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Imperial and Spanish Imperial Eagle (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dblack
- Start date
Katy Penland
Well-known member
Hi, Dave! I see this is your first post, so a warm welcome to you from all of us on staff here at BirdForum!
Afraid I can't help with your query, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can. You might also want to post this question in the "Bird ID & Taxonomy Q&A" forum, where you're more likely to get it answered than here in the "Say Hello" area. :t:
Afraid I can't help with your query, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can. You might also want to post this question in the "Bird ID & Taxonomy Q&A" forum, where you're more likely to get it answered than here in the "Say Hello" area. :t:
Mark Bruce
Super Moderator
Hi Dave,a warm welcome to you and good to have you with us.
Steve G
RAINBIRDER
Hi Dave & welcome to Birdforum,dblack said:
SIE & Imperial Eagle were once a single species(many still regard them as such) spread out over mediterranean woodland/ maquis & it is difficult to know exactly when the populations split (though the Eagle on Roman standards is thought to be the Imperial Eagle). The Pyrenees & habitat fragmentation have now effectively led to separate populations with (eastern) Imperial Eagle now occupying a slightly different habitat from (western) SIE. Imperial Eagle effectively competes with a number of other Aquila sp in its range including Golden, the Spotted Eagles & possibly Steppe Eagle whilst SIE shares its range only with Golden -this may also have subtle influences on their divergence. SIE seems to have adapted ( ? still adapting) to the open dehesa woodland of Iberia & I gather its biometrics differ from Imperial with SIE being slightly heavier & longer but with an (on -average) smaller wingspan (which favours woodland hunting).
The adult Imperial Eagles have small but significant plumage differences whilst immatures are also distinguishable. Assuming the SIE & dehesa woodland (mainly Holm & Cork Oak forest) survive then the differences between SIE & Imperial will become much more consistent & fixed with time & it is very unlikely that the two populations will ever have the chance to interact in the forseeable future.
I have little experience of Imperial Eagle but a well-marked adult SIE is a stunning & impressive bird to behold -lets hope their numbers continue to pick up (recently bred again in Morocco & the odd juvie is now seen in northern Spain).
Last edited:
barcelonanick
Active member
Ancient origin of Spanish Imperial eagle
The two species split much longer ago and this has nothing to do with human-induced habitat fragmentation but rather are a result of the last Ice Ages. The same is the case with the Iberian/Eurasian Lynxes and the two species of Azure-winged magpie. Here's a piece I wrote last year:
Origin of Iberian Lynx and Spanish Imperial Eagle -July 2004
Contrary to established opinion, the incredibly endangered Iberian Lynx and the Spanish Imperial Eagle did not originate in Iberia's Mediterranean forests.
A new study by Juan Negro and Miguel Ferrer working with the Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (CSIC) and published in Conservation Biology shows that the ancestors of both species came originally from far to the East in the steppes of Asia Minor, and did not arrive in the Peninsula until one million years ago. The researchers compared the mitochondrial DNA of the Eurasian lynx and the European Imperial Eagle with the Iberian species, and found that both separated around one million years ago at the start of the Quaternary, when a series of intense ice ages swept across Eurasia. As the weather grew colder both south western populations were pushed into the Mediterranean in search of ground squirrels until they finally reached Iberia.
With the cold, prey must have become scarce from Greece to Italy and the imperial eagle and the lynx died out. The populations which reached Iberia were saved by the presence of that most Spanish of mammals: the rabbit, at the time, endemic and virtually restricted to the Peninsula. The oldest existing fossil of a rabbit is a specimen from 2.5 million years ago found in Granada. In fact, the rabbit did not really expand from Iberia until the Phoenicians, who named the territory Hispania or ‘Land of Rabbits', began to export it around the Mediterranean. The eagle and the lynx were trapped. The nearest ground squirrel lay 4,000 kilometres away in Hungary. As the researchers put it, “The rabbit saved them from extinction and became the basis of their diet, making them prisoners of the Peninsula.”.
However, the report is extremely gloomy about the prospects for recovery of both species, seeing them in light of the findings as inherently fragile species. Extinction will always hover over them as a real threat. Whatever the case, it once again underlines that the only chance they have is to increase the wild rabbit population, decimated by disease and to preserve the Iberian Peninsula scrublands and open woods that they both depend on. After 20 years and millions of euros spent on boosting their populations, there are only around 150 lynx left, though the 300 breeding pairs of Imperial eagle appear to be in expansion
More here
http://www.iberianature.com
and on the Azure-winged magpie
http://www.iberianature.com/material/spain_birds/azure_winged_magpie_spain.html
Cheers Nick
The two species split much longer ago and this has nothing to do with human-induced habitat fragmentation but rather are a result of the last Ice Ages. The same is the case with the Iberian/Eurasian Lynxes and the two species of Azure-winged magpie. Here's a piece I wrote last year:
Origin of Iberian Lynx and Spanish Imperial Eagle -July 2004
Contrary to established opinion, the incredibly endangered Iberian Lynx and the Spanish Imperial Eagle did not originate in Iberia's Mediterranean forests.
A new study by Juan Negro and Miguel Ferrer working with the Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (CSIC) and published in Conservation Biology shows that the ancestors of both species came originally from far to the East in the steppes of Asia Minor, and did not arrive in the Peninsula until one million years ago. The researchers compared the mitochondrial DNA of the Eurasian lynx and the European Imperial Eagle with the Iberian species, and found that both separated around one million years ago at the start of the Quaternary, when a series of intense ice ages swept across Eurasia. As the weather grew colder both south western populations were pushed into the Mediterranean in search of ground squirrels until they finally reached Iberia.
With the cold, prey must have become scarce from Greece to Italy and the imperial eagle and the lynx died out. The populations which reached Iberia were saved by the presence of that most Spanish of mammals: the rabbit, at the time, endemic and virtually restricted to the Peninsula. The oldest existing fossil of a rabbit is a specimen from 2.5 million years ago found in Granada. In fact, the rabbit did not really expand from Iberia until the Phoenicians, who named the territory Hispania or ‘Land of Rabbits', began to export it around the Mediterranean. The eagle and the lynx were trapped. The nearest ground squirrel lay 4,000 kilometres away in Hungary. As the researchers put it, “The rabbit saved them from extinction and became the basis of their diet, making them prisoners of the Peninsula.”.
However, the report is extremely gloomy about the prospects for recovery of both species, seeing them in light of the findings as inherently fragile species. Extinction will always hover over them as a real threat. Whatever the case, it once again underlines that the only chance they have is to increase the wild rabbit population, decimated by disease and to preserve the Iberian Peninsula scrublands and open woods that they both depend on. After 20 years and millions of euros spent on boosting their populations, there are only around 150 lynx left, though the 300 breeding pairs of Imperial eagle appear to be in expansion
More here
http://www.iberianature.com
and on the Azure-winged magpie
http://www.iberianature.com/material/spain_birds/azure_winged_magpie_spain.html
Cheers Nick
jurek
Well-known member
I hope for the best of conservation of Iberian eagles and lynxes.
However, despite DNA differences both forms could be the same species.
Spanish and Eastern lynxes and imperial eagles have different DNA because of they come from two different refuges. However, very many European plants and animals have similar history, and not all are different species.
In historic times ranges of both lynxes met in Pyrenees area, and it is not impossible that ranges of both imperial eagles also met somewhere, eg. in Italy. In my knowledge nobody knows if they interbred and produced mixed population which become extinct because of man's actions, or they lived separately as different species.
However, despite DNA differences both forms could be the same species.
Spanish and Eastern lynxes and imperial eagles have different DNA because of they come from two different refuges. However, very many European plants and animals have similar history, and not all are different species.
In historic times ranges of both lynxes met in Pyrenees area, and it is not impossible that ranges of both imperial eagles also met somewhere, eg. in Italy. In my knowledge nobody knows if they interbred and produced mixed population which become extinct because of man's actions, or they lived separately as different species.
barcelonanick
Active member
Yes. Fair and interesting point as far the Imperial eagles are concerned.
jurek said:
