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What is this? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
steve_nova
Well-known member
Red-Legged Partridge prey. Looks like a Saker but range is a bit too far east of RLP. It can't be a juvenile Peregrine as the legs are yellow as all adult Falcons seem to be.
Could be a pet Saker or a stray?
Could be a pet Saker or a stray?
Still waiting for an answer!! juv peregrine is the only taker so far.
I ask because I want to get rid of it, looks a bit disconcerting sat on your office table!!! and it needs a name. it is stuffed very old and came from the Museam at Tring I think.
The pic was taken without its glass case.
I ask because I want to get rid of it, looks a bit disconcerting sat on your office table!!! and it needs a name. it is stuffed very old and came from the Museam at Tring I think.
The pic was taken without its glass case.
Reader
Well-known member
Steve
Juv Peregrine normally have grey legs so do Saker and Lanner juv's. Whatever the bird is it certainly seems much larger than the RLP. Possibly bigger than the Peregrine and the birds that possibly fall into that catergory are Gyr, Saker and Lanner. If I had to go for one I would have to agree with Steve. The fact that it is stuffed could mean that the bird was caught away from our shores but stuffed with a bird that is within our range.
My guess is a not very confident Saker.
Juv Peregrine normally have grey legs so do Saker and Lanner juv's. Whatever the bird is it certainly seems much larger than the RLP. Possibly bigger than the Peregrine and the birds that possibly fall into that catergory are Gyr, Saker and Lanner. If I had to go for one I would have to agree with Steve. The fact that it is stuffed could mean that the bird was caught away from our shores but stuffed with a bird that is within our range.
My guess is a not very confident Saker.
MikeMules
Well-known member
I've got no idea on European falcons, so I'm not going to make a guess.
Just a word of caution about trying to ID museum specimens from the colour of their bare parts. Reds and yellows are the quickest to fade (usually to brown or grey), and the only reliable way to tell colour of bare parts (legs, beak, facial skin) is if someone noted them down soon after death.
Depending on how much sunlight the mount has been exposed to, the reds of the plumage may have faded, and general colour washed out. If it is more than 5-10 years old, you can generally only use plumage patterns/contrasts and body proportions with any great certainty.
Hope this helps.
Just a word of caution about trying to ID museum specimens from the colour of their bare parts. Reds and yellows are the quickest to fade (usually to brown or grey), and the only reliable way to tell colour of bare parts (legs, beak, facial skin) is if someone noted them down soon after death.
Depending on how much sunlight the mount has been exposed to, the reds of the plumage may have faded, and general colour washed out. If it is more than 5-10 years old, you can generally only use plumage patterns/contrasts and body proportions with any great certainty.
Hope this helps.
Szabo Jozsef
Well-known member
Lanner for me too, but can you tell us more about this picture, for taking into account the angle of the picture it seems that the person who took the picture was very close to the bird!
Yep its defintly a Perigine Falcon Lovely birds
MikeMules
Well-known member
Okay, I'm playing the game called "use a field guide to ID birds I've never seen, and probably never will". (I'm an absolute sucker for making a fool of myself like this).
I'm using the Collin's Field Guide throughout. Using the RLP as a basis, I estimate the length of the falcon to be 35-40cm, and wingspan of about 90cm.
According to the Collins, my choices are Eleonora's, Peregrine, Barbary, and small Lanner.
Assuming a juvenile based on overall plumage. All soft parts yellow (Steve - are those original colours, or has someone touched up the mount with paint?), which would rule out juv. Peregrine and Barbary Falcons, except Collins mentions yellowish-green legs and cere, which the mount may[\I] have.
The wings look fairly broad compared to the body, making Eleonora's less likely.
Moustachial stripe appears very narrow. This fits well with Barbary and Lanner, but not with Peregrine or Eleonora's.
Breast, flanks and belly are solidly streaked, with a buff wash to flanks and belly. The trousers appear to be lighter streaked (possibly with a little barring??). The throat and upper breast have no apparent streaking.
This fits well with Barbary Falcon, as both Barbary and the mount have unstreaked upper breast and lightly streaked trousers, with a buff wash to belly and flanks. Peregrine, Eleonora's and Lanner fit less well, as they have (apparently) more uniform streaking across underparts.
The light brown wash on the crown and nape fits with Peregrine and Barbary best.
So, on balance of probabilities, I'd say it's a juv. Barbary Falcon. However, it may also be a juv. Peregrine (and if Barbary is conspecific, this post is a moot point!)
So, what's the real answer? In my mind, it mostly hinges on the colour of the soft parts. If the photo is true, then Barbary. If they are retouched and should be greyer/greener, then either Barbary or Peregrine.
Then again, I may have made a complete fool of myself. Oh well.
I'm using the Collin's Field Guide throughout. Using the RLP as a basis, I estimate the length of the falcon to be 35-40cm, and wingspan of about 90cm.
According to the Collins, my choices are Eleonora's, Peregrine, Barbary, and small Lanner.
Assuming a juvenile based on overall plumage. All soft parts yellow (Steve - are those original colours, or has someone touched up the mount with paint?), which would rule out juv. Peregrine and Barbary Falcons, except Collins mentions yellowish-green legs and cere, which the mount may[\I] have.
The wings look fairly broad compared to the body, making Eleonora's less likely.
Moustachial stripe appears very narrow. This fits well with Barbary and Lanner, but not with Peregrine or Eleonora's.
Breast, flanks and belly are solidly streaked, with a buff wash to flanks and belly. The trousers appear to be lighter streaked (possibly with a little barring??). The throat and upper breast have no apparent streaking.
This fits well with Barbary Falcon, as both Barbary and the mount have unstreaked upper breast and lightly streaked trousers, with a buff wash to belly and flanks. Peregrine, Eleonora's and Lanner fit less well, as they have (apparently) more uniform streaking across underparts.
The light brown wash on the crown and nape fits with Peregrine and Barbary best.
So, on balance of probabilities, I'd say it's a juv. Barbary Falcon. However, it may also be a juv. Peregrine (and if Barbary is conspecific, this post is a moot point!)
So, what's the real answer? In my mind, it mostly hinges on the colour of the soft parts. If the photo is true, then Barbary. If they are retouched and should be greyer/greener, then either Barbary or Peregrine.
Then again, I may have made a complete fool of myself. Oh well.
bookeraptor
New member
The falcon in the photo is most likely a saker. It is definitely not a peregrine or any peregrine subspecies. I have photos of sakers trapped in the middle east in the 50's, and they are one of the most variable, in terms of plumage characteristics, of any of the falcons, much like gyrfalcons, which they are closely related to. It would be my guess this is an escaped falconer's bird.
Michael Frankis
conehead
Don't place any reliance on the yellow legs at all!
They are painted on stuffed birds, as skin colours don't preserve naturally. And the person who painted them could easily have done it the colour he thought they were supposed to be in life, not the colour they actually were.
One good example I've seen - a stuffed Greenland Whitefront Goose (has an orange bill when alive), but the bill was painted bright pink (correct colour for European Whitefront Goose, the only race the painter would have been familiar with)
Michael
They are painted on stuffed birds, as skin colours don't preserve naturally. And the person who painted them could easily have done it the colour he thought they were supposed to be in life, not the colour they actually were.
One good example I've seen - a stuffed Greenland Whitefront Goose (has an orange bill when alive), but the bill was painted bright pink (correct colour for European Whitefront Goose, the only race the painter would have been familiar with)
Michael
Richard Ford
BF Member
I think it would have trouble escaping from anywhere since it is deceased. 3
I see this is your first post bookeraptor so i would like to welcome you to birdforum on behalf of the moderators and Admin.
Why not introduce yourself formally in the “say hello” forum, you obviously have an interest and a good knowledge of birds so I am sure you will fit right in. :t:
Welcome
Richard Ford (moderator)
I see this is your first post bookeraptor so i would like to welcome you to birdforum on behalf of the moderators and Admin.
Why not introduce yourself formally in the “say hello” forum, you obviously have an interest and a good knowledge of birds so I am sure you will fit right in. :t:
Welcome
Richard Ford (moderator)
bookeraptor
New member
It should be mentioned that falcons will develop yellow legs a few months, if not sooner, after fledging and while still in juvenile plumage, so it is not a reliable indicator of a first year bird.
steve_nova
Well-known member
Let's just say that's it's a Painted Saker, a brand new species! If it had been made clear from the beginning (see my first post at the top of this page) that this was a stuffed bird, I wouldn't have bothered guessing for many of the above reasons.
Alastair Rae
London birder
Before reading the other replies, I immediately thought Saker. Big, brown, white head. I really ought to keep some field guides at work (where I read BF)
