Omani Owl (1 Viewer)

[HH75]

where do our (british) little owls come from?

James

Dutch stock, from memory? So still Little Owls as defined by this book.

 

[Ian Lewis]

"Field Owl" would presumably not occur in North America?
(North American birds are nominate flammeus, and have mtDNA perfectly identical to that of Eurasian birds. The main phylogeographic break within this species is somewhere between Holarctic [including Hawaii] and Argentina; data from further N in Latin America are lacking.)[/QUOTE]

Whoops, what I should have written is North America for 'Wilson's Owl' their split from Long-eared Owl. Sorry about that. I have seen 'Field Owl' in South America.

Everything you say about 'Field Owl' Laurent is reiterated/confirmed in the book, including 'On vocal grounds there is evidence for a northern group with rising rrrAh soliciting calls and a Caribbean/South American group with very different sounding tomcat-like soliciting calls' and 'by contrast the even more isolated sandwichensis, known in Hawaii as as the Pueo, has a flammeus like soliciting call and presumably evolved from a northern form'.

Sandfordi vocalisations are given as an example of the southern group, no comment is made on the realtionships of the different subspecies within that group. Field Owl as a name comes from the translation of 'lechuza campestre' and 'buho campestre'

As I said earlier I haven't time at the moment to go through the book in fine detail but I'm looking forewards to doing so in due course.

Ian

 

[l_raty]

Dutch stock, from memory?

Lever 2005. (Mainly Dutch birds indeed.)

What about N Africa?

 

[l_raty]

Field Owl as a name comes from the translation of 'lechuza campestre' and 'buho campestre'

As I said earlier I haven't time at the moment to go through the book in fine detail but I'm looking forewards to doing so in due course.

Thanks for having nevertheless taken the time to answer then, Ian.

Of course "Field Owl" is also a direct "translation" of "Velduil", which is the Dutch name of flammeus--this makes its proposal for South American birds by a partly Dutch group a bit unexpected...

 

[Richard Klim]

Little Owl

Little Owl Athene vidalii
Cucumiau A noctua

Somewhat surprisingly, it seems that the only places that I've seen 'Cucumiau/Italian Owl' Athene noctua (ie excluding A vidalii and A glaux) are Qinghai ('impasta') and Jilin (plumipes, but split suggested by Wink et al 2009 and Mikkola 2012 – 'Northern Little Owl').

It's strange that A glaux sensu Dutch Birding (ie incl glaux, 'saharae', lilith, indigena) hasn't been treated, given that A glaux and A g indigena have been recorded by The Sound Approach according to the website.

 

[jurek]

Well said, although perhaps not a popular view following the route of scientific rigour:t:

In this case, most Little Owls seen in C or S Europe are undetermined species and un-twitchable, because nobody knows where the border goes.

 

[l_raty]

It's strange that A glaux sensu Dutch Birding (ie incl glaux, 'saharae', lilith, indigena) hasn't been treated, given that A glaux and A g indigena have been recorded by The Sound Approach according to the website.

Based on Ian's description of the range of Cucumiau, indigena, lilith, glaux, etc. are inside.

As I understand it, they are not proposing a new split, but redefining the original one. The DB split of "A. glaux" was presumably based on publications that included "nominate noctua" samples from Central Europe (in agreement with Vaurie's 1960 [pdf] arrangement; see, eg., Wink in van Nieuwenhuyse et al. 2008 [pdf]): these ended up in the NW European group, hence "A. noctua" was retained for NW European birds. These samples would now be vidalii (which is what BWP already did of these populations), and the name "A. noctua" is used for the SE group. For genetic data, see also Pellegrino et al. 2014 [pdf]. The type locality of Strix noctua Scopoli 1769 is (the forests around) Labacum in Carniolia, nowadays Ljubljana in Slovenia.

Genetically, plumipes seems indeed quite distinct from both.

Jurek: you are presumably supposed to determine the species you meet based on how it sounds...? (Not simply based on where you stand.)

 

[njlarsen]

In this case, most Little Owls seen in C or S Europe are undetermined species and un-twitchable, because nobody knows where the border goes.

I understood the previous post (some way back) to say that the border roughly followed the French - Italian border to the Mediterranean? If that was true, then the Iberian birds would go with Northern European I would think. If not true, then we would just have to sit back and wait for some more info.

As others, I wonder where the northern African birds fall.

Niels

 

[lewis20126]

In this case, most Little Owls seen in C or S Europe are undetermined species and un-twitchable, because nobody knows where the border goes.

Well if there is a true zone of sympatry or (more likely?) parapatry, it may be similar to the Eastern / Western Screech Owl situation in the US and so there will be lot's of fun trying to map the interface / overlap...

cheers, alan

 

[HH75]

Well if there is a true zone of sympatry or (more likely?) parapatry, it may be similar to the Eastern / Western Screech Owl situation in the US and so there will be lot's of fun trying to map the interface / overlap...

cheers, alan

If there is a hybrid zone, I wonder what hybrids sound like, or how wide the zone of overlap may be...?

 

[Richard Klim]

Little Owl

I understood the previous post (some way back) to say that the border roughly followed the French - Italian border to the Mediterranean? If that was true, then the Iberian birds would go with Northern European I would think. If not true, then we would just have to sit back and wait for some more info.

As others, I wonder where the northern African birds fall.

Iberian birds are certainly vidalii – the type locality is Murcia (ref Peters 1940).

As Laurent has suggested, N African birds are presumably now re-lumped in Athene noctua, contra Dutch Birding.

PS. It's nice to know that I've seen A noctua in the WP after all (indigena, lilith and glaux).

 

[njlarsen]

Thanks Richard,
if all this ends up being accepted, those birds seen in Tunesia many years ago should give me an armchair tick as different from those in Denmark and Iberia :t:

Niels

 

[Ian Lewis]

Iberian birds are certainly vidalii – the type locality is Murcia (ref Peters 1940).

As Laurent has suggested, N African birds are presumably now re-lumped in Athene noctua, contra Dutch Birding.

Yes, all 'Little Owls' apart from those in NW Europe are the Cucumiau but Magnus draws attention to diferences in the Sardinian birds and suggests that study of the vocalisations of birds outside the WP could show further differences.

Ian

 

[Richard Klim]

Omani Owl: UAE

Just for completeness. (I overlooked that the press link in the updated HBW Alive species account was only accessible to subscribers, although now also reported in Ornithological News.)

There is confirmation coming soon that the owl found in Oman has just been discovered in the high mountains/ wadis on the east coast of the UAE. Watch this space.....

The National UAE, 15 Mar 2015: Who's there? Scientists in UAE hear call from rare Omani owl.

BBC News, 17 Mar 2015: UAE: Rare owl surprises researchers.

del Hoyo, Collar & Kirwan 2015. Omani Owl (Strix omanensis). [updated 18 Mar 2015]

I see for, Omani Owl "reportedly extreme E United Arab Emirates"
I confirm this, as I went to the place which is not yet open to the public. Heard it last Friday evening (almost missed my plane to Europe because of that ...). It will be a nice spot to twitch it, when open.

Just to explain the HBW Alive account of “omanensis”. ‘Reportedly’ is used with reference to the UAE record because as yet it is not documented anywhere (unsurprisingly), neither a publication nor even a publicly available sound recording (only the inevitable internet chitchat), and is NOT to impugn Jacky Judas’s high-quality discovery. Given that the update to the Alive account is, of unfortunate necessity, based on a text on the BBC website... Needless to say, we look forward to the UAE finding being published fully and properly in due course, and the HBW Alive account being updated in response.

 

[mb1848]

Can someone tell me what Kleinschmidt meant by Parallele zu Falco peregrinus brookei in the OD for sarda?
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/55157#page/315/mode/1up .

 

[BIG]

Hi, thought I would explain the patchy availability of "Undiscovered Owls". We received a couple of hundred copies in time for the launch at the Dutch Birding Day. Enough for us to sell there and send to reviewers. Of the hundred and twenty birders at the day more than eighty individuals bought books. I'm sure dutch readers will appreciate that with the famous reputation for "look look but don't buy" we were very surprised. The next batch of books arrive from the printer in early April. You must excuse me for not knowing who is who but we do include bloggers in our distribution of review copies. If you feel you may qualify for a review copy please contact Matt at The Sound Approach office ([email protected]). Thank you very much for all your informed comments. I hope you all find Undiscovered Owls worthy of your interest. As an aside one of the next subects' we are planning to explore is the sounds made by known hybrids. From Spotted Eagles to Capercaillie crosses.

 

[l_raty]

Can someone tell me what Kleinschmidt meant by Parallele zu Falco peregrinus brookei in the OD for sarda?

Presumably that a tighter pattern with more dark/less pale in plumage occurs in both, in comparison to continental birds. brookei Sharpe 1873 was originally also described from Sardinia.

 

[Richard Klim]

Undiscovered owls

Due April 2015...
soundapproach.co.uk/product/undiscovered-owls/

Reviewed (in Dutch) by Vincent van der Spek: Undiscovered Owls.

 

[Marcus Lawson]

If you feel you may qualify for a review copy please contact Matt at The Sound Approach office ([email protected]). Thank you very much for all your informed comments. I hope you all find Undiscovered Owls worthy of your interest.

I think there may be a typo in BIG's post and the email address should read [email protected]

 

[Nutcracker]

Yes, if you drawn a line roughly from the French /Italian border to Moscow then eveything NW of that line is Little Owl and everything else is Cucumiau.

For the western part of this line, the Alps make a good barrier, the Carpathians perhaps too, but toward the northeast, there's nothing to form an obvious barrier.

Would this red line be about right? Base range map from wikipedia, so may well be inaccurate in other aspects

Why "Cucumiau"? Onomatopoeic?