluetail was in a privaste garden and not seen today