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Today's puzzlers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Cuckoo-shrike
- Start date
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
Aquila said:
Hi Aquila,
It's a bit early for your choices for moth no 1, except the Nutmeg which is double brooded. I think it's more likely to be a specimen of Frosted Green but I haven't seen any as deep a green as that up north. In fact it so scarce up here I haven't seen many at all. The other possibility is Green Arches but if so it's very early. Size is difficult to judge from the picture.
I think your right with Brown Rustic. The feathered antennae are only possessed by males. The females only have the typical thread like antennae which are most likely in the 'rest position' just under the wings.
Harry Eales.
Last edited:
Cuckoo-shrike
Well-known member
Thanks guys. Waring and Townsend shows Frosted Green as having a different rest position. It's also associated with Oak and there isn't any in the vicinity, so I don't think it can be that. Sorry I forgot to mention size. It's about Green Arches size, so I think it must be that. I've had a couple of species this year that are out earlier than is stated.
The size of the other one would be right for Brown Rustic.
The size of the other one would be right for Brown Rustic.
Cuckoo-shrike
Well-known member
No, thinking about it, it was smaller than Green Arches, so I think that is ruled out.
Andy
Andy
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
Aquila said:
Hello Andy,
Try having a look at the photographs of Nutmeg and Green Arches on the UKmoths website, that may help you in determining your green moth.
Whilst most moths fit into the size parameters given by various authors be aware that dwarf forms can and do occur in most butterfly and moth species, I have come across a good number of dwarf forms over the years in a large number of insect species. Dwarfism is usually caused by larval starvation by eating gead or dying plant material. Those that survive to pupate result in these dwarf forms which appear in perfect condition, just smaller than usual.
Harry Eales.
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
It may not be that relevant that you have no oak nearby. If there is any within half a km or so you might still get them. I've had Oak species (e.g. Spring Usher) but there is precious little within 500m of my garden.
Cuckoo-shrike
Well-known member
Thanks all, for your comments. It's certainly causing some problems. One leading authority thinks it's neither Green Arches nor Nutmeg, but he doesn't know what it is!
Cuckoo-shrike
Well-known member
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
Hello Andy,
You have a Knot Grass there.
Harry Eales.
You have a Knot Grass there.
Harry Eales.
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
2289 Knot Grass Acronicta rumicis. The white commas where the wings meet are a useful feature.
http://cgi.ukmoths.force9.co.uk/show.php?id=72
Edit: Rats. Beaten to it!
http://cgi.ukmoths.force9.co.uk/show.php?id=72
Edit: Rats. Beaten to it!
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
Hello Brian,
It's a tough one. I won't bet my next beer on it, but have you considered Dusky Brocade, it's a possible candidate even if it's a couple of weeks early. Have you any other pictures of it?
Harry Eales.
It's a tough one. I won't bet my next beer on it, but have you considered Dusky Brocade, it's a possible candidate even if it's a couple of weeks early. Have you any other pictures of it?
Harry Eales.
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
No different pics yet but it is in the fridge for the day. This pic is not very representative of the overall feel, which is of a much more uniform, darker moth. I had a good close look at it this morning but couldn't come to a firm conclusion. It closely resembles a Pale-shouldered Brocade, but with dark shoulders! The other candidate was Dark Brocade but the reniform stigmata lack the toothed outer edge.
Dusky Brocade is very variable and has dark forms so this could well be a strong contender. The last pic on Jeff Higgott's site is a very similar looking beastie:
http://jeffhiggott.topcities.com/lepidoptera/systematic_list/Noctuidae/2330.html
Dusky Brocade is very variable and has dark forms so this could well be a strong contender. The last pic on Jeff Higgott's site is a very similar looking beastie:
http://jeffhiggott.topcities.com/lepidoptera/systematic_list/Noctuidae/2330.html
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
Keep throwing in those flies! However, I don't think it is Grey Arches. It is overall rather dark and the only really significant pale marking is the sub-terminal line with the deep W shape. I'll try for a more representative picture tonight.
