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Bird Watcher's Digest Bin Field Test (1 Viewer)

Bill Atwood

Registered User
Supporter
United States
Heard about the upcoming article here on BF. Mag arrived in the mail today. Got excited, couldn't wait to see the tester's opinions.

The article is by the (never seen a bad bin) Porters. Need I say more? No, but I can't help myself. How about:

dreck
drivel
sterile
politically correct
vacuous
wimpy
wussified

Basically its a puff piece for all of their advertisers. I could go on, but you get the idea. There's very little of this candy-coated BS at BF. Guess that's why I spend too much time here.

I've been looking to scale back on my mags, this may be the tipping point on BWD. Maybe I'll look at Alula or one of the UK mags.
 
Well, tell me, Bill -- are any of the bins they reviewed "bad"? If so, which ones? If none, then what are the Porters to say? I haven't see the article myself, but I will as soon as I can get a copy.
 
62 bins supposedly reviewed, tell me Curtis, do you really think they can ALL be good? Well I suppose if someone doesn't give a damn about FOV, CA, resolution, contrast, ER, brightness, edge resolution, handling, build quality, etc then they ARE all good. However, in my not in any way humble opinion, if their threshold for "good" is that low they aren't in any way qualified to be a reviewer. Its a 14 page puff piece with 2 comments that "may" be construed as being negative.

Here on BF you can find people trashing Leica, Swaro, Zeiss and Nikon. In BWD there's nary a negative for those, or the ultimate in quality Alpen, Zhumell, Carson, Simmons or Weaver bins. They do have a short list of "Bins of Note", but they don't really indicate why they are. You are wasting your money if you are looking to buy a copy for this article alone. You can get vastly more and better info here on BF in just a few minutes.
 
Why all the fuss?
The Nikon SE 8X32 is the best bin in the world and all others are second rate. I'll bet the Porter's, as usual, ignored the SE 8X altogether, choosing instead to focus their attention on second tier bins. It's understandable they would be kind to all participants in that category.
Gee, that was easy!
 
Hmmm...thanks John, I forgot the SEs were the best ever. The next issue is supposed to cover the 32mms and the 50mms. We will see what happens.
 
John Traynor said:
Why all the fuss?
The Nikon SE 8X32 is the best bin in the world and all others are second rate. I'll bet the Porter's, as usual, ignored the SE 8X altogether, choosing instead to focus their attention on second tier bins. It's understandable they would be kind to all participants in that category.
Gee, that was easy!

I don't care how good the optics are if I can't use them in the rain then they lose a lot of their use. Ok maybe in a dry climate but in Britain in Autumn???

I can see it now I couldn't id that potential Mega because my wonderful optics got fogged!!

The Porters? They'll be writing for Birdwatching soon!!
 
Greetings!

Everything I read from the Porters continues to decrease my opinion of them as binocular reviewers. In fact, I can confidently say at this point that they are not reviewers at all, but corporate mouthpieces who try to sell as many binoculars (from their own website, of course!) as possible. I have yet to see an objective evaluation from them that has the end-user's best interests at heart, they seem to be too afraid that they might lose a sale or "upset a manufacturer" to say anything bad about any of the binoculars they review.

Just my 0.02...

Best wishes,
Bawko
 
stephen ingraham BVD and birders digest

stephen ingraham of BVD (www.betterviewdesired.com) has been reviweing bins and scopes for years he seems to really know what he's looking through. last year zeiss hired him to become a major consultant. he never really liked zeiss. he seems to be honest and not promoting one co. over the other.

i agree that birders digest bins review really sucked. and those alpen bins also suck.

hey were here for the birds.
 
Bill Atwood said:
Heard about the upcoming article here on BF. Mag arrived in the mail today. Got excited, couldn't wait to see the tester's opinions.

The article is by the (never seen a bad bin) Porters. Need I say more? No, but I can't help myself. How about:

dreck
drivel
sterile
politically correct
vacuous
wimpy
wussified

Basically its a puff piece for all of their advertisers. I could go on, but you get the idea. There's very little of this candy-coated BS at BF. Guess that's why I spend too much time here.

I've been looking to scale back on my mags, this may be the tipping point on BWD. Maybe I'll look at Alula or one of the UK mags.
Too funny, Bill! LOL!!!
 
iambirding said:
stephen ingraham of BVD (www.betterviewdesired.com) has been reviweing bins and scopes for years he seems to really know what he's looking through. last year zeiss hired him to become a major consultant. he never really liked zeiss. he seems to be honest and not promoting one co. over the other.

i agree that birders digest bins review really sucked. and those alpen bins also suck.

hey were here for the birds.


He's promoting Zeiss.
 
iambirding said:
stephen ingraham of BVD (www.betterviewdesired.com) has been reviweing bins and scopes for years he seems to really know what he's looking through. last year zeiss hired him to become a major consultant. he never really liked zeiss. he seems to be honest and not promoting one co. over the other.

i agree that birders digest bins review really sucked. and those alpen bins also suck.

hey were here for the birds.

Graeme,

Even when he was not affiliated with Zeiss, his reveiws were rather subjective. His recommendation of Nikon 8x32 SE failed to mention blackouts. His complaint that the Zeiss Victory smelled of automobile tyres, did not have the right feel and originally had poor brackets were not consistent with others' perceptions. I and another forum member liked the Victory for its light weight, its contrast and its brilliance. The point is that once a reveiwer strays from objective, and preferably quantifiable aspects of a binocular we move into the realm of opinion.
Often numbers do not tell the whole story which is why we have to try the glass ourselves. One binouclar's thumb indentations seem to me, and one other forum member, useless decoration, but they work for others.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:
 
Perhaps an email to Bill Thomson at BWD would be a good idea. Crappy articles like the review one, which I have also read, aren't doing his magazine any kind of good service.
 
Better Reviews Desired?

Thanks to all of the BirdForum posters who commented on our recent full-sized binocular round-up. WARNING: we're publishing a follow-up on mid-sized binocs in our Jan/Feb 2005 issue.

I understand the frustration with the seemingly glowing content of our round-ups and feel a bit of a reply from "inside the editor's head" is justified in this case, especially since I think Bill A. may have just indirectly questioned my integrity.

We have a letter to the editor in our Jan/Feb 05 issue challenging us on the lack of negativity in the field tests. I'll augment my reply to that letter and share it here.

It's true that we don't devote a lot of space to negative comments in our binocular round-ups. I think there's a misinterpretation of the goal of our optics field tests. They are round-ups, not critical reviews. We are testing optics and sharing information. Not doing critical reviews and picking one winner—that's a road to madness, not to mention an impossible task.

However, I object to the assertion that we're producing puff pieces.

Choosing a binocular is a highly personal matter. Everyone has different preferences for their "perfect" binocular. There are so many makes and models out there on the market these days, that solid, unbiased information is difficult to find. I might think that the ABCD binoc is the best ever because it's the one that I like. You might think it's awful. That's why we always have at least 10 field testers and we tally their scores and comments into one big compilation article.

We test a huge, broad array of binoculars—far more than any one reader could have access to. We publish information on all tested models and highlight only those that perform exceptionally well in the eyes of our independent field testers. There is no input from BWD staff, editors, advertising department, or the optics companies, or optics retailers.

We don't try to push our field tests as "Consumer Reports"-style critical testing. Rather we publish them as information-heavy round-ups designed to help bird watchers and our readers make informed decisions when purchasing optics.

If you look/read carefully, we do not cater to our advertisers, some of whom do well in the tests and some of whom do not. Nor do we always choose the binocs from the leading optics companies—the usual suspects. The results come into our editors and we publish them, without making any changes to the results.

If a binocular does not perform well, it is not highlighted as a top-performer. If it is absolutely useless for birding, we do not include it in the testing. If it just performs adequately, it is listed in the chart. We accept no input from the optics companies. They loan us models for testing and provide us with all the pertinent specs.

An interesting side note: At least four major optics manufacturers have told me that they have altered their products based upon information included in our past optics round-ups. Eye-relief, rubber armoring, focus-wheel tension, and weight are all areas where we've made specific critical comments (either pro or con) in the past that resulted in product improvements. I'm proud that our information is making such an impact.

Given the editorial space and the unlimited time and resources required to fight challenges (both written and legal) to a Consumer Reports-style series of critical reviews, we'd happily go for it.

In reality, our job is to deliver useful and interesting information to our readers and we're striving always to do just that.

In the meantime, I welcome all comments on our content—negative or positive. I'd also be happy to entertain proposals for future optics articles and field tests, if anyone feels strongly enough about this to put in the time and effort.

Sincerely,

Bill Thompson, III
Editor
Bird Watcher's Digest
 
BT3: You should have read the recent dust-up in this forum over the new Zeiss FL series. You might wonder if people were even looking through the same product, so divergent were some of the opinions. BTW, my local B&N no longer carries BWD, and I think there's something wrong with your on-line subscription system. I assume at this point that I'll never actually see the binocular test in question. I've seen the report on the Porters' website, which I assume is basically similar.
 
LOL! I thought of Lake Wobegon too!

Also that Monty Python scene where the kids all sing "Every bin is sacred, every bin is good!
 
These are my comments to Bill Thompson’s post. I have cut and pasted it rather heavily in an attempt to address only the issues I feel important.


BT3 said:
I understand the frustration with the seemingly glowing content of our round-ups and feel a bit of a reply from "inside the editor's head" is justified in this case, especially since I think Bill A. may have just indirectly questioned my integrity.

I assume you are referring to my statement of “Basically it’s a puff piece for all of their advertisers.” I was mistaken, only 6 of the 8 optics advertisers in this issue made it into your “Binoculars of Note”. I couldn’t find any direct advertising for 6 of the BON manufacturers in this issue, but I’m fairly certain that most of these have previously advertised in BWD. Advertiser Canon is not mentioned at all so maybe they didn’t send a pair. Of course there is the upcoming issue to make amends in if they did.

Ok I’ll drop the sarcasm. I don’t really believe BWD is guilty at all of any intentional bias in the article. HOWEVER, when most of today’s birding optics manufacturers advertise in your magazine; and you “field test” a plethora of bins, including those from almost all of your advertisers; and the result is only positive, with no apparent faults, ranking or judgement, the end result, as far as I’m concerned, is a PUFF PIECE.

Another HOWEVER...when you publish articles such as this, I can easily see where some can acquire the opinion that you are stroking current advertisers and attempting to curry favor with potential ones. I’ll reiterate that I don’t believe you have actually done so. Even if you did I don’t care, its your mag, you can’t do what you want. Just don’t expect me to renew.


BT3 said:
It's true that we don't devote a lot of space to negative comments in our binocular round-ups. I think there's a misinterpretation of the goal of our optics field tests. They are round-ups, not critical reviews.

The issue cover refers to “Hands-On Field Test: Best New Birding Binocs”. The article heading is “BWD Field Test - Full Size Binoculars”. I’m 43. When I went to school and was tested, I received grades and rankings. I guess these days with social promotions everyone passes so no one feels bad.

Only the Table of Contents refers to a “roundup”, which I totally agree is a more apt description. I don’t really see how most people would equate “field tests” with “roundups”.


BT3 said:
There are so many makes and models out there on the market these days, that solid, unbiased information is difficult to find. That's why we always have at least 10 field testers and we tally their scores and comments into one big compilation article.

Actually, since most of the solid, unbiased info in your article is specs and marketing info, is EXCEEDINGLY EASY to find. Most of it can be found at Eagle Optics website. The rest of it here at BF. (Even if a very small minority of the posters might be biased.) Plenty of other seller/manufacturer websites to find it at also.

I saw no tester scores at all, and can probably count their comments on the fingers of one hand. In fact, I don’t see where the testers were necessary at all to write 99% of the article. I could of done it in my underwear sitting in front of my computer. If I were one of the testers I would be upset that my time and effort was so wasted.


BT3 said:
Choosing a binocular is a highly personal matter. Everyone has different preferences for their "perfect" binocular.

We test a huge, broad array of binoculars—far more than any one reader could have access to. We publish information on all tested models and highlight only those that perform exceptionally well in the eyes of our independent field testers. There is no input from BWD staff, editors, advertising department, or the optics companies, or optics retailers.

We don't try to push our field tests as "Consumer Reports"-style critical testing. Rather we publish them as information-heavy round-ups designed to help bird watchers and our readers make informed decisions when purchasing optics.

Actually, prior to this article, BWD did publish reviews/tests/roundups that were critical. Maybe no heavy negative comments, but at least the equipment was ranked in various categories. I found these articles useful. Maybe I wouldn’t agree with all the findings, but even then I usually would learn something. Maybe there is a difference in individual bins of the same model, maybe there was a characteristic I ignored. Most people realize that there is no one winner that satisfies everyone.


BT3 said:
If a binocular does not perform well, it is not highlighted as a top-performer. If it is absolutely useless for birding, we do not include it in the testing. If it just performs adequately, it is listed in the chart.

Your article was so spineless that it didn’t even make this clear. There is no mention whatsoever of what made the “Binoculars of Note” noteworthy.


BT3 said:
Given the editorial space and the unlimited time and resources required to fight challenges (both written and legal) to a Consumer Reports-style series of critical reviews, we'd happily go for it.

I don’t expect CR reports, but I fail to see why BWD can’t do some reviews where its determined that some aspects of some bins are better than the same aspects of others. You have done it in the past, as has ABA and the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.


BT3 said:
In reality, our job is to deliver useful and interesting information to our readers and we're striving always to do just that.

I agree totally.
 
Bill,


LOL! I thought of Lake Wobegon too!

Also that Monty Python scene where the kids all sing "Every bin is sacred, every bin is good!


Does this mean that there isn't any such thing as a "bad" binocular? Do we need a whole new "binocularly-correct" vocabulary? How about:

Chromatic Aberrations = "Colored" binoculars
Poor overall image = "Optically Challenged" binoculars
Heavy, cumbersome = "Plus Sized" binoculars
Made in China = binoculars with "Asian Ethnicity"
Completely retarded, lame binoculars = "Special" binoculars
Truly excellent, high quality binoculars = "Privileged" binoculars

Since there are no bad binoculars, it seems like we need to come up with new terms for the "special" ones! ;)

Best wishes,
Bawko
 
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