SE 8x32 low light compatibility (1 Viewer)

charliecapp · May 4, 2004

Hi Y'All: First time on the forum. I've read most of the threads on binoculars to help guide me to my new pair. I'm grateful for all of the insight. I have one remaining question for those who know the SE 8x32 compared with other high-end 8x42 models. I do a lot of interior forest birding and have been known to bird close to dawn and close to dusk. I need to be convinced that the SE 8x32 is going to let in enough light. If not, I'll probably end up with B&L Elite 8x42 or the new Pentax DCF SP 8x42. Anyone care to reassure me? Thank you kindly.

pluvanut · May 4, 2004

charliecapp said:
Hi Y'All: First time on the forum. I've read most of the threads on binoculars to help guide me to my new pair. I'm grateful for all of the insight. I have one remaining question for those who know the SE 8x32 compared with other high-end 8x42 models. I do a lot of interior forest birding and have been known to bird close to dawn and close to dusk. I need to be convinced that the SE 8x32 is going to let in enough light. If not, I'll probably end up with B&L Elite 8x42 or the new Pentax DCF SP 8x42. Anyone care to reassure me? Thank you kindly.

Http://www.betterviewdesired.com/bvd298.htm

contains a lengthy and technical review of the pro's and con's of various objective sizes. I read it as saying (again) 8 x 32 SE equals/beats a lot of much bigger/more expensive glass, but best see for yourself. Can't help from my own experince really. Good luck

Leif · May 4, 2004

charliecapp said:
Hi Y'All: First time on the forum. I've read most of the threads on binoculars to help guide me to my new pair. I'm grateful for all of the insight. I have one remaining question for those who know the SE 8x32 compared with other high-end 8x42 models. I do a lot of interior forest birding and have been known to bird close to dawn and close to dusk. I need to be convinced that the SE 8x32 is going to let in enough light. If not, I'll probably end up with B&L Elite 8x42 or the new Pentax DCF SP 8x42. Anyone care to reassure me? Thank you kindly.

I echo the previous post. At dusk and in murky light my Nikon 8x32 SE is as bright as my Swarovski 8.5x42 EL. I bought it used as it was a good price and I did not expect such performance. I have heard similar comments from others so it does not seem to be just my eyes.

I would not be surprised if the Pentax DCF SP 8x42 were not as bright despite the larger objectives, though I have not done the comparison, so I might be mistaken. The cheaper Pentax 8x42 DCF WP is noticeably less bright if a 7 year old example I tried is anything to go by.

charliecapp · May 4, 2004

Thanks for the two replies. I have read that article from betterviewdesired a few times. I took from it that it only really make a difference if you jump to a 10x42. I just thought I'd get some other experienced opinions. There is still something about choosing the smaller objectives that goes against my instincts.

mike60 · May 5, 2004

From what I have read and seen, it seems that the SE and HG range from Nikon outperform the competitors on brightness. Can anyone explain this to me?

maitreya · May 5, 2004

charliecapp said:
Hi Y'All: First time on the forum. I've read most of the threads on binoculars to help guide me to my new pair. I'm grateful for all of the insight. I have one remaining question for those who know the SE 8x32 compared with other high-end 8x42 models. I do a lot of interior forest birding and have been known to bird close to dawn and close to dusk. I need to be convinced that the SE 8x32 is going to let in enough light. If not, I'll probably end up with B&L Elite 8x42 or the new Pentax DCF SP 8x42. Anyone care to reassure me? Thank you kindly.

I have birded with the Nikon SE 8X32 since 1998 - many thousands of hours studying birds. It has never let me down in a dawn or dusk or other low light situation. I think it is helpful to remember that our view of birds through binoculars is a function not only of the quality of the binocular, but also the inherent physiological processes of human vision. In the dawn or dusk birding situation, we need a certain amount of light to be able to find birds with the naked eye. When that threshold of light is available, most of our pupils will have already closed to the 4 mm exit pupil of an 8x32. So, our view of the birds benefits more from a well corrected binocular with high contrast and high transmission than it does from a larger exit pupil. The main benefit of a larger exit pupil becomes apparent under dark skies at night when our human pupils open up to 5-7 mm. For astronomical use, there is obvious merit in larger objectives and exit pupils up to 7mm for some people.

maitreya · May 5, 2004

mike60 said:
From what I have read and seen, it seems that the SE and HG range from Nikon outperform the competitors on brightness. Can anyone explain this to me?

I am a long time user of Nikon SE 8x32 bins, and Nikkor 35mm camera lenses. In my opinion, Nikon excels is in coating optics to create superior contrast. And this superior contrast enhances our PERCEPTION of brightness and resolution. FWIW

Leif · May 5, 2004

maitreya said:
I am a long time user of Nikon SE 8x32 bins, and Nikkor 35mm camera lenses. In my opinion, Nikon excels is in coating optics to create superior contrast. And this superior contrast enhances our PERCEPTION of brightness and resolution. FWIW

Yes. In my opinion % light transmission on its own does not tell you how bright a binocular's image will appear. It also depends on the contrast which is controlled by the quality of the coatings, and the quality of the optical surfaces i.e the manufacturing tolerances.

mak · May 5, 2004

Leif said:
Yes. In my opinion % light transmission on its own does not tell you how bright a binocular's image will appear. It also depends on the contrast which is controlled by the quality of the coatings, and the quality of the optical surfaces i.e the manufacturing tolerances.

And that the maximum light transmission lies within the right spectral range.

Jonathan B. · May 5, 2004

"In my opinion...light transmission...also depends on the contrast...."

I think this is quite correct, especially with regard to the Nikon SE. I have used the 8x32 SE for four years, and also use Leica Ultravid 7x42. Ultravid matches the Nikon for resolution and contrast. I have compared them side-by-side several times at dusk. The Leica is slightly brighter than the SE in direct comparison. However in actual use, the Nikon appears to provide as useful and bright an image as the Leica. Perhaps the Leica provides a useful image for a few minutes longer, but the difference is negligible. In other comparisons I have learned what many contributors to this forum would tell you--that the 8x32 SE appears to outperform most, if not all, of the 8x42 roof prism binoculars.

charliecapp · May 5, 2004

Weird. So there you have it. Anyone who knows these binocs, swears by these binocs. From guys in the business of testing optics (Steven Ingram) to all the serious birders that subscribe to this forum. I have birded with a very nice pair of poro prisms (B&L Custom 8x36) and waterproofing has never been an issue. Who birds in the pouring rain?? The SE's are wonderfully light compared to any high-end 42mm binocs. They have a remarkable field of view. You can buy 3 pairs of SE 8x32 for the price of 1 Swarovski 8.5x42. All of this obviously begs the question: Why isn't this the best selling pair of serious birding binoculars hands down?? That's what's weird. It doesn't matter to me. They have a cult following and I like the idea of joining a cult. This is one of the healthier ones I can think of.

charliecapp · May 5, 2004

Oh yeah, one more thing of the strange. Nikon doesn't even list these binoculars on their website.

How's Nikon's 25 yr. no-fault warrant? Anyone ever put that to the test?

John Cantelo · May 5, 2004

They're certainly great bins - clearly outperforming Leica 8x32s when I compared them. Oddly enough the reaction of Leica birders who've also made the comaprison is either to fall suddenly quiet or to rubbish the SEs even more! However, it amazing how many folks don't take you quite so seriously as a birder when they see you're sporting supposedly 'naff' porro bins. However, when you meet a fellow SE-addict it's hard not to exchange a knowing smirk. The Se's lack of a high profile is largely a matter of snobbery & fashion,
John

joser · May 5, 2004

Well, quite frankly, I'd rather go out birding knowing I've got a DECENT pair of bins around my neck as oppose to FASIONABLE (equally as decent, but twice as expensive!!)

Waterproof would be nice though!!

Leif · May 5, 2004

Joser4red said:
Well, quite frankly, I'd rather go out birding knowing I've got a DECENT pair of bins around my neck as oppose to FASIONABLE (equally as decent, but twice as expensive!!)

Waterproof would be nice though!!

They don't seem to have taken off in this country for whatever reason. I guess most people make the assumption that a smallish old fashioned porro-prism binocular cannot match a top gun, and never even consider trying it. Many probably consider the shape odd and wrongly assume that it is uncomfortable to hold.

There's something to be said for carrying a 'not a serious birder' binocular. It's easier to remain anonymous!

The only substantial criticism I have is the eye tubes which should be replaced with screw-in screw-out ones ASAP. Anyone at Nikon HQ listening?

There's a similar sort of thing in the photographic world. The latest autofocus Nikon 28mm lens is okay, but not a patch on the old manual focus one which is a real gem.

Blincodave · May 5, 2004

You will see from my earlier thread today 'Please look if you are about to buy some high end bins' that I did try them! Thanks for your 'campaign' on these gems, Leif.

As a specs wearer, I agree with your comments ref eyecups except that when Nikon introduced the 30x MC twist up eyecups for the FScope, I found that although the quoted eye relief remained the same, the new ones felt less comfortable and, subjectively, appeared to have less eye relief.

Leif · May 5, 2004

Blincodave said:
You will see from my earlier thread today 'Please look if you are about to buy some high end bins' that I did try them! Thanks for your 'campaign' on these gems, Leif.

As a specs wearer, I agree with your comments ref eyecups except that when Nikon introduced the 30x MC twist up eyecups for the FScope, I found that although the quoted eye relief remained the same, the new ones felt less comfortable and, subjectively, appeared to have less eye relief.

I have probably achieved Nikon 8x32 SE bore status First Class with bar by now.

The eye relief might be quoted from the surface of the rear lens element. It's a bit of a cheat but many manufacturers measure it that way. The new eye tubes probably eat up more of the quoted eye relief than the old ones. :C

Jonathan B. · May 6, 2004

"Oh yeah, one more thing of the strange. Nikon doesn't even list these binoculars on their website."

Charlie, the 8x32 SE is on the site, but I had a hell of a time finding it. Nikon has one of the worst sites. Try finding spotting scope eyepieces.

charliecapp · May 6, 2004

I'm pretty much a web surfing pro. They must have really burried it. They really don't want anyone using these binoculars do they? Maybe they think that if too many people want them they'll want to raise the price. I'll most likely end up with them. I'll eventually put together a review for the forum.

mike60 · May 6, 2004

I think there is more to owning bins than their pure functionality. If the SE somehow looked like every other roof bin, i dont think i would like them as much as i do. They have always looked strange to me, even for a porro. Those small objectives stuck way out there like ET's eyes - its hard to visualise how the light finds its way through them - but it does so with aplomb. I think they have a certain quirky charm about them.

SE 8x32 low light compatibility (1 Viewer)

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