British Birds in Voos Order.

[Andrew]

I currently use Works spreadsheets to keep my lists and someone mentioned their preference for bird lists being in Voos order. Does anyone keep their birds in Voos order in a standard spreadsheet programe and how do they go about it?

I have thought of putting numbers in the fields according to the order (Voos)they are in and then doing a 'sort' using that column with the numbers in. First I need a list of the British birds in Voos order, any good recommendations?

[robinm]

Hi Andrew: The British List on the BOU site is available in Voous (sic) Order. It can be found here (http://www.bou.org.uk/recbrlst.html).

Alternatively the list I used for GGBC is in Voous order too (I think!)

[Jane Turner]

I am sad enough to have done that already. Like a copy, it already has Black Lark added :)

[robinm]

I am sad enough to have done that already. Like a copy, it already has Black Lark added :)
Can't be any sadder than me trying to maintan a 10000 entry database of all the world's birds ;) - (and failing!)

[Michael Frankis]

Alternatively the list I used for GGBC is in Voous order too (I think!)
Nope it isn't!! - that one's in some sort of Sibley-Monroe order.

Michael

[robinm]

Nope it isn't!! - that one's in some sort of Sibley-Monroe order.

MichaelYeah, sorry you're right.

[jeff]

I currently use Works spreadsheets to keep my lists and someone mentioned their preference for bird lists being in Voos order. Does anyone keep their birds in Voos order in a standard spreadsheet programe and how do they go about it?

I have thought of putting numbers in the fields according to the order (Voos)they are in and then doing a 'sort' using that column with the numbers in. First I need a list of the British birds in Voos order, any good recommendations?

I'd be interest to know why also. What are the advantages? I keep mine in alpha, only because i'd never find the birds if they were in voous order, the only reason i can see for using voous order would be to group birds together, there must be other reasons?

I use the BOU list http://www.bou.org.uk/recbrlst.html which has the list in voous order as well.

Edit: I'll have to learn to type quicker.........

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Robin,

Just checked the BOU list too:
http://www.bou.org.uk/recbrlst.html

That isn't in Voous order any more either, since they shifted the waterfowl & gamebirds to the start of the list (for the reasons why, see the 'Recent Taxonomic Changes to the British List' link on that webpage). But it is the official British List, so I guess we'll all have to start getting used to using it now!

I wonder if Professor Voous is turning in his grave now . . .

Michael

[robinm]

Hi Robin,

Just checked the BOU list too:
http://www.bou.org.uk/recbrlst.html

That isn't in Voous order any more either, since they shifted the waterfowl & gamebirds to the start of the list (for the reasons why, see the 'Recent Taxonomic Changes to the British List' link on that webpage). But it is the official British List, so I guess we'll all have to start getting used to using it now!

I wonder if Professor Voous is turning in his grave now . . .

Michael
I was going to mention the fact that Voous is no longer the thing to do but as I haven't really got to grips with having swans etc. first myself I decided not to. ;)

BTW on the BOU site the Voous order list is still available on that same page.

[Andrew]

I'd be interest to know why also. What are the advantages? I keep mine in alpha, only because i'd never find the birds if they were in voous order, the only reason i can see for using voous order would be to group birds together, there must be other reasons?......
It will allow me to discuss my list with other birders but the most important aspect is to group the birds together if I wanted to (and I do). I will check your link as it looks promising, thanks.

By the way what is alpha? Do you mean aplphabetic?

[Andrew]

........ But it is the official British List, so I guess we'll all have to start getting used to using it now!........
Michael,
Thanks for that, I reckon my list names are pretty up to date and based on the Collins' full names so I should do the standard thing and use the official British list order.

[jeff]

It will allow me to discuss my list with other birders but the most important aspect is to group the birds together if I wanted to (and I do). I will check your link as it looks promising, thanks.

By the way what is alpha? Do you mean aplphabetic?

I can't type alphabetic either, so just typed alpha :-)

[Andrew]

I changed my mind and decided to go for the Voous option as part two of the list did not copy well into my word processor.

Now I have a big job of assigning the numbers to each bird to fit into my spreadsheet. How sad is that!!!

[Andrew]

What are category D and E species doing there if they are not on the British List? Are these alll escapes that have occurred?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Andrew,

There's actually no difference between part 2 of the New BOU list - both are Barn Owl to Baltimore Oriole, and in the same order - the changes only affect part 1

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

What are category D and E species doing there if they are not on the British List? Are these alll escapes that have occurred?
Hi again . . yes, these are doubtfuls (D) and escapes (E)

Michael

[Andrew]

.....There's actually no difference between part 2 of the New BOU list - both are Barn Owl to Baltimore Oriole, and in the same order - the changes only affect part 1.......
Michael,
Thanks for making me realise that. I feel it might be better to do it in Voous order if that is the way the majority do it. Then again if I use the British List order I will save myself the work when the majority change over to it.

[Andrew]

Is Voous order the international way of doing things?

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Andrew,

The Voous order is - or was - pretty much universally used throughout Europe. But the genetic evidence for moving the waterfowl & gamebirds to the start of the list is very strong, and I think again probably everyone in Europe is going to switch to the new BOU order over the next year or so.

The Americans use a different order, I always have trouble finding passerines in American field guides (e.g. crows right near the start of the passerines; finches after buntings instead of before, etc). The non-passerines are very similar to the Voous order though.

Michael

[Brian Stone]

I changed my mind and decided to go for the Voous option as part two of the list did not copy well into my word processor.

Now I have a big job of assigning the numbers to each bird to fit into my spreadsheet. How sad is that!!!

Souldn't be a big job. Just paste the list of names into your spreadsheet in the order you want then use the spreadsheet to fill an adjacent column with a sequence. In Excel type 1 and 2 in the first two rows, highlight both these cells, then drag the bottom righthand corner down the bottom of your list.

[Andrew]

But the list is in text format and won't paste into their own fields in a spreadsheet will they?


I have been offered a solution by a klind BF member.

[Tim Allwood]

Hi folks

No-one out there favour Sibley and Monroe order? Don’t know of a Brit list that follows it but there’s an excellent website for the world list complete with updates, splits, incipient species etc.
I switched to this upon publication (‘90 and ‘93) so it’s now second nature. The classification uses DNA-DNA hybridisation techniques (I’m sure Mr Frankis could give a birders’ ‘blaggers’ guide to this if needed....although I get the feeling you’re a Vouus fan Michael? ;) ) and represents evolutionary relationships more closely than other lists, putting new world vultures with herons and not with old world vultures etc. It’s actually very intersting when you get into it.
So why more publications and birders etc don’t follow it is a little surprising.....I thought it would catch on. Having said that, several Oriental region guides now follow S & M (Inskipp et al for Indian subcontinent, and Robson et al. for whole of South East Asia) and BOU are beginning the what must be wholesale change to the Vouus order. This is the way for the future surely........

Get on board – ‘the times they are a changin’ to qoute Bob Dylan – anathaema to me as a child of the punk generation :C but hey we can all change........!

[Bluetail]

Hi again . . yes, these are doubtfuls (D) and escapes (E)
I thought it was "D" for dustbin.

Jason

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Tim,

The Sibley-Monroe order has a lot going for it; the problem is that so far, it has not been fully independently tested, and there could easily be errors in it. So the main listing committees are holding fire on introducing it, until the bugs in their order have been removed. They think it better to stay with the old system, rather than bring in the new and find they have to keep on making minor amendments every few months.

Same reason as why the BOU haven't done anything with the Herring Gull mess yet - they want it properly sorted, before they make any changes.

-----

Hi Jason,

Or 'D' for dodgy ;)

Michael

[robinm]

No-one out there favour Sibley and Monroe order? Don’t know of a Brit list that follows it but there’s an excellent website for the world list complete with updates, splits, incipient species etc.

I use a modified S&M list for the GGBC and although I think I have found most S&M websites can you post the address.

Thanks,

[James]

Andrew

You could have, say three number columns on the side of your spreadsheet - one for each order i.e. alpha, voous and "new" order. That way a simple A-Z command on the appropriate column can reorder them backwards and forwards at will!

The changing names of birds e.g. from wren to winter wren and from oystercatcher to eurasioan oystercatcher means that alpha lists suddenly become very unfamiliar. At least with Voous if a scarce sandpiper or warbler turns up you know which area to start searching!

James

[Andrew]

James,

Good idea and a lot more work!! I favour incorporating a BOU order into the list too as it would not take much time with a few species being moved to the top of the list.

[Tim Allwood]

Robin,

here's the link to Rolf de Bys's S & M website - it's the proverbial dog's!
http://www.ornitaxa.com/SM/TaxChanges.html

[robinm]

Thanks, Tim. I had found that one. The main problem with it is the odd splits in the 2003 update e.g. brent goose. I may take another look to see if I can still use it.