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This should turn your stomach0 (1 Viewer)

I've just sent a complaint to Ebay. Let me tell you they don't make it easy to file a complaint.
 
crickieheather said:
At least they're old. We know he didn't kill then recently. Things like this used to be illegal.
Yeah, and if the dates he provides are correct it would have been before the migratory act which doesn't cover his country anyway. I was under the impression though that after last years nest sales Ebay banned all animal and animal parts contraband.
 
They are still illeagal in the US, Canada and Mexico. Unfortunately these birds are from Brazil, the birds are in Great Britain, and as long as they are not brought to the US, it will probably be impossible to get legal action. Last year though, EBAY caught a lot of flack from both their customers and the USFWS over people selling bird nests on the site. If I am not mistaken, all birds and all bird parts / materials are now not permitted on EBAY. I think KC has the right idea.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
What a shame.I was at the Roger Tory Peterson Inst. a few weeks ago and they had their hummingbird mounts collection out for display.Very old but still in fairly good shape.
Sam
 
humminbird said:
They are still illeagal in the US, Canada and Mexico. Unfortunately these birds are from Brazil, the birds are in Great Britain, and as long as they are not brought to the US, it will probably be impossible to get legal action. Last year though, EBAY caught a lot of flack from both their customers and the USFWS over people selling bird nests on the site. If I am not mistaken, all birds and all bird parts / materials are now not permitted on EBAY. I think KC has the right idea.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
Aha, I thought the "Bastrop, Tx" was familiar in my email. :)
 
As Mark mentioned, last year a bunch of concerned Netizens, myself included, monitored the auctions for items in violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and reported them to eBay and the Fish & Wildlife Service. The number of illegal auctions we were finding and reporting helped us to convince eBay to revise its poorly-worded policy statement to ban virtually all sales of stuffed wild birds, in whole or in part, and their nests, eggs, etc. The revised policy reads thusly:

------------------------------------------
Stuffed Birds

With a few specific exceptions (see below), mounted ("stuffed") specimens of any wild birds, parts of any wild bird, or the nests or eggs of any wild bird may not be listed on eBay. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act prohibits the sale or barter, in whole or in part, of virtually all bird species native to the United States, including (but not limited to) hawks, eagles, owls, shorebirds, seabirds, wading birds, songbirds, hummingbirds, and legally hunted migratory game birds such as ducks, geese, and cranes. Native American items containing feathers or other parts of protected species are not exempt from the provisions of the Act and may not be listed on eBay. For complete lists of species, see the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service's list of birds protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

Exceptions

* Mounted specimens of captive-bred, properly marked Mallard ducks may be sold if the seller clearly states in the item description that the specimen was captive bred. No other captive-bred native waterfowl species may be sold without permits obtained from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. Sale or barter of legally hunted wild waterfowl and migratory game birds, including (but not limited to) ducks, geese, snipe, woodcock, cranes, and doves, is prohibited by federal law.

* Mounted specimens or parts of legally hunted upland game birds, which include quail, turkey, pheasant, and grouse, may generally be listed on eBay if not listed or sold in violation of the state wildlife laws of the states of the buyer or seller.

* Mounted specimens, feathers, and eggs of captive-bred, non-endangered non-native birds such as ostriches, emus, exotic pheasants, Mandarin ducks, guinea fowl, peafowl, and most parrots may be listed on eBay if not listed or sold in violation of state or local laws applicable to the buyer or seller.
------------------------------------------

So, though these specimens are not in violation of the MBTA, they are in violation of eBay policies. With several complaints having been registered already, the auction should be cancelled shortly.
 
I wish they had a blanket "no birds" policy altogether, and good on ya, Sheri, for getting their policy language strengthened to at least protect North American species.

But I do have a question or two. it would seem that, unless there's some legal responsibility on the part of eBay by being a US company, I don't see where there's a lot that can be done about this particular auction. Both seller and, potentially, a non-North American buyer, could argue that they are not subject to the MBTA. And unless the species being offered were proven to be North American migratory species, it seems like that first paragraph of their policy leaves a lot of legal wiggle room. I mean, if the birds aren't listed by CITES and the seller and buyer are both outside the US, Canada or Mexico, how can eBay be held accountable?

I'm not asking these questions to be argumentative; I'd really love to know the legal take on this. If anybody knows?
 
There is a requirement though for the importer to have a permit to import any wildlife to the US. If the buyer is off shore you are probably right, but if it is a US buyer...... While all bids are in foreign currency, that does not mean that the buyer is necessarily off shore.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
Thanks for the " attagrrl," Kathy. I was gratified that eBay adopted my suggested rewording of its policy virtually verbatim, but there were many people involved in the effort. I have to give major props to Stacy Jon Peterson, who was a major motivator, updating us on new auctions and mobilizing the "posse" to report illegal auctions to eBay and USFWS, and Bill Hilton, Jr., who helped get publicity for the issue. As luck would have it, eBay's chief counsel is a former federal prosecutor who's dealt with a few MBTA cases in his career; he understood our concerns and has been our contact when specific cases needed special attention (for example, the seller who, after being informed that selling his taxidermied ducks was illegal, changed the item statement to say that he was only selling the driftwood they were attached to - but the ducks came with it as a "free gift"!).

I think it's the first sentence of the new policy that's most important. Irrespective of domestic or international legalites, eBay's policies (now) clearly prohibit wild bird items with only the specifically stated exceptions. The second sentence about the MBTA is there primarily to explain the rationale for the almost blanket ban, but it applies equally to eBay members worldwide. Even auctions that conform to eBay's current bird policies - a stuffed chicken, for example - might run "a-fowl" of other laws if they involve international transactions, but I'm happy to let someone else deal with that.
 
Thanks for the further elaboration, Sheri. Wow, great job all of you for filing complaints, and especially KC for bringing this to our attention! :t:
 
Yes, indeed - thanks, KC. eBay doesn't seem to have particularly good safeguards against auctions that violate the law or its own policies, so it takes folks who know and care about these issues to browse the auctions and report cases like this.
 
Well, it looks like they are really ignoring their policy! A look at the site tonight produced:
item 7152127960 - zebra finch eggs - yes they are a caged bird but eggs are not on their list of excepted items
7150876464 - a box of more than 40 NATIVE SONGBIRDS
4377283330 - this one they might be able to get away with - a nest full of quail eggs
7153105837 - a nest in Alberta Canada.

I intend to make some complaints but it is almost like they need another talk with that former prosecutor Sheri!

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
I think the Zebra Finch eggs fall under the exception for "captive-bred, non-endangered non-native birds," but I notified the sellers of the other three and reported these auctions to eBay. If they're not gone by tomorrow, I'll pull some strings.
 
Apparently EBAY considers the quail eggs to fall in this group too. The taxidermied birds and the nest were pulled though.

Tonights list, all taxidermied birds, all offered from offshore locations:
item 7153290536, 7153197852, 7153195975, 7153196581

All have been reported to Ebay.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
If those are quail eggs they're not from North America. I don't think they're quail eggs at all, but I don't have an egg reference in my library. Can someone who's got the Baicich field guide please look them up (independently - I doubt the eggs and the nest go together)?

I got a message back from the seller if this item saying that he was having trouble canceling this auction. eBay customer support staff told him to leave it up until they said otherwise - I complained about this through the Live Help link on the home page as was told the auction would be pulled (which it obviously hasn't been).
 
Well, I checked it this morning and was still able to get to the item and there is nothing indicating that it has been cancelled.

Three of the four items I listed last night have SOLD. These people on EBAY are doing no policing of their policy at all - in which case it might as well not exist. This morning, there is another item (I have no idea when it was posted since I learned of it from another listsere). 7153241187 is a box of taxidermied birds and includes a hummingbird.

Mark
Bastrop, TX
 
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