Lancs Eagle Owls (1 Viewer)

[Apodemus]

This is my first time in any forum so I hope I'm doing this correctly. Here's my situation if anyone can help. My family owns about 500 acres in South Carolina and I'm interested in constructing some owl nest on our property. I've found instructions for building and installing houses but I don't want to mess up and put up too many houses or put them too close together. I've read that many owls are very territorial so I want to avoid conflicts. Any help or suggested research reading would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ann

Hello Ann and welcome to Birdforum. You got most of the process right, but you would be much better off starting a new thread - your request is most likely to get buried in this one. If you click on "forums", and choose "Garden birds, feeding and nestboxes", then click on "New Thread" you will have a much better chance of the right people reading and replying to your question. Good luck!!

Mike

 

[rob stoff]

Not proven at all Rob! Spoke with Tom Gullick at length on this subject and his opinion was that it just wasn't true - he reckoned he'd seen 2 possible hybrids in the past 25yrs....the old argument there still stands that why shoot them here, if they do migrate to Spain then shoot them there!

perhaps he isn't looking hard enough, the evidence is unequivocal that hybrids are occurring in significant numbers, even before 1995 39 hybrids had been controlled in Spain, see

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/scientific/ruddy/1.htm.

shoot them here to deal with the problem at source of course

Rob

 

[Nightranger]

Not proven at all Rob! Spoke with Tom Gullick at length on this subject and his opinion was that it just wasn't true - he reckoned he'd seen 2 possible hybrids in the past 25yrs....the old argument there still stands that why shoot them here, if they do migrate to Spain then shoot them there!

...and Greater Manchester bird Recorder Judith Smith claims that ruddies don't reach Spain from the UK. Except this is only true if you insert the word 'directly' because the ruddies in western Europe have spread from the UK. It makes little difference if they fly directly or in stages from the Low Countries and France.

Similarly, a single person claiming they have only seen two hybrids in 25 years is a bit of a blind. Firstly, the Spanish are at least trying to eliminate ruddies and hybrids when they are found even if it is probably at a low enough level to be inefficient at the moment. Secondly, it all depends on whether Tom Gullick has been able to visit every possible site where hybridisation could occur. I am not casting aspersions at Tom Gullick but it does worry me that the entire ruddy debate has been littered with personal rhetoric along with downright deceipt and this has led to a lot of claims gaining a life of their own to the point where they are believed as fact.

The bottomline is that introduced (as opposed to naturally expanding) non-natives are a bad idea. It makes no difference whether there are benign examples because as with ruddies, the problems can occur many years down the line. The UK is lucky insomuch as it is not completely independent of mainland Europe (from a bird ecology perspective). This means that the ecology is fairly robust when compared with other island communities (look at New Zealand) but there are limits and it is by no means certain that ruddies are benign here in the UK. There are concerns that ruddies could tip two grebes out of the north despite that they are in contact with the same species in North America. Why is it different here? Simple, the UK is a good deal more limited in space than North America and ruddies just happen to be good at breeding. As the debate on EOs has shown, it is not that EOs could spread here so much as that they could be here artificially and may compete adversely with species that are already established. When that species happens to be the (literally) under fire hen harrier and escaped or released EOs have no choice but to stay within the islands, it does not take much imagination to see what the consequences could be.

 

[DavidST]

Just to get back to Eagle Owls,
Have there been any sightings in 2008 at all?
Be lucky
David

 

[Boom]

yes, rumours abound that something happened to one of the adult birds but apparently the remaining adult paired up and have been successful again, although they nested further into the valley this year on private land but they did have at least one chick. We saw a bird much earlier on in the year- at last years nest site- more than likely a youngster, hard to tell as it was sheltering under rocks from the rain.

 

[MGJohn]

I wonder how many hen harriers have been killed by humans over the same time? I would have thought that it would be more productive to use resources to tackle that issue - which is the reason why there are few hen harriers left in England.

That is a very astute observation.....

When some butterfly species considered endangered were put on a protected list and made law by some Government Agency, another Agency handed grants, finance and other incentives to landowners to plough or fell sites containing those protected species to oblivion....... now land has been 'set aside' far too late.....

... and until we have a definitive and secure outcome to this genuine wild or escape EO issue ~ something that is almost certainly impossible ~ no one should take matters further. They could be doing exactly the wrong thing whatever decision is taken. Something far to many folks excel at in recent years ~ getting it wrong.

Funny old game the human race....

 

[MGJohn]

its not a question of likelihood but one of evidence. Speculation deals with the grey areas, the facts are black and white, there is no evidence whatsoever that Eagle Owls have been a native British species since the last glaciation and no strong indications that genuine vagrants have occurred.

Rob

Lack of evidence is not proof positive.... Vagrant or previous Native species can occur without trace ....

Funny old game .... I am old enough to remember media reports that there is no scientific evidence that smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer.

There are numerous examples where 'lack of evidence' only illustrates being unable to locate it. Balance of probability is not proof positive. Even so, it still may exist only folks simply are not competent, inclined or sufficiently equipped to find it..

Experience has taught me to keep an open mind. I have no idea whatsoever as to the true status of Bubo bubo in the British Isles. Could be all the birds present have resulted from escapees or there again, a mixture of both casual vagrants and escapees .... as yet, nobody knows so I for one, will keep an open mind irrespective of what those better placed than I consider the correct thing to do. Whatever course of action is taken, it could be the wrong one!

Some of the various Bird Books I've acquired over the years since I got my first natural history books back in the early 1950s, certainly describe and illustrate this Owl in their British Birds .... I have disposed of various books in recent years via ebay and elsewhere as many had not been opened for decades even. They've gone all over the world now ~ that's nice as I know from the feedback received that those books are greatly appreciated.

 

[Peewit]

Yes, they are fearsome creatures in their own right. I was always under the impression the Eagle Owls are not British at all.

There was a program on BBC 2 Animals 24/7 2.15-3pm today about one Eagle Owl called 'Ollie', and he is considered a pet that has escaped.

What I want to know is how people could consider Eagle Owls as pets. They are big burley birds, and not to be reckoned with so I am mystified why a bird called Ollie is seen as a pet of any description at all.

I suppose it take all types to make the world

Kathy
x

 

[DavidST]

yes, rumours abound that something happened to one of the adult birds but apparently the remaining adult paired up and have been successful again, although they nested further into the valley this year on private land but they did have at least one chick. We saw a bird much earlier on in the year- at last years nest site- more than likely a youngster, hard to tell as it was sheltering under rocks from the rain.

Any sightings of previous years youngsters anywhere at all ?
Thanks for your time and trouble replying
Be lucky
David

 

[Nightranger]

Any sightings of previous years youngsters anywhere at all ?
Thanks for your time and trouble replying
Be lucky
David

In many ways, this could be the single most important question to ask about eagle owls. The Yorkshire pair were estimated to have produced at least 15 young before the female was shot a few years ago. Of the fifteen, one bird was recovered after being electrocuted in Shropshire and there were rumours of another of the youngsters in roughly the same area. If I recall correctly (without going away to check) eagle owls mature after about four to five years so there should be examples of newly paired birds (these would be indistinguishable from wild birds unless they had been ringed). However, I don't know of any examples other than paired birds where one or both birds had been identified as escapees or ex-captives to put it more accurately. I suspect the explanation is simply that few of the youngsters are surviving for any length of time although I cannot understand why this should be.

 

[Boom]

I havent seen any since January but i havent been there much lately whereas in Winter i was there regularly, apparently access is restricted to where they are this year this would obviously make it hard, did speak to someone who had seen them though and they
confirmed that they had at least one chick. The likelihood is that the adults new mate is from one of the other pairs apparently.. which presumably would indicate that they`ve been in the area a lot longer than first thought.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Funny old game .... I am old enough to remember media reports that there is no scientific evidence that smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer.

yeah, funny old game. I remember a lot of media reports about scientific evidence of MMR vaccine causing autism....

All depends on the quality of the evidence. Possibility vs probability, based on known good evidence. BOU have looked at this in enormous depth, and consider them non-native. That's good enough for me, but apparently not the X-File fans. I know of no good evidence that Eagle Owls are native. Not proof positive, no, but pretty strongly suggestive considering all the other long-gone species that we can confirm.

Nightranger - you need to qualify the 'female was shot' bit. It had been shot at sometime in its life, but this was not considered to be the cause of death. It was over a decade old, after all, so may have been shot at miles away and years before. It's misleading to infer that it was shot and killed at catterick.

Another of the Catterick chicks has turned up dead in (I think) Borders.

The rumour mill suggests that there are up to 40 pairs in Britain, gawd help us.

 

[666taz]

I talked with the mod people who looked after these birds ringing the young and watching them for years and was told it was shot and i can tell you it wasnt at cattrick so get your facts right i can also tell you that the male has also been shot earlier this year so you wont have to worry about Eagle Owl in north Yorks no more hope you happy.

 

[KnockerNorton]

I talked with the mod people who looked after these birds ringing the young and watching them for years and was told it was shot and i can tell you it wasnt at cattrick so get your facts right i can also tell you that the male has also been shot earlier this year so you wont have to worry about Eagle Owl in north Yorks no more hope you happy.

oops, quite right, wrong thread, I'd overlooked this wasn't the N Yorks birds.

however, no matter what the MoD say re the N Yorks female, I know the geezer who did the post-mortem. It was spun out of all recognition by the police WLO, and his press statement was disowned by the lad who actually looked at the bird and dug the pellets out. His conclusion was 'cause of death unknown, but probably NOT due to the long-embedded pellets'. Hope that clears up any confusion.

 

[Gary Jenkins]

FACTThe eagle owls have been seen in the last week.The young have left,and the adults are now in the usual place.

 

[DavidST]

Gary,
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Can anyone confirm if any of the youngsters have been ringed at all?
Thanks in anticipation,
Be lucky
David

 

[Boom]

Thanks Gary-do i take it that they`ve moved on from the private land then? any idea how many young they ended up with?

cheers.

 

[Himalaya]

usual place meaning where they nested last year?

FACTThe eagle owls have been seen in the last week.The young have left,and the adults are now in the usual place.

 

[Gary Jenkins]

David,Boom and Himalaya.
The 2 youngsters were rung by 2 locals.Yes, the adult owls are back in the place they were seen by the masses last year.The young have moved on apparently.
Hope that helps.

 

[Boom]

Cheers Gary, much appreciated-might well have a jaunt up there next week.

thanks again.