• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Saltmarsh Clubflower? (1 Viewer)

AnneE

Well-known member
I'm not too knowledgeable about flower IDs and this flower has had me frustrated for many months. Out of all my flower books, there is only one photo that somewhat resembles the flower in my attached photo and it is identified as Saltmarsh Clubfoot. However, I have also seen it under another name, Saltmarsh Bird's-beak (cordylanthus maritimus), on a website. The name doesn't seem to fit, though, seeing as I found my flower up in the mountains (foothills of the Canadian Rockies) and not by the sea. I think I'm right in saying that it is of the Figwort family and, in fact, for a long time thought it could be some species of Indian Paintbrush. I would so much appreciate any help with this puzzling ID. Many thanks!

14022P7290038_1.jpg
 
Last edited:
figwort sounds good

http://raysweb.net/wildflower/pages/31.html

AnneE said:
I'm not too knowledgeable about flower IDs and this flower has had me frustrated for many months. Out of all my flower books, there is only one photo that somewhat resembles the flower in my attached photo and it is identified as Saltmarsh Clubfoot. However, I have also seen it under another name, Saltmarsh Bird's-beak (cordylanthus maritimus), on a website. The name doesn't seem to fit, though, seeing as I found my flower up in the mountains (foothills of the Canadian Rockies) and not by the sea. I think I'm right in saying that it is of the Figwort family and, in fact, for a long time thought it could be some species of Indian Paintbrush. I would so much appreciate any help with this puzzling ID. Many thanks!

14022P7290038_1.jpg
 
Hi, Curt, thanks for the feedback about this being in the Figwort family. I'm still hoping to be able to identify it further. Maybe I'll take my photo to the local gardening centre and see if they can give me an ID.
 
This is not a typical flower and is caused by an external agent (probably microscopic Eelworms or Mites) and is a deformed flower. I have seen this in several unrelated groups of plants (especially members of the Geraniaceae) which seem very prone to it.
The corolla of the flower is completely deformed and the stamens have been partly transformed into petals.
It could be a genetic condition but one of the above agents are more likely to be the cause.
I am unfamiliar with your local flora and cannot unfortunately identify the species concerned though I do think that it looks a good candiate for Scrophularaceae (Figwort family).
 
Steve,

Thank you so much for all your interesting information! Maybe that is why no one has been able to identify it for me. I thought that the colours, shading and shape of this purple flower were very attractive and it never occurred to me at all that it was a result of being deformed. There were other plants nearby and the flowers were yellow with a touch of pink/purple, like the flower on the left of my photo. Would the outside influences cause the deep purple colour as well as the actual deformity? I'm wondering if it is Stiff Yellow Paintbrush, after being affected by the external agents you mentioned. I'm fairly certain it belongs to the Figwort family and it definitely resembles various species of Paintbrush. Now I can't wait to drive back to the area, fairly near a river in the Canadian Rockies to see what I can find this summer. I'll certainly be looking at things with a different eye now that you have opened it to a lot more than I was seeing before. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my query!
 
steve_nova said:
This is not a typical flower

Steve -

I see what you mean -- you are saying the complex stuff in the middle is multiple stamens formed into petals, as in a garden double rose. However, I think they are actually small normal or near-normal flowers, and what appear at first sight to be the larger petals are actually bracts.

Looking at the further of the two flowering spikes, we have rounded purple petal-like objects in a pine-cone arrangement. These are the bracts -- you can see them becoming a little more leaf-like lower down (for non-botanists, a bract is a leaf with a flower in its axil, sometimes leaf-like, but often scale-like or petal-like -- think for example of the scarlet "petals" of the Poinsettia house-plant, Euphorbia pulcherrima).

Above each bract is a flower, with the petals fused into a tube, teeth at the lip representing the petal tips. It is not very clear in the picture, but I think the sepals are also fused into a tube with long pointed teeth (look particularly at the left-hand flower of the further spike, where the lower part of the flower tube can be seen to be green and hairy).

The nearer spike is slightly out of focus, but the flowers clearly show stamens (and perhaps styles) protruding from the petal tubes.

The nearer spike is growing from a leaf (or bract) axil of the further one, and so it must be younger and at a slightly earlier stage. You can see some gone-over flowers between the lower bracts of the further one. I think that on the older spike the stamens and stigmas have shrivelled away, and stronger colour has developed at the same time.

As I don't know the species I can't comment on whether the flowers are abortive or deformed. I suspect not though, as many plants with strongly coloured bracts do have very small and inconspicuous flowers (as in Poinsettia).

Most of the Scrophulariaceae have strongly bilaterally symmetrical (zygomorphic) flowers, which this doesn't. However, it could be that this is a species (or aberrant individual) with rather rudimentary flowers, and such flowers do tend to look more radially symmetrical (actinomorphic -- star-shaped). The rest of the plant seems to match that family, though it would also be consistent with many other families.

I agree that bird's-beak, Cordylanthus, does look superficially similar (and it is a Scroph), but my guess is it's not similar enough -- this plant does not have the "birds-beak" pointy flower shape.

It's also quite like mint family (Labiatae or Lamiaceae), but these usually (always?) have opposite leaves which this does not seem to have, so I think it's not one of those either.

Indian paintbrushes, Castilleja, fit in some ways. They are Scrophs and they have colourful bracts with smallish less-conspicuous flowers -- see for example http://www.larkspurbooks.com/Scroph1.html. Apparently there are very many species. Not sure though -- the pictures I can find seem to have larger, more complex bracts.

After that I'm lost...

Richard
 
Last edited:
Further photos to help or hinder

Hi, Steve and Richard,

Thank you both for such interesting and detailed information! I thought I would upload a few more photos that might either help or confuse even further! Yes, indeed, as far as Paintbrush go, there are many, many species! The first photo is a distant view of my original close-up. Second photo shows the whole of a nearby plant. Third photo is a close-up of another near-by plant but I'm not sure that this is the same species (might have been single flower per stem). Last photo is one species of red Paintbrush. I'm sure you can see all sorts of details to compare that are way beyond my own knowledge - I'm a photographer first!
 

Attachments

  • P7290038 b.jpg
    P7290038 b.jpg
    99.6 KB · Views: 183
  • P7290037 b.jpg
    P7290037 b.jpg
    79.8 KB · Views: 163
  • P7290039 b.jpg
    P7290039 b.jpg
    89 KB · Views: 194
  • P8120028 b.jpg
    P8120028 b.jpg
    96.3 KB · Views: 156
Anne -

Some useful further information there.

The flower structure is clearer in your red paintbrush picture than in others I've found. It has red bracts leaf-like in shape, then red tubular flowers with five petal-teeth. It also has large conical green things sticking out of some flowers -- these are growing seed pods.

Apart from the colour and the seed pods all this agrees closely with your original plant. However, looking at the third of your new pictures, what do we have but conical green seed pods growing out of some of the flowers..? So now the colour is the only obvious difference -- a feature which will vary a lot between species.

Given that there are lots of Castilleja species and that your plant agrees with them on all visible botanical features, my guess is that your first idea was right -- a paintbrush of some kind, or a close relative of them.

Having said that, remember I'm a European botanist who knows nothing at all about North American botany...

I'm now itching to get over there to see the flowers for myself (just need someone to look after the cattle for a month or so...)

Regards,

Richard
 
Hi Richard and Anne,

Well I'll be blowed! Now that I see a more representative set of shots of the species, I can see that the bracts surrounding the flower are quite normal. I quite agree with Richard on all points.

Thanks Anne for bringing a new genus to me:t:
 
Hi, Richard and Steve,

Thanks so much for your further feedback! I still haven't had a chance to contact the person at the Calgary Horticultiral Society but hope to do so soon. I have printed out all your information to give him once he has had a chance to make his own identification. Once the mountain road to the cobble flats is open after winter closure, I will search for the same plants and see what they are doing this year. Your information has made me look forward to trying to get closer pictures. The Paintbrush family has so many brilliantly coloured species and the bright red ones always add such a welcome bright splash of colour to mountain scenery. Too bad about the cattle, Richard! The New Forest - I haven't been back to the UK in 27 years! Steve, I'm glad you have now discovered this new genus. Thanks again, both of you!
 
Warning! This thread is more than 19 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top