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Birsound Editing (1 Viewer)

tony_p

Member
Hi,

Having now got to grips with my downloading from MiniDisc to PC, it's time I started analysing/editing my recordings. I find two problems with my MD recordings which are excessive mic handling noise and when having recorded in windy conditions. I realise these are common problems but what can be done to enhance the original recording in Audacity. Which settings if any can be fiddled with.

Also, when downloading original cassette tape recordings to my PC, what options are available for editing in this case, again by using Audacity. However, before which I will download to MiniDisc from the cassette, should I have the Dolby Setting on or off? I would imagine tape hiss would come as a slight problem in these situations.

Anybody got any ideas.

TIA

Tony

Tony
 
tony_p said:
Hi,

Having now got to grips with my downloading from MiniDisc to PC, it's time I started analysing/editing my recordings. I find two problems with my MD recordings which are excessive mic handling noise and when having recorded in windy conditions. I realise these are common problems but what can be done to enhance the original recording in Audacity. Which settings if any can be fiddled with.

Both of these really need to be addressed at the recording stage - signal quality once lost can never be regained. However, you can try high-pass filtering at 300Hz or up. Use your judgement on what your wanted signal is - with some tits you can push the high-pass filtering up to 1kHz and not lose wanted signal, but takes out most of that LF rubbish. You can't filter that high if you are recording tawny owls.

Handling noise you address by suspenidng your mic in a cross of elastic. You can DIY this from a piece of 4" drainpipe and some rubber bands - look at this for inspiration. Putting your mic on a tripod, using a outrigger on your scope tripod perhaps of course nuts handling noise at source, and a good second best is using a monopod, with pipe lagging round the top if it doesn't have a foam handle.

Wind protection is achieved by having a layer of still air around the mic. It is harder to DIY, though if your mic is small enough a mesh peanut feeder with the mic suspended in the centre by rubber bands and not touching the sides, and the whole rig covered with gardening fleece can work well as a combined shockmount/wind protection. After that you're in the realm of Rycote windgags (light breeze only) or Softies http://www.soundkit.co.uk/acatalog/Softies.html and Reinhardt Whisper http://www.reinhardt-film.com/whisper.php. Both these also address handling noise.

You do monitor your recordings in the field? wind and handling noise are things you really need to try and head off at the recording stage.

However, before which I will download to MiniDisc from the cassette, should I have the Dolby Setting on or off? I would imagine tape hiss would come as a slight problem in these situations.

Dolby should be set to the same setting as you used when making the recording. You don't need to record your cassettes to MD before transferring to the computer - connect to the line-in of the osund card and record with audacity (setting all other inputs on the record mixer to mute), this would save you half the time. But there's nothing wrong in recording to MD first if you have the time and are happy with the workflow.
 
ermine scritto:Both of these really need to be addressed at the recording stage

I know, too late so no excuses.

ermine scritto:However, you can try high-pass filtering

Ok then, tell me more and how in real layman's talk, how can I achieve this in Audacity. Also why is it done to certain levels i.e. up to 1kHz and not above (excuse me for being thick!) My usual recording scenarios would be woodland dawn choruses and the odd recvording in suburbia. Are there a range of frequencies for certain situations for example.

You do monitor your recordings in the field? wind and handling noise are things you really need to try and head off at the recording stage.

All I can say is Whoops.

Dolby should be set to the same setting as you used when making the recording.

Not sure whether the Sony portable TCM-919 and TCM-939 actually record in Dolby yet alone whether they record in Stereo.

Thanks again.

Tony
 
tony_p said:
I know, too late so no excuses.

Heck, we've all been there, done that ;) It's going through the pain of trying to recover that makes us not do it again...
tony_p said:
ermine scritto:However, you can try high-pass filtering

Ok then, tell me more and how in real layman's talk, how can I achieve this in Audacity. Also why is it done to certain levels i.e. up to 1kHz and not above (excuse me for being thick!) My usual recording scenarios would be woodland dawn choruses and the odd recvording in suburbia. Are there a range of frequencies for certain situations for example.

Birds are small beasts and generally the smaller the bird the higher pitched the sound - think crows compared to tits. They're not capable of generating low frequencies because they're not big enough.

Handling noise is largely low frequency - you can't rattle the mic faster than 100 times a second even if you wanted to. So is wind noise. You have a useful situation here - the rubbish is low frequency and the signal you want is high frequency. So if you turn down the low frequencies relative to the high frequencies you get less of what you don't want and more of what you do.

I don't have Audacity on this PC but you should look in Effects-> equalization for something that looks like tone controls/graphic equalizer or Effects ->FFT which should give you a more accurate though more complex method of achieving this. You can get a feel for what would happen by tinkering with the tone controls/graphic eq on your sound card playback or amp if you have them. With tone controls turn the bass way down and see what happens.

Set controls below 1kHz to minimum, set the one a 1k to about halfway down and the others to flat and see what gives.

I chose 1kHz which is about okay for most woodland birds. The range of frequencies you want ot start cutting will vary between about 300Hz and 3500Hz. At 1kHz Your crows and woodpigeons will sound a tad thin. Fortunately you have the required test equipment already - it's either side of your head :) listen to the before and after. Got crows? you probably need to keep frequencies down to 800Hz. Got owls? you may need to go down to 300. Just goldcrests? start at 2k and feel your way up. I recorded these waxwings in an industrial estate next to the electricity substation and with a major truck route nearby. I hit this with a 3.5kHz high pass filter to lose most of that clag. If you get into sonograms you can often see at what frequencies the bird's song starts.

You don't get something for nothing - the ambient noise is also filtered and therefore you get the unnatural phasey character to the sound that recording has if you push this too hard. But I will know what waxwings sound like again.


tony_p said:
Not sure whether the Sony portable TCM-919 and TCM-939 actually record in Dolby yet alone whether they record in Stereo.

Nope. Sony says so So leave Dolby OFF. You will hear more hiss than with. And if you listen more carefully you will hear if you switch dolby on you will lose high frequencies, and more in quieter parts. If you want that effect do it in Audacity by lowering the top end above 6kHz (carefully, and listen before and after). Ideally you shouldn't do that, but hey it's your recording so it should be however you like it. Your HiMD recordings will probably be a lot better than your cassette recordings, paticularly if you are using manual recording as recommended for nature recording.
 
Birdsound Editing

I don't have Audacity on this PC but you should look in Effects-> equalization for something that looks like tone controls/graphic equalizer or Effects ->FFT which should give you a more accurate though more complex method of achieving this.

[I]Great, I've got an equilization setting on Audacity so can have a fiddle. Do you know if Lachlustre is still about in this forum as I believe it was him that knows Audacity inside out.[/I]

You can get a feel for what would happen by tinkering with the tone controls/graphic eq on your sound card playback or amp if you have them. With tone controls turn the bass way down and see what happens.
Set controls below 1kHz to minimum, set the one a 1k to about halfway down and the others to flat and see what gives.

You make that sound easy, don't forget I'm a thicko. Would this be achieved by adjusting via the speaker icon on the taskbar thingybob.

I chose 1kHz which is about okay for most woodland birds. The range of frequencies you want ot start cutting will vary between about 300Hz and 3500Hz. At 1kHz Your crows and woodpigeons will sound a tad thin.

Is there not a general frequency that would be a good base for say springtime dawn in suburbia and another set frequency for say, winter woodland scene.

Do you know if there anything online which shows the frequency at which our U.K. birds and call for example, now that would be useful!
Fortunately you have the required test equipment already - it's either side of your head :) listen to the before and after. Got crows? you probably need to keep frequencies down to 800Hz. Got owls? you may need to go down to 300. Just goldcrests? start at 2k and feel your way up. I recorded these waxwings in an industrial estate next to the electricity substation and with a major truck route nearby. I hit this with a 3.5kHz high pass filter to lose most of that clag. If you get into sonograms you can often see at what frequencies the bird's song starts.

Your Waxwing recording is top drawer and I was lucky enough to record them last year (was it last year?) among a housing estate near a busy road as well. Cracking birds and a trilling flock of 80-100 individuals was very pleasing to say the least! Sonograms and understanding them is just around the corner once I'm allowed to open the Xmas present of The Soound Approach to Birding that I recently ordered.

You don't get something for nothing - the ambient noise is also filtered and therefore you get the unnatural phasey character to the sound that recording has if you push this too hard. But I will know what waxwings sound like again.




Nope. Sony says so So leave Dolby OFF. You will hear more hiss than with. And if you listen more carefully you will hear if you switch dolby on you will lose high frequencies, and more in quieter parts. If you want that effect do it in Audacity by lowering the top end above 6kHz (carefully, and listen before and after). Ideally you shouldn't do that, but hey it's your recording so it should be however you like it. Your HiMD recordings will probably be a lot better than your cassette recordings, paticularly if you are using manual recording as recommended for nature recording.[/QUOTE]

Right, so am I correct in saying that when I copy to MiniDisc (the method I've chosen), incidentally my stereo is a MD Hi-Fi Unit The original taped recordings should have DolbyNR off when first downloaded, after which is the Audacity bit.

Sorry it's getting late and my brain is struggling, so excuse me.

Thanks

Tony
 
tony_p said:
[I]Great, I've got an equilization setting on Audacity so can have a fiddle. Do you know if Lachlustre is still about in this forum as I believe it was him that knows Audacity inside out.[/I]

I think he is still about, take a look at his profile for recent posts. FWIW I fired up my copy of Audacity at work and you can forget the equalization setting, it is for a specific purpose not applicable here. There is a high pass filter mode, and a FFT mode. See attached screenshots. These effects on Audacity do seem quite poor in flexibility and operation, but may show you some of what you might do.

You make that sound easy, don't forget I'm a thicko. Would this be achieved by adjusting via the speaker icon on the taskbar thingybob.

It is on mine, under mixer advanced. But that varies with your soundcard and OS.


Is there not a general frequency that would be a good base for say springtime dawn in suburbia and another set frequency for say, winter woodland scene.

Do you know if there anything online which shows the frequency at which our U.K. birds and call for example, now that would be useful!

Your ears will tell you this. You don't need charts and numbers - trust your hearing, feel the force... You can always keep the originals as well, as you tend to get a bit more refined in mixing/equalising the recordings with experience.


Your Waxwing recording is top drawer and I was lucky enough to record them last year (was it last year?) among a housing estate near a busy road as well. Cracking birds and a trilling flock of 80-100 individuals was very pleasing to say the least! Sonograms and understanding them is just around the corner once I'm allowed to open the Xmas present of The Soound Approach to Birding that I recently ordered.

The Sound Approach will give you most of the frequency information you desire. But you don't need that - listen... The waxwing recording isn't all that good. It is serviceable, and fine for sonograms, but on listening it sounds quite unnatural because the high ambient noise has been filtered heavily - I selected that to show there are limits to what filtering can do. Waxwings have a bad habit of turning up in noisy urban environments - or maybe it is simply there are more sightings because there are more people to report them!

Right, so am I correct in saying that when I copy to MiniDisc (the method I've chosen), incidentally my stereo is a MD Hi-Fi Unit The original taped recordings should have DolbyNR off when first downloaded, after which is the Audacity bit.

Yep, that's right. KO that Dolby - it should be OFF.
 

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Hi,

Thanks for all the information, I'll have a good peruse of the various editing options you suggested as soon as I get a good few hours free to do so.

One thing I have wondered though is what, if anything can be in Audacity to reduce the noises of say constant distant traffic or aircraft noise in the background, would this be the high-pass filtering malarkey? Of course, as time has gone on and I've bought better equipment since the first attempts at birdsound recording, I tend not to record in situations such as above if I can help it.

Regards

Tony
 
tony_p said:
Hi,
One thing I have wondered though is what, if anything can be in Audacity to reduce the noises of say constant distant traffic or aircraft noise in the background, would this be the high-pass filtering malarkey?

Because low frequencies carry better than high frequencies, most extraneous rubbish is low frequency noise, fo high-pass filtering will help. Sadly aircraft noise is all-pervasive and broadband so filtering doesn't really help, it just makes it sound unnatural.

This continuous low level racket is the price we pay for wanting short-haul flights for £20. I personally am of the opinion that no flight to anywhere should be cheaper tha £200 return, and low cost airlines should be taxed to oblivion to reduce the demand back to what it was in the 1990s, and no flights should be permitted between the hours of 11pm and 7am so people can get some sleep. I have the feeling this view is not shared by the rest of the British population :(
 
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